Does anyone know what VVS means?

[gr8leo87]

May be the industry should market diamonds to the boyfriend for a happy girlfriend.

Out with the engagement ring and in with the "commitment ring".

The idea actually has merit from a marketing standpoint. There was/is such a tradition called the "promise ring". Maybe we need to circle back to that concept and build on it for a new era.

That or just doing away with the commitment idea entirely and associate diamonds with symbols other than love and commitment. May be symbols of status, good luck, integrity, hard work and so forth.

There needs to be marketing to create value other than for the purpose of engagement, investment, etc. Considering the spending patterns of today's generation, one can infer there's impulse to buy what's 'hip' today. Diamonds have to be hip again. How? That's much more difficult to answer.

 

[Sunstorm]

Great thread and I absolutely love the idea of the commitment ring. In today`s society it may be the way to go. Commitment also includes engagement but it could be either, it does not have to be engagement.

Today as it has been said here before we see less and less emphasis place on lasting values, values have become obsolete. People are looking for instant gratification and immediate pleasures.

Of course I too love travelling and have to admit that I really enjoy nice shoes, clothes, bags, etc. but as opposed to my friends, and of course I am slightly prejudiced working in the field, I now buy much less designer items and put money into diamonds and jewelry. Many times I have been disappointed because of expensive items falling apart, again there is no emphasis place on workmanship in creating something that will last. I still enjoy some of my more expensive clothing, etc. but I find that sometimes a dress that costs me 20 bucks will look as elegant as one that would cost 2000 and it may last just as long, in the meantime I can spend the rest of my money on something that will last and something that can usually be liquidated if necessary.

More ideas would be needed as to how to entice the Millennials to value lasting values. The commitment ring idea is one of the best so far and could be used very successfully in marketing. I also agree that unmarried women are an important market segment that has been much unexploited.

 

[pyramid]

How about a parent ring which the child now adult buys to commemorate their parent. Never heard of promise rings in the UK. Heard of gimmel ring, dearest ring, regards ring. With all the craftsmanship around now on the internet could have more design your own ring programmes which take into account helping the layman with ideas which are sound eg can,t have sloping diamond. Maybe ring to commemorate your pet, awful lot of dog lovers on Facebook.

 

[pyramid]

I have also heard of posie rings. Some UK jewellers now sell what they call partnership rings like wedding bands. Also consider friendship rings which were sometimes buckle fashioned ring bands.

Wonder if the already mentioned commitment rings would just take the place of the wedding ring instead of engagement ring size diamond.

 

[gr8leo87]

Also men need to be targeted as well for diamond rings. A lot of jewellery with expensive gems is worn in parts of the world other than US, UK, AUS, especially in Japan, China, India, the Middle East.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

How about a parent ring which the child now adult buys to commemorate their parent. Never heard of promise rings in the UK. Heard of gimmel ring, dearest ring, regards ring. With all the craftsmanship around now on the internet could have more design your own ring programmes which take into account helping the layman with ideas which are sound eg can,t have sloping diamond. Maybe ring to commemorate your pet, awful lot of dog lovers on Facebook.

I've got visions of dog collars for the loving owners studded with diamonds with the dog's name in rubies, emeralds or sapphires. Or whatever the birthstone of the dog is.

 

[gr8leo87]

How about a parent ring which the child now adult buys to commemorate their parent. Never heard of promise rings in the UK. Heard of gimmel ring, dearest ring, regards ring. With all the craftsmanship around now on the internet could have more design your own ring programmes which take into account helping the layman with ideas which are sound eg can,t have sloping diamond. Maybe ring to commemorate your pet, awful lot of dog lovers on Facebook.

I've got visions of dog collars for the loving owners studded with diamonds with the dog's name in rubies, emeralds or sapphires. Or whatever the birthstone of the dog is.

[emoji2]

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I have also heard of posie rings. Some UK jewellers now sell what they call partnership rings like wedding bands. Also consider friendship rings which were sometimes buckle fashioned ring bands.

Wonder if the already mentioned commitment rings would just take the place of the wedding ring instead of engagement ring size diamond.

Both partners would need a diamond commitment ring and the size of the diamond would indicate how committed each one is. Presumably they would be equal. If not, there could be a raised eyebrow.

 

[yssie]

How about a parent ring which the child now adult buys to commemorate their parent. Never heard of promise rings in the UK. Heard of gimmel ring, dearest ring, regards ring. With all the craftsmanship around now on the internet could have more design your own ring programmes which take into account helping the layman with ideas which are sound eg can,t have sloping diamond. Maybe ring to commemorate your pet, awful lot of dog lovers on Facebook.

I've got visions of dog collars for the loving owners studded with diamonds with the dog's name in rubies, emeralds or sapphires. Or whatever the birthstone of the dog is.

[emoji2]

One of my cats has a 10pointer burnished into her nametag. The other half accused me of failing to acknowledge her femininity and giving her a complex... I resolved the confusion. He wasn't nearly as appreciative as he ought to have been...

 

[lxAsTrOxl]

DeBeers to lower diamond prices by up to 9%.

Just smile and wave boys...smile and wave.

 

[mochiko42]

Great thread and I absolutely love the idea of the commitment ring. In today`s society it may be the way to go. Commitment also includes engagement but it could be either, it does not have to be engagement.

Today as it has been said here before we see less and less emphasis place on lasting values, values have become obsolete. People are looking for instant gratification and immediate pleasures.

Of course I too love travelling and have to admit that I really enjoy nice shoes, clothes, bags, etc. but as opposed to my friends, and of course I am slightly prejudiced working in the field, I now buy much less designer items and put money into diamonds and jewelry. Many times I have been disappointed because of expensive items falling apart, again there is no emphasis place on workmanship in creating something that will last. I still enjoy some of my more expensive clothing, etc. but I find that sometimes a dress that costs me 20 bucks will look as elegant as one that would cost 2000 and it may last just as long, in the meantime I can spend the rest of my money on something that will last and something that can usually be liquidated if necessary.

More ideas would be needed as to how to entice the Millennials to value lasting values. The commitment ring idea is one of the best so far and could be used very successfully in marketing. I also agree that unmarried women are an important market segment that has been much unexploited.

Interesting ideas. I fall into the Millenial group (just!) and find that brand names in jewelry don't persuade me to part with my money (I'll still admire Tiffany's et al but I wouldn't default to buying their pieces just because of the brand name. I would have to like the specific piece for itself rather than buying it just because its Tiffany's. There's a lot of branded jewelry out there that I don't like and can't understand the price tag). I'm also happy mixing budget items with more expensive items (e.g. I'm happy to wear a US$5 fashion bracelet with a $12k diamond ring, same as how I would wear an outfit from Zara with a pair of, say, Sergio Rossi sandals). I've found that the quality of designer items doesn't seem to be as good as before. The craftsmanship (specifically for clothes and handbags) is not good enough these days for me to justify buying them. I have a leather Coach bag from the early 90s that I used as a school bag in middle school and the design, material and craftsmanship was so much better than what I see in the Coach stores here today. For clothing and handbags, I find that they depreciate much faster than jewelry, so I stick to high street fashions (fortunately I like Japanese and Korean fashion styles which are both cheap and stylish.).

 

[OoohShiny]

Also men need to be targeted as well for diamond rings.

I think this needs to be explored by the markets. There are already some young males wearing diamond or simulant earring studs (although from what I have seen, this seems to be related to trends seen in Rap and similar music videos) and the 'metrosexual' modern generation is likely to be open to something expensive and flashy looking if it is also masculine. I have seen older gentlemen wearing diamond in rings but they are usually terrible quality and set into massive chunky hunks of gold, while the chap in question looks like he has lived a hard life in East London! lol

Diamond rings worn by men (at least those that actually have any decent cut and therefore sparkle) seem to be seen as 'a bit gay' by the general public over here. (Please be assured that I am in no way homophobic, I am just reporting the impression I get from those I know when I have mentioned diamonds for men before now, and they are all accepting of all sexualities.) I think it might be the case that diamonds need to lose their 'effeminate' connotations in order for them to become more widely accepted by 'the man on the street', who generally are not comfortable enough in their own skin/sexuality to deal with someone inferring they might be gay when they are not. (Sadly there are large swathes of the population who seem to take offence at the thought that others might not instantly know their 'manly, straight' sexuality from looking at them, which I think is a sad sign that true equality and acceptance of being gay as normal is still some way off, unfortunately ). If the diamond industry could get influential figures to start wearing diamonds (I'm thinking known fashion-conscious men, such as David Beckham) then the hipsters will pick up on it and start wearing them, which will eventually trickle through to the wider population. (Hopefully... )

Personally speaking, I'd love an Octavia preferably as big as Dancing Fire's! but I need to earn wayyyyyyy more money before laying out for such an unnecessary luxury purchase when I have debts to pay, a wedding to pay for, and a residence to remortgage or move from in a couple of years...


I hope all that comes across as ok and not offensive - it's still early and my brain/finger connections are not working as well as they should!

 

[gr8leo87]

Also men need to be targeted as well for diamond rings.

I think this needs to be explored by the markets. There are already some young males wearing diamond or simulant earring studs (although from what I have seen, this seems to be related to trends seen in Rap and similar music videos) and the 'metrosexual' modern generation is likely to be open to something expensive and flashy looking if it is also masculine. I have seen older gentlemen wearing diamond in rings but they are usually terrible quality and set into massive chunky hunks of gold, while the chap in question looks like he has lived a hard life in East London! lol

Diamond rings worn by men (at least those that actually have any decent cut and therefore sparkle) seem to be seen as 'a bit gay' by the general public over here. (Please be assured that I am in no way homophobic, I am just reporting the impression I get from those I know when I have mentioned diamonds for men before now, and they are all accepting of all sexualities.) I think it might be the case that diamonds need to lose their 'effeminate' connotations in order for them to become more widely accepted by 'the man on the street', who generally are not comfortable enough in their own skin/sexuality to deal with someone inferring they might be gay when they are not. (Sadly there are large swathes of the population who seem to take offence at the thought that others might not instantly know their 'manly, straight' sexuality from looking at them, which I think is a sad sign that true equality and acceptance of being gay as normal is still some way off, unfortunately ). If the diamond industry could get influential figures to start wearing diamonds (I'm thinking known fashion-conscious men, such as David Beckham) then the hipsters will pick up on it and start wearing them, which will eventually trickle through to the wider population. (Hopefully... )

Personally speaking, I'd love an Octavia preferably as big as Dancing Fire's! but I need to earn wayyyyyyy more money before laying out for such an unnecessary luxury purchase when I have debts to pay, a wedding to pay for, and a residence to remortgage or move from in a couple of years...


I hope all that comes across as ok and not offensive - it's still early and my brain/finger connections are not working as well as they should!

Diamonds have seen a similar challenge in the 30s especially in the west where the diamond was not seen how it's seen by the general public now thanks to brilliant advertisement by DeBeers. Diamonds see another challenge now in terms that it's audience is becoming a niche where as what it needs is to be able to attract a wider audience. Men rings and other men jewellery, jewelry for new borns, jewellery for kids, jewellery for birthdays and so forth.

Also the industry needs to target the homosexual couples as well. There's an opportunity there.. As we can sell two of everything

 

[smitcompton]

Hi all,

Yesterday, on CNBC, Debeers announced a 9% reduction in their diamond prices to their site holders. The diamond situation has become sort of dire, and even though they have allowed the site holders to refuse their offerings, they believe the price reduction is necessary for the industry.

So, demand is decreasing, and prices have been declining, but until recently we have not heard much about this on PS. Have any of the popular vendors here reduced prices?

I believe you have a small representation of buyers here, who do want well cut diamonds. But, for young men, the prices seem sort of silly I think. Sure, its the woman who has all these fantasies of her wedding day so she promotes this to him. But, I think many women realize that other things come first. Diamonds may come later in life.

I think DeBeers did a smart thing. Now we can wait for the result.

Annette

 

[craiguk]

Is the price cut not on rough stones? If that's the case then the 9% as a price cut represents a much lesser amount compared to a cut diamond price surely.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

You will see the polished market eventually adjust to any changes at the rough level. It is not always immediate as those rough stones that will be produced at the lower cost are not yet on the market. Resellers tend to have a little reluctance to lowering prices when they are sitting on an inventory with higher costs, but eventually they will be forced to make those adjustments. The ones who do it more proactively will be more successful in getting healthy inventory turn.

Ironically, it is in some ways easier to find bargains in a market that is moving rapidly up as most resellers are not geared for repricing on a frequent basis and so some stones will be priced on the old lower cost basis. You would think they would be quick to raise prices in a rising market as they have their replacement cost to be concerned about. But many businesses tend to look only at their actual cost and so are slow to raise prices. Other businesses understand the problem with that strategy yet are reluctant to be the first ones to raise prices for fear of losing competitiveness.

 

[telephone89]

I see a different side of millenials - Or whomever is 25-30 at this time (?). More and more people are pushing themselves into debt to get showy things. Ie, 30 year olds who haven't paid off student loans, are buying houses, bmws, iphones. Using lines of credit to buy expensive clothing, vacations. Diamonds could be a part of that, but as I see it, its more so cars and clothes. People have such little savings, instead spending it on things like this. Anything that looks luxe or expensive. It's the social media age. Does it matter that your vacation was shit, you got food poisoning and stayed in the bathroom for 23h a day? No, because only the nice pictures make it to FB that show you drinking, tanning, etc. Its all about perception.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hi all,

Yesterday, on CNBC, Debeers announced a 9% reduction in their diamond prices to their site holders. The diamond situation has become sort of dire, and even though they have allowed the site holders to refuse their offerings, they believe the price reduction is necessary for the industry.

So, demand is decreasing, and prices have been declining, but until recently we have not heard much about this on PS. Have any of the popular vendors here reduced prices?

I believe you have a small representation of buyers here, who do want well cut diamonds. But, for young men, the prices seem sort of silly I think. Sure, its the woman who has all these fantasies of her wedding day so she promotes this to him. But, I think many women realize that other things come first. Diamonds may come later in life.

I think DeBeers did a smart thing. Now we can wait for the result.

Annette

De Beers is a reaction and that is because the prices already fell - if they did not reduce prices manufacturers would have ceased buying - most have reduced production.
Pricescope does not sell diamonds - it facilitates trustworthy vendors to list their diamonds for a fee and enable transparency.
but we do report the prices and you can see that there have been big drops in pirces here https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart
Our CEO has been on a well deserved vacation and is behind on updating - but expect to see further drops in July and August - but do not expect the trend to continue as the market is and will be correcting.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You will see the polished market eventually adjust to any changes at the rough level. It is not always immediate as those rough stones that will be produced at the lower cost are not yet on the market. Resellers tend to have a little reluctance to lowering prices when they are sitting on an inventory with higher costs, but eventually they will be forced to make those adjustments. The ones who do it more proactively will be more successful in getting healthy inventory turn.

Ironically, it is in some ways easier to find bargains in a market that is moving rapidly up as most resellers are not geared for repricing on a frequent basis and so some stones will be priced on the old lower cost basis. You would think they would be quick to raise prices in a rising market as they have their replacement cost to be concerned about. But many businesses tend to look only at their actual cost and so are slow to raise prices. Other businesses understand the problem with that strategy yet are reluctant to be the first ones to raise prices for fear of losing competitiveness.

For example Bryan,
I have not repriced in my retail store and our cost prices continue to rise as our Aussie pacific peso has dropped from more than 1:1 usd a couple of years ago to now 0.71 usd for each A$!!!!!!!!!!!
So my staff are excellent at helping their customers find our older cheaper stock and selling that out first while I keep replacing it with diamonds that cost 20-30% more

 

[Ashley-Sarah]

With that being said Garry, would you recommend waiting to purchase a diamond?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

With that being said Garry, would you recommend waiting to purchase a diamond?

Unless there is a real melt down from China and we get a 1990 or 2008 crash, I think this is as close to the bottom as we are likely to see - the fact that De Beers reacted indicates they realize their customers are going broke, and so the big miners are reducing supply = prices will rise.
When they start rising, they usually go up pretty quick, and since the diamonds listed here, especially the virtuals, are rarely old, and the best mostly sell within a month, the prices will go up fast.
Once one big manufacturer puts prices up by 1%, others will follow. Next day, another 1%, next another 1% and inside a week you can have a really big jump!

 

[yssie]

Diamond on JA:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.73-carat-k-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-361457

May 12, 2015 - $22150
Aug 25, 2015 - $20400

 

[D_]

Diamond stalker

 

[therainbowradish]

How can we find these diamond deals? And again this is just modern cuts?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Diamond on JA:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.73-carat-k-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-361457

May 12, 2015 - $22150
Aug 25, 2015 - $20400

Thanks Yssie - yes - that is real!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

How can we find these diamond deals? And again this is just modern cuts?

Almost all online diamonds will be cheap. In Australia any diamond that has not been repriced may be cheap.
Old cuts probably do not change as it is not a normal supply and demand market. It may be worth while finding a new stone with a small table in an oversize ct wt (e.g. 1.15ct cut down to 1.00-1.05ct) and having it cut to old facet structure though.

 

[craiguk]

This is a strange one for me as I'm fairly heavily invested in a mine in South Africa that is due to start full production any time now.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This is a strange one for me as I'm fairly heavily invested in a mine in South Africa that is due to start full production any time now.

Really??..

 

[mochiko42]

With that being said Garry, would you recommend waiting to purchase a diamond?

Unless there is a real melt down from China and we get a 1990 or 2008 crash, I think this is as close to the bottom as we are likely to see - the fact that De Beers reacted indicates they realize their customers are going broke, and so the big miners are reducing supply = prices will rise.
When they start rising, they usually go up pretty quick, and since the diamonds listed here, especially the virtuals, are rarely old, and the best mostly sell within a month, the prices will go up fast.
Once one big manufacturer puts prices up by 1%, others will follow. Next day, another 1%, next another 1% and inside a week you can have a really big jump!

Looks more and more likely. Everyone here that I know in HK is panicking about their pension funds..

 

[craiguk]

This is a strange one for me as I'm fairly heavily invested in a mine in South Africa that is due to start full production any time now.

Really??..

Really...but I got in a few years ago so I'm still in a good profit (80%) and I don't believe production sales are priced in to the share price yet. It's a long term investment anyway so slight corrections shouldn't be a problem - i hope.