Car buying advice please

[TooPatient]

Long story short, we are trading in our car with balance owing for less expensive car that would mean no payments.
The dealership we bought from emailed specifically because they want the sort of car we have to sell used.

We need to do this with NO money out of pocket and NO financing. We could not get financing if we even tried and have all of $30 right now. So it HAS to work this way.

Current car: 2013 Mazda CX5 with 47000 miles on beautiful nearly new condition and upgraded tires (also in beautiful condition -- $1000+ set)

Favorite used: 2010 Kia Forte with 42,000 miles. They are doing touch up paint. Couple of dents. Needs air conditioner repair (also being done)
Listed at $11,495

Other used option: 2007 Kia Spectra with 74,000 miles. Minor fabric damage in back. Ding with small crack in windshield (windshield to be repaired).
Listed: $7,995


We owe $12,200 on our current car. They can sell it for around $21,000.
Also have remains of service contract to add about $1000-1500 to whatever trade in value.

Any suggestions on how to approach this? Would like the lower miles. Only car in house has to be reliable. It also has a bit of warranty where the other has none.

Tax has to be added. Can drop price or something to cover that.

In Kirkland, WA


Any suggestions greatly appreciated. I know they make a fair amount off of these so hoping to figure out how to get it to work in our favor here...


ETA: this is our 3rd car through them. First two brand new. Also brough them another customer who also bought new from them.

 

[VRBeauty]

I have to admit that I have no experience with these kinds of deals, and I have no idea how those numbers would work out. I do have some experience with older cars, having taken two cars from new to very old... and my experience is that repairs start getting more serious and expensive at around 60K miles... so those higher mileage numbers tend to scare me. If they really want your car... I'd hold out for a certified pre-owned car if at all possible, even if it means compromising on the model or features that you're hoping for. It looks like Kia has a reasonable certified pre-owned program, but you'd have to get a 2011 or newer car (http://www.edmunds.com/certified-cars/compare-program.html).

Also, ask to see the service history of any car you're interested in, and get its VIN number. You can find vehicle transaction/sales and accident history, and sometimes repair histories, online if using the VIN number.

 

[amc80]

Honestly, those types of solicitation letters are usually scams to get you in to the dealership. I've gotten one for every car I've owned. Your best bet, to get the most bang for your buck, would be to sell your car private party. You will get way more that way than with a trade in. Also- I'm not sure about WA, but in NV, there's no sales tax when buying a used car from a private party.

 

[TooPatient]

I have to admit that I have no experience with these kinds of deals, and I have no idea how those numbers would work out. I do have some experience with older cars, having taken two cars from new to very old... and my experience is that repairs start getting more serious and expensive at around 60K miles... so those higher mileage numbers tend to scare me. If they really want your car... I'd hold out for a certified pre-owned car if at all possible, even if it means compromising on the model or features that you're hoping for. It looks like Kia has a reasonable certified pre-owned program, but you'd have to get a 2011 or newer car (http://www.edmunds.com/certified-cars/compare-program.html).

Also, ask to see the service history of any car you're interested in, and get its VIN number. You can find vehicle transaction/sales and accident history, and sometimes repair histories, online if using the VIN number.

Great reminder about VIN check! I haven't bought a used car in a long time...

Looked up both possibilities. Both are clean. No accidents or major damage or anything.

Ideally, we'd be keeping our current car. This isn't something we would normally be doing. The dealership is awesome and runs great returning customer sales. We had planned to keep our current car for another couple of years (had planned to have it paid off by now...) then trade it in with additional cash to purchase the next new car with no financing.

But, life happens.
Our payment is due next week. Don't know how we can manage to pay it. I am selling more stuff Monday (and hopefully a biggish item tomorrow) just to keep the phone, electricity, and water on. We barely managed to avoid towing last month as I sold the diamond from my e-ring just in time. (Yes, we are both applying all over the place too. Contract, full time, summer, part time, whatever)

The sales guy doesn't know all this. I may end up resorting to telling him if we can come close to a deal on something.

Where we are right now is we HAVE to trade it in and these are the two most reliable looking used cars I could find after checking several dealerships in the area. We have always had good luck at this dealership and the shop is pretty good at catching stuff.

I do plan to also request to see the detailed inspection report for each car (they do a thorough inspection on each as it comes in) and will request a few minor things if needed -- like the 74,000 mile car needs to have the timing belt replaced (if it isn't new already), a windshield ding re-inspected, and the seat cushion replaced. The 42,000 mile car needs a new air conditioning clutch unit or a new air filter (had old filters in as it had not been detailed & inspected when I wanted to drive it).


So....
I guess I am just hoping to make a bad situation a little less unpleasant by being able to get the newer of the two cars.



(Both actually drove great and ran really smooth at low speeds up a big hill and at freeway speeds.)

 

[TooPatient]

Honestly, those types of solicitation letters are usually scams to get you in to the dealership. I've gotten one for every car I've owned. Your best bet, to get the most bang for your buck, would be to sell your car private party. You will get way more that way than with a trade in. Also- I'm not sure about WA, but in NV, there's no sales tax when buying a used car from a private party.

Hmm....

Off to look up sales tax stuff!

(Yeah... familiar with the tricks to get us in to the dealership. If I hadn't been already planning to take it in we would have tossed it like the rest.)



ETA: Dang tax. No "sales tax" on private party sales but you do have to pay "use tax" at the same rate.

 

[iLander]

And you checked all these car values on Kelley Blue Book? On kbb.com?

There are some places that will give you plain cash for your car; Carmax, AutoNation are 2. No need to buy from them, they just give you a check.

Then maybe you'll consider something reliable like a Camry or a Civic?

 

[NewEnglandLady]

If I were you, I'd probably take a different approach to selling. I'd start by doing what amc recommended and selling via private party (this is how we bought our last vehicle and it was seamless). If KBB value is $21K, then I would try to sell it for that much and then pay off the balance. That would leave you about $9K in your pocket.

From there I'd look find a car like a Kia Forte with 100K+ miles for under $5K if possible--and pay cash for it. Then you can keep $1K (or more) for a small emergency fund and the rest can go to debt.

Cars are my absolute least favorite purchase because it's a sunk cost. We pay cash and drive them into the ground--I still have my 2000 Hyundai Elantra that I paid cash for in college and it now has nearly 250K miles on it. Just get you something that can get you from point A to point B.

 

[TooPatient]

Will look up cash price for private sale. I know I did a couple of weeks ago but don't remember the exact amount.

Need to find a reliable car before selling.

Saw a few more possibilities last night but none in the 5-7000 range better than these two. Both of these seem to have reputations for going a lot (been reading forums) of miles. Of we have to, there are lower price that might stay together long enough to get us through this.


NEL -- You describe exactly what we are hoping for.

 

[TooPatient]

So.... Top of the range KBB trade in value is $16,200
Top of range private party is $18,000

Will see what dealer offers. Last time, they offered way over KBB since we were returning customers and going through them for next car.

Will keep private option in mind too.

 

[telephone89]

You need to know what the dealership will actually offer you for your car. Check out comps for your car on craigslist/kijiji/auto trader. You will 99% likely get more $ doing a private sale, but as you are a loyal customer to the dealership, they might be more inclined to help you out.

 

[azstonie]

Hi Too!

Please don't take this personally, okay, but no dealership is awesome for you. They are profit-making monsters and they exist to make profit in any way you may imagine and in some ways you can't. If you have the "they are awewome" mentality you're already in trouble. Try the wary outlook, it'll serve you better.

Do not let them run your credit. They'll shop you to multiple lenders and all those inquiries will further ruin your possibilities for another 6-12 months. You must tell them this specifically. Some stealerships, um I mean dealerships, get your license plate when you drive up, look you up via the DMV, and then shop your credit to multiple entities all without you knowing or your permission. This happened to my DH when he went car shopping one weekend when I was out of town. He did not know about this practice. His credit went from well over 800 to not well over 800 in 10 minutes at the dealership from the finance department shopping him to 8 lenders.

First, the 2007 Kia is going to be off its 10-year warranty in 2 years so you cannot get this one. Plus if I read correctly above, the timing belt is going to need to be replaced soon and that is one of the most expensive (and important) jobs to be done on the car.

I've made money on every car we've ever bought and the first place I go is back to the dealership from which it was bought and I ask them if they want to buy it.

If you sell to a private party, figure out a way that you can secure your car when they test drive it WITHOUT YOU BEING IN THE CAR TOO. That is too risky. Maybe somebody here knows a good way to do that. The car they came in is probably not adequate, you don't know its theirs, for one thing. Remove the registration from the car during test drives, check their insurance card too. Don't have a full tank of gas in it, very little would be best. Enough for a quick run to verify that it runs to description.

Good luck with this! We have a Kia and its been a pleasure to drive and not a thing to do other than the scheduled maintenance.

 

[TooPatient]

Az-- Thank you!
Good to be reminded.

I don't trust them to make me good deal. They are a business and they are in sales. I guess a better way to have put it is that they are the known evil as opposed to unknown.

I insisted on all sorts of checks and if we go with them, there are things they have already agreed to fix -- timing belt, air conditioner, and windshield (between the two... Not all on one)



What kind of Kia do you have?

 

[azstonie]

Hi Too:

We got the Soul. Its our errands-in-town car. Its been great, really happy with it.

 

[TooPatient]

Hi Too:

We got the Soul. Its our errands-in-town car. Its been great, really happy with it.

I drove one of those for a couple of days. Nice for errands and stuff!

My family had a bunch of Kias and they seemed to last really well. Hoping one of these will too.

Oh... Not sure if I mentioned, but this is the dealership we purchased our current car. Also the new car we had before the current car.

 

[TooPatient]

They are playing mind games. Supposed to have called me this morning. Only because I insisted on seeing full inspection and that wasn't done in time yesterday.
No call yet.

Did this yesterday too. The whole making us wait and trying to look like doing favors and being nice.

I know better!

Not going to let them win. Will go enjoy a shower then give them a call. They can finish it all up (including paperwork) by 3pm or just postpone to Monday...
Sales numbers tracked by week. The manager would NOT be happy if they let me get away for the week. He was already upset when I walked out yesterday. (i insisted on that inspection and said I was going home until it was fine as I don't sign documents agreeing to buy as is BEFORE a full inspection report....)

 

[TooPatient]

More games. He claimed to have called. He didn't.

They are willing to do 13,000 for trade in...... Um. No.
I called him on the game. He agreed to 14,000 and we could finance the rest..... Um. No.

We will NOT give them a car that a comparable local is going for 22,000 and trade in on something they got for 3,000.

Current car is 46,000 miles and has a really good 100,000 mile warranty and super nice tires.
Trading for a used that has NO warranty and hoping it has no problems is not going to happen. (especially if they want us to take a big loss and pay extra for,the used!)


Will keep looking for reliable used but not going to rush and get taken advantage of. Will figure out a payment somehow.

 

[jazzoboe]

I know this really doesn't answer your question, but I have a 2010 Kia Forte with just shy of 40,000 miles on it, and it's been a great car so far. In the nearly 5 years we've had it, it's only had one tiny issue and it was covered under warranty. If you can figure out the financial side of things, I would highly recommend the Forte, especially if it comes with some warranty remaining. Best of luck!

 

[TooPatient]

I know this really doesn't answer your question, but I have a 2010 Kia Forte with just shy of 40,000 miles on it, and it's been a great car so far. In the nearly 5 years we've had it, it's only had one tiny issue and it was covered under warranty. If you can figure out the financial side of things, I would highly recommend the Forte, especially if it comes with some warranty remaining. Best of luck!

Great to know! Thank you.

This Forte not likely, but there is another in the area that may work out.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

No advice. Just hope it all works out for you and your family.

 

[HollyS]

I worked many years in the car business, so here are my thoughts:

You need a used vehicle for 11K or under, so that the 12K you will get for your trade will cover the purchase, is that right? While I know that you feel some loyalty to this company, don't act too fast. Look around at other lots, paying particular attention to low mileage certified used at other dealerships. Get some comparisons. Absolutely look up your value on the internet and make sure of what you can get for your trade.

And it would be to your advantage if this dealership knew you were looking around; you might get offered more for the trade, or a lower purchase price on another vehicle.

Also, NEVER again -- and this is for everyone reading this -- purchase extended warranties or other "insurances" on a new vehicle at time of purchase. They can be bought separately at any time, apart from your contract, so you are not paying interest on these "after market" add-ons. Really, only Gap insurance is worth buying. I know whereof I speak, I promise you.

 

[packrat]

ugh, I feel for you. I hate dealing w/dealerships and I'm completely over dealing w/ours on our piece of shit lemon. I hope you can find something that works for you. Good advice here

 

[LoveLikeCrazy]

TooPatient, I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from but unless its a fully loaded cx5 GT AWD i have not seen anything with that kind of mileage for 22k (maybe it is different in your area). You can buy a brand new base model for 23k and I bought my brand new CX 5 grand touring AWD (every option!) for 28 after talking them down. If you see something listed at those prices it is because they know they are going to get beat down on that price - you can never expect them to pay you what they sell your car for.

If you have a carmax in your area, i would def look into them. I have no experience, but they have a huge used lot with all different types of vehicles - they might be able to get you into something without a payment on trade.

Of note: my friend went to toyota dealership after receiving one of these letters in the mail. She called and gave her VIN (also has bought her previous two cars from dealer) - she said she wanted a RAV4 AWD - does not have to be new, but low miles (under 30k) for less than 15 (financing). They told her they could work it out - she made an appt for a few days later - go in and they value her car at 4600 (she owes 7800). Her husband gets them up to 7800 to pay the car, but they would still have to finance the other car which was almost 20k. Thankfully she agreed to just wait til her current vehicle is paid off, but she is a brand new mother with an infant and they wasted her time.

I am so sorry on your financial situation. I really wish you the best in getting a decent car with no payment! Check out NADA values and also auto trader trade in values. Just to show differences - I went to one Mazda dealership and they were going to charge me 32k on the CX5 GT AWD and only 6k on my trade. The second dealership i went to (which i ultimately bought from) - offered me 10,700 on trade and i got the car for 28k (husband is usually good at negotiating!). I had positive equity in the trade so i was able to add additional money down. I know you have done business with your current dealer, but if they aren't working for you, i would definitely shop around. Good luck!!!

 

[TooPatient]

Holly -- Thank you! Will be sure to do all that next time.

LLC -- Kelley Blue Book for the area and also looking at prices similar mileage 2013 Touring FWD at other dealers in area. (minus some for their expense and all)


Kept the car for now. Sold a couple of guns to a dealer. That just almost gets the car payment. A big tool sale is hopefully finishing soon to cover the rest.

I also have an interview on Wednesday. Just a summer position at a book store so it won't pay much if I get it, but it will help!

 

[VRBeauty]

TooPatient - I hope you're able to work things out so you can keep your current car. Any deal you work out with a dealership - no matter how you slice it - is going to add to their bottom line at your expense.

I worked many years in the car business, so here are my thoughts:

NEVER again -- and this is for everyone reading this -- purchase extended warranties or other "insurances" on a new vehicle at time of purchase. They can be bought separately at any time, apart from your contract, so you are not paying interest on these "after market" add-ons. Really, only Gap insurance is worth buying. I know whereof I speak, I promise you.

Holly - I'd love to get more info from you about this, but I'll start a new thread. Looking forward to hearing from you!

 

[iLander]

TooPatient, If cash in your pocket is what you need right now, what about leasing a car for a while?

Sell the old car back to the dealer or privately, whatever.

Then just lease for under $200 per month.

It gives you a couple of years to get back on your feet, then you may be able to strike a deal for the lease car. Or just turn it in.

Here's an article https://www.yahoo.com/autos/18-sizzling-new-car-lease-c1436576831489.html

This is actually a good month to be car shopping, August is the slowest car sale month of the year.

 

[telephone89]

Just wanted to say good luck on your interview! PT work is great, because you can still interview around that time, but are still getting income. Even if its not much, its still something.

 

[MarionC]

And you checked all these car values on Kelley Blue Book? On kbb.com?

There are some places that will give you plain cash for your car; Carmax, AutoNation are 2. No need to buy from them, they just give you a check.

Then maybe you'll consider something reliable like a Camry or a Civic?

I sold my Mother's car to Carmax and got a very fair price [I researched the "fair market value" on the Edmunds website and got more than that]. It is certainly worth investigating/ getting a quote.

 

[TooPatient]

Quick update:

Book store interview went well. Should know by end of week. Part time summer only.

And....
Had a surprise phone interview for a position I applied for earlier. This is exactly what I did for 6 years. Went very well. Should be getting follow up in person soon.
Part time. 19 hours per week.
Contract 3 to 6 months.

DH also had a phone interview this morning. If all went well, he will have another two phone interviews and then in person.

 

[TooPatient]

Okay.... No bookstore job.
Just got a generic form "thanks anyway" email.