Fence - Advice needed

[Puppmom]

The house next door to us was flipped and we just got new neighbors. They are putting up a fence to contain their pup (don't worry! no drama here.) and asked our opinion - nice of them. We live on small lots - all about .16 acre. And they're narrow. Anyway, I just said I preferred that we have enough room to mow between our garage/fence and their fence without risking damage to our fence and their fence. They agreed that made sense. They found what they think is the property line marker in the back corner of the yard - it's a metal stake so not sure what else it would be? They roped off their fence line using the stake as a guide and it is so darn close to our garage (about 2 feet away). Our township does not require any setback so they can build right on the property line - if that's indeed the line but I honestly don't know. I don't really love the idea of this big white wall closing us in but it is what it is.

I'm concerned this doesn't give us enough room to maintain the grass/weeds there and I don't want to risk damage to their fence or mine. For reference, it would be a space about 25 feet long and 2 feet wide. Ours fence is cedar and handles the weedwacker well but they're putting up vinyl which I've heard takes a beating from the weedwacker.

Would you ask them to move it in a little? I don't really care about the loss of space...it's kind of useless area to us anyway so I thought about telling them they could just line up with our garage but that would mean lining up with our driveway which is narrow so that wouldn't work. Do I just leave it be and come up with some alternative like filling that area with mulch or stones?

Oh, the fence is going up tomorrow. We've known for a little while but they just roped it off yesterday and that's when I realized how close it would be.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I had a problem with one of my neighbors who just put her fence where ever she wanted. When i went to put my fence in the back up i had a hole where her back fence and mine didn't meet. I talked to my township who told me to just connect my fence to hers because All FENCES MUST GO ON THE PROPERTY LINE. My neighbor has given up about 2 feet of her property to me(its now mine) because she didn't put her fence in the right place. Its been more than 20 yrs so ownership reverts to me. Check with your township what the law is, if any.

Annette

 

[lyra]

Fences go on the property line where I live also. I would definitely have the lot surveyed before a fence goes up though. It would solve any potential issues about the actual placement. We have a very narrow lot. Our back fences begin at the back edge of the house. In between the houses on either side (one side is bigger of course, one side narrower), we put down gravel so that no maintenance was required at all. Don't know if you could do something similar. We have a shed in the backyard for our mower and lawn/garden tools.

I think if they choose a vinyl fence, it's up to them to face the wear issues. Ideally, you should both agree on materials. Here, the neighbour automatically pays half of the fencing. It's non-negotiable, which is fine. I wouldn't like having 2 different fences in my backyard. Luckily all the neighbours do the same style of fencing here. Good luck.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


Lyra's right. You need your survey. I still had mine so it6 was easy for me to check the property lines. If you can't find yours the township may have a survey of your home.


Annette

 

[Puppmom]

I called the township and they said we can come in for a copy of our lot measurements but I'm not sure I'll be able to interpret without a point of reference? I guess I'll see what we can get. I don't really care so much but if we move the next people might. Once it's up it's up and I don't want to have any regrets. I hate to do it but if we can't get it resolved by the end of the day then I'm just going to have to ask them to wait and get the property surveyed or move it in to where we're both comfortable. In my opinion, it's too close but, if that's the property line then so be it. If it's not the property line, I don't want it there.

I feel bad because we've been discussing on and off and I told them I was comfortable as long as we could mow/maintain back there but we clearly have different ideas of what that is after seeing that roped off line. If they had roped it off before yesterday (2 days before installation) we could have discussed and resolved before but now there may not be time. I may have to be a real jerk and leave them a note because we're leaving straight from work tonight to visit out of town friends.

The ironic thing is we put up a fence when we moved in 6 years ago. The neighbors on our other side originally agreed to just link our fences because it was easiest but then they decided the day of installation that they didn't want to do that. It was so frustrating because it didn't just change the plan, it meant that we didn't have enough fence because their change of heart meant we needed another 40 feet of fence. Now, I can see why they had second thoughts. We opted to put our fence about 4 feet from their garage for easy maintenance and to avoid having to take down a beautiful hydrangea tree.

 

[Puppmom]

One last thing - when I called the township and mentioned the metal stake they seemed surprised and said our property marker "pins" are usually buried and require a metal detector to find. I asked if that could be the property marker and she said it could be but she doesn't know. Ugh!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


You can use that fence line that is 4 ft from the property line on the other side of your property. Then add four feet. That would give you a fairly accurate reading of where the property line is on the other side of your property. Use the measurements you get from the township. I'll bet the people before you thought they could make repairs to the garage with the two foot space.

The fence company may have put up the property line marker.


Sorry, if you don't know where the property line is on the side of the four foot space, it won't help.

Annette

 

[partgypsy]

Hi,

I had a problem with one of my neighbors who just put her fence where ever she wanted. When i went to put my fence in the back up i had a hole where her back fence and mine didn't meet. I talked to my township who told me to just connect my fence to hers because All FENCES MUST GO ON THE PROPERTY LINE. My neighbor has given up about 2 feet of her property to me(its now mine) because she didn't put her fence in the right place. Its been more than 20 yrs so ownership reverts to me. Check with your township what the law is, if any.

Annette

I'm not a lawyer but I find this fishy. What if your neighbors sell the house and do a search of the property lines? Just because you built a fence on someone's property, doesn't mean you have right to claim that property. Otherwise what is stopping people from putting up fences and then claiming property? The property lines are what are listed in the land deed, not where the fence stands.

eta to add, looked it up, and it is such a thing. Wow, that is scary!

Where I live, you are not supposed to put the fence "on" the property line. It is supposed to be either on one side of the property, or the other.

 

[packrat]

2 ft isn't very much space. I'd brick it and make it a path rather than mess w/maintaining it. I don't know how it is here...we put our fence up when we bought the place and JD took care of the permit and such. I know that he put it in from the actual property line just a little bit-and I know he had a reason for it but I'm not sure if it was b/c he *had* to or to leave a little extra room between places.

 

[Puppmom]

There's no automatic or default easement in our area so property would still be ours even if fenced into their yard. And, if determined in the future that they put the fence on our property we *could* demand they move it. The township could only tell us (and them) that our properties are each exactly 50 feet wide but without a point of reference this wasn't entirely helpful to either of us. So we measured from about where they want to put the fence 50 feet across and came really close to about where we think the property line is on the other side.

Last night we talked to them after putting our kids down and they moved their roped line in until DH felt he could comfortably get back there if we decide to for mowing/garage maintenance. Fence is going in this morning. They seem like reasonable, agreeable folks and I'm confident they'll put it where they said they will but I guess we'll find out! DH is home if anything comes up.

We decided we'll probably do as has been suggested here and put some type of fill back there - like stones or bricks. Then plant an arborvitae or something else we could squeeze past to get back there if we need to.

With the small properties as it is, I don't love the idea of basically a wall being erected (they're putting up 5 foot vinyl fence with no gaps) because it'll feel so closed in but it's their prerogative. On the bright side - they have a 13 year old boy who loves my kids. The feeling is not mutual (my 2 year old cries and wants to go in when he pops over) and he doesn't get the hint - frankly, he doesn't even get "they don't want to play with you right now." So, maybe the fence will help us keep him at bay.

Sometimes home ownership is such a pain!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

You did good, I think. At least you have an idea of the property lines now. By the way you always get a survey when you buy a property. It may be with your closing papers.

Part Gypsy--- I don't want you to think i went in for a land grab. My neighbor was my friend and she didn't understand the fence had to be on the property line, nor did I. She moved and several yrs later I put in my fence. I told the new neighbors what the problem was and they said they didn't care either, as they bought the property with the fence in place. I did get them to sign a statement to that affect.

It takes 20 yrs of openly using the property for it to revert to you. I planted some shrubs and trees on that property line.

Annette

 

[Puppmom]

Thanks! Hopefully we're happy with the result. If not...well, I guess there are more important things in life and we'll get over it!

Oh, and our "survey" that came with our closing papers is a sheet of legal size paper with a "map" that contains all of the lots in a 2 block radius and just has rectangles on it with measurements that all say 50'x150' or 100'x150' for double lots with a little variation for corner lots. We live in a very small/old town (almost all houses erected in 1920 on these small lots so there's no newer construction) and they literally give you a photocopy of this sheet - with no point of reference. It's kind of bizarre. There are property marker pins buried underground. For $1,500, the township will come out and find them with a metal detector/digging and put up temporary wood stakes. Didn't seem worth it since we sort of had an idea where it was and the neighbors were flexible on moving the line in to what was more comfortable for us. If they wouldn't budge, I guess we (or they really!) would have had to do that.

On a side note - when I went into the township and they heard me mention a fence and a neighbor, there was a collective sigh with a note that they get these questions daily and usually people are pretty angry about it. I could see how that could be. I was getting myself pretty worked up over less than a foot.

 

[lyra]

It sounds like it's going to work out okay. I'd rather have any kind of fence than no fence.

 

[missy]

It sounds like it's going to work out okay. I'd rather have any kind of fence than no fence.

Glad it is going to all work out. I totally agree about having some kind of fence or trees or foliage to give you privacy. Why do some neighbors get all bent out of shape about that. We are dealing with that issue right now. And it's not even a fence but beautiful trees and tall grasses. Sheesh, that saying about good fences make for good neighbors is true IMO.

 

[Puppmom]

When we put up our fence, our neighbors (the ones that originally owned the house that just sold) stopped speaking to us. Sheesh! I just wanted to keep my dog and children in! They turned out to be pretty nutty.