Opposition to same sex marriage ruling

[msop04]

I'm still trying to figure out what your b!tching about now, Kenny... Like you said, our highest court has ruled -- IN YOUR FAVOR.
What is it going to take to make you happy... or even content?? I'm guessing you'll always have a huge chip on your shoulder, which is sad for you. I wish you the best, but I fear even that will not be sufficient.

msop04, I do not insert myself into arguments often, but it just seems as you are coming from a place of huge privilege to say that.[/quote]

I feel as if I have lived a very blessed and privileged life, yes. But it seems sad to gripe and moan when a huge step forward to equality has been made. I just think we should be grateful for such victories. I also feel that there are some people who will always feel the world is out to get them and will never be content. (and I'm not at all referring to anyone on this thread -- I'm merely making an observation)

 

[msop04]

If you are so concerned about pharmacists and pharmacy protocol, maybe you should start your own thread about that.

I'm not concerned, as I know what I speak of regarding that topic... I'm trying to make people have a better understanding before crucifying those in the medical profession (specifically mine). That is all.

Since you are not getting the polite implication I am trying to make, I will be more explicit; your long, LONG posts are a thread jack. I will not post further, because I will return to the subject of this thread.

She didn't even start that discussion on pharmacists! Why gang up on her? Just skip her posts.

It's okay... I totally threadjacked.

 

[Niel]

No one was actually being harmed by the old ban on same sex marriages. LOL

Here are some things same-sex couples were not privy to. Maybe you don't see them as harmful because you had the luxury of taking them for granted.

Tax Benefits
Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
Estate Planning Benefits
Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.
Government Benefits
Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
Receiving public assistance benefits.
Employment Benefits
Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.
Medical Benefits
Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.
Death Benefits
Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
Making burial or other final arrangements.
Family Benefits
Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
Applying for joint foster care rights.
Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.
Housing Benefits
Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.
Consumer Benefits
Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.
Other Legal Benefits and Protections
Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

+1

 

[Tekate]

Thank you for the pointer to the facebook posting.. I appreciate it very much! great posting...

I think the law should be the law. Not that it mirrors my belief, but that it keeps any religious aspect out. I don't like all of our laws, but I do abide by them.

I found this on FB and really enjoyed reading it. One of my good friends is a christian and 'liked it', so I read it. This is the sort of perspective I really respect in regards to religion vs gay marriage, and I actually enjoy reading and seeing the other side. You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to respect it, and understand that almost all religions pick and choose what they want to follow.
https://www.facebook.com/richiebranson/posts/970423566322606

 

[iLander]

The recent Hobby Lobby ruling is a direct example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth to another human being.

The fact that rapists have parental rights* (regarding the child that is conceived during a rape) is another example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth.

*In many states, not all.

 

[msop04]

If you oppose gay marriage, then don't do it.
If you oppose eating pork, then don't do it.

Others eating pork or gay-marrying doesn't harm you and is frankly none of your beeswax.

Agreed. You see, Kenny... we think the same for the most part.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I'm still trying to figure out what your b!tching about now, Kenny... Like you said, our highest court has ruled -- IN YOUR FAVOR.
What is it going to take to make you happy... or even content?? I'm guessing you'll always have a huge chip on your shoulder, which is sad for you. I wish you the best, but I fear even that will not be sufficient.

msop04, I do not insert myself into arguments often, but it just seems as you are coming from a place of huge privilege to say that.

I feel as if I have lived a very blessed and privileged life, yes. But it seems sad to gripe and moan when a huge step forward to equality has been made. I just think we should be grateful for such victories. I also feel that there are some people who will always feel the world is out to get them and will never be content. (and I'm not at all referring to anyone on this thread -- I'm merely making an observation)[/quote]

See again, to have the mentality that a person should just be grateful that they were granted rights after a possible lifetime of being treated as a second class citizen is a comment made from a place of privilege. There is still a lot of pain and anger to process. Just because you may not see it that way doesn't mean it isn't happening or worthy of compassion.

 

[msop04]

The recent Hobby Lobby ruling is a direct example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth to another human being.

The fact that rapists have parental rights* (regarding the child that is conceived during a rape) is another example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth.

*In many states, not all.

HL is a private company, and you aren't forced to work for them or accept their benefit package -- anyone can go on the exchange. I truly have no words regarding rapists' rights in that manner... I've never heard of that. It just sounds cray to me.

 

[msop04]

I'm still trying to figure out what your b!tching about now, Kenny... Like you said, our highest court has ruled -- IN YOUR FAVOR.
What is it going to take to make you happy... or even content?? I'm guessing you'll always have a huge chip on your shoulder, which is sad for you. I wish you the best, but I fear even that will not be sufficient.

msop04, I do not insert myself into arguments often, but it just seems as you are coming from a place of huge privilege to say that.

I feel as if I have lived a very blessed and privileged life, yes. But it seems sad to gripe and moan when a huge step forward to equality has been made. I just think we should be grateful for such victories. I also feel that there are some people who will always feel the world is out to get them and will never be content. (and I'm not at all referring to anyone on this thread -- I'm merely making an observation)

See again, to have the mentality that a person should just be grateful that they were granted rights after a possible lifetime of being treated as a second class citizen is a comment made from a place of privilege. There is still a lot of pain and anger to process. Just because you may not see it that way doesn't mean it isn't happening or worthy of compassion.[/quote]

Okay, I can see where you're coming from. Fair enough. When it is good to be grateful for steps in the right direction? To me, always.

When do we, as a society, move on and try to live better and more meaningful lives?? Is it "once a victim, always a victim" (even if it is only perceived)? I'm not being cheeky at all... this is something I've always wondered about...

 

[OreoRosies86]

I guess I wouldn't see it as something to be grateful for at all, because it should never have been an issue to begin with. We live in a free country not beholden to religious laws, we should be able to marry anyone we choose.

In a similar sense, I suppose it might be similar to being given up for adoption and having people ask "Why do you have a chip on your shoulder about your biological parents giving you up? Why do you want to travel to China and find out about your family? Can't you just be grateful that you were adopted?" Just because it isn't your pain doesn't mean that pain isn't very real for someone else.

 

[Niel]

One momentous step toward equality by no means lessens the issues facing the gay community. Women's right to vote was granted in 1920, the civil rights act was passed in 1964. Do women and the black community have nothing else to complain about? Equality is a never ending battle and its an individual's duty not to get complacent with one victory, regardly how big.

 

[msop04]

I guess I wouldn't see it as something to be grateful for at all, because it should never have been an issue to begin with. We live in a free country not behoden to religious laws, we should be able to marry anyone we choose.

In a similar sense, I suppose it might be similar to being given up for adoption and having people ask "Why do you have a chip on your shoulder about your biological parents giving you up? Why do you want to travel to China and find out about your family? Can't you just be grateful that you were adopted?" Just because it isn't your pain doesn't mean that pain isn't very real for someone else.

Depends. If by "chip" you mean literally having a hateful heart toward society, then that's not the same as being sad and genuinely feeling the need to seek out the who's and why's of your own situation (regarding birth and adoption)...

There are just some people who can't focus on any good in their lives because they are too focused on being miserable, too wrapped up in their own victim mentalities.

Edited to say that I feel it's totally normal to have a chip on your shoulder towards the parents who gave you up... but it's not healthy to hate the world and everyone in it because of your own circumstances.

 

[msop04]

One momentous step toward equality by no means lessens the issues facing the gay community. Women's right to vote was granted in 1029, the civil rights act was passed in 1964. Do women and the black community have nothing else to complain about? Equality is a never ending battle and its an individual's duty not to get complacent with one victory, regardly how big.

I agree that complacency isn't the way to go... otherwise, we'd never change or move forward. My issue is with those who make it a point to have such hate for our society and everyone in it to the point that nothing will ever make them content...

 

[iLander]

The recent Hobby Lobby ruling is a direct example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth to another human being.

The fact that rapists have parental rights* (regarding the child that is conceived during a rape) is another example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth.

*In many states, not all.

HL is a private company, and you aren't forced to work for them or accept their benefit package -- anyone can go on the exchange. I truly have no words regarding rapists' rights in that manner... I've never heard of that. It just sounds cray to me.

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/family_law/20141.authcheckdam.pdf titled "“The Second Rape”: Legal Options for Rape Survivors to Terminate Parental Rights"

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/rekha-basu/2015/04/14/basu-really-rapists-get-parental-rights/25801571/

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/19862227/rapists-rights (please note, Florida law has been changed to protect the victim since this story was written)

 

[msop04]

The recent Hobby Lobby ruling is a direct example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth to another human being.

The fact that rapists have parental rights* (regarding the child that is conceived during a rape) is another example of religious beliefs infringing on the human right of women to control how/when/if they want to give birth.

*In many states, not all.

HL is a private company, and you aren't forced to work for them or accept their benefit package -- anyone can go on the exchange. I truly have no words regarding rapists' rights in that manner... I've never heard of that. It just sounds cray to me.

http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/family_law/20141.authcheckdam.pdf titled "“The Second Rape”: Legal Options for Rape Survivors to Terminate Parental Rights"

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/rekha-basu/2015/04/14/basu-really-rapists-get-parental-rights/25801571/

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/19862227/rapists-rights (please note, Florida law has been changed to protect the victim since this story was written)

Wow... thanks for posting. I hadn't heard of this at all. No words. I will bookmark these to read ASAP.

 

[telephone89]

Thank you for the pointer to the facebook posting.. I appreciate it very much! great posting...

I'm glad you liked it!

 

[SeeingSunshine]

I really loved seeing all of the "Time to move to Canada" tweets. Talk about ignorance. I don't think they would like it much here.

Some churches did make a fuss back when gay marriage was first legalized. Now it's just seen as a normal thing and there are some churches that will perform same sex marriage ceremonies and some that won't. A few churches in my city fly pride flags and it's just a known thing that anyone is welcome to get married there. I could see it being an issue if someone had a strong tie to a particular church, but on general it's easy to find somewhere accepting.

It's been 10 years, but now same sex marriage is a normal thing. The new school curriculum even includes 2 moms and 2 dads when discussing types of families.

Everyone just need to settle down and let people live their lives.

I was thinking the same thing! I'm a dual citizen of the US & Canada, but have lived in Ohio for basically my whole life. It's crazy how little the people here know about their neighbors just a few hours north!

It seems like I'm always waiting for the states to catch up So many people here use scarily flawed logic, some of which is perfectly illustrated in this thread, and are completely closed off to the notion that they might just be wrong.

 

[Dancing Fire]

My religion say I can have many wives, but the law say I can only have one on record,so is my civil rights being violated?

 

[Dancing Fire]

delete

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="msop04|

I'm still trying to figure out what your b!tching about now, Kenny... Like you said, our highest court has ruled -- IN YOUR FAVOR.
What is it going to take to make you happy... or even content?? I'm guessing you'll always have a huge chip on your shoulder, which is sad for you. I wish you the best, but I fear even that will not be sufficient. [/quote]



When he can marry his Octavia...

 

[Dancing Fire]

This discussion is pointless unless you can give an example of how someone's religious beliefs are restricting your civil liberties.

Uhm, Hello!:
Anyone home?

Elephant in the room ... gay marriage bans.

Newsflash, Kenny!!! Gay marriage bans were overturned last week!!!!!

Kenny just wanna spike the football ...

 

[kenny]

Do you have 16 minutes to watch kids react to gay marriage?
Apparently this was recorded back when gay marriage was legal in only 14 states.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJxnYgP6D8

 

[kenny]

More kids ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiFDY6N33aw

 

[azstonie]

HL is a private company, and you aren't forced to work for them or accept their benefit package -- anyone can go on the exchange. I truly have no words regarding rapists' rights in that manner... I've never heard of that. It just sounds cray to me. [/quote]when

Hobby Lobby uses public-paid and maintained roads for the transport of their goods, those roads are patrolled by public-paid security (law enforcement). Without this, there is no Hobby Lobby.

 

[azstonie]

Quoting msop: " HL is a private company..."

Hobby Lobby uses public-paid and maintained roads for the transport of their goods, those roads are patrolled by public-paid security (law enforcement). Without this, there is no Hobby Lobby.

 

[msop04]

Quoting msop: " HL is a private company..."

Hobby Lobby uses public-paid and maintained roads for the transport of their goods, those roads are patrolled by public-paid security (law enforcement). Without this, there is no Hobby Lobby.

Everyone does... that isn't really a valid argument.

 

[azstonie]

Quoting msop: " HL is a private company..."

Hobby Lobby uses public-paid and maintained roads for the transport of their goods, those roads are patrolled by public-paid security (law enforcement). Without this, there is no Hobby Lobby.

Everyone does... that isn't really a valid argument.

They utilize tax paid services and infrastructure to run their business, therefore they WILL conform to the laws of the land.

"Private."

Yep, that is as offensive now as it was 50 years ago.

 

[packrat]

Doesn't every business tho? Not even businesses, churches do too.

 

[msop04]

Quoting msop: " HL is a private company..."

Hobby Lobby uses public-paid and maintained roads for the transport of their goods, those roads are patrolled by public-paid security (law enforcement). Without this, there is no Hobby Lobby.

Everyone does... that isn't really a valid argument.

They utilize tax paid services and infrastructure to run their business, therefore they WILL conform to the laws of the land.

"Private."

Yep, that is as offensive now as it was 50 years ago.

EVERYONE uses tax paid services. People who don't even contribute to our tax dollars use them.

EVERYONE uses roads. Holding a job at HL isn't forced upon anyone. People can choose to work there just as they can choose NOT to work for another company. Country clubs and other private organizations do the same thing, but they receive goods as well via the roads.

"Private" isn't offensive... that's ridiculous. Last I checked there are many "private" organizations that no one gripes about because they are for minorities. Those who did would be accused of "bigotry", I'm sure.

 

[msop04]

Doesn't every business tho? Not even businesses, churches do too.

Yep... even those who don't contribute to those tax dollars use them. Not a valid argument at all.