ASET/idealscope images, is this one good?

[LaSuecia]

Ive recieved some images of a diamond Im interested in.
I realize its not an ideal diamond, but for my budget it fits. I think the aset and idealscope show that its aboce average but not perfect. For a price of 1700$, is it worth it?

0.7ct,J color, SI1,
Table 57
Depth 61.5
Crown 34.5
Pavilion 43

 

[proto]

Images and scopes look great to me.

 

[LaSuecia]

Images and scopes look great to me.

Thanks Proto, always aprichiate your input!
So Im not completely off about this diamond. Great!
Makes me happy cause ive searched forever for a good one

 

[LaSuecia]

ok so some sucker got to it before me...
is it possible to find out what diamond I had in mind by the info I put up here?
and then "steal" the diamond?
did I reveal too much? for future reference...☺

 

[emmebee]

It looks great!!

 

[pfunk]

ok so some sucker got to it before me...
is it possible to find out what diamond I had in mind by the info I put up here?
and then "steal" the diamond?
did I reveal too much? for future reference...☺

Someone could have used diamond search engines like the one here on pricescope and plugged in the proportions, color, clarity, and size information that you listed. That would have narrowed it down quite a bit I would think, so it is possible that it happened. In the future, if you have all of those images (magnified diamond, ASET, hearts, and idealscope) I would just post the images and look for feedback without getting into the specifications of the stone.

 

[proto]

Always a risk that someone "snipes" your diamond by reverse searching your diamond from the specs, but if I find that even though its annoying to lose your diamond, you soon find another one. Its also just as likely (if not more) that it was bought by someone who doesnt even know this forum exists.

You can usually put a hold on a diamond for a day or three before you pull the trigger, this will prevent the diamond being sold to anyone else while you consider, and you can ask the forum for views. Not sure how many diamonds you can reserve, or how often, but just use it responsibly and I expect most vendors would be happy to accommodate you.

Best of luck for continued searching!

 

[RockyRacoon]

This is likely the result of working with a virtual inventory.

You will encounter this issue often when working with an inventory that the vendor does not actually have in-house.

If the issue bothers you, stick to vendors that actually own their stones instead of a vendor that will 'try' to get it for you.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

ok so some sucker got to it before me...
is it possible to find out what diamond I had in mind by the info I put up here?
and then "steal" the diamond?
did I reveal too much? for future reference...☺

Diamonds that are coming from virtual inventory are coming from the "spot market/wholesale market" - these diamonds have buyers and sellers from all over the world. Im doubtful a PS'er was the one who distinctly went out of their way to snipe that diamond in specific.

Might be helpful to put a diamond on hold when possible (you can usually do that with virtual inventory as well).

 

[Texas Leaguer]

ok so some sucker got to it before me...
is it possible to find out what diamond I had in mind by the info I put up here?
and then "steal" the diamond?
did I reveal too much? for future reference...☺

Diamonds that are coming from virtual inventory are coming from the "spot market/wholesale market" - these diamonds have buyers and sellers from all over the world. Im doubtful a PS'er was the one who distinctly went out of their way to snipe that diamond in specific.

Might be helpful to put a diamond on hold when possible (you can usually do that with virtual inventory as well).

Sniping does happen so it pays to be conscious of that if you are posting details of a stone you are very interested in buying. But as others have said, this is one of the perils of shopping virtual inventories. Especially if you have a time frame. Availability is uncertain, delivery times are subject to a variety of delays, information about the stone is sometimes incomplete or inaccurate, stones sometimes come in with undeclared issues.

These uncertainties tend to be heightened in the case of diamonds that are priced very low relative to other similar stones in the market, which can make it particularly frustrating for a shopper.

 

[LaSuecia]

Ok thanks everyone,
Now I understand it all a bit more.
So basically if you find something, you try to reserve it, before you ask for help here will keep in mind!

Search goes on, will probably put up more asets and idelscopes.

 

[pfunk]

Ok thanks everyone,
Now I understand it all a bit more.
So basically if you find something, you try to reserve it, before you ask for help here will keep in mind!

Search goes on, will probably put up more asets and idelscopes.

Exactly. If you see one you really like, get it reserved and then seek help from the forum. Vendors or virtual inventories have working relationships with their suppliers and can find out if the stone is available and get it held for you. What TexasLeaguer stated is good to know, though I certainly wouldn't call any of those things the norm. I also wouldn't limit those things to vendors who deal in virtual inventory. Vendors who sell in house inventory can and do make mistakes with giving out misinformation as well from time to time. Aditionally, you can minimize those risks by going through vendors who have stones brought to them prior to shipping to you. They can have their gemologists inspect the stone for any misrepresentation from the supplier. There are pros and cons no matter who you purchase from, but having a good idea of how virtual inventory works helps to make sure you have a pleasant buying experience. Also, I personally think it is always a good idea to have an independent appraiser inspect any stone that you purchase, no matter where you bought it from.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Ok thanks everyone,
Now I understand it all a bit more.
So basically if you find something, you try to reserve it, before you ask for help here will keep in mind!

Search goes on, will probably put up more asets and idelscopes.

'Reserving' becomes a bit more difficult with virtual inventory. It matters which vendor you are using and what specific relationships they have with suppliers that allow them to 'reserve.'

Over the years, we have seen many 'reserved' virtual stones turn out to not be available when it comes time to purchase.

Even if you are using a vendor with an in-house inventory, it will be in your best interest to reserve before posting here.

Just be aware 'reserving' at a vendor that doesn't own its inventory is much different than 'reserving' at a vendor that physically owns the stones.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

RockyRacoon is absolutely correct - be sure to ask if the diamond is reserved with the polisher/supplier and not just on the retailers website.

 

[LaSuecia]

Since im buying online, i assume they dont keep the diamonds in house.
I have recieved another aset/idealscope of a diamond tht costs less and the images seem fine, so Im interested in you opinion.

 

[proto]

image not as good, with a small area of near total leakage on the table at 12 o'clock position.

larger areas of weak light return at 3,8,9,10 o'clock compared to the first image.

while you stated you were not necessarily after a superideal or even an ideal cut, I think you can keep searching for something a bit better unless you are under time pressure.

 

[LaSuecia]

Or this

 

[LaSuecia]

Agree with you, after looking closer, not really happy either. Skipping it. Thanks!
The last pictures are just semi good too to me, even worse than the last ones I posted....skipping, never mind them....Still trying to figure out how much leakage is too much and how much of each color is enough.
I hVe til june to find something so I will keep searching.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Ok thanks everyone,
Now I understand it all a bit more.
So basically if you find something, you try to reserve it, before you ask for help here will keep in mind!

Search goes on, will probably put up more asets and idelscopes.

Exactly. If you see one you really like, get it reserved and then seek help from the forum. Vendors or virtual inventories have working relationships with their suppliers and can find out if the stone is available and get it held for you. What TexasLeaguer stated is good to know, though I certainly wouldn't call any of those things the norm. I also wouldn't limit those things to vendors who deal in virtual inventory. Vendors who sell in house inventory can and do make mistakes with giving out misinformation as well from time to time. Aditionally, you can minimize those risks by going through vendors who have stones brought to them prior to shipping to you. They can have their gemologists inspect the stone for any misrepresentation from the supplier. There are pros and cons no matter who you purchase from, but having a good idea of how virtual inventory works helps to make sure you have a pleasant buying experience. Also, I personally think it is always a good idea to have an independent appraiser inspect any stone that you purchase, no matter where you bought it from.

I agree with this assessment and advice. I would add that it is important to understand the quality control/evaluation process on the part of the vendor of the diamonds when they are received and before they are delivered to you. Are they doing a careful gemological review? Are they confirming light performance images? What is their policy if they detect a problem?

In terms of the frequency of problems, while not the norm they are far from rare. There happens to be similar discussion going on here concurrently in another thread with more than one consumer reporting problems in availability and the reliability of putting a diamond on "hold".

Because part of our business involves working with virtual inventories, we know the challenges very well.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Since im buying online, i assume they dont keep the diamonds in house.
I have recieved another aset/idealscope of a diamond tht costs less and the images seem fine, so Im interested in you opinion.

This stone has rather heavy crown painting. This is a personal taste issue and you should read up on the topic before buying it

 

[LaSuecia]

Crown painting....reading up on it!
Im leaving all the diamonds behind me now and am on a new search...so far no luck... I can'tbelieve how much crap there is out there,even a newbie like me notices it easily. I can only imagine how hard it must be for someone who is far more taught than I am on this subject, and especially on abudget, searching for a good diamond!

 

[RockyRacoon]

Crown painting....reading up on it!
Im leaving all the diamonds behind me now and am on a new search...so far no luck... I can'tbelieve how much crap there is out there,even a newbie like me notices it easily, I can only imagine how hard it must be for someone who is far more taught than I am on this subject, and on abudget, searching for a good diamond!

You may want to work with a vendor that has stones in-house.

High Performance Diamonds, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, and Brian Gavin Diamonds are four with stellar reputations.

You will be able to work with an expert at any of these places, and you will be able to get info on stones they have in-house, not at a remote location. This will save you a lot of hassle of calling in stones, stones not being available, stones being snatched up, etc.

Best of luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Crown painting....reading up on it!
Im leaving all the diamonds behind me now and am on a new search...so far no luck... I can'tbelieve how much crap there is out there,even a newbie like me notices it easily. I can only imagine how hard it must be for someone who is far more taught than I am on this subject, and especially on abudget, searching for a good diamond!

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

To piggy-back on the fantastic link Garry has posted - this is an example of detecting painting/digging (indexing variations - these are quite obvious) when using the ASET.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

To piggy-back on the fantastic link Garry has posted - this is an example of detecting painting/digging (indexing variations - these are quite obvious) when using the ASET.

I disagree DH, an normal photo like the one at the top of thread, or an Ideal-scope image are safer because there are several proportion sets that make the upper girdle facet edges go green for totally different reasons.
Its another good reason not to demand or use ASET for rounds.

 

[LaSuecia]

Crown painting....reading up on it!
Im leaving all the diamonds behind me now and am on a new search...so far no luck... I can'tbelieve how much crap there is out there,even a newbie like me notices it easily. I can only imagine how hard it must be for someone who is far more taught than I am on this subject, and especially on abudget, searching for a good diamond!

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

Ok wow, I think I understand the concept, and on the aset, it shows as a lot of green on the edges of the diamond that go deeper twords the middle of the diamond?
On the idealscope though,is it showing off as less white at the table edges?
( sorry english isnt my native language, having hard time formulatong what I mean, hope you get it )
In the examples of the diamonds witohut any aset or idealscope, just plain diamond, I really couldn't see anything, but I have an untrained eye, so I guess I'll need to really sit down and compare to see.

 

[LaSuecia]

Oh, so I shouldnt trust the aset for a round diamond evaluation?
Idealscope is enough because aset might show wrong?
Hmm....interesting...

 

[LaSuecia]

Crown painting....reading up on it!
Im leaving all the diamonds behind me now and am on a new search...so far no luck... I can'tbelieve how much crap there is out there,even a newbie like me notices it easily, I can only imagine how hard it must be for someone who is far more taught than I am on this subject, and on abudget, searching for a good diamond!

You may want to work with a vendor that has stones in-house.

High Performance Diamonds, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, and Brian Gavin Diamonds are four with stellar reputations.

You will be able to work with an expert at any of these places, and you will be able to get info on stones they have in-house, not at a remote location. This will save you a lot of hassle of calling in stones, stones not being available, stones being snatched up, etc.

Best of luck!

I know its better, its hust not worth it because of the taxes and custom fees I'll have to pay upon recieving the diamond, and also, I'm scared that it will get lost on its way.
I'ts a long trvel for a little rock from USA to Sweden, anything can happen, and then what
I hate that the swedes aren't as into bling as USA. This really sucks when buying, because there is no such thing as seeing the diamond in the shop. Basically, theyre happy to sell you anything as long as its xxx gia, they dont want to inpect it more, cUse they think its enough. So thats why Im so relying on this forum and asking all these newbie questions
Only one place can help me with asets and idealscopes and they are very very limited with those...

 

[proto]

LaSuecia - having been in your boat of trying to buy from outside of the USA, I am sympathetic.

My summary recollection on the painting digging issue is below:
May not be 100% accurate but I am sure Garry will correct me

crown only painting (unless excessive) is fine in my eyes.
crown and pavilion painting can be bad
digging is the "bad" characteristic and effectively tries to disguise a thicker girdle without stating on the grading report. The girdle ends up as stated, but the weight distribution may not necessarily be where you think it is, so diamonds that have digging, are "hiding" weight in the girdle which you don't expect from reading the grading report.

If painting/digging occur to any significant extent, the idealscope/ASET changes and you see that the image looks "off" to what you are used to seeing. If you look at Garry's link, theres tons of images, but you can kind of see when something isnt quite normal.

Personally, I would prefer ASET to Idealscope, even for a round brilliant, but I am sure Garry is correct and has reasons for his preference. I purchased my stone based on an idealscope (no ASET), followed by inspection. Got it shipped from James Allen.

In my mind, an ASET returns more information than an idealscope. How you interpret it is up to you, but I don't think its necessary to take it to that level to buy a nicely cut diamond, unless you want to get super technical and into superideals.

The taxes I paid to ship from US to UK were:
20% import VAT for the stone
20% import VAT for the setting
2.5% handling fee on the VAT to Fedex (the courier) as they prepaid my VAT.

This was still significantly cheaper than buying from a physical store in the UK. Unsure what local prices are like in Sweden.

The stone will be insured by the vendor to you, so if it gets lost, I expect you to get a full refund minus currency conversion losses. The issue which is less known, is that trying to insure the stone if you want to return it gets trickier, as Fedex wont insure it beyond $1,000. Maybe DHL or Parcelforce etc may have different policies, I am not sure. They basically don't want to insure diamonds, but seem to have some special arrangement with jewellers, or at least with JA.

BlueNile have a UK trading arm, so you my wish to check them out. Not sure if this avoids the import taxes (cant remember if Sweden is considered in the EU for import duties) but its worth a look. If there are no import duties, I expect this to be cheaper than Swedish physical stores, although maybe not since they seem to hold no inventory, so less overheads, so less margins are needed. Bluenile UK is more expensive than BlueNile US.

My experience of BlueNile after speaking extensively to their customer support is:
They only physically hold their signature range, and these are the only ones they can get images of on request. Think this is in their vault in NY or something. Their signature range is not as good as others, IMHO as to cut precision, but you weren't after a superideal anyway.
Some of their other stones have images, but this is dependent on who holds the stones and whether they have taken images. You cant request Bluenile to get them because they don't hold them.

As such, you have a baseline to compare prices if your local vendor is able to source the same stones as Bluenile UK.

May be helpful, may not be, depending on the import tax position between UK and Sweden.

 

[LaSuecia]

LaSuecia - having been in your boat of trying to buy from outside of the USA, I am sympathetic.

My summary recollection on the painting digging issue is below:
May not be 100% accurate but I am sure Garry will correct me

crown only painting (unless excessive) is fine in my eyes.
crown and pavilion painting can be bad
digging is the "bad" characteristic and effectively tries to disguise a thicker girdle without stating on the grading report. The girdle ends up as stated, but the weight distribution may not necessarily be where you think it is, so diamonds that have digging, are "hiding" weight in the girdle which you don't expect from reading the grading report.

If painting/digging occur to any significant extent, the idealscope/ASET changes and you see that the image looks "off" to what you are used to seeing. If you look at Garry's link, theres tons of images, but you can kind of see when something isnt quite normal.

Personally, I would prefer ASET to Idealscope, even for a round brilliant, but I am sure Garry is correct and has reasons for his preference. I purchased my stone based on an idealscope (no ASET), followed by inspection. Got it shipped from James Allen.

In my mind, an ASET returns more information than an idealscope. How you interpret it is up to you, but I don't think its necessary to take it to that level to buy a nicely cut diamond, unless you want to get super technical and into superideals.

The taxes I paid to ship from US to UK were:
20% import VAT for the stone
20% import VAT for the setting
2.5% handling fee on the VAT to Fedex (the courier) as they prepaid my VAT.

This was still significantly cheaper than buying from a physical store in the UK. Unsure what local prices are like in Sweden.

The stone will be insured by the vendor to you, so if it gets lost, I expect you to get a full refund minus currency conversion losses. The issue which is less known, is that trying to insure the stone if you want to return it gets trickier, as Fedex wont insure it beyond $1,000. Maybe DHL or Parcelforce etc may have different policies, I am not sure. They basically don't want to insure diamonds, but seem to have some special arrangement with jewellers, or at least with JA.

BlueNile have a UK trading arm, so you my wish to check them out. Not sure if this avoids the import taxes (cant remember if Sweden is considered in the EU for import duties) but its worth a look. If there are no import duties, I expect this to be cheaper than Swedish physical stores, although maybe not since they seem to hold no inventory, so less overheads, so less margins are needed. Bluenile UK is more expensive than BlueNile US.

My experience of BlueNile after speaking extensively to their customer support is:
They only physically hold their signature range, and these are the only ones they can get images of on request. Think this is in their vault in NY or something. Their signature range is not as good as others, IMHO as to cut precision, but you weren't after a superideal anyway.
Some of their other stones have images, but this is dependent on who holds the stones and whether they have taken images. You cant request Bluenile to get them because they don't hold them.

As such, you have a baseline to compare prices if your local vendor is able to source the same stones as Bluenile UK.

May be helpful, may not be, depending on the import tax position between UK and Sweden.

I think I sort of understand the concept but still without the aset I see nothing, maybe that is the point, they fool you...

To order from the Uk is not a bad idea, its about 3000kr cheaper if you compare to sweden. 3000kr=ca 250£ At least in sweden thats a significant ampunt of money, to seriously concider buying from uk. If you go to a physical jewler shop, its far more expensive and no viewing of diamond before recieving.
I found a few diamonds and compared. The guy Im using is verry helpful, hes trying to get asets and idealscopes of all the diamonds I request, and Ive found some rocks in the uk a d the us he can get me too, for a slightly higher price, so now I'm flirting my way in so that he will match the uk or us price, then Ill order from him instead. Still a bit nervous about thr delivery and, if neccesary, return.