Words some people still use that most find offensive...

[missy]

OK so there is a thread started the other day where a term was used that many find offensive. I know (hope) the OP didn't mean to offend with her use of the words but she did offend some people nonetheless. It started me thinking of other words I find offensive that still some people (inadvertently and/or ignorantly) use.

I hope it is OK to start this thread as I mean it to educate all of us me included because sometimes we forget the power words have. And they do have power. The power to hurt and the power to desensitize us and we have the power to stop using them and erase them from universal vocabulary. If possible I would like for us to have a constructive debate/thread about this issue.

I'll start. I find one of the most offensive words people still use is the word "retarded". It is hurtful, wrong and mean. There are so many better words one can use and I would love for people to stop using the word. I work with the ID (intellectually disabled) population and they are so amazing so wonderful and many understand that the word "retarded" is used in a derogatory manner and it hurts.

Another word that I cannot believe is still in use and whenever I hear someone using it I want to cry and also educate them is the word "Oriental" when describing people of Asian descent. Really? It is so offensive and ignorant.

Another antiquated and very offensive word still used is the word "colored" when referring to African Americans. Yes I hear people still using this word and I would like this and other derogatory words gone. And then there is the other word referring to black people that is quite upsetting but I know that most don't use it anymore though some do to take away its power. That is a whole other debate.

Does anybody have any other words they find upsetting and offensive that some people still use?

 

[missy]

Also I would like to find out what words I might be using that might be offensive to some. For example what is preferable might and will differ depending on the individual. What is preferable to that specific individual vs another. I know some people prefer the word Black over African American. Most of my friends prefer the word Black over African American so obviously it depends.

 

[Siameseroo]

I also hate it when the word 'Oriental' is used to describe Asian people... So cringeworthy! Likewise, when anyone of Asian appearance is deemed to be Chinese!

 

[dk168]

I use "oriental" to describe myself, and do not see it as an issue.

C*** word makes me cringe whenever I hear it.

DK

 

[rainydaze]

Missy, what a classy way to address this concern! I have all the more respect for you.

Regardless of whether or not a word or phrase is widely used, or part of pop culture (i.e. validified via the Urban Dictionary), one still has the choice to use it or not. The choices we make say something about who we are.

I didn’t respond in the other thread because of the term that was used. I see no need to use terms that are specific and offensive to populations such as the very ones you have brought up here, and the one used in the other thread. I become very uncomfortable when the very words you pointed out are used. I had to sit through my FIL’s story involving an ‘oriental’ person this Easter. His intent, believe it or not, is to *be* considerate, so I haven’t worked out how to approach him about it.

The words beginning with ‘c’ and ‘p’ that refer to a woman’s anatomy make me cringe. I don’t care for ‘tramp stamp’ because I think that classifying a gal that way is yet another example of being thoughtlessly narrow-minded.

 

[AGBF]

I hope you don't mind a threadjack this early in the thread. I love threads about words and I take language seriously. I don't want to make this thread into something silly, but I couldn't help but recall what was, to me, a very funny incident from when I was teaching a few years back.

My daughter, whom some of you know has mental health problems, was in high school. We were living in Virginia at the time and I thought she might benefit from a smaller, private school. I ended up driving her to Silver Spring, Maryland every morning (a long drive) to attend a tiny school. The school offered me a job, which spared me three hours on the road each day as well as a break on tuition, so I took it.

I had once, in my youth, taught high school history. (I have an MA in History.) But at the school in Maryland I was the 5th grade homeroom teacher; I taught 5th grade English; 7th grade English; 8th grade English; and French! I had never taught such young children before. I was shocked by many things that had changed since I had last taught. For example, I wrote on the blackboard in script and found that my students couldn't read what I had written. When I taught in the 1970's and 1980's everyone read script. I almost always write in script.

I was also shocked at the words they used casually like "suck". I had to tell them that "suck" was an inappropriate word and that they shouldn't use it in the classroom. They actually did not know this. They were not trying to flout authority. They were ignorant.

One day I walked into the classroom where I taught French and found the blackboard filled with a list that said "Words Mrs. AGBF Doesn't Like".

Listed beneath that header were all the words I had ever banned from my classrooms...including, of course, "suck". It was quite a list of naughty words and I could only hope that an administrator did not choose that moment to walk by my classroom. But my students were beaming. They thought they had completed a wonderful project as a tribute to me by compiling all the words I didn't like in one place. What could I say?

Deb/AGBF


This is a great topic, missy. I will be contributing to it!

 

[Circe]

Deb, that is AWESOME.

FWIW, I had a similar moment the other day when I was talking to a friend about how we had to curb our tongues around our kids, lest they call their little friends some of the names we employed for people we didn't like on occasion (in our defense, we were talking about the recent ruling on so-called "revenge ****"), and she said, "Yeah! They should be using age-appropriate insults! When I was that age, I'd call people 'jerkwad," or "scumbag," or ...."

You could SEE her face change as she thought about the probable etymology for those terms with her adult brain, as opposed to through her memories of childhood. D'oh.

Agree about the words already employed here: I'll add that it's probably not a good idea to use any race stereotyped as cheap, stingy, or dishonest as a modern-day synonym for losing money. Don't call someone an Indian-giver, don't say they Welshed, Jewed, or Gypp'd you out of cash, etc., etc. I am 90% sure most of the people I've heard use those phrases have never thought of Native Americans, Wales, the Rom, or Israel when using those phrases, and yet ....

 

[OreoRosies86]

Another vote for "retarded", and I bristle when I hear young girls calling each other whores, sluts, bitches. Where are they learning this and why isn't anyone telling them how idiotic it is?!

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I think most offensive words are actually used in ignorance and not malice. Like Circe said, we often don't realize the origin of words and we are shocked when we do. In that spirit, I find it most helpful to explain, not to hit the person on the head or treat them as bigots or what have you.

It is also curious how our own culture or subculture influences how we react to words. For example, I have no reaction to Oriental. Why? In Portuguese, we use Occidental to describe Europe/North America just as often or even as synonyms to East/West (Occidental Germany and Oriental Germany).

 

[TooPatient]

Great topic Missy!

I heard a bunch from one set of my grandparents and my father. Nothing I would ever care to repeat

Any of the slang terms for races, religions, etc are just awful.


That said, (and please keep in mind I am NOT in any way advocating the use of offensive terms) it has gotten difficult to know what words TO use. I don't ever want to make anyone uncomfortable so I'm always avoiding any use of any term to describe any of these. For example -- "A" was in tutoring. She has a friend who also attends the center. I mentioned this to the guy who owns the place and he asked who. I couldn't remember the name so was describing her as best I could without ever going near the fact that her family is from somewhere in Asia...
Thing is, I feel like ignoring and not stating something like that is also an insult. Almost like it is something to not say as it is not as good as something else. (Which is clearly not true and not at all my intention!)

Would love to know how people decide what to use in addition to what not to use.

 

[partgypsy]

OK so there is a thread started the other day where a term was used that many find offensive. I know (hope) the OP didn't mean to offend with her use of the words but she did offend some people nonetheless. It started me thinking of other words I find offensive that still some people (inadvertently and/or ignorantly) use.

I hope it is OK to start this thread as I mean it to educate all of us me included because sometimes we forget the power words have. And they do have power. The power to hurt and the power to desensitize us and we have the power to stop using them and erase them from universal vocabulary. If possible I would like for us to have a constructive debate/thread about this issue.

I'll start. I find one of the most offensive words people still use is the word "retarded". It is hurtful, wrong and mean. There are so many better words one can use and I would love for people to stop using the word. I work with the ID (intellectually disabled) population and they are so amazing so wonderful and many understand that the word "retarded" is used in a derogatory manner and it hurts.

Another word that I cannot believe is still in use and whenever I hear someone using it I want to cry and also educate them is the word "Oriental" when describing people of Asian descent. Really? It is so offensive and ignorant.

Another antiquated and very offensive word still used is the word "colored" when referring to African Americans. Yes I hear people still using this word and I would like this and other derogatory words gone. And then there is the other word referring to black people that is quite upsetting but I know that most don't use it anymore though some do to take away its power. That is a whole other debate.

Does anybody have any other words they find upsetting and offensive that some people still use?

Interesting. I work in VA research, and so am constantly asking study participants demographic questions. It seems like the vast majority of African Americans prefer the term "Black". Some will even say, "I'm not from Africa, I'm not African American, I'm Black". But not all. An elderly gentleman referred to himself as colored, for when he was growing up that was the preferred more evolved term for whatever was being used before that term. So I would say, a term being objectional can vary across individuals and also over time.

I do know when I was younger I used the word "retarded" to describe situations that I thought were stupid or backward "i.e. the way they are collecting tickets is retarded", the term "gay" in a similar manner, never really thinking of them ascribing to people, just in a more general meaning, like the word "stupid". Obviously I refrain from using those terms, but at least to my recollection I never used them maliciously or realized they were hurtful. Anyways you might want to assume ignorance before malice.

 

[Arcadian]

I do get offended by the term African American. I'm NOT from Africa, was not born there, and there are Africans of every hue (including white) that are Americans. I'm chocolate cocoa brown, thank you very much, and I prefer that term

Sans that, black is fine. Negro is fine (though people do get offended by it), colored is also fine, though again, I don't get offended by it (and it does depend on your age and where you grew up). but admittedly, I've been called way worse. When it comes to race, some of what people may find offensive is generational, and/or regional.

There's also people people of color who don't even fit the moniker in anyway shape or form (british people, island people, etc).

 

[amc80]

I was trying to think of words I find offensive, but there really aren't any. There are a lot of words I find rude or inappropriate, but not offensive. They are just words. But I'm also pretty much the least PC person around, so maybe that's why.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Missy,

What was the thread? I haven't read a lot of them recently, but of the discussions I have read, I didn't notice anything. You said the poster offended people, but I haven't seen any discussion of that? Do people discuss posters off-line? I'm not part of that, so I wouldn't know.

I'm generally very careful in the language I use, as I would really hate to hurt anyone's feelings. I think "retarded" is now off-limits, and if you think about it, so should "idiot" be. It doesn't make sense for "retarded" to be off-limits but not "idiot."

I think calling someone a devil or saying that something is devilish should also be off-limits in a world where we can't say Happy Christmas. The devil is a religious entity.

I think of Oriental as a term that older people use, so it's not a terms that I've ever used myself, but I didn't know it was offensive. I literally thought it was a romantic-sounding older geographical term, as in The Orient. I've made a note to myself never to use it. I guess they'll have to rename the Orient Express!

I also didn't know that gypped was offensive, although again it's not a term I use. It's not a term you come across very often in writing, so I didn't make the connection with the Roma. But now I know where it comes from, I definitely won't use it.

I find that older people, older than 80, use certain terms, but it's the world they grew up in. Elderly people I know who are not in the slightest bit prejudiced say many of the things in this thread. I heard an 80-year-old the other day say that a store owner tried to "Jew me down"!!! Myself and my friend nearly melted into a puddle of embarrassment and indignation! We did tell her that you can't use those terms these days. That age group also tends to use "colored", "Oriental" and other terms in this thread.

I always say African American as that seem to be acceptable to most. I'd never say "black" or anything else unless I knew a person was fine with "black." I think many people find it offensive? My friend refers to herself as a woman of color. I'm not clear if "person of color" or "African American" is the more acceptable. It does seem odd that "person of color" is OK but not "colored person." Also, I don't think the NAACP has changed its name. But anyway, I stick to African American as that seems least likely to cause offense - but if "people of color" is the preferred term, or black is preferred, I would use that.

I'm always a little surprised that "gay" is so acceptable where so many other slang words are seen as offensive. I would have thought that the proper word, homosexual, would be preferable - but perhaps that word has been taken over by "homo" which I think has negative connotations.

Linguistic politics are very complex, and while I agree that certain terms should be avoided, there can also be a nastiness/bullying about linguistic politics where someone uses the word "colored" or "Oriental" - and then gets fired from their job and loses their livelihood. We can go way too far in policing language, although outdated terms should obviously not be used. Like DK, I literally had no idea that "Orient" meant anything but geography. Edit: But I can see that it's outdated, and terms identifying people by geographical labels are probably also outdated. I think Pom (British), Yank, and Kiwi (NZ) are also seen as offensive by some? And when you think of the thousands of insults toward the female gender and toward older people (no one seems to care as much about ageism as other prejudices) - well, we could go on and on. I think a lot of offense could be avoided by not using slang. I've never liked slang much. Sometimes the words become so far removed from the object they describe that the association becomes really tenuous.

 

[Jambalaya]

I found a great explanation of why we shouldn't use the terms "East" and "Far East" in this link, and also about not using the term "Orient." http://aboutjapan.japansociety.org/content.cfm/whats_the_matter_with_saying_the_orient

Off-topic but related to this link, why don't people use paragraphs frequently enough anymore? As in this link, large blocks of text with no break are very hard on the eye. On the internet, when I see that someone has written a long block of text with no paragraphs I don't attempt to read it anymore. Not using paragraphs is kind of bad manners! Expecting the reader to wade through long blocks of text - I don't do it anymore. As a result, I had to skim much of the discussion in the link, but I got the key points. It's quite detailed.

And I agree with Deb - "suck" is a horrid expression.

 

[VRBeauty]

An interesting discussion! Thanks for starting it, Missy.

I'm of Chinese descent and I had no idea some people consider "Oriental" to be offensive. May I ask why? To me it's a reference to the far east, the Orient... and referring to someone as Oriental is no more offensive (or for that matter, useful) than referring to someone as "a Westerner."

I loved your story, Deb! It raised an interesting point re the word "sucks." I suspect you and I have the same concept re the origin of that word (or term), which is basically sexual in nature. However, it's now in widespread usage and many people, especially I suspect, younger people, have no idea of its origins... they are in no way connecting the word to an act. And this word, alone, disconnected from its origins has become very useful for lamenting and empathizing with particularly bad situations. Perhaps it's better in some cases, like this one, to the origins of the word to fade into memory while retaining the word?

I think to some extent it's a balancing act. Words do have power, but we there are also times when we give words power that they wouldn't otherwise have.

And in the vein of "words have power," so does word choice. Had this thread used a more neutral title, such as "Words Some People Use that Others Find Offensive," it might have invited a more free-ranging discussion. Just sayin'.

BTW the use of "retarded" and in various forms sets my teeth on edge. I've seen seemingly well-informed people of all political stripes use in political discourse, in terms such as dem-tards or tea-tards. When I see this in an otherwise civilized on-line conversation I'll comment... usually something along the lines of your using this term detracts from your argument. If any wants to offer a pithy, one-size-fits-all phrase that can be used in these situations, I'm all ears.

 

[Jambalaya]

Like you, VRBeauty, I was assuming that "sucks" is related to a sexual act....but maybe not. Perhaps it's related to the act of sucking on a lemon which is very sour and generally an unpleasant thing. Wasn't "go suck a lemon" an insult once? So perhaps to say that something sucks is related to something being as unpleasant as sucking on a lemon. And if so, then we just have filthy minds!

 

[momhappy]

Hi Missy,

What was the thread? I haven't read a lot of them recently, but of the discussions I have read, I didn't notice anything. You said the poster offended people, but I haven't seen any discussion of that? Do people discuss posters off-line? I'm not part of that, so I wouldn't know.

I'm generally very careful in the language I use, as I would really hate to hurt anyone's feelings. I think "retarded" is now off-limits, and if you think about it, so should "idiot" be. It doesn't make sense for "retarded" to be off-limits but not "idiot."

I think calling someone a devil or saying that something is devilish should also be off-limits in a world where we can't say Happy Christmas. The devil is a religious entity.

I think of Oriental as a term that older people use, so it's not a terms that I've ever used myself, but I didn't know it was offensive. I literally thought it was a romantic-sounding older geographical term, as in The Orient. I've made a note to myself never to use it. I guess they'll have to rename the Orient Express!

I also didn't know that gypped was offensive, although again it's not a term I use. It's not a term you come across very often in writing, so I didn't make the connection with the Roma. But now I know where it comes from, I definitely won't use it.

I find that older people, older than 80, use certain terms, but it's the world they grew up in. Elderly people I know who are not in the slightest bit prejudiced say many of the things in this thread. I heard an 80-year-old the other day say that a store owner tried to "Jew me down"!!! Myself and my friend nearly melted into a puddle of embarrassment and indignation! We did tell her that you can't use those terms these days. That age group also tends to use "colored", "Oriental" and other terms in this thread.

I always say African American as that seem to be acceptable to most. I'd never say "black" or anything else unless I knew a person was fine with "black." I think many people find it offensive? My friend refers to herself as a woman of color. I'm not clear if "person of color" or "African American" is the more acceptable. It does seem odd that "person of color" is OK but not "colored person." Also, I don't think the NAACP has changed its name. But anyway, I stick to African American as that seems least likely to cause offense - but if "people of color" is the preferred term, or black is preferred, I would use that.

I'm always a little surprised that "gay" is so acceptable where so many other slang words are seen as offensive. I would have thought that the proper word, homosexual, would be preferable - but perhaps that word has been taken over by "homo" which I think has negative connotations.

Linguistic politics are very complex, and while I agree that certain terms should be avoided, there can also be a nastiness/bullying about linguistic politics where someone uses the word "colored" or "Oriental" - and then gets fired from their job and loses their livelihood. We can go way too far in policing language, although outdated terms should obviously not be used. Like DK, I literally had no idea that "Orient" meant anything but geography. Edit: But I can see that it's outdated, and terms identifying people by geographical labels are probably also outdated. I think Pom (British), Yank, and Kiwi (NZ) are also seen as offensive by some? And when you think of the thousands of insults toward the female gender and toward older people (no one seems to care as much about ageism as other prejudices) - well, we could go on and on. I think a lot of offense could be avoided by not using slang. I've never liked slang much. Sometimes the words become so far removed from the object they describe that the association becomes really tenuous.

Hi Jambalaya! I believe the thread was mine. It was a thread about finding white tank tops and I used a term that is commonly used when referring to that particular style of tank top. Since others have found it offensive, I will refrain from posting the term here, but feel free to read the other thread.
Also, missy, no, I did not intentionally set out to offend people in my thread. I am aware that the term can be considered offensive, but I often take into consideration the context in which things are being said. In this case, the context was fashion and while that still might not make it okay, it was not said with malicious intent.

 

[VRBeauty]

Like you, VRBeauty, I was assuming that "sucks" is related to a sexual act....but maybe not. Perhaps it's related to the act of sucking on a lemon which is very sour and generally an unpleasant thing. Wasn't "go suck a lemon" an insult once? So perhaps to say that something sucks is related to something being as unpleasant as sucking on a lemon. And if so, then we just have filthy minds!

Another interpretation could be have to do with (appropriately ) naiveté, since it's young things that suck at their mothers' teats.

However, the word progression I recall is that "you suck," as a put-down, preceded the popularity of "sucks" as a general adjective - and "you suck" had nothing to do with lemons!

 

[canuk-gal]

Like you, VRBeauty, I was assuming that "sucks" is related to a sexual act....but maybe not. Perhaps it's related to the act of sucking on a lemon which is very sour and generally an unpleasant thing. Wasn't "go suck a lemon" an insult once?

As babies are always sucking, in context stating "you suck" could mean that you are behaving in a juvenile or infantile manner.

cheers--Sharon

 

[momhappy]

I believe that the term "suck/you suck" etc. does have a sexual context - referring to a particular sex act in a negative manner (I think it was actually recorded as such in the late 20's).
I think that it could also tie in with the term "sucker" - referring to someone as naive, etc.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Momhappy, I've read your thread now. I didn't click on it initially because I'm about the least fashionable person I know, so had no advice for you!

The thread is a good example of linguistic bullying though. It's unfortunate when a person says something quite innocently and then is raked over the coals, obviously then making them feel defensive as a result.

You're not the only one. A few months ago VL was in dire straits and posted about his troubles, and I was very concerned for him. It was late and I was cutting corners in my writing, and I meant to say that he was being tested by circumstance. But I cut it short as I was being a little lazy, and tired, and just wrote that he was being tested. As a result of that, Kenny started a thread specifically to attack me, calling me all manner of things, because he thought I was being religious! (I immediately apologized, even though it was hard to imagine I'd done anything wrong. The thread was deleted.) I'm not religious at all, and I meant that VL was being tested by circumstances beyond his control! Never in my wildest dreams could I have ever predicted that being tested had religious connotations. I literally had no idea what he was talking about. I was completely floored. I mean, wouldn't you have to be a deeply religious person to see a religious meaning in that? I'm not religious so I saw none. And the irony is that I'm a liberal person who believes in human rights, and gay rights - I give money each month to the Human Rights campaign - and deplores prejudice of any kind, yet he made me feel like some kind of preachy far-right narrow-minded person! I still can't believe he started a special thread to attack me over nothing.

In the workplace, linguistic politics can sometimes be another tool in a bully's arsenal, and that's when linguistic politics can have seriously nasty consequences.

 

[Jambalaya]

Well, whatever its origins, I do find "suck" to be a vulgar term. It's slang, which I don't use that much, and I also associate it with younger people.

 

[Jambalaya]

While I absolutely agree that some terms are really offensive and should not be used, policing language can be very controlling in an Orwellian sort of way. Big Brother is listening to us! Singling out people who were probably acting in all innocence and making them look bad is wrong, in my view. If a person is genuinely concerned about language of another, they would have a quiet word with the person and not embarrass them in front of others where it's quite possible the person was not intentionally being offensive.

 

[House Cat]

I've said before that I have bipolar disorder, Type I and c-PTSD. What I haven't said is how severe it has been for me in the past. I am permanently disabled because of it. I have had 23 rounds of ECT (shock treatment.) I have been psychotic. I have been hospitalized a few times.

While hospitalized, I tend to bond with the people who are severely ill. There was the woman who was about 80 years old who's dementia was so bad and so dark that she thought she had killed over 50 people. She told me that the police would be coming for her at any moment. There was a woman who had schizophrenia. She was off her meds for enough of a time to be completely psychotic. She thought that Michael Jackson had stolen her material. Everyone was afraid of her, but I wasn't. Because of that, she always held my hand in group. There was also the other psychotic man whom everyone was afraid of because he yelled every once in a while. I treated him like he was a suffering human being, so he liked me and sat by me often. There were girls with eating disorders who were so thin that you could see the bone structure of their skulls. They were fighting for their lives. Then again, we all were. But none of this prepared me for the ICU. I had to hot pack my arms for anesthesia for each ECT treatment because I have bad veins. They had me sit in the ICU to do this. There were people strapped to beds on 24 hour watch and by the tv was a group of people pacing in a circle round the TV like zombies. They paced because of a side effect from their meds called akathisia. This is where they hurt unless they move.

It is this very human experience that makes me completely intolerant to any stigma toward the mentally ill. Calling someone "psycho" or "crazy" is minimizing what is happening to these people. When someone goes psychotic, there is a good chance that they will lose everything. I used to be a part of a message board like this for people with mental illness. Many times when a spouse would go psychotic, the other spouse found that fact overwhelming, would try to hold on for a while, but would eventually divorce. Not that the psychosis was a permanent condition, but the mental illness was. People who have less than a marriage and go psychotic lose jobs, family, custody of children, houses and most of all faith in themselves. Trusting in your gut?? Nope, never again. Trust in your own judgment? Probably not for a very long time. So, to make light of "psycho" is just too much for me because it is making fun of losing everything, especially the self. On a personal note, I have been recovering from my episode for 11 years now and I STILL have a very long way to go and I work VERY hard at it. I didn't lose my loved ones and had a lot of support, I can't imagine what it would be like for those who don't have what I have.

When mental illness is made fun of and stigmatized, it keeps people from seeking help. When people with mental illness don't seek help, suicide is a possibility.

Making fun of the homeless is another thing that I can't abide, considering most of them are suffering mental illness of some kind.

Saying that you're OCD because you like your house clean is one that is really upsetting. OCD is such a debilitating illness. The sufferers are prisoners of their own thoughts. I get a taste of this every once in a while because people with bipolar disorder have obsessive and unwanted thoughts, especially if trauma is involved. My last stint with this symptom involved me being petrified that there would be a school shooting at my son's school. I could hardly drop him off at school. Each day, I would circle his school in my car and pray. Then I would come home, sit at the kitchen table petrified, wringing my hands until it was time to pick him up. These thoughts overwhelmed me, took over my life for months! If I had OCD, I would be more ritualistic in my soothing.

So, I realize that I have been very long winded. I'm sorry for that. I will sign off now.

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm so sorry for your troubles, House Cat. The illness sounds very challenging indeed.

I completely understand how you would have problems with certain language regarding the mentally ill. However, maybe it would help to reflect that the majority of people have no idea - absolutely no idea - about what you are describing or how bad mental illness can be. Therefore, in most cases, people would not know how hurtful they are being. Sure, there are some people out there who really are that nasty, but most would not intentionally hurt someone who was ill. It's just that they don't know.

 

[NKOTB]

Housecat, I enjoyed your thoughtful post. I did some training several years ago on working with people with dementia, and the message that stuck with me was that regardless of whether or not someone's perceptions are based in what I'll call "mainstream reality", what they are experiencing is very real to them, and their feelings are real.

 

[telephone89]

Story time! I grew up in a very culturally diverse area. I am white, but now live with my long time brown partner. Where I live, brown is a blanket term for middle eastern heritage, ie pakistan, afghanistan, india, etc, but I understand in some parts of the states it comes to mean more latin heritage (mexican, south america, etc). Anyways, some people who aren't from our little pocket of the world are offended when he/I call other people of similar heritage brown, because they think this is offensive. He explains that it is just a general blanket term, and nothing else really fits him. He was born in Canada, his family born in Africa, but somewhere along the lines they are from India. So he is of Indian heritage, but would never consider him self Indian, or even african as his parents consider themselves.

Also related, I was telling his mother something and had said something about an 'asian' person. She got upset and said THAT was offensive, because 'asian' refers to a continent, and technically, Indians are asian. So she suggested I call them orientals instead LOL. No thanks. While some people might not consider it offensive, where I live and grew up and the asians/orientals I associate with, they do not appreciate this term. I think it just sounds too old fashioned, and we picture some old white hick farmer "talkin' bout them damned orientals" sort of thing!

I also have friends who are black, but jamaican black. They do not like being called african american (african canadian?), because they dont consider themselves african.

But then I used to work with a gal who was half black and half white, but looked more black than white. She would get offended when people called her black. It's not like they knew she was only half.

It's an interesting dynamic. What to say and how to least offend people.

ETA- Its just getting more complicated with all the half/mixed raced kids around. For example, in my immediate group, at least half are interracial and have mixed race children. They are probably the cutest kids ever, but I can see how it causes problems when they don't fit into boxes that people have in their minds.

 

[EvangelineG]

It is this very human experience that makes me completely intolerant to any stigma toward the mentally ill. Calling someone "psycho" or "crazy" is minimizing what is happening to these people. When someone goes psychotic, there is a good chance that they will lose everything. I used to be a part of a message board like this for people with mental illness. Many times when a spouse would go psychotic, the other spouse found that fact overwhelming, would try to hold on for a while, but would eventually divorce. Not that the psychosis was a permanent condition, but the mental illness was. People who have less than a marriage and go psychotic lose jobs, family, custody of children, houses and most of all faith in themselves. Trusting in your gut?? Nope, never again. Trust in your own judgment? Probably not for a very long time. So, to make light of "psycho" is just too much for me because it is making fun of losing everything, especially the self. On a personal note, I have been recovering from my episode for 11 years now and I STILL have a very long way to go and I work VERY hard at it. I didn't lose my loved ones and had a lot of support, I can't imagine what it would be like for those who don't have what I have.

When mental illness is made fun of and stigmatized, it keeps people from seeking help. When people with mental illness don't seek help, suicide is a possibility.

Making fun of the homeless is another thing that I can't abide, considering most of them are suffering mental illness of some kind.

Saying that you're OCD because you like your house clean is one that is really upsetting. OCD is such a debilitating illness. The sufferers are prisoners of their own thoughts. I get a taste of this every once in a while because people with bipolar disorder have obsessive and unwanted thoughts, especially if trauma is involved. My last stint with this symptom involved me being petrified that there would be a school shooting at my son's school. I could hardly drop him off at school. Each day, I would circle his school in my car and pray. Then I would come home, sit at the kitchen table petrified, wringing my hands until it was time to pick him up. These thoughts overwhelmed me, took over my life for months! If I had OCD, I would be more ritualistic in my soothing.

This was so very, very well said.

I would also like to add using the term autistic or aspie as the newest form of "retarded" or "psycho". Or using either term to off handedly describe a neuro-typical person's mild social struggles/lack of emotion/quirkiness. Not cool.

 

[Jambalaya]

See, that's the thing - you can't tell someone's heritage or what they prefer to be called, unless you know that person. I can see that someone who grew up in Jamaica wouldn't like the term African American (or would it be African Caribbean?)

I also didn't know that the word "Asian" is disliked by some. I thought it was just meant to denote a continent, like saying that someone is European.

I wonder if it's more correct and less offensive to describe someone being "of African heritage" or "of Asian heritage"? Because the truth is that heritage does dictate the way we look. I look Northern European because I'm of Northern European heritage.

I really hate hurting people's feelings because I know what it's like to feel hurt and excluded. If there is some way of saying these things that would not offend anyone, I'd love to know what it is. That's why I thought saying "of X heritage" might be acceptable. Surely it's more correct to describe someone who was born in Canada and considers himself to be completely Canadian to be "Canadian of African heritage" than African Canadian (if they do indeed have African heritage.) Edit: At least, in cases where you need any description, like the myriad of forms where they ask you to describe your race.

Tying myself in knots here. I would hate to think that I had offended anyone, ever, in racial terms, but different people have widely differing preferences as can be seen in this thread, so how do you not hurt anyone's feelings? I would never have thought it acceptable to call someone "brown", for example, but according to this thread some people are OK with it. But who is, and who isn't?

I just never want to hurt anyone and I'd really love some guidelines.