3 Cushion Video Review - Opinions Please!

[Photoplex]

To the OP: I don't know much about cushions, but it sounds like you have a good eye for them, and I'm sure you'll make a lovely choice. Good luck!

Thank you!

 

[Photoplex]

I was the "qualified gemologist" who said " a FL stone won't be FL for long" and I'd like to apologize. I'm sorry photoplex my intention was never to scare you. What I meant to say, and should have said was, "FL stones are a marvel of what man and natural can do. They are as the word suggests, FLAWLESS ( in regards to clarity). They are also rare and because of that you will be paying a premium for it, while running the risk of damaging the stone and having it lose value". Though I do have quite a bit of experience as a gemologist, I have less experience dealing with customers, especially the impatient ones that ask for advice in a field they know little of and yet dismiss my advice before even given a chance to explain it... ... Hence my "a FL stone won't be FL for long" comment. It was brash of me. I'll definitely try to improve on my customer service and gemological skills. I'm sure I could learn a thing or two from many veterans here. If you every have any other questions, I'd really appreciate the chance to help you in the search for your perfect stone. You know where to find me.

I will not reply to the comment of me saying "why buy a FL" since that was taken out of context. I very well know that every person has their preferences and since I will not be the one living with whatever purchase that person makes, I will not deter anyone from getting whatever it is they want. I will however try and educate them on their purchase to make sure that they 1) know what they want and 2) get exactly what they want.

My advice would be to get the 1.73 since your preference is towards square cushions. And don't worry, it's a vs1, so unless it mistakenly takes a trip down the garbage disposal, i'm pretty sure it'll stay a vs1 for a very long time.

And now for you, the sarcastic one so evidently lacking in people skills and really helping to improve the already poor general impression of Enchanted Diamonds here at PS.

I came to you asking about a cushion, because it was a size and performance I was interested in. As I told you numerous times during our conversation, I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT IT BEING A FLAWLESS DIAMOND. My parameters were, as I told you, I or better, SI1 or better, and it had to be a decent performing stone. I then told you I checked your ENTIRE INVENTORY, and you had ONLY ONE a single stone that matched my parameters, with a decent ASET. The fact that it just happened to be FL was a bonus I wasn't expecting or looking for.

So, the stone I was interested in was a a 1.6 I-IF for approx $8k. What was your alternative suggestion? A 1.7ct F-VS2 for $14,000. And it had a HORRIFIC ASET image. It was like looking at a football field. Seriously - how did you get from a 1.6 I-FL with a fantastic ASET at $8k, to a garbage stone almost twice its price?

And your justification? "FL won't stay FL for long! It will chip!". So, F-VS2 stones don't chip? That extra colour helps make it stronger does it? If it's going to chip, it doesn't matter what the clarity is - it's a damned chipped stone. I would still need to get it repaired or recut. Your next argument was "Hah! If getting stones recut was such a big thing, there would be far more polishers in the industry". Like, seriously - did you learn customer service in a prison?

The issue here is your complete and utter lack of understanding of interpreting customers wants and needs, and instead shoving your own evidently flawed opinions down peoples throats. You are obviously so "case hardened" against customers coming in thinking they must buy an FL diamond, that you jumped down my throat without listening to my repeated protestations that I DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE FL CLARITY.

With setting, I'm looking to spend in the neighbourhood of $20k USD, not a dime of which will be going to disEnchanted Diamonds.

 

[inclusionking]

Photoplex, we could argue all day and all night about how I think you were the “know-it-all customer” who demanded help while you claim I was the jaded representative who wouldn't listen. The classic he said, she said… so let's not.

This forum is meant to help people discuss diamonds so they can make a confident, informed diamond purchase- and that is what I hope to assist with. I am making it my personal mission to help you find the perfect stone for you, from whatever supplier! Please post any questions you might have and I will give you my best advice. Then you and everyone else here can scrutinize and do with it as you wish.

I look forward to helping you or others like you in your diamond quest and I am sorry that I have ruined E.D.'s image in your eyes. Please don't let this one bad customer service experience with me reflect on the company as a whole. All of my teammates are genuine people that work hard to provide a great service and honestly... i'm not as unfriendly as you think I am.

 

[inclusionking]

Hi,


I just want to point out that what the gemologist said, could be said about any grade of stone. In the diamond world you are always paying a premium over the grades below what you buy. If any diamond becomes damaged scratched. chipped, it may lose many grades.

On pricescope usually going down in clarity and color is just a means to meet a budget. Often it is suggested to go down in clarity., But in this case there was no such consideration. I would love a flawless diamond, to me it would be the pinnacle of diamond buying.Ane I am not Asian.

Mr. Gemologist, you did right coming on here to apologize. Its a shame your bosses don't understand this concept. But please. all diamonds would be downgraded if damaged.

Annette

Yes, Annette,it is true that any stone from Flawless to I3, can get chipped. And they all do. The difference is that in high clarity stones such as FL, VVS1, VVS2 and even VS1, the chance of new damage lowering the clarity is very high, while with stones in the lower clarity ranges, such as VS2 or lower, a newly incurred vs1 chip, for example, will not decrease the value of the stone because the clarity grade is based on something else altogether, let's say a vs2 crystal. And that is why there is no real need to recut the stone, all you'd end up doing by recutting the stone to fix the not important chip would be lowering it's value by lowering it's ct weight.

Many stones out there have small vvs sized chips. The regular everyday wear chips that people make on their diamonds, are honestly no big deal.

The chance of you incurring an VS2 clarity chip, or lower, is very low. You’d have to literally decide to try and destroy the diamond for you to have a chance of making a VS2 clarity chip. Remember diamonds are a 10 in the MOHS hardness scale with sapphires being a distant 9.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Hi,


I just want to point out that what the gemologist said, could be said about any grade of stone. In the diamond world you are always paying a premium over the grades below what you buy. If any diamond becomes damaged scratched. chipped, it may lose many grades.

On pricescope usually going down in clarity and color is just a means to meet a budget. Often it is suggested to go down in clarity., But in this case there was no such consideration. I would love a flawless diamond, to me it would be the pinnacle of diamond buying.Ane I am not Asian.

Mr. Gemologist, you did right coming on here to apologize. Its a shame your bosses don't understand this concept. But please. all diamonds would be downgraded if damaged.

Annette

Yes, Annette,it is true that any stone from Flawless to I3, can get chipped. And they all do. The difference is that in high clarity stones such as FL, VVS1, VVS2 and even VS1, the chance of new damage lowering the clarity is very high, while with stones in the lower clarity ranges, such as VS2 or lower, a newly incurred vs1 chip, for example, will not decrease the value of the stone because the clarity grade is based on something else altogether, let's say a vs2 crystal. And that is why there is no real need to recut the stone, all you'd end up doing by recutting the stone to fix the not important chip would be lowering it's value by lowering it's ct weight.

Many stones out there have small vvs sized chips. The regular everyday wear chips that people make on their diamonds, are honestly no big deal.

The chance of you incurring an VS2 clarity chip, or lower, is very low. You’d have to literally decide to try and destroy the diamond for you to have a chance of making a VS2 clarity chip. Remember diamonds are a 10 in the MOHS hardness scale with sapphires being a distant 9.

I am not sure what to make of some of the statements above. For instance, not all diamonds get chipped. And the chance of new damage lowering clarity is generally not very high at all.

I will share our experience which may put some of this in perspective. We have been doing trade-ups for 15 years, most of which are engagement rings that are worn every single day. Our only stipulation is that for 100% trade-in value the original diamond be returned in original condition. So the process involves sending the stone back to the lab to have it re-certified. In almost every case the diamond is found to be in original condition. In rare cases, a small chip or scratch is found, issues that are fixed with minor repolishing and minimal weight loss. Although it is possible, I cannot remember a case where the damage in a trade-up stone resulted in a downgrade to clarity.

I will agree that the chance of wear damage causing a drop in clarity grade is greatest for a FL diamond as it only needs a blemish to drop it to IF. However, in many commercial contexts there is no real premium charged between the FL and IF grade. If that is the case the customer is at no greater risk of losing value if the diamond is set and worn.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Just for the record, the gemologist you were speaking to just left the GIA to come work at Enchanted, he was a clarity grader for 3 years and the GIA flew him to labs all around the world to help maintain quality assurance.

He has a very interesting perspective to offer.

He is right, a flawless diamond after years of wear and tear, wont necessarily stay flawless.... That is a fact of a diamonds life.

RockyRacoon, I find it hard to "justify" buying a Flawless diamond. How do you "justify" it? What education and experience have you come across or acquired that leads you to recommend a flawless diamond?

If a person just wants one, I understand... Though I personally wouldnt recommend it or try to justify it.

Josh,
I assume this is Inclusionking you are referring to above. For the sake of transparency it would be nice if he put his name and credentials in his signature file, which trade members are generally expected to do.

 

[Rockdiamond]

We also need to keep in mind the totally unexplained "Secret Sauce" Cut grade that Joshua has claimed people in the trade pay his company money to use.
When I inquired on that one, no answer was forthcoming.
If someone wants to misinform people in private, it's easy.
But putting this kind of hype on PS should really not fly.
We have had a trade up policy for about 17 years now, and I totally agree with Bryan's assessment of how diamonds are rarely damaged over many years wear- and in the unlikely event they are, it's a relatively easy fix.

 

[tmorrow]

Just looking around at ED and came across this 1.6ct I-IF. Would you call this mushy? The ASET is off the charts to my untrained eye...

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C160-AZQ3LC

You may be able to have another dealer like GOG call this 1.6 in and do a comparison video with this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-5ct-i-vs1-signature-modern-cushion.html

It is a computer generated ASET so it may not be quite as good as it appears, but otherwise it seems like a pretty good value even with the IF designation. It faces up about the same size as the 1.5 linked above.

Another Option

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.61-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-383988

 

[inclusionking]

In no way did I mean to scare people out of buying high clarity stones. Diamonds are tough! They've handled coming up from miles below the earth surface and withstood the brutal (no pun intended) polishing process to be made into a polished stone. Any consumer who buys high clarity stones should rest assured that they're stones can take a beating, no special care is needed to protect them and should be worn without a care in the world. That said from my experience I can honestly say that they're not indestructible either.
Texas Leaguer, Rockdiamond I don't know how many of your customers could have made use of your trade up policy in only the last 17 yrs, I hope a lot. And I don't know what clarity of stones they were trading up. But the fact is that both of you send your stones back into a lab for a good reason. Because it's necessary. They can get damaged.
Working at a lab I've seen your "rare cases" Texas Leaguer. Yours, Rockdiamond's and everyone else's. So i might have become a little jaded about high clarity stones. That said I'll down grade my comment from "very high" to "high" and exclude vs1s. I've seen enough of stones in and outside of a lab to know that a high clarity stone will probably be damaged in it's life time, just like lower clarity stones. And it should, an engagement ring that survives a marriage should have some battle scares to show off. Plus, sapphires and other gems get dinged up all the time why not diamonds?
Fixing a vvs chip is a super easy fix! But what if the stone is at the 2ct mark, or any other critical weight? This i know nothing about, so let me ask you Rockdiamond or Texas leaguer, If a customer comes in to trade in a stone. You send it to the lab and the lab says the clarity has been lowered because of new damage. The stone is at 2 ct and to fix it it'll drop to 1.98 cts. Would you advise the client to fix it? And if so, after fixing would you give him the same value as before?

 

[inclusionking]

You made a valiant attempt to steer the conversation back on topic Tmorrow considering the headline reads " 3 cushion video review" but let me clarify something.

Josh,
I assume this is Inclusionking you are referring to above. For the sake of transparency it would be nice if he put his name and credentials in his signature file, which trade members are generally expected to do.

Though I am in the trade and do work for E.D. in no way do my comments here reflect E.D.'s stance on anything. I do this on my leisure time. I joined this forum because I'd like to learn more about the market and the consumers, as well as to share some of the knowledge that I've acquired. Since I would like to be apart of this community I will follow trade member rules that are enforced equally not " generally."

TexasLeaguer please do not address Josh in regards to my signature or credentials since they are not his to give out. Again my comments here are my comments, not E.D.'s

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Inclusionking.
Although Rock Diamond Corp was actally 17 years old yesterday, my start in the trade was in 1976...so a lot more than 17 years.

In that time I have seen quite a few stones showing abrasions due to extended wear.
I've also seen plenty of diamonds that were damaged due to a specific incident.
Neither of these has anything at all to do with what clarity the diamond started out as.
Nor would I describe the possibility of such occurrences as "likely".

Re-submitting a diamond that has been traded in is for the benefit of the next buyer.
If a 2.00ct stone shows damage, we'd have a lot of aspects to consider.
A D/IF or a K/SI2 will bring different considerations.
Luckily, it's never happened in all my years that I can recall to a stone just on the cusp.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

You made a valiant attempt to steer the conversation back on topic Tmorrow considering the headline reads " 3 cushion video review" but let me clarify something.

Josh,
I assume this is Inclusionking you are referring to above. For the sake of transparency it would be nice if he put his name and credentials in his signature file, which trade members are generally expected to do.

Though I am in the trade and do work for E.D. in no way do my comments here reflect E.D.'s stance on anything. I do this on my leisure time. I joined this forum because I'd like to learn more about the market and the consumers, as well as to share some of the knowledge that I've acquired. Since I would like to be apart of this community I will follow trade member rules that are enforced equally not " generally."

TexasLeaguer please do not address Josh in regards to my signature or credentials since they are not his to give out. Again my comments here are my comments, not E.D.'s

If you work for a company your posts do reflect on that company whether you like it or not. And given the impressive introduction that Josh gave you, posting your credentials would presumably be beneficial to you.

Regarding forum rules, it would be a good idea for you to browse them. Rule #1 states:
Trade Members
Members of the diamond and jewelry trade must identify themselves by specifying their personal and business names in their profiles.
You can find the forum policy here:
https://www.pricescope.com/content/forum_policy

 

[Texas Leaguer]

In no way did I mean to scare people out of buying high clarity stones. Diamonds are tough! They've handled coming up from miles below the earth surface and withstood the brutal (no pun intended) polishing process to be made into a polished stone. Any consumer who buys high clarity stones should rest assured that they're stones can take a beating, no special care is needed to protect them and should be worn without a care in the world. That said from my experience I can honestly say that they're not indestructible either.
Texas Leaguer, Rockdiamond I don't know how many of your customers could have made use of your trade up policy in only the last 17 yrs, I hope a lot. And I don't know what clarity of stones they were trading up. But the fact is that both of you send your stones back into a lab for a good reason. Because it's necessary. They can get damaged.
Working at a lab I've seen your "rare cases" Texas Leaguer. Yours, Rockdiamond's and everyone else's. So i might have become a little jaded about high clarity stones. That said I'll down grade my comment from "very high" to "high" and exclude vs1s. I've seen enough of stones in and outside of a lab to know that a high clarity stone will probably be damaged in it's life time, just like lower clarity stones. And it should, an engagement ring that survives a marriage should have some battle scares to show off. Plus, sapphires and other gems get dinged up all the time why not diamonds?
Fixing a vvs chip is a super easy fix! But what if the stone is at the 2ct mark, or any other critical weight? This i know nothing about, so let me ask you Rockdiamond or Texas leaguer, If a customer comes in to trade in a stone. You send it to the lab and the lab says the clarity has been lowered because of new damage. The stone is at 2 ct and to fix it it'll drop to 1.98 cts. Would you advise the client to fix it? And if so, after fixing would you give him the same value as before?

Yes, nobody is disputing that a diamond can get damaged. In an accident, a diamond can potentially incur severe damage. But the context of the discussion was normal wear and tear. In our experience the damage from normal wear and tear is very minor, many times imperceptible except by gemological examination. While I agree that diamonds should be worn confidently every day, I disagree with your statement that "no special care is required to protect them and that they should be worn without a care in the world." Lifestyle considerations are important for caring for diamonds, as is proper storage - diamonds can scratch other diamonds. Even with something as durable as diamond, you should always use good sense.

Regarding our trade-up process, I would say the we probably do 2 or 3 of them a month. We have done hundreds of them over the years. We send them back to the lab in order to re-certify the stone for sale and if a scratch or chip is found, we repolish it. Again, the point is that in our experience problems, even minor ones, are quite rare.

In terms of the weight loss in those case where we have had to repolish chips or scratches, it is usually so minimal that it barely moves the dial. Because of rounding sometimes repolishing does not even change the weight! In terms of our trade up policy, if the diamond is discovered to have an issue we give the customer the option to have it repaired for them so that their trade can proceed. Labor charges and any value loss due to weight would be deducted from the trade in value. In the event that weight loss would drop the stone below a critical mark, the customer would be advised accordingly and their options would be explained to them. Again, these discussions are very rare - normally trade-ups go through without a hitch.

Diamonds with certain types of imperfections and/or very thin girdles do have a higher risk of damage during wear. And diamonds with points are also more at risk, but in most cases damage occurs in setting them, rather than wearing them after they have been properly set.

 

[Rockdiamond]

My personal experience is that imperfections have no bearing on where a diamond breaks, in the unlikely event it does break.
You'd think that a stone with a point, and an imperfection near that point would be more vulnerable....but remember how much stress the diamond underwent during the polishing process...

Having said that - and as a lover ( and buyer) of the value offered by SI2 or I1 diamonds- if a princess cut or marquise had a large feather cutting across a corner, I would be extremely hesitant to buy it