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3 Cushion Video Review - Opinions Please!

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
22
Hi folks

The vendor I am working with has been very helpful, and sent me two videos comparing 3 cushions I am considering. I was initially looking at the 1.87, but she suggested two others to compare - a 1.82 and a 1.73.

I initially wanted the 1.87, but having watched the videos and the certificates, I am falling for the 1.73 :love:. I think I also prefer the square shape over the rectangle, although I didn't care before. It appears brighter, with more sparkle than the 187, and seems whiter.

I'm just a layman, so I'm hoping some of you more experienced and knowledgable folks can give me your opinion!

1.73 vs 1.87 video
1.82 vs 1.87 video

1.87 I-VS1 ~$9600
GIA Cert
7.24 x 6.58 x 4.52mm
Cut: Ex
Sym: Ex
Polish: Ex
Fluor: None

1.83 I-VS2 ~$9200 (A LOT of cloud and crystal inclusions on the plot)
GIA Cert
6.93 x 6.67 x 4.65mm
Cut: Ex
Sym: Ex
Polish: Ex
Fluor: None

1.73 I-VS1 ~$9650
GIA Cert
6.80 x 6.70 x 4.57
Cut: Ex
Sym: VG
Polish: Ex
Fluor: Faint
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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Jan 15, 2015
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Wow... tough crowd :boohoo:
 

kellydean

Rough_Rock
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I just watched those videos about 10 times! I'm no expert, but just by the videos I really like the shape and sparkle of the smaller one. And by no means do I mean smaller as a bad thing..lol
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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kellydean|1427379433|3852656 said:
I just watched those videos about 10 times! I'm no expert, but just by the videos I really like the shape and sparkle of the smaller one. And by no means do I mean smaller as a bad thing..lol

Haha, I think I agree! Thanks Kelly. I've asked the vendor if I can get a natural daylight video of the 3 stones side-by-side to see how they perform.

I wish the symmetry on it was Excellent too, but I guess that's secondary to what appeals to the eye :naughty:
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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If those are the only 3 you are considering, I do think the 1.73ct looks the most likely prospect. Is it at all possible for your vendor to provide an Aset of the stone?

Looking at the video, the 2 other stones definitely and to a lesser extent I think also the 1.73ct seem to display what many PSers term "mush" - I'll post a link to another thread that explains "mush" but basically it adversely affects performance, making a diamond look lackluster and flat. https://www.pricescope.com/communit...s-about-this-cushion-cut-diamond-pics.206771/

If your vendor can provide an Aset of the 1.73ct, it would show whether there are any areas of mush and/or light leakage, and then you can made a more informed evaluation of the stone.
 

chrono

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marymm|1427382623|3852694 said:
If those are the only 3 you are considering, I do think the 1.73ct looks the most likely prospect. Is it at all possible for your vendor to provide an Aset of the stone?

Looking at the video, the 2 other stones definitely and to a lesser extent I think also the 1.73ct seem to display what many PSers term "mush" - I'll post a link to another thread that explains "mush" but basically it adversely affects performance, making a diamond look lackluster and flat. https://www.pricescope.com/communit...s-about-this-cushion-cut-diamond-pics.206771/

If your vendor can provide an Aset of the 1.73ct, it would show whether there are any areas of mush and/or light leakage, and then you can made a more informed evaluation of the stone.

+1. The 1.73 ct is the nicest of the three but if you aren't sold on it, I would look for others to compare against the 1.73 ct. The other 2 are definitely out of the running.
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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Jan 15, 2015
Messages
22
Thank you both for having a look!

I see what you mean about the "mush" now, although you're right - of the three the 1.73 is the better of the three for this. I've requested an ASET so we'll see what comes back!

I've been looking for so long now I'm starting to get frustrated, but I don't want to blow a lot of money on something that ends up being subpar :wall:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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No I wouldn't call it mushy. It's quite lovely.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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^ agree 100%.
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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Right - I'll see if I can get a video of that one from ED too then. I'm not finding them to be too responsive right now though
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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So, the ED "qualified gemoligist" scared the life out of me. Some of the statements they made were ridiculous (eg. why buy an FL - it won't be FL for long) etc. I won't be risking any of my money with them, that's for sure.

I got a daylight video back from my original vendor. The 1.73 is on the left, and then the 1.87 and the 1.82.

I'm definitely leaning toward that 1.73, unless anyone has any better suggestions...? Looking for a square cushion, $10k USD or less, I+ SI1+, and over 1.5ct

Video 173 vs 187 vs 182

173-1.jpg
173-2.jpg
173-3.jpg
 

RockyRacoon

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Messages
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Photoplex|1427481190|3853346 said:
So, the ED "qualified gemoligist" scared the life out of me. Some of the statements they made were ridiculous (eg. why buy an FL - it won't be FL for long) etc. I won't be risking any of my money with them, that's for sure.

I got a daylight video back from my original vendor. The 1.73 is on the left, and then the 1.87 and the 1.82.

I'm definitely leaning toward that 1.73, unless anyone has any better suggestions...? Looking for a square cushion, $10k USD or less, I+ SI1+, and over 1.5ct

Video 173 vs 187 vs 182

173-1.jpg
173-2.jpg
173-3.jpg

I understand what he's saying when stating 'won't be FL for long,' but there are certainly justifiable reasons for buying a FL stone.

They've made some statements on this forum that are plain wrong and show a real lack of education/experience in this field. You are not the first to have this experience with Enchanted Diamonds.
 

JoshuaNiamehr

Shiny_Rock
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Just for the record, the gemologist you were speaking to just left the GIA to come work at Enchanted, he was a clarity grader for 3 years and the GIA flew him to labs all around the world to help maintain quality assurance.

He has a very interesting perspective to offer.

He is right, a flawless diamond after years of wear and tear, wont necessarily stay flawless.... That is a fact of a diamonds life.

RockyRacoon, I find it hard to "justify" buying a Flawless diamond. How do you "justify" it? What education and experience have you come across or acquired that leads you to recommend a flawless diamond?

If a person just wants one, I understand... Though I personally wouldnt recommend it or try to justify it.
 

RockyRacoon

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427492591|3853406 said:
RockyRacoon, I find it hard to "justify" buying a Flawless diamond. How do you "justify" it? What education and experience have you come across or acquired that leads you to recommend a flawless diamond?

If a person just wants one, I understand... Though I personally wouldnt recommend it or try to justify it.

Do five minutes of research on diamonds in Asian culture (Japanese, Chinese, or Korean would work) and you'll quickly see that this is easily justified.

It's amazing that you don't already know this, though, as this is common knowledge, leading to even further questions of experience and expertise (or lack there of, in this case) in the field.
 

JoshuaNiamehr

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That's a stereotype and overgeneralization - not a justification.

Also, its usually based on miseducation. Many are led to believe the better the clarity the more beautiful the diamond. That is not cultural.

And what you speak of is actually more from Indian/Hindu culture, some of our Indian clients have told me its considered bad luck by the brides family to have a black inclusion in the table of a diamond.

Korean's used to LOVE fluorescence till a TV show came on and said otherwise.... Is that cultural or miseducation?

"Then came the Korean debacle. Korea had become a major market for fluorescent stones, but in 1993 a muckraking South Korean TV show told viewers that fluorescent stones were worth a lot less than others. Ever since, high-color fluorescent diamonds have been a hard sell not just in Korea, but throughout Asia."

Source: http://www.jckonline.com/1998/09/01/will-gia-s-study-finally-settle-fluorescence-question-don-t-count-on-it
 

RockyRacoon

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427495033|3853420 said:
That's a stereotype and overgeneralization - not a justification.

Also, its usually based on miseducation. Many are led to believe the better the clarity the more beautiful the diamond. That is not cultural.

And what you speak of is actually more from Indian/Hindu culture, some of our Indian clients have told me its considered bad luck by the brides family to have a black inclusion in the table of a diamond.

Korean's used to LOVE fluorescence till a TV show came on and said otherwise.... Is that cultural or miseducation?

"Then came the Korean debacle. Korea had become a major market for fluorescent stones, but in 1993 a muckraking South Korean TV show told viewers that fluorescent stones were worth a lot less than others. Ever since, high-color fluorescent diamonds have been a hard sell not just in Korea, but throughout Asia."

Source: http://www.jckonline.com/1998/09/01/will-gia-s-study-finally-settle-fluorescence-question-don-t-count-on-it

Having married an Asian woman, I can tell you that it is not an overgeneralization and is not a stereotype. You are simply wrong.

It is not based on miseducation, but instead based on an emphasis of perfection or flawless symbolism.
 

WinkHPD

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427492591|3853406 said:
Just for the record, the gemologist you were speaking to just left the GIA to come work at Enchanted, he was a clarity grader for 3 years and the GIA flew him to labs all around the world to help maintain quality assurance.

He has a very interesting perspective to offer.

He is right, a flawless diamond after years of wear and tear, wont necessarily stay flawless.... That is a fact of a diamonds life.

RockyRacoon, I find it hard to "justify" buying a Flawless diamond. How do you "justify" it? What education and experience have you come across or acquired that leads you to recommend a flawless diamond?

If a person just wants one, I understand... Though I personally wouldnt recommend it or try to justify it.

I can only speak for myself, and I have sold several flawless diamonds over the years.

I do not "justify" them, I enjoy them. I treasure the experience of working with someone who wants a Flawless diamond and I love the many reasons that they express to me.

Some people want one because they are relatively rare.

Some people want one because of the pride in telling a loved one that they got a flawless diamond to be a symbol of the love, devotion and honor with which they hold the recipient.

Some people want one for it's investment value, a 1ct D-IF is going to appreciate more than a 1 ct J-SI2 over the years.

Some people want one because it JUST MAKES THEM FEEL GOOD!

What ever the reason, I do not "justify" the purchase. I enjoy working with people and helping them to get what they desire.

My joy in life is working to help people get what they want in the diamond that they are purchasing. For some of them it will be only the best color and clarity, for others the biggest for their budget, and for other's still other criteria. In my opinion, it is not about the "Justifying," it is about the joy of helping people.

Wink
 

Texas Leaguer

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427492591|3853406 said:
Just for the record, the gemologist you were speaking to just left the GIA to come work at Enchanted, he was a clarity grader for 3 years and the GIA flew him to labs all around the world to help maintain quality assurance.

He has a very interesting perspective to offer.

He is right, a flawless diamond after years of wear and tear, wont necessarily stay flawless.... That is a fact of a diamonds life.

RockyRacoon, I find it hard to "justify" buying a Flawless diamond. How do you "justify" it? What education and experience have you come across or acquired that leads you to recommend a flawless diamond?

If a person just wants one, I understand... Though I personally wouldnt recommend it or try to justify it.
What the heck to you mean "how do you justify it"? Since when does a customer have to justify what they want in a diamond?

Are you suggesting that a consumer should have to justify the desire to own the very best if that is what they want? Or that they are foolish for wanting it because it might get a scratch at some point and then "only" be internally flawless?

And yes, in addition to a wide range of individual preferences there are well known cultural preferences when it comes to diamond quality.
 

JoshuaNiamehr

Shiny_Rock
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TL,

I was only speaking in regards to RockyRacoon's statement:

Do five minutes of research on diamonds in Asian culture (Japanese, Chinese, or Korean would work) and you'll quickly see that this is easily justified.

Of course EVERYONE is entitled to their preferences.

If you only want a diamond that's been blessed by a shaman at the top of Mt. Everest, then that's totally up to you too. But as jewelers, it's our job to give customers our honest recommendations and insights.

Would any expert disagree that a flawless diamond is at risk of losing its flawless grade over time?
 

RockyRacoon

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427498582|3853450 said:
TL,

I was only speaking in regards to RockyRacoon's statement:

Do five minutes of research on diamonds in Asian culture (Japanese, Chinese, or Korean would work) and you'll quickly see that this is easily justified.

Stop trying to deflect.

You were 100% wrong in your statement about stereotypes and miseducation.

You are the one who is misinformed here, and it is obvious to any observer.

Admitting when you're wrong will get you much further than continuing to argue a point contrary to fact.
 

JoshuaNiamehr

Shiny_Rock
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RockyRacoon|1427499344|3853459 said:
JoshuaNiamehr|1427498582|3853450 said:
TL,

I was only speaking in regards to RockyRacoon's statement:

Do five minutes of research on diamonds in Asian culture (Japanese, Chinese, or Korean would work) and you'll quickly see that this is easily justified.

Stop trying to deflect.

You were 100% wrong in your statement about stereotypes and miseducation.

You are the one who is misinformed here, and it is obvious to any observer.

Admitting when you're wrong will get you much further than continuing to argue a point contrary to fact.

So what exactly is your point? That every woman in Asia has the same preferences in diamonds as your wife?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Okay, as others have said, the 1.73 is the only one of these worth considering. Even though the ED diamond has a relatively good ASET image, it is the smallest of the 4 stones and I would try to go larger which you can potentially do if you go with VS2 over FL clarity.

I'll take a look since you asked for alternatives.
 

RockyRacoon

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JoshuaNiamehr|1427500210|3853464 said:
RockyRacoon|1427499344|3853459 said:
JoshuaNiamehr|1427498582|3853450 said:
TL,

I was only speaking in regards to RockyRacoon's statement:

Do five minutes of research on diamonds in Asian culture (Japanese, Chinese, or Korean would work) and you'll quickly see that this is easily justified.

Stop trying to deflect.

You were 100% wrong in your statement about stereotypes and miseducation.

You are the one who is misinformed here, and it is obvious to any observer.

Admitting when you're wrong will get you much further than continuing to argue a point contrary to fact.

So what exactly is your point? That every woman in Asia has the same preferences in diamonds as your wife?

My point is that there are reasons that people want FL stones.

You said there was no cultural importance put on FL stones by Asian cultures. You are wrong about this.

First you didn't understand what SI1 meant for the eye-cleanliness of a stone, but you made broad, incorrect statements about it. Now you don't understand another culture, and are making broad, incorrect statements about it.

When consumers know more about diamonds than a purported 'expert,' the public would have good reason to distrust anything this 'expert' might say.
 

inclusionking

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I was the "qualified gemologist" who said " a FL stone won't be FL for long" and I'd like to apologize. I'm sorry photoplex my intention was never to scare you. What I meant to say, and should have said was, "FL stones are a marvel of what man and natural can do. They are as the word suggests, FLAWLESS ( in regards to clarity). They are also rare and because of that you will be paying a premium for it, while running the risk of damaging the stone and having it lose value". Though I do have quite a bit of experience as a gemologist, I have less experience dealing with customers, especially the impatient ones that ask for advice in a field they know little of and yet dismiss my advice before even given a chance to explain it...:boohoo: ... Hence my "a FL stone won't be FL for long" comment. It was brash of me. I'll definitely try to improve on my customer service and gemological skills. I'm sure I could learn a thing or two from many veterans here. If you every have any other questions, I'd really appreciate the chance to help you in the search for your perfect stone. You know where to find me.

I will not reply to the comment of me saying "why buy a FL" since that was taken out of context. I very well know that every person has their preferences and since I will not be the one living with whatever purchase that person makes, I will not deter anyone from getting whatever it is they want. I will however try and educate them on their purchase to make sure that they 1) know what they want and 2) get exactly what they want.

My advice would be to get the 1.73 since your preference is towards square cushions. And don't worry, it's a vs1, so unless it mistakenly takes a trip down the garbage disposal, i'm pretty sure it'll stay a vs1 for a very long time.
 

laVidaLoca

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So this is my first time posting on Pricescope... been a lurker for too long and I've just gotta say, the misinformation here isssss OVERWHELMING.

This dude, InclusionKing, is pretty much on point w/ his statement on FL stones. How could it be wrong for him to tell you that an FL wouldn't last? He was being brutally honest and its really not hard to see.

Look, its as simple as this: an FL stone that incurs any sort of blemish a gemologist could catch at 10X, turns that stone into an IF. There's really nothing else to it.... :o

It all boils down to personal preference. Do you want an FL stone? By all means, go for it... But no one in the world will be able to tell the difference between the FL and a comparable VS unless it is heavily scrutinized under a microscope.

I don't think bringing cultural opinions into this argument is effective either. Lets stick to facts?
 

HegemonyCricket

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laVidaLoca|1427525426|3853640 said:
I don't think bringing cultural opinions into this argument is effective either. Lets stick to facts?

As a Certified Asian Female (TM), I agree with Tina Belcher's comment. :D

To the OP: I don't know much about cushions, but it sounds like you have a good eye for them, and I'm sure you'll make a lovely choice. Good luck!
 

RockyRacoon

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laVidaLoca|1427525426|3853640 said:
I don't think bringing cultural opinions into this argument is effective either. Lets stick to facts?

Facts are - many Asian cultures emphasize clarity and color over other components. I've spent a fair amount of time in Japan, so I can say this has been confirmed in person, as well as being a widely-known sentiment within the community. Does this mean it's true for every individual within the community? Absolutely not. Does that matter? Absolutely not.

Whether you are aware of this fact or not does not negate the fact that it's true.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,


I just want to point out that what the gemologist said, could be said about any grade of stone. In the diamond world you are always paying a premium over the grades below what you buy. If any diamond becomes damaged scratched. chipped, it may lose many grades.

On pricescope usually going down in clarity and color is just a means to meet a budget. Often it is suggested to go down in clarity., But in this case there was no such consideration. I would love a flawless diamond, to me it would be the pinnacle of diamond buying.Ane I am not Asian.

Mr. Gemologist, you did right coming on here to apologize. Its a shame your bosses don't understand this concept. But please. all diamonds would be downgraded if damaged.

Annette
 

Photoplex

Rough_Rock
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diamondseeker2006|1427501264|3853474 said:
Okay, as others have said, the 1.73 is the only one of these worth considering. Even though the ED diamond has a relatively good ASET image, it is the smallest of the 4 stones and I would try to go larger which you can potentially do if you go with VS2 over FL clarity.

I'll take a look since you asked for alternatives.

Much appreciated!
 
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