Perfect Circle Jewelry Insurance Frustration

[MrsWhitney]

So, I recently insured my jewelry (my inherited pieces are at my parents and covered there). But I live in NYC, so after a few police visits learning our building is using vacant apartments as AirBnB, I decided to insure some of my jewelry (like my $50,000) e-ring, and more. Not all of it, but most.

A month later, while getting an EKG, I was asked (in front of the doctor and nurse and my husband-another doctor) to take it off (not a surprise, given I have a heart condition). My husband was handed the jewelry, and he put it in his pocket- or mine---we do not remember- it was a rushed appointment, my heart was abnormal, I had blood work, and a possible tumor in my thyroid- essentially at the moment my jewelry was a secondary concern-

We walked a few blocks.

Took a cab,

And a few hours later, I realized we could not find my jewelry NONE of it.

In lieu of being treated well- I am being treated like a criminal. Newly insured jewelry- sure- but honestly- they do not even replace TIffany- so they do not seem to care that I am the one actually out my branded jewelry! They will "cover it" if I re-buy it all and they REIMBURSE (after I pass their massive investigation into my husband and I). I do not have a spare $65,000 lying around. So I guess it will come from Blue Nile...their "partner".

I have to do a videos and taped recording for 2 hours; they pulled all cameras around us; my husband has a separate interview for the same amount of time (so he is asking for time off his surgery rotation that day). When asked about how long this could last- I was told MANY months.

I am devastated and no one there seems to care. Jewelry is 1) sentimental 2) Tiffany is NOT Blue Nile 3) I deserve to not be treated like a criminal. I CANNOT help the jewelry was lost- mostly likely following out of my wide and yet shallow cashmere Max Mara coat pockets.

The man, it is like he wants to put me in jail in lieu of finding my items?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Finding stolen items is the job of the police. The underwriters job is to make client's whole again. They have nothing to do with the theft investigation.

To be sure, their task is complicated enough and the first step is that they need to verify a valid claim from a fraud. Presumably that's what the interviews are about. I can't contribute a whit to this but I may be able to help on understanding the Tiffany thing. Indeed, Blue nile is not Tiffany, and they know it. JM requires paperwork before they bind a policy. Sometimes that has to do with appraisals, sometimes it's receipts, sometimes it's other things. This paperwork is what's driving the claims process. Presumably that paperwork included mention the Tiffany branding. No? Can you be a bit more specific about this? What did you give them (in terms of paperwork) and where did you get it? By the way, if you don't have a copy, ask for it. That and the policy itself are the driving documents for this negotiation.

 

[MrsWhitney]

Hi! Thank you for replying. All my items, when going through the insurance process, required appraisals, and Tiffany & Co provided Valuations- so it was clear to Perfect Circle they were in fact TIffany and hence why my premium was so high; I assume they view it as fraud given I recently purchased the policy 2 months ago- and nearly all items went missing. Per the precinct where I filed though, it seemed like it was no big deal.

To me it is, and I guess I had hoped my insurance would work swiftly to replace my items and help- instead I have interviews of 2-3 hours long scheduled. He requires us separated, and it just seems a bit hurtful. Not once has he said "sorry for your loss". Here I am devastated.

 

[tmorris]

Wow. What a frustrating experience. Every insurance company is different but for a jewelry-focused business like JM I would have expected more sympathy if nothing else. Doesn't their website say they'll replace a Tiffany ring with a Tiffany ring?

Assuming you re-insure once you get your replacement you might want to consider alternatives. I've always heard good things about Chubb, though I know they can be expensive. And I did see another post on this forum about a company called Lavalier that seemed to have good customer service: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jewelry-insurance-engagement-ring-tips.210147/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jewelry-insurance-engagement-ring-tips.210147/[/URL]

Good luck!

 

[WinkHPD]

I am sorry that you are having problems.

I have done a lot of replacement work for Jewelers Mutual with out ever having a problem, and I do not know why you are having such a problem, but if your adjuster is not treating you well, you may wish to contact Jewelers Mutual and ask for a supervisor to assist you.

Just my thoughts.

Wink

 

[MrsWhitney]

HI-
THey will insure TIffany jewelry with Tiffany jewelry BUT you have to re-buy it yourself again, and then they will refund you in 6-8 weeks. I cannot afford to re-buy all my jewelry (hence why I insured it).

I am devastated.

The "investigator" seems to imply we are lying. No apologies about my priceless jewelry. I have cried non-stop since.

THE ONLY high end jeweler willing to work with the insurance company is Graff (which is on my block on the UES). They found a similar ring, so I was hoping at the least that could be solved. I have an important physicians dinner in Tennessee in three weeks- and I have a feeling I am going totally jewelry less. HECK, this investigator seems to want to blame me

I cannot sleep and am so broken up.

 

[MrsWhitney]

It is sad, but this process makes me see 1) Tiffany does not ever work with insurance agents 2) my FBI cousin was right, expect to be interrogated 3) Graff is friendly.

 

[MollyMalone]

Hi! Thank you for replying. All my items, when going through the insurance process, required appraisals, and Tiffany & Co provided Valuations- so it was clear to Perfect Circle they were in fact TIffany and hence why my premium was so high; I assume they view it as fraud given I recently purchased the policy 2 months ago- and nearly all items went missing. Per the precinct where I filed though, it seemed like it was no big deal.

To me it is, and I guess I had hoped my insurance would work swiftly to replace my items and help- instead I have interviews of 2-3 hours long scheduled. He requires us separated, and it just seems a bit hurtful. Not once has he said "sorry for your loss". Here I am devastated.

I know this is lots easier said than done, but try to not take the investigation personally. This is far from the ordinary for you, but it's a routine, anti-fraud precautionary practice for the insurance company, triggered by an unfortunate combination of circumstances that raised a red flag for them: you had owned the $50,000 Tiffany ring & other pieces for some time before insuring them and ''then submitted a claim for the loss of most everything covered by the policy such a short time after taking out the policy. I predict any insurance company, not just Perfect Circle, would be putting you through the same interview hoops, and any claims investigator would be distant with you while the matter is under review; that's standard operating procedure.

(fyi: that the police at the precinct station didn't act like it was a big deal is of no significance in this context: they were simply carrying out the ministerial task of taking your lost property report, not acting in their criminal law enforcement capacity.)

Here's an account of a similar experience; you'll see that shortly after the husband and wife had their interviews re the 2nd loss of a ring, Jewelers Mutual (now a/k/a Perfect Circle for those not in the trade) agreed they were entitled to compensation. So although you've been told the investigation could take months, that's not necessarily how long you will have to wait.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/claims-question-lost-ring.84257/

Hope you too see a happy resolution sooner rather than later -- and wishing you all the best on the medical front!

 

[MrsWhitney]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! You are the best.

I understand it looks odd; I insured jewelry in CA- like my inherited pieces and honestly did not insure the items in NYC until a few weeks ago when police came to our door to tell us that 4 units in our 5-story Upper East Side walk-up is being used as AirBnB (illegal in NYC) and that they had keys to many doors-


So just a culmination of bad events led this-

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. I can always count on my beloved Pricescope community. Sad I won't be able to afford to replace my TIffany item, but if Graff comes through- I will be thankful.

Part of the reason I was distraught at the doctors office is my heart problem, then they found what appears thyroid cancer, and a cyst in my ovary. IT WAS A BAD BAD BAD BAD day. Last thing I needed was an adjuster asking me to recount my every move----

 

[denverappraiser]

To the extent that they're engaged in a fraud investigation there's not much to add. They HAVE to do that and if they decide it's a problem, what store to replace at won't be the issue.

In terms of the cash flow of the replacement, I'm surprised Tiffany can't or won't work with you. Maybe something involving their layaway program where you 'buy' something but don't actually pay for it until the insurer coughs up the money? They, like most jewelers, are anxious to make sales and I would expect them to be eager to find a solution here.

I second the suggestion to talk to management at JM. They really are a pretty agreeable company and they will work with nearly any jeweler in the country who is willing to work with them. Tiff's is a big outfit and they have surely arrived at this impasse before. Someone at JM undoubtedly has experience with it. I'm pretty sure they monitor this forum by the way.

The Tiffany management is a little less overtly solicitous, but they're the ones who stand to make a $65,000 sale out of this. That's a pretty good incentive to make something happen. My gut feeling is that both the problem and the solution will have more to do with them than JM.

 

[MrsWhitney]

Thank you Denver Appraiser- I agree- it must be a fraud investigation; but sadly on my end all I see is that all my daily jewelry is missing lost or as the NYPD stated, easily pick pocketed...but a cousin in the FBI thinks it rare.

I am neurotic person by nature- LOSING my jewelry is out of character and now I am so depressed I cannot even get out of bed...

 

[MrsWhitney]

And sorry, I forgot to thank you Denver Appraiser - this is good information-and if I ever do get to the replacement part, I will fight for TIffany- especially for the items ONLY Tiffany & Co makes......

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am so very sorry to hear what you are going through. I think the insurance issue is as others have said, just typical for any newly insured person with a large loss. But it should work out okay after they go through the process.

How is your health? Have you learned any more about that? That must be extremely upsetting!

 

[denverappraiser]

My ex-wife was a claims adjuster for an insurance company (not JM). One of the observations I remember her making is that claims, legitimate claims, almost always involve the owner feeling that they did something wrong. They left it on the sink at work, they let the dog get it, they left it in their car or whatever. That's what claims look like. Separating the legitimate claims from the frauds are what the investigators are for and that interrogation session is a significant piece of the process. It's irritating and sometimes even offensive but it's not something to lose sleep over. Let 'em do their work. The burden of proof is on them, and if you've done nothing wrong then they've got nothing to prove. They HAVE to look into it, so let them look. They also have a fair amount of pressure to wrap it up quickly. It's a highly regulated and highly competitive industry. They have no more interest than you in dragging this out for months. The possibility that it might take a while is just hedging their bets. It probably will go fairly quickly.

 

[emmebee]

I don't really think it's fair that you are bad-mouthing PC for doing their job. I understand it is a very stressful/scary time for you, but as a user of PC insurance, I am glad they are looking into the situation. If they did not investigate every situation for fraud, I assume premiums would be much higher - pricing out many normal users. Just wondering.. why did you insure items in CA but not in NY? Is your parents' house less safe?

I hope you are doing okay with everything health-related.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

MrsWhitney,
I am very sorry for your loss and the trauma of all the different events that you are dealing with. As the others have said so well, try to be patient with the process. These are really crummy circumstances and all entities have to go through their required steps. I am sure the insurance situation will work its way out and you will be treated fairly in the end. We have had many years of experience with Jewelers Mutual and have every confidence that they will honor their policy and do so in as prompt a time frame as they possibly can.

Good luck to you and please do keep us posted. We are all with you in spirit.

 

[WinkHPD]

To the extent that they're engaged in a fraud investigation there's not much to add. They HAVE to do that and if they decide it's a problem, what store to replace at won't be the issue.

In terms of the cash flow of the replacement, I'm surprised Tiffany can't or won't work with you. Maybe something involving their layaway program where you 'buy' something but don't actually pay for it until the insurer coughs up the money? They, like most jewelers, are anxious to make sales and I would expect them to be eager to find a solution here.

I second the suggestion to talk to management at JM. They really are a pretty agreeable company and they will work with nearly any jeweler in the country who is willing to work with them. Tiff's is a big outfit and they have surely arrived at this impasse before. Someone at JM undoubtedly has experience with it. I'm pretty sure they monitor this forum by the way.

The Tiffany management is a little less overtly solicitous, but they're the ones who stand to make a $65,000 sale out of this. That's a pretty good incentive to make something happen. My gut feeling is that both the problem and the solution will have more to do with them than JM.

Neil,

Just guessing here but possibly Tiffany does not want to work with JM as JM has a replacement policy and tells us retailers what margins we can use when replacing a given item. The percentages are more generous than what we typically get on the Internet, but lower than what retail jewelers would normally get.

We replace the item, submit a copy of our costs to JM and receive payment at the agreed upon price. Tiffany may not wish to play at that table.

Again, I am just guessing here.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! You are the best.

I understand it looks odd; I insured jewelry in CA- like my inherited pieces and honestly did not insure the items in NYC until a few weeks ago when police came to our door to tell us that 4 units in our 5-story Upper East Side walk-up is being used as AirBnB (illegal in NYC) and that they had keys to many doors-


So just a culmination of bad events led this-

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. I can always count on my beloved Pricescope community. Sad I won't be able to afford to replace my TIffany item, but if Graff comes through- I will be thankful.

Part of the reason I was distraught at the doctors office is my heart problem, then they found what appears thyroid cancer, and a cyst in my ovary. IT WAS A BAD BAD BAD BAD day. Last thing I needed was an adjuster asking me to recount my every move----

The health issues are truly so much more important than the jewelry. I am sorry for your loss on the jewelry and believe that in the long run it will be taken care of.

Still, I think I am not alone in wanting more for you in the health department. You will be in many of our prayers.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

With most insurance policies, the company is agreeing to replace with like kind and quality up to the limits of the policy. In practice, that usually means new, not used, and it usually means sticking to recognized brands when available. If they can find someone who will sell them genuine Tiffany goods new for less, or if they can beat up Tiffany on the prices, they are welcome to do so. This is exactly the same dynamic as if they're replacing a genuine Crafted by Infinity from you. They can beat you up, they can find some other CBI dealer who they can beat up, or they can convince the customer that some substitute is of like kind and quality. With more generic sorts of items, they can buy elsewhere if the jeweler doesn't like the price and there's a whole industry of jewelers fishing for this but branded things are handled differently. Within the limits of the policy, Tiffany's 'cost' shouldn't matter, only what they customarily charge for items of that type and whether or not they can actually replace it at all. There is no alternative supplier.

It sounds like they've even already agreed to do it. It's now a matter of cash flow. That's where I would expect Tiffany to offer to come up with a solution. I interact with replacement type jewelers fairly often and I don't know a single one that would cheerfully let a $65,000 sale walk out the door without putting up a fight to keep it.

 

[WinkHPD]

As always, your experience in this field is huge and spot on. I was trying to guess why Tiffany might not want to work with JM, but I know I would do what ever it took to keep that job that they appear to be letting walk out the door.

I suspect a few days for things to settle down might have different answers and solutions offered.

Wink

 

[pyramid]

As always, your experience in this field is huge and spot on. I was trying to guess why Tiffany might not want to work with JM, but I know I would do what ever it took to keep that job that they appear to be letting walk out the door.

I suspect a few days for things to settle down might have different answers and solutions offered.

Wink

Previous posts say ring was bought on the secondary market.

 

[MrsWhitney]

@emmebee- you are right, I should not bad mouth PC- they seemed to outsource my claim though; and the man seems to act as though I am a major inconvenience.

@denverappraiser- thank you- it helps me understand the process (of 15+ years of owning jewelry) this is the first time it happened; sadly, it was when I recently purchased insurance at PC (I think I once had Chubb in California and never used it).

Today, I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer on top of my heart condition- so I am going to be moving in 4 weeks- I guess I am literally in shock. I could care less about material items...especially since they were sentimental. But, one is a cross, that I think I could use and then of course, my engagement ring- which brought a shining light to me.

Tiffany will not work with insurance, using Perfect Circle I have to re-buy the item, then submit the receipt to Perfect Circle---I cannot do that for such a high value items(s). THE ONLY store willing to work with me after briefly calling around is Graff. It would be nice to be able to do that while I live a few blocks away, but this process may be taking me months---

I meet for my investigation on Monday--then I believe he is going to be pulling footage from neighboring businesses and such----

 

[MrsWhitney]

Pyramid- I own a few rings- this one was not a secondary market ring. I was married before, and engaged as well prior- all Tiffany rings.

 

[MrsWhitney]

@texasleauger- thank you for your kind words; they mean a lot to me. I am home alone waiting for my husband to come home from a surgery he just did on a patient- and I just feel the world caving in

 

[MrsWhitney]

@emmebee- just saw your other question to me---my jewelry in California falls under their policy- so when I moved; I got a separate policy under my own name.

I live in the 10065 zip code; very safe'- and my parent's live in Laguna Beach, CA another high-valued area---- it was just a matter of getting time, what items I had at the moments, and other factors----

Both places we live are extremely safe. And over $5 million.

 

[sonnyjane]

Sorry about your jewelry troubles. Wanted to say that I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer in 2011 and had a full removal at that time along with radioactive iodine treatment, so let me know if you have questions or concerns about the process!

 

[heididdl]

Sorry about your heart and thyroid issues I know it seems overwhelming . The good news is I am sure you know Thyroid cancer is usually self contained and quite treatable. My sister is a 25 year thyroid cancer survivor. God luck The jewelery will work out ...Just concentrate on your health as stress is not good for your health period.

 

[pyramid]

Pyramid- I own a few rings- this one was not a secondary market ring. I was married before, and engaged as well prior- all Tiffany rings.

I see, was just wondering about why Tiffany would not work with your insurer. I wish you all the best with your health and with getting your claim processed asap.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

MrsWhitney, I will be praying for you to be cured of the cancer and to find peace and comfort as you go through this trial. {{{hugs}}}

 

[dismom3]

I am sending you a big hug as well.