Tried new vendor, what do you think?

[Marlow]

We need a new list with vendors know for photoshopped unrealistic pictures!!

 

[Siameseroo]

That really sucks. I agree that vendor photos are an integral component of the 'description' and key to a customer's purchasing decision. In this case, the photo is clearly misleading. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[pregcurious]

OTL, thanks for your service. I know it can be hard sometimes to post negative experiences. It is a big help to us.

 

[pregcurious]

OTL, thanks for your service. I know it can be hard sometimes to post negative experiences. It is a big help to us.

 

[T L]

We need a new list with vendors know for photoshopped unrealistic pictures!!

We have the vendor photo thread. It would also be good to put the vendor name in the title of any review, so that people can easily search for the reviews, or the name comes up in a browser.

 

[wildcatz]

I agree, the photo is a fraudulent representation of the stone. Honest vendors will tell you when a photo is different than the actual stone. I have seen many descriptions from good vendors where they say the stone is brighter, darker, pinker, etc, in real life.

I would send a link of this thread to the vendor and explain what a popular forum it is around the world. It is very bad publicity to be shamed on this forum.

 

[OTL]

Thank you all for the nice support, I will not bother to argue more with her for the postage since it is going to be really exhausting.
I'll just go ahead and return it and bear the cost. Hope my bad experience with gemhunters can help others avoid more trouble in the future.

 

[Gem Hunters]

I am Trudy from gem hunters - two sides to every story- I asked the stone to be returned, I would rather have the green tourmaline back and resell to someone that appreciates the gem. However buyer has a put in paypal dispute wanting full refund and has not posted the gem back. Buyer has taken his photo in washed out light, an old trick and is using pricescope users comments in his paypal dispute against me.Clearly states on my website that I am in Bangkok for some time (while Lou is teaching custom cutting here). We travel allot in the gem trade. Please just post the tourmaline back OTL as I have asked, then refund of puchase price will be given - a reasonable request. I am sorry you all don't like this green tourmaline - it is quite a nice gem and is like photos if taken in good light. Im not on any tv show - sorry.

 

[gingercurls]

VL could not have said it better. I am also puzzled as to what you are trying to accomplish here, Gem Hunters. Your post is accusatory, to say the least. What do you hope to gain by saying that it is a common Pricescope "trick" to take photos of a gem in washed out lighting? What do you believe OTL has to gain by "deliberately" trying to take a photo that will make the stone seem worse than it is? All you have done is make it so that no PS'ers will buy from you. Also, many of our recommended vendors take photos of gems in less than ideal lighting conditions so that it is a PLEASANT surprise when the customer receives a stone.

 

[gingercurls]

P.S. you should edit your profile to honestly and accurately reflect your trade status.

 

[marymm]

Color is one of the hardest things to describe correctly and to photograph accurately - and depending on geographic locations, your natural light may differ quite a bit from another person's natural light.

In this case, the OP is saying the color of the stone as shown in the listing (appearing bluish-green) does not match the color she sees in real life (appearing yellowish-green) - as most of us know, this is an extremely common complaint/problem with colored gemstone purchases over the Internet, and in particular when it comes to green Tourmalines.

I have very often seen Tourmalines like the one photographed by the OP described as "mint green." I have also seen green stones photographed against blue backgrounds so that a yellow secondary hue is neutralized, so to speak. Certainly, I think most would agree buying a stone based on color shown in a single photo is a bit of a crap-shoot.

Not refunding shipping costs unless an item is listed incorrectly (i.e., wrong carat weight, wrong dimensions, wrong stone identification) is a very common policy.

For myself, and I consider myself an experienced colored gemstone collector, if I bought this Tourmaline based on the single photo of the listing and found the secondary hue to be yellow and not blue, I would have followed the return policy and sought a refund of the purchase price, less shipping.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[minousbijoux]

Color is one of the hardest things to describe correctly and to photograph accurately - and depending on geographic locations, your natural light may differ quite a bit from another person's natural light.

In this case, the OP is saying the color of the stone as shown in the listing (appearing bluish-green) does not match the color she sees in real life (appearing yellowish-green) - as most of us know, this is an extremely common complaint/problem with colored gemstone purchases over the Internet, and in particular when it comes to green Tourmalines.

I have very often seen Tourmalines like the one photographed by the OP described as "mint green." I have also seen green stones photographed against blue backgrounds so that a yellow secondary hue is neutralized, so to speak. Certainly, I think most would agree buying a stone based on color shown in a single photo is a bit of a crap-shoot.

Not refunding shipping costs unless an item is listed incorrectly (i.e., wrong carat weight, wrong dimensions, wrong stone identification) is a very common policy.

For myself, and I consider myself an experienced colored gemstone collector, if I bought this Tourmaline based on the single photo of the listing and found the secondary hue to be yellow and not blue, I would have followed the return policy and sought a refund of the purchase price, less shipping.

Just my 2 cents.

Well said. We always advise newcomers not just to rely on photos, but to ask questions - what is the level of saturation? What are the modifiers? How much extinction does it have? Are the photos accurate? Would a hand shot be possible...the list goes on and on. If a newcomer here had bought just on a photo, we likely would have advised them to ask questions too before purchasing.

 

[Gem Hunters]

so many folk shooting me done in flames. I rarely have a stone asked to be returned. My photos are all taken in different lights - I try to be good at taking photos - I've never had such damning talk about me. I asked for the gemstone to be returned - OTL in his own gem listings policy is 'all sales a final" in loupe troupe, but I try to work with clients to get the stone they want right for them first or if not as described or not happy send it back for purchase refund, I got some quite rude emails from OTL. And now such comments here in this forum.
I don't understand the personal attacks on me - the actual gem does not look like the buyers photos he has posted. Really cruel, freedom of speech is good, not like this though. I have built up gemhunters.com.au with a commitment to honesty and working well with gemstone buyers. Cruel words thrown at me over what is actually a very nice tourmaline - there is no blue paper on background to deceive anyone, no blue in the green gemstone or mentioned in listing, its a white background and for some reason the light goes blue - its something to do with the camera, there is no false representation, there are a few photos of the green tourmaline in my websites listing of this, and all our gems listings - all in different lights and angles, so an informed decision can be made and I always welcome questions from buyers that want to ask more questions about a gem before they buy.

I wont wade in again, but try to understand a sellers point of view, we try to get the photos correct, and succeed quite well, normally people are good, just a bit of a shock to see some of the things you've written.

 

[VapidLapid]

Color is one of the hardest things to describe correctly and to photograph accurately - and depending on geographic locations, your natural light may differ quite a bit from another person's natural light.

In this case, the OP is saying the color of the stone as shown in the listing (appearing bluish-green) does not match the color she sees in real life (appearing yellowish-green) - as most of us know, this is an extremely common complaint/problem with colored gemstone purchases over the Internet, and in particular when it comes to green Tourmalines.

I have very often seen Tourmalines like the one photographed by the OP described as "mint green." I have also seen green stones photographed against blue backgrounds so that a yellow secondary hue is neutralized, so to speak. Certainly, I think most would agree buying a stone based on color shown in a single photo is a bit of a crap-shoot.

Not refunding shipping costs unless an item is listed incorrectly (i.e., wrong carat weight, wrong dimensions, wrong stone identification) is a very common policy.

For myself, and I consider myself an experienced colored gemstone collector, if I bought this Tourmaline based on the single photo of the listing and found the secondary hue to be yellow and not blue, I would have followed the return policy and sought a refund of the purchase price, less shipping.

Just my 2 cents.

Well said. We always advise newcomers not just to rely on photos, but to ask questions - what is the level of saturation? What are the modifiers? How much extinction does it have? Are the photos accurate? Would a hand shot be possible...the list goes on and on. If a newcomer here had bought just on a photo, we likely would have advised them to ask questions too before purchasing.

Minous is absolutely right. There may be more going on when a seasoned collector buys without asking the basic questions.

eta: I have asked the Mods to remove my previous post from this thread.

 

[Marlow]

Gem Hunter,

whether OTL sells her own gems on LT as final sale has NOTHING to do with **edited by moderator, please make sure posts comply with our policies**

YOU are an internet vendor - a professional!!

OTL is neither picky here nor she regret buying ( spending money for something she don't really need) - she wanted a bluishgreen tourmaline and got really poor colored stone.

What would you do if a wholesale vendor send you such a quality!!

I am really pissed that some vendor call us amateurs, semi professionals....

We are a community of gem stone lover - we share knowledge and support each other.

You should be glad to find experienced customer - selling a fine tourmaline to OTL and she would be happy and post the stone.
And the vendor!! Maybe you think about it.

 

[T L]

so many folk shooting me done in flames. I rarely have a stone asked to be returned. My photos are all taken in different lights - I try to be good at taking photos - I've never had such damning talk about me. I asked for the gemstone to be returned - OTL in his own gem listings policy is 'all sales a final" in loupe troupe, but I try to work with clients to get the stone they want right for them first or if not as described or not happy send it back for purchase refund, I got some quite rude emails from OTL. And now such comments here in this forum.
I don't understand the personal attacks on me - the actual gem does not look like the buyers photos he has posted. Really cruel, freedom of speech is good, not like this though. I have built up gemhunters.com.au with a commitment to honesty and working well with gemstone buyers. Cruel words thrown at me over what is actually a very nice tourmaline - there is no blue paper on background to deceive anyone, no blue in the green gemstone or mentioned in listing, its a white background and for some reason the light goes blue - its something to do with the camera, there is no false representation, there are a few photos of the green tourmaline in my websites listing of this, and all our gems listings - all in different lights and angles, so an informed decision can be made and I always welcome questions from buyers that want to ask more questions about a gem before they buy.

I wont wade in again, but try to understand a sellers point of view, we try to get the photos correct, and succeed quite well, normally people are good, just a bit of a shock to see some of the things you've written.

To be honest, you should always photograph on a more neutral background, not a blue one, as your photo was depicted.
Grey, white or off white are good neutral backgrounds, and I would also avoid overly dark backgronds.

As for your comment, " its a white background and for some reason the light goes blue," I suspect your white balance is off, which may account for the background being blue, and if that's the case, then the gem is not going to be depicted the correct hue in your photo.

Natural diffused light is also a good light source to photograph gems as well.

I hope you take the lighting/photography recommendations as constructive and not as personal attacks. Returns are never fun for vendors, so it's easier to take the proper precautions when photographing gemstones.

OTL is not a trade member, but privately sells gems on her own. Members of the trade are held to higher expectations when it comes to returns.

 

[GregS]

If it looks to good to be true more often then not it is. $100 ppc for the stone in the vendors picture would be my first clue that something was wrong. Had the stone been as pictured I'd expect it to fetch atleast 4 times that amount. The stone you received is priced fairly for what it is, a clean, nicely cut yellowish/brownish green Tourmaline. Your dissapointment is well deserved.

 

[GliderPoss]

I think the crux of the issue is the photos. We all know it can be difficult to photograph gems accurately and often what the eye sees is not how the photo turns out!

What would be more useful in this situation is detailed comments on the individual stone ie. "Photo shows more blue/mint colour but stone has no blue modifier in real life and is less saturated" thereby giving buyers a more accurate idea of what to expect with their purchase. I note many other PS vendors do this really well.

 

[Coco914]

I concur with what was stated about the benefits of listing observable differences between a gemstone's photo and what the stone looks like in "real life" right in the written description of the gem. Transparency is always best and reduces the incidence of future hardship for both the buyer and seller. In this case, the photos shown with the description of the stone are much more saturated than the actual stone and I find it difficult to believe that this wasn't intentional. Yes, buyers should ask questions prior to making a purchase. I agree. However, that does not negate the responsibility of the seller. Pictures are considered a part of the description. Also, when reading the actual description of the gemstone, the buyer states that the color is mint and then goes on to state that the stone is a rare, highly sought after color. From what I have seen, the stone doesn't appear to be either (though the cut is very nice). So, aside from using the word "mint", nothing in the seller's description is very accurate. It's quite misleading.

What I find especially disturbing in this case is the tone of seller and the way she is polluting the issue with remarks regarding the buyer's LT listings and other nonsense. The remarks are unprofessional and certainly, having so many potential buyers read them can only serve to hurt her business with potential buyers who visit this site. I also find it curious that another buyer made contact about returning a stone and was talked into keeping it.

This is a consumer forum, OTL was posting about her own experiences with the vendor. It's not right or wrong, it's simply HER experience which was not a positive one.

 

[OTL]

I am Trudy from gem hunters - two sides to every story- I asked the stone to be returned, I would rather have the green tourmaline back and resell to someone that appreciates the gem. However buyer has a put in paypal dispute wanting full refund and has not posted the gem back. Buyer has taken his photo in washed out light, an old trick and is using pricescope users comments in his paypal dispute against me.Clearly states on my website that I am in Bangkok for some time (while Lou is teaching custom cutting here). We travel allot in the gem trade. Please just post the tourmaline back OTL as I have asked, then refund of puchase price will be given - a reasonable request. I am sorry you all don't like this green tourmaline - it is quite a nice gem and is like photos if taken in good light. Im not on any tv show - sorry.

I don't usually go to PS on weekends, I'm glad tonight I did and found your surprising comments.
Checking my listing on LP, and using private sale to compare to your business?
Saying I have sent you very rude emails?
Please provide proof. Which part which word is rude.

I have not done as bad as you asking me to be respectful and honest. Ask a buyer to be that just because buyer not like the stone and want to return? Really?

I am not using PS comments on paypal dispute as well. I didn't include a link or quote any words. If you like, I can provide paypal more information with pictures and let them decide.

What is the problem of me opening a case on paypal? That's a common step if you bought something and not worked out with seller, isn't it? Why does that supposed to make me look bad? I will let the paypal specialists decide what to do.

You will have the stone back as I am in no way wanting to keep this pastel olive color tourmaline.

 

[VapidLapid]

Without the stone in hand there is no way to know which "side to take" or at least favor. My reflexes told me to side with the consumer, but when tempered with reason I realized I did not have enough information to judge EITHER side.

Things are seldom what they seem.

 

[OTL]

so many folk shooting me done in flames. I rarely have a stone asked to be returned. My photos are all taken in different lights - I try to be good at taking photos - I've never had such damning talk about me. I asked for the gemstone to be returned - OTL in his own gem listings policy is 'all sales a final" in loupe troupe, but I try to work with clients to get the stone they want right for them first or if not as described or not happy send it back for purchase refund, I got some quite rude emails from OTL. And now such comments here in this forum.
I don't understand the personal attacks on me - the actual gem does not look like the buyers photos he has posted. Really cruel, freedom of speech is good, not like this though. I have built up gemhunters.com.au with a commitment to honesty and working well with gemstone buyers. Cruel words thrown at me over what is actually a very nice tourmaline - there is no blue paper on background to deceive anyone, no blue in the green gemstone or mentioned in listing, its a white background and for some reason the light goes blue - its something to do with the camera, there is no false representation, there are a few photos of the green tourmaline in my websites listing of this, and all our gems listings - all in different lights and angles, so an informed decision can be made and I always welcome questions from buyers that want to ask more questions about a gem before they buy.

I wont wade in again, but try to understand a sellers point of view, we try to get the photos correct, and succeed quite well, normally people are good, just a bit of a shock to see some of the things you've written.

Please provide proof of the quite rude emails What have I done to qualify a personal attach? Please enlighten me.

Yes, no blue is mentioned in the listing, but it is clearly shown in your photo. Photo is a big part of the item description. Don't you agree? And by highly sought after color in the market I don't assume pastel olive is. If for some reason the light goes blue, then you should at least mention it in the description, right? It can really avoid a lot of trouble. And what about the difference in saturation? Also for some reason? I have provided pictures with the stone on my hand, whether or not the picture is washed out can be easily seen. I welcome other people to buy this stone after I return to see whether seller's photo represent well.

Even your 2nd time pictures, all the yellowish ones look different from each other.
It's a really hard thing to buy stone based on all these diff pics. Especially nothing represents the stone well.

Again, don't understand why I shouldn't open a case on paypal?

 

[OTL]

Gem Hunter,

whether OTL sells her own gems on LT as final sale has NOTHING to do with **edited by moderator, please make sure posts comply with our policies**

YOU are an internet vendor - a professional!!

OTL is neither picky here nor she regret buying ( spending money for something she don't really need) - she wanted a bluishgreen tourmaline and got really poor colored stone.

What would you do if a wholesale vendor send you such a quality!!

I am really pissed that some vendor call us amateurs, semi professionals....

We are a community of gem stone lover - we share knowledge and support each other.

You should be glad to find experienced customer - selling a fine tourmaline to OTL and she would be happy and post the stone.
And the vendor!! Maybe you think about it.

Thank you Marlow

I really don't want to see Trudy went all the way to LP and clearly searched me on the internet, comparing my 2nd hand private sale to her business, and somehow using it to against me.

 

[minousbijoux]

Well the good news:

OTL, you get to return the stone and get a refund - that is the best we can ever hope for, really.

GemHunter: you may now feel more comfortable with what the photography experts here call "post production" photo editing. This is where, through such tools as iphoto or Preview, one can modify the color and other aspects of the photo to make it more closely match what you see in hand. We have all been there when the photos we take, for whatever reason, have the color skewed, showing for example everything in the photo tinted slightly bluish or greenish or pinkish. As the photographers, we know this happens when the white really doesn't look white, but pinkish, or greenish, or, like in your photo, bluish. Please understand that taking good photos is a skill. The good news is that you will find many threads here with excellent tips on how to take good, representative photos of gemstones, and many, many of us here willing to offer tips to anyone who asks questions.

OTL/GemHunter: you have reminded us all that the he said/she said does nothing but aggravate. Nothing will be resolved in the court of public opinion, except to end up potentially vilifying both of you.

GemHunter: you are new here. I am sorry that this was your introduction to PS. But just know that attacking someone personally (in this case, by delving into how a private gem aficionado sells stones from their private collection), even if you feel a need to do so to defend yourself, will never play well. It is just not justified.

OTL: in case you had any doubt, you get to be reminded of the power of your words and the clout of PS.

Points have been made. Let's all move on.

 

[LoversKites]

+1 to MB's great post.

 

[chrono]

As VL wrote, I do not have the stone in hand, do not know the full story and thus cannot take sides. That said, I have many cents to share with both OTL and GemHunter in moving forward. Feel free to ignore my soapbox but know that I write this with kind intentions, not to flame.

OTL,
One cannot presume anything. No picture is wholly accurate and not every vendor is a seasoned vendor. Therefore, if the picture shows a blue modifier, do not presume it is there. If there is no mention of it in the listing, do not presume it is there. Always email the vendor to confirm. If the price seems too good to be true (low price for a highly sought after colour), then there is all the more reason to question the vendor before purchasing. I have seen washed out yellow green tourmaline listed as mint green tourmaline from other vendors in the PS CS list. Also, many vendors do not have the time or wish to take the time to practise photography. They would rather use that time to handle other aspects of the business, which is time consuming enough. Another important practise is to open the case with PayPal as the last resort. I only do this if the vendor refuses to refund me my money. I always work with the vendor first via email, informing him/her of my intent to return the stone and usually this goes very smoothly. If they balk or refuse, only then do I open a PayPal dispute. To do so without reaching out to the vendor first shows a strong distrust of the vendor and can easily sour the business transaction/relationship.

GemHunter,
I am sorry for your first experience in PS but I agree that we tend to err on the side of caution and side with seasoned members first, due to trust and familiarity. OTL is not a vendor, and hence sales are generally final because consumers just want the stone sold and do not have the time to send it out multiple times until the right buyer comes along. With this, prices are also generally lower. My guess for the inaccurate colouration is due to the white balance being off, which is why your white background turned blue. This can be corrected easily by making the right adjustments on your camera setting. In addition, if it still doesn't look right to you, adding a disclaimer that the colour is actually "so and so" goes a long way in giving the potential buyer a good idea of what to expect, hence increasing the chance of customer satisfaction and decreasing the return rate (and shipping cost). I agree that your policy of having many pictures and being willing to answer questions is a very positive practise but the more you can do to increase the accuracy of the pictures and description will be helpful in the long run. On the by, I checked out your website but did not see any mention of a return or refund policy.

 

[OTL]

Chrono:

I tried to contact seller first via email, but seller's resolution or attitude didn't suit me. Hence, I went to paypal.

I don't think I can work anything out with him/her.
And it is proved again by seeing another buyer's return experience and her comment here(I have sent her very rude emails? searched me on LT and compare my return policy?) I can provide full email content, afterall I have only sent her 2 short emails. But unless necessary I don't want all the trouble, really.

I don't think this part is done in the wrong way


To all:

I am recently pregnant and really am trying to avoid all the bad mojo, I don't want things to get worse or more lengthy discuss with the seller. I will just let Paypal decide whatever to do next. I hope to move on as quickly as possible.

Thanks to all.

 

[minousbijoux]

Congratulations on your pregnancy - that certainly trumps all!

 

[chrono]

A congratulatory wish from me too, on your pregnancy.

 

[T L]

Me three! Congratulations OTL!