1.5 carat VS2 cushion cut - how does it look?

[pfunk]

WOW testosterone in the diamond world - I as an inexperienced person can not make head nor tail of the cut score system.

One diamond had a score of 56 and looked amazing another was a score of 98 and looked disgusting

Why don't you drop the scoring system it seems your using it to push poor quality diamonds

Please do elaborate. Were these fancy or round? Do you have links to the stones? Did you see these in person or on the website videos?

 

[Sphene]

PFunk do you work for them

 

[Mayk]

PFunk do you work for them

+1. Like they would ever tell you, but certainly there are some posts/posters on this thread that would raise a few eyebrows to someone sitting on the sidelines, like me, watching it develop.

 

[toldani]

No, pfunk is just someone who likes the way our system works. Same way Rocky Raccoon is someone who dislikes it. I forgot if pfunk is a former customer or not. (I don't handle sales)

 

[pfunk]

PFunk do you work for them

I've already been blasted by TLeaguer, Chihuahua, now you and Mayk. Look at my history if you must before asking me if I work for them. I came on back in December, bought a diamond from JA, sent it back, bought a diamond from enchanted, had a great experience at BOTH places. I am stating my OWN opinion wherever I post. I am not in ANY WAY affiliated with ED, simply a happy customer who ,like I have said before, is as happy to give positive reviews as I am negative ones. When you are done investigating me I would love to go back to talking about your experiences with the "cut score".

If half of you actually cared about adding some content and substance to your posts we might actually get something constructive done to fix whatever you hate about the cut score. Like I said, I find it helpful and am apparently wasting my time explaining why. No one seems to see the benefit that I do. Or they just loathe ED enough to not want to see the benefit.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don't think he works for them. He is just a proponent of value for the money and does not feel top cut quality is worth the extra money. He is defending his own decision. I understand his thinking especially when budget and specs desired don't work with superideal cuts. I, however, prefer superideal cuts because I enjoy having a high level of craftsmanship as I look at every piece of diamond jewelry I buy as a future heirloom. People vary, as Kenny says.

( I was writing this before I saw his post.)

 

[Sphene]

No, pfunk is just someone who likes the way our system works. Same way Rocky Raccoon is someone who dislikes it. I forgot if pfunk is a former customer or not. (I don't handle sales)

Well I don't get the score system but then I dont have to buy from you.

I do feel sorry for the person who has had their thread hijacked

 

[pfunk]

I don't think he works for them. He is just a proponent of value for the money and does not feel top cut quality is worth the extra money. He is defending his own decision. I understand his thinking especially when budget and specs desired don't work with superideal cuts. I, however, prefer superideal cuts because I enjoy having a high level of craftsmanship as I look at every piece of diamond jewelry I buy as a future heirloom. People vary, as Kenny says.

Thank you DS. I appreciate your input as someone who has been here for a long time and is trusted in the community. I hope it goes a long way in establishing some credibility for me at least. I am here to discuss diamonds and learn. I have stated exactly why I like the cut score system for ROUNDS. I established the reasons WHY I like it with Rocky but then he/she disappeared. Like I have stated, for rounds, it seems to be pretty reliable at helping consumers stick to proportions that are LIKELY to perform well if they stay at the "ideal" range of ED's cut score. It absolutely helps to keep them from ending up with a diamond cut more towards the edges of GIA excellent that is LESS LIKELY to perform well. It is useful for those consumers who don't also know about HCA, idealscopes, ASETS, and any other technology the average consumer does not bother to seek out.

Yet people here will insist that "you need more info". Absolutely you need more info if you are a cut fanatic and want to make sure your diamond doesn't leak anywhere. Or doesn't have upper girdles that return low intensity light. Or doesn't have crown painting. That is all fine and if you want all those checks in place, GREAT! More power to you for taking your education on diamonds to the next level. But you are all so quick to forget about the great majority of diamond buyers who never see pricescope, but yet may stumble across enchanted diamonds cut score. Does it help them if that is the only tool they stumble across and start plugging in GIA report numbers from their local B&M? I say ABSOLUTELY it does (for rounds). I am not in support of its use for fancy shapes, to be clear. My experience with rounds HAS shown it to be useful.

 

[pfunk]

WOW testosterone in the diamond world - I as an inexperienced person can not make head nor tail of the cut score system.

One diamond had a score of 56 and looked amazing another was a score of 98 and looked disgusting

Why don't you drop the scoring system it seems your using it to push poor quality diamonds

Now that I have explained my intentions here, do you care to share more info about this? I for one would love to see what might have been the cause for this discrepancy between what you saw and what the cut score said. Again, if you have links to the stones or more info it would be helpful.

If you are going to make claims that they are trying to "push poor quality diamonds" you should be explaining why you feel that way, not simply making an accusation and leaving the discussion.

 

[Sphene]

WOW testosterone in the diamond world - I as an inexperienced person can not make head nor tail of the cut score system.

One diamond had a score of 56 and looked amazing another was a score of 98 and looked disgusting

Why don't you drop the scoring system it seems your using it to push poor quality diamonds

Now that I have explained my intentions here, do you care to share more info about this? I for one would love to see what might have been the cause for this discrepancy between what you saw and what the cut score said. Again, if you have links to the stones or more info it would be helpful.

If you are going to make claims that they are trying to "push poor quality diamonds" you should be explaining why you feel that way, not simply making an accusation and leaving the discussion.

I havent left the discussion I have been looking on the site for the 2 diamonds, but as it was a month ago so far I have had no luck.

But I will keep looking and if I find them I will post back so no doubt you can have another go at someone on this site

If you dont work for them why do you care so much about my view of their score system seems very intense

I thought this site was just for diamond lovers not people pushing vendors

 

[toldani]

Sorry for setting off a powderkeg... I just created a login because I was excited that someone was talking about the Reddit AMA that I did here. As the guy who wrote most of the code for our (Enchanted Diamonds) scoring system, I could probably answer questions in another thread, if that would be more appropriate.

 

[pfunk]

WOW testosterone in the diamond world - I as an inexperienced person can not make head nor tail of the cut score system.

One diamond had a score of 56 and looked amazing another was a score of 98 and looked disgusting

Why don't you drop the scoring system it seems your using it to push poor quality diamonds

Now that I have explained my intentions here, do you care to share more info about this? I for one would love to see what might have been the cause for this discrepancy between what you saw and what the cut score said. Again, if you have links to the stones or more info it would be helpful.

If you are going to make claims that they are trying to "push poor quality diamonds" you should be explaining why you feel that way, not simply making an accusation and leaving the discussion.

I havent left the discussion I have been looking on the site for the 2 diamonds, but as it was a month ago so far I have had no luck.

But I will keep looking and if I find them I will post back so no doubt you can have another go at someone on this site

If you dont work for them why do you care so much about my view of their score system seems very intense

I thought this site was just for diamond lovers not people pushing vendors

I'm not here to push any vendor and your persistence at suggesting that only proves ignorance. I do hope you are able to locate the diamonds, but in the case you are not, you can certainly share why you feel the point of the cut score appears to be to "push poor quality diamonds". It is one thing to have a cut score system that doesnt work well, and quite another to have a score system that falsely identifies poor diamonds as good ones intentionally to sell them to uninformed consumers. The latter is what you are suggesting.

Why do I care about your view on their score system? Because if there is a flaw in it that you have identified then we should encourage them to fix it to HELP OTHER PEOPLE. If you think it is junk share WHY. What good is it for you to join the conversation if all you bring to it is "i saw an ugly 98 and a pretty 56... They are just pushing poor diamonds"?

 

[pfunk]

Sorry for setting off a powderkeg... I just created a login because I was excited that someone was talking about the Reddit AMA that I did here. As the guy who wrote most of the code for our (Enchanted Diamonds) scoring system, I could probably answer questions in another thread, if that would be more appropriate.

I think this is a good idea and encourage you to start a new discussion in fairness to the OP. My apologies for helping sidetrack the thread.

 

[Sphene]

WOW testosterone in the diamond world - I as an inexperienced person can not make head nor tail of the cut score system.

One diamond had a score of 56 and looked amazing another was a score of 98 and looked disgusting

Why don't you drop the scoring system it seems your using it to push poor quality diamonds

Now that I have explained my intentions here, do you care to share more info about this? I for one would love to see what might have been the cause for this discrepancy between what you saw and what the cut score said. Again, if you have links to the stones or more info it would be helpful.

If you are going to make claims that they are trying to "push poor quality diamonds" you should be explaining why you feel that way, not simply making an accusation and leaving the discussion.

I havent left the discussion I have been looking on the site for the 2 diamonds, but as it was a month ago so far I have had no luck.

But I will keep looking and if I find them I will post back so no doubt you can have another go at someone on this site

If you dont work for them why do you care so much about my view of their score system seems very intense

I thought this site was just for diamond lovers not people pushing vendors

I'm not here to push any vendor and your persistence at suggesting that only proves ignorance. I do hope you are able to locate the diamonds, but in the case you are not, you can certainly share why you feel the point of the cut score appears to be to "push poor quality diamonds". It is one thing to have a cut score system that doesnt work well, and quite another to have a score system that falsely identifies poor diamonds as good ones intentionally to sell them to uninformed consumers. The latter is what you are suggesting.

Why do I care about your view on their score system? Because if their is a flaw in it that you have identified then we should encourage them to fix it to HELP OTHER PEOPLE. If you think it is junk share WHY. What good is it for you to join the conversation if all you bring to it is "i saw an ugly 98 and a pretty 56... They are just pushing poor diamonds"?

Maybe it was a poor chose of words and maybe with my lack of knowledge I shall go back on the site and see if I can form a better understanding of this system you hold in such good stead. You are a very intense person.

 

[RockyRacoon]

I have stated exactly why I like the cut score system for ROUNDS. I established the reasons WHY I like it with Rocky but then he/she disappeared.

I did not disappear.

There is nothing to debate here - you think the system is viable, and I've told you why it inherently isn't. You have the right to your opinion.

I am a man, by the way.

 

[pfunk]

I have stated exactly why I like the cut score system for ROUNDS. I established the reasons WHY I like it with Rocky but then he/she disappeared.

I did not disappear.

There is nothing to debate here - you think the system is viable, and I've told you why it inherently isn't. You have the right to your opinion.

I am a man, by the way.

I disagree. What I would debate is your statement that ALL the HCA does is tell you that you need more info. That is in my opinion not an accurate statement. It weeds out proportion sets that are likely to perform poorly. It passes stones that are likely to perform well but which should be investigated further. It does more than tell you "you need more info". The cut score for rounds will do the consumer the same service of ruling out proportions that are highly likely poor performers. You don't agree with that?

 

[RockyRacoon]

I have stated exactly why I like the cut score system for ROUNDS. I established the reasons WHY I like it with Rocky but then he/she disappeared.

I did not disappear.

There is nothing to debate here - you think the system is viable, and I've told you why it inherently isn't. You have the right to your opinion.

I am a man, by the way.

I disagree. What I would debate is your statement that ALL the HCA does is tell you that you need more info. That is in my opinion not an accurate statement. It weeds out proportion sets that are likely to perform poorly. It passes stones that are likely to perform well but which should be investigated further. It does more than tell you "you need more info". The cut score for rounds will do the consumer the same service of ruling out proportions that are highly likely poor performers. You don't agree with that?

I will try to make this simple.

HCA is a rejection tool. 2.0 is no better than .6. Cut score is a rating out of 100. In this system, a 99 is better than a 96. That is not info you can get from the GIA cert and any attempt to say that you can is wrong, at best, and possibly misleading.

Again, nothing here to debate.

 

[pfunk]

I have stated exactly why I like the cut score system for ROUNDS. I established the reasons WHY I like it with Rocky but then he/she disappeared.

I did not disappear.

There is nothing to debate here - you think the system is viable, and I've told you why it inherently isn't. You have the right to your opinion.

I am a man, by the way.

I disagree. What I would debate is your statement that ALL the HCA does is tell you that you need more info. That is in my opinion not an accurate statement. It weeds out proportion sets that are likely to perform poorly. It passes stones that are likely to perform well but which should be investigated further. It does more than tell you "you need more info". The cut score for rounds will do the consumer the same service of ruling out proportions that are highly likely poor performers. You don't agree with that?

I will try to make this simple.

HCA is a rejection tool. 2.0 is no better than .6. Cut score is a rating out of 100. In this system, a 99 is better than a 96. That is not info you can get from the GIA cert and any attempt to say that you can is wrong, at best, and possibly misleading.

Again, nothing here to debate.

I will try my hand at making things simple as well.
On the HCA, is a 1.5 better than a 5.0? On the cut score, is a 97 better than a 70? Yes, and yes. If the 97 and the 70 are both GIA excellent (entirely possible) does the cut score do its job of helping steer the customer to the diamond much more likely to perform well?


I said a long time ago that I can see the cut score being much less useful for those consumers who are cut nuts and want more information than a simple rejection tool. But for the people who don't stumble across pricescope or the HCA, the cut score is more than a "marketing gimmick". It's a pretty darn reliable guide actually IMO.

I agree that the 100 point scale is questionable when you start trying to compare diamonds that score very similarly on the cut score. A stone that scores 95 might indeed have better performance that one scoring 97 because of rounding and averaging.

But far more commonly you will find consumers that aren't as educated as you or anyone else on pricescope. Lets use my example from earlier. John Doe is shopping shane co for a diamond for his sweetie. He goes home with 2 in mind, one a shane co "excellent" and one a "shane classic" cut. He is debating whether he should spend the extra money to get the "Shane Classic" because, afterall, he couldn't see much difference in the store but the salesman did say Shane Classics are the best cut diamonds. He finds the calculator and runs the diamonds through it only to find out the shane classic is cut much worse (scores 65) than the "excellent" (scores 97). Whaaaat? How can that be? Only 1% of the worlds diamonds would qualify for "shane classic" cut!!!

Point being, just because it isnt useful for YOU to pick out which of 2 ideal cuts is better, doesn't mean it isn't a useful system and only a marketing gimmick.

 

[Chihuahua6]

The 1.5 carat VS2 cushion cut in the title of this post is still available from Enchanted Diamonds if anyone is interested in buying it.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C150-JGJLGE

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The 1.5 carat VS2 cushion cut in the title of this post is still available from Enchanted Diamonds if anyone is interested in buying it.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/C150-JGJLGE

I JUST looked at the link myself and was coming here to say the SAME THING!!! I had left that page up and refreshed it and it magically isn't sold anymore!

I gave ED as much latitude as I could since they were new, but I am done.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

Its a database update issue we've been having... Im sure our CTO Tom could elaborate better than I could.

Basically, if the supplier doesnt take it down in time - sometimes it gets added back in our Morning updates....

Actually a few people have complained about it, and we are working on addressing the problem ASAP.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Pfunk, you and I agree on a lot, actually. Thanks for your kind comments.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Joshua, this is just way too much of a coincidence to be believed. First for the original poster to post a stone that he said he bought and was not marked sold a day later and none of you noticed that until someone here mentioned it? Then you marked it sold and it accidentally became unmarked on its own and at 9pm or so tonight we see it still unsold???

I am not sure I have ever used this emoticon, but it seems useful now.

 

[toldani]

Sorry. This is actually a problem that's mentioned on our FAQ page for our site. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to our site, but suffice to say, the FAQ is pretty easy to find.

Basically, we list a lot of diamonds from a lot of different suppliers. Sometimes a supplier will claim to be selling a diamond that's part of another supplier's inventory. So we'll buy the diamond from the one supplier, but the other supplier will still list it as part of their inventory, because they can be really slow to update their inventory lists sometimes. So the next day, we'll get a new inventory list from one of these "slow" suppliers that claims to have inventory that they don't have. And as a result, that diamond will get listed as available. When I originally wrote the database code to update these lists, I didn't take into account that suppliers would do things like this, since it didn't seem logical to have multiple suppliers listing the same diamond in their inventory. It still isn't logical, but it is what it is, and I have to redo a lot of code in order to account for the fact that it happens.

One of the ways that we're able to keep prices low is by our willingness to work with polishers and suppliers who have great stones, but really, really bad IT. So we have to take the good with the bad there.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Sorry. This is actually a problem that's mentioned on our FAQ page for our site. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to our site, but suffice to say, the FAQ is pretty easy to find.

Basically, we list a lot of diamonds from a lot of different suppliers. Sometimes a supplier will claim to be selling a diamond that's part of another supplier's inventory. So we'll buy the diamond from the one supplier, but the other supplier will still list it as part of their inventory, because they can be really slow to update their inventory lists sometimes. So the next day, we'll get a new inventory list from one of these "slow" suppliers that claims to have inventory that they don't have. And as a result, that diamond will get listed as available. When I originally wrote the database code to update these lists, I didn't take into account that suppliers would do things like this, since it didn't seem logical to have multiple suppliers listing the same diamond in their inventory. It still isn't logical, but it is what it is, and I have to redo a lot of code in order to account for the fact that it happens.

One of the ways that we're able to keep prices low is by our willingness to work with polishers and suppliers who have great stones, but really, really bad IT. So we have to take the good with the bad there.

If you willingly list diamonds from suppliers that you know are really, really bad at IT, how do you verify that the diagnostic information they are providing is accurate?

 

[toldani]

If you willingly list diamonds from suppliers that you know are really, really bad at IT, how do you verify that the diagnostic information they are providing is accurate?

By calling them, and by cross-referencing their cert numbers via GIA's website. These suppliers are fine otherwise, their information technology is just 20 years behind the times. And that's part of the reason we never drop ship; we always inspect every stone in our New York offices before sending it out to the customer.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Sorry. This is actually a problem that's mentioned on our FAQ page for our site. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to our site, but suffice to say, the FAQ is pretty easy to find.

Basically, we list a lot of diamonds from a lot of different suppliers. Sometimes a supplier will claim to be selling a diamond that's part of another supplier's inventory. So we'll buy the diamond from the one supplier, but the other supplier will still list it as part of their inventory, because they can be really slow to update their inventory lists sometimes. So the next day, we'll get a new inventory list from one of these "slow" suppliers that claims to have inventory that they don't have. And as a result, that diamond will get listed as available. When I originally wrote the database code to update these lists, I didn't take into account that suppliers would do things like this, since it didn't seem logical to have multiple suppliers listing the same diamond in their inventory. It still isn't logical, but it is what it is, and I have to redo a lot of code in order to account for the fact that it happens.

One of the ways that we're able to keep prices low is by our willingness to work with polishers and suppliers who have great stones, but really, really bad IT. So we have to take the good with the bad there.

Joshua, Jonathan, Toldani,

Forgive me, but reading this reply the other day got me thinking, and I cannot help but feeling that you seem to need some fatherly advice. It is clear that you, as the new guys on the block, have created quite a stir in our community, and as an oldtimer here, I cannot help but feel sympathy for your youthful enthusiasm, while I am shaking my head about all the errors that you could avoid. I even start getting the impression that you are using the PS-forums as a means to find the inefficiencies/errors in your organization, much more than as a channel for your sales. Most importantly, as we clearly are not in competition with each other, I hope that you allow me following questions as well-meant fatherly advice.

- Specifically, on this situation of certain of your suppliers offering diamonds for sale which are not technically theirs or under their full control, this is a major problem to address. PS as a community is extremely sensitive to bait-and-switch-tactics, and if you do not urgently find a system to solve this problem, this is going to hurt your reputation.

- Reading elsewhere that there is a difference between your company's view on cut-quality and the personal opinions of one key-person, I do not understand. Fatherly advice: everyone is entitled to his personal opinion, but when you are representing a company, you would better not defend a personal opinion, contrary to the company-line.

- Talking about your cut-score, here is a question or idea: Why do you even bother listing stones that have a cut-score below 100? From what I read, you do not seem eager to sell these anyway, so why confuse the public with listings of such stones?

- Finally, and this is an important one: You all seem to be working very hard on making this company a success, spending a lot of time on this forum and in direct communication with your customers. Kudos for that, I can only appreciate well-meant hard work. At the same time, I see you spending a lot on advertising and other affiliate-expenses. Fatherly advice: Do make sure that you have your incoming and outgoing under control, and that enough is left to reward you for your hard work. If you are now spending a lot of time on individual sales and on individual interactions with consumers, do not expect that to decrease. Your business seems to be built upon achieving high volumes with minimal net-margins. Did you really think this through in the medium-term?

I hope that you appreciate my candor. I must say, I still remember the few persons who set me straight in the beginning of my career, when I thought I was ready to rule the world.

Live long,

 

[BarbBe]

I'm reading these posts and feel a bit concerned. I too have tried to purchase 2 diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds.

The first diamond was paid for in full and I was then told it was told that the supplier sold it to another vendor. "I hate when that happens. "
I did indeed see the stone with another vendor at a 15% higher price. When I mentioned this to the sales associate on the phone , she told me that they could try to get the diamond but at a higher price.
This was not an option for me. She did offer me another diamond but this was by no means comparable as far as cut goes.

As ED already had usd 15000 of my money, I asked then to look into a stone j saw with another PS drop shipment vendor. The stone was listed with the other vendor at usd 20700. Joshua responsed that he could not match this price and that I should purchase through the other vendor. The stone was no longer available from the othere vendor at this point. Be aware, ED still has my money.

I continued to look at ED inventory and the above stone appears again in their inventory at usd 13700. I then chat online with Joshua who confirms the price.

I then let Joshua know that it is indeed me he is chatting with and that I don't understand how this is possible. He says that he will get back to me. Two reminder emails later he responds that the diamond is no longer available and that he will look for other options. I have not heard back from him in a week and my money has been with him a month now.

 

[pfunk]

I'm reading these posts and feel a bit concerned. I too have tried to purchase 2 diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds.

The first diamond was paid for in full and I was then told it was told that the supplier sold it to another vendor. "I hate when that happens. "
I did indeed see the stone with another vendor at a 15% higher price. When I mentioned this to the sales associate on the phone , she told me that they could try to get the diamond but at a higher price.
This was not an option for me. She did offer me another diamond but this was by no means comparable as far as cut goes.

As ED already had usd 15000 of my money, I asked then to look into a stone j saw with another PS drop shipment vendor. The stone was listed with the other vendor at usd 20700. Joshua responsed that he could not match this price and that I should purchase through the other vendor. The stone was no longer available from the othere vendor at this point. Be aware, ED still has my money.

I continued to look at ED inventory and the above stone appears again in their inventory at usd 13700. I then chat online with Joshua who confirms the price.

I then let Joshua know that it is indeed me he is chatting with and that I don't understand how this is possible. He says that he will get back to me. Two reminder emails later he responds that the diamond is no longer available and that he will look for other options. I have not heard back from him in a week and my money has been with him a month now.

This isn't good to hear at all. I hope that ED chimes in here with an explanation of what is going on and gets your money back to you right away if you want it. Have you asked for your money back so that you can just start over fresh with any vendor you may choose? Have they tried preventing you from getting your money back?

 

[RockyRacoon]

I'm reading these posts and feel a bit concerned. I too have tried to purchase 2 diamonds from Enchanted Diamonds.

The first diamond was paid for in full and I was then told it was told that the supplier sold it to another vendor. "I hate when that happens. "
I did indeed see the stone with another vendor at a 15% higher price. When I mentioned this to the sales associate on the phone , she told me that they could try to get the diamond but at a higher price.
This was not an option for me. She did offer me another diamond but this was by no means comparable as far as cut goes.

As ED already had usd 15000 of my money, I asked then to look into a stone j saw with another PS drop shipment vendor. The stone was listed with the other vendor at usd 20700. Joshua responsed that he could not match this price and that I should purchase through the other vendor. The stone was no longer available from the othere vendor at this point. Be aware, ED still has my money.

I continued to look at ED inventory and the above stone appears again in their inventory at usd 13700. I then chat online with Joshua who confirms the price.

I then let Joshua know that it is indeed me he is chatting with and that I don't understand how this is possible. He says that he will get back to me. Two reminder emails later he responds that the diamond is no longer available and that he will look for other options. I have not heard back from him in a week and my money has been with him a month now.

You are not the first to have problems with this vendor.

Get your money back and find a vendor that has a stellar reputation.

Here are four vendors that have more diamond knowledge and will provide you with a better service: High Performance Diamonds, WhiteFlash, Good Old Gold, Brian Gavin Diamonds.