What Did You Think of Bibi's Speech?

[AGBF]

New, albeit a related, topic. What did you think of Netanyahu's speech? I tuned in very late on the computer, but what I heard sounded powerful, very powerful. And I heard and saw the standing ovation Mr. Netanyahu was given. It went on and on. Given the power of the media, I would think that the speech is going to have an effect. I'm not sure on whom, but certainly on public opinion. In the short run. Which may be meaningless to public policy in the long run.

AGBF

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I did not watch it but I am very pleased to hear that. We need to stand by our greatest ally in the middle east.

 

[movie zombie]

he seems to blame Iran for all the unrest in the area rather than as blowback for US actions over several decades.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Have not watch his speech yet. Should I watch the speech on a liberal channel? ...

 

[Karl_K]

I thought it was a good speech with a lot of good points.
I believe he is right that Iran can not be trusted and will use nukes if they get them.

Btw, I find calling it Bibi's speech disrespectful but don't blame Deb for copying the press.

 

[VapidLapid]

I can''t help but think that this thread should be moved to ATW.
I don't think anything he said was new, or news to anyone.
I think he was used as a pawn by the gop, and like a pawn, will find himself sacrificed.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

He is no pawn of anyone, in my opinion. He is the leader of his country and asking for a wake up call from his biggest ally.

I watched the full speech tonight and thought it was great. I thought the multiple ovations were very encouraging. I saw applause from both parties. I can't see why anyone other than his enemies would dislike that speech.

 

[missy]

He is no pawn of anyone, in my opinion. He is the leader of his country and asking for a wake up call from his biggest ally.

I watched the full speech tonight and thought it was great. I thought the multiple ovations were very encouraging. I saw applause from both parties. I can't see why anyone other than his enemies would dislike that speech.

I agree.

 

[AGBF]

I can''t help but think that this thread should be moved to ATW.
I don't think anything he said was new, or news to anyone.
I think he was used as a pawn by the gop, and like a pawn, will find himself sacrificed.

I am guilty of having started a political thread in Hangout in the past because I thought some topic wasn't too political and I thought it would be discussed more there. In the case of this thread, however, I started it in Hangout accidentally. I thought I was starting it in Around The World and was surprised to see it listed in Hangout after I started it! On the other hand, as a Freudian, I believe there are no accidents. Consciously I may have thought I was in "Around The World", but unconsciously perhaps I wanted to post in Hangout.

My superego is pretty strong. I try to do the right thing. But I have a sneaky ego.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I thought it was a good speech with a lot of good points.
I believe he is right that Iran can not be trusted and will use nukes if they get them.

Btw, I find calling it Bibi's speech disrespectful but don't blame Deb for copying the press.

I wasn't copying the "the press" with the "Bibi" appellation. The press I read is "The New York Times". I referred to him as "Mr. Netanyahu" throughout my posting. That is my usual custom and I am pleased to say that "The New York Times", after identifying an individual by his full name once, always refers to him as "Mr. so-and-so" afterwards in an article whether he is President of the United States, a tyrant, or a petty thief. I called him "Bibi" because that is how he is known in Israel and it just took my fancy at the moment. I dislike Mr. Netanyahu's domestic Israeli politics very much, which is not to say that I hated his speech. Please remember that I have family (my husband's) in Israel and that they refer to him as Bibi.

Deb

 

[VapidLapid]

Really no need to explain, Deb. I actually thought it likely that you thought you were posting in ATW. I prefaced my post with that because I could see this thread potentially heating up and I did not want to leave it unacknowledged. I was surprised to see the thread moved in less than a minute of my posting. It could well be that Ella was already on it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

He is no pawn of anyone, in my opinion. He is the leader of his country and asking for a wake up call from his biggest ally.

I watched the full speech tonight and thought it was great. I thought the multiple ovations were very encouraging. I saw applause from both parties. I can't see why anyone other than his enemies would dislike that speech.

This is President Obama's reaction... Israel will not receive a helping hand from the US until President Obama is out of office.

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="Dancing Fire|1425533358|3842116This is President Obama's reaction... Israel will not receive a helping hand from the US until President Obama is out of office.[/quote]



really?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

not sure when Congress will act again to increase $ going there but at the end of the day, dear DF, it is Congress that controls the purse strings and not the president.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="movie zombie|
really?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

not sure when Congress will act again to increase $ going there but at the end of the day, dear DF, it is Congress that controls the purse strings and not the president.[/quote]



MZ
I am not talking about the money part. My Q is ...why President Obama does not see Iran as a threat to world peace?...

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="movie zombie|
really?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

not sure when Congress will act again to increase $ going there but at the end of the day, dear DF, it is Congress that controls the purse strings and not the president.

MZ
I am not talking about the money part. My Q is ...why President Obama does not see Iran as a threat to world peace?... [/quote]


not sure why you think he doesn't, DF.
you'd rather do it Bibi's way and have another war going on in the region?
a monitored agreement isn't good enough?
and for the record: Israel refuses to sign and refuses to be monitored.

eta: http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...m_medium=email&utm_source=editorialnewsletter

 

[VapidLapid]

Because DF, Iran is just as much a threat to world peach as most of our allies are. Their versions of Fox News cant shut up about radicalized extremist christian terrorists, and consider us, the US to be the biggest threat to world peace. We send all our pregnant peace corp forces to give birth in unstable countries so that we can, through them, take over!!! We trick the Chinese into buying ALL our debt so that they are so heavily invested in US that we are to big to fail. Really, how can they foreclose, they'd need like a billion troops. And they fell for that birth your baby on US soil trick. when they foreclose they foreclose on their own grandchildren!
but I digress.

I dont think there is really any one in the middle east who wants peace; hating each other is a tradition, a life's purpose.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="movie zombie|

not sure why you think he doesn't, DF.
you'd rather do it Bibi's way and have another war going on in the region?
a monitored agreement isn't good enough?
and for the record: Israel refuses to sign and refuses to be monitored.

eta: http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...m_medium=email&utm_source=editorialnewsletter[/quote]



MZ
War have had been going on in the region for years now. Lets hope it does not turn into WW III

a monitored agreement isn't good enough?
Can the world trust Iran?

 

[AGBF]

And they fell for that birth your baby on US soil trick. when they foreclose they foreclose on their own grandchildren!
but I digress.

Darn! Just when you were getting to the good stuff you stop spilling the state secrets!

Deb

 

[missy]

I thought it was a good speech with a lot of good points.
I believe he is right that Iran can not be trusted and will use nukes if they get them.

Btw, I find calling it Bibi's speech disrespectful but don't blame Deb for copying the press.

I wasn't copying the "the press" with the "Bibi" appellation. The press I read is "The New York Times". I referred to him as "Mr. Netanyahu" throughout my posting. That is my usual custom and I am pleased to say that "The New York Times", after identifying an individual by his full name once, always refers to him as "Mr. so-and-so" afterwards in an article whether he is President of the United States, a tyrant, or a petty thief. I called him "Bibi" because that is how he is known in Israel and it just took my fancy at the moment. I dislike Mr. Netanyahu's domestic Israeli politics very much, which is not to say that I hated his speech. Please remember that I have family (my husband's) in Israel and that they refer to him as Bibi.

Deb

I agree with Deb. I do not think using the term "Bibi" is disrespectful. I guess it depends on how one is using it though. If used with respect it is fine and respectful. If used with sarcasm (not how Deb was using it) it is not OK and yes disrespectful. Just like any term of endearment can be. Either or depending on how one use's it IMO.

I can''t help but think that this thread should be moved to ATW.
I don't think anything he said was new, or news to anyone.
I think he was used as a pawn by the gop, and like a pawn, will find himself sacrificed.

I am guilty of having started a political thread in Hangout in the past because I thought some topic wasn't too political and I thought it would be discussed more there. In the case of this thread, however, I started it in Hangout accidentally. I thought I was starting it in Around The World and was surprised to see it listed in Hangout after I started it! On the other hand, as a Freudian, I believe there are no accidents. Consciously I may have thought I was in "Around The World", but unconsciously perhaps I wanted to post in Hangout.

My superego is pretty strong. I try to do the right thing. But I have a sneaky ego.

Deb

Hahaha, and this is one of the many reasons I LOVE you Deb. (((Hugs))) and thank you for making me smile.

 

[Maisie]

I saw this quote from Mr Netanyahu. It makes sense to me.

 

[AGBF]

I saw this quote from Mr Netanyahu. It makes sense to me.

I have a caveat: if the Arabs put down their arms today, would there ever be a Palestine?

Deb/AGBF

 

[Maisie]

I saw this quote from Mr Netanyahu. It makes sense to me.

I have a caveat: if the Arabs put down their arms today, would there ever be a Palestine?

Deb/AGBF

I suppose that would depend on your views regarding whether there should be a Palestine.

 

[missy]

I saw this quote from Mr Netanyahu. It makes sense to me.

I have a caveat: if the Arabs put down their arms today, would there ever be a Palestine?

Deb/AGBF

I suppose that would depend on your views regarding whether there should be a Palestine.

Maisie, I agree with you that he is right about that fact.

Deb, I have a question that goes one step further. If the Jews put down their arms today do you think they would survive?
And to answer your question I believe "Israel would live in peace with their neighbors if they had neighbors who wanted to live in peace with them." Which IMO they have clearly shown they do not. Not only do they not want to be neighbors and live in peace but they want to annihilate all the jewish people.

Here's an interesting article fyi. Please read it when you have time. I am only copying a small part here because it is so long. But here is the full link.
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel

snip...
What would the Palestinians do to the Jews in Israel if the power imbalance were reversed? Well, they have told us what they would do. For some reason, Israel’s critics just don’t want to believe the worst about a group like Hamas, even when it declares the worst of itself. We’ve already had a Holocaust and several other genocides in the 20th century. People are capable of committing genocide. When they tell us they intend to commit genocide, we should listen. There is every reason to believe that the Palestinians would kill all the Jews in Israel if they could. Would every Palestinian support genocide? Of course not. But vast numbers of them—and of Muslims throughout the world—would.
history of targeting innocent noncombatants in the most shocking ways possible. They’ve blown themselves up on buses and in restaurants. They’ve massacred teenagers. They’ve murdered Olympic athletes. They now shoot rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas. And again, the charter of their government in Gaza explicitly tells us that they want to annihilate the Jews—not just in Israel but everywhere. [Note: Again, I realize that not all Palestinians support Hamas. Nor am I discounting the degree to which the occupation, along with collateral damage suffered in war, has fueled Palestinian rage. But Palestinian terrorism (and Muslim anti-Semitism) is what has made peaceful coexistence thus far impossible.]


The truth is that there is an obvious, undeniable, and hugely consequential moral difference between Israel and her enemies. The Israelis are surrounded by people who have explicitly genocidal intentions towards them. The charter of Hamas is explicitly genocidal. It looks forward to a time, based on Koranic prophesy, when the earth itself will cry out for Jewish blood, where the trees and the stones will say “O Muslim, there’s a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.” This is a political document. We are talking about a government that was voted into power by a majority of Palestinians. [Note: Yes, I know that not every Palestinian supports Hamas, but enough do to have brought them to power. Hamas is not a fringe group.]

The discourse in the Muslim world about Jews is utterly shocking. Not only is there Holocaust denial—there’s Holocaust denial that then asserts that we will do it for real if given the chance. The only thing more obnoxious than denying the Holocaust is to say that it should have happened; it didn’t happen, but if we get the chance, we will accomplish it. There are children’s shows in the Palestinian territories and elsewhere that teach five-year-olds about the glories of martyrdom and about the necessity of killing Jews.

snip....

What do groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda and even Hamas want? They want to impose their religious views on the rest of humanity. They want to stifle every freedom that decent, educated, secular people care about. This is not a trivial difference. And yet judging from the level of condemnation that Israel now receives, you would think the difference ran the other way.
This kind of confusion puts all of us in danger. This is the great story of our time. For the rest of our lives, and the lives of our children, we are going to be confronted by people who don’t want to live peacefully in a secular, pluralistic world, because they are desperate to get to Paradise, and they are willing to destroy the very possibility of human happiness along the way. The truth is, we are all living in Israel. It’s just that some of us haven’t realized it yet.

 

[AGBF]

I saw this quote from Mr Netanyahu. It makes sense to me.

I have a caveat: if the Arabs put down their arms today, would there ever be a Palestine?

Deb/AGBF

I suppose that would depend on your views regarding whether there should be a Palestine.

Deb, I have a question that goes one step further. If the Jews put down their arms today do you think they would survive?

To Maisie: The question of whether there would ever be a Palestine if the Arabs were to lay down their arms is NOT predicated upon the question of whether one believes there should be a Palestine. It is a straightforward question open to those who believe there should be a "two state solution" with an Arab state called Palestine and those who do not believe there should be "a two state solution" with an Arab state called Palestine.

To missy: Discussing whether the Jews should put down their arms is NOT "one step further" than asking what would happen if the Arabs lay down their arms. It is an entirely different question. Maisie asked it already. Of course they would not.

AGBF

 

[missy]

One step further meaning that if the Jews put down their arms there would be no Jewish survivors vs if the Palestinians put down their arms. Yes entirely different because the whole thought process of each group is entirely different. One wants to live and let live in religious freedom while the other only wants their religion and thoughts etc to reign supreme.

 

[movie zombie]

i'd be more interested in keeping Israeli "settlers" from taking over already existing Arab homes/farms than having anyone put down their weapons.

 

[AGBF]

i'd be more interested in keeping Israeli "settlers" from taking over already existing Arab homes/farms than having anyone put down their weapons.

And his longstanding position that Israel has a right to hold onto land it acquired in wars and then settled is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of Mr. Netanyahu. Yitzhak Rabin, whom I never expected to respect, became my hero when he was willing to make concessions for peace. My husband and I had stopped watching television when our daughter was born, but we owned a TV and I broke our ban on TV and watched Mr.Rabin's funeral when he was assassinated by another Jew.

Link...http://www.biography.com/people/yitzhak-rabin-37246

AGBF

 

[Maisie]

Who started the war that resulted in Israel gaining extra lands? Not Israel.

 

[movie zombie]

i'd blame the Brits and the West for making "states" out of areas that were not "states" prior to WWI w/o regard for tribal areas because it was convenient to rule as a westerner and i'd blame failure to keep promises to create an Arab state that were made during WWI.

the problem with Israel is that it keeps expanding.........something we certainly want to go to war with Russia for doing.

history: study it or repeat it.

additionally, two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[missy]

All one has to do is read the Hamas Charter and also just open their eyes to what is continuing all around for one to realize the main intent that drives Hamas and other terrorist organizations is to kill and their goal (as written and said by them countless times) is complete annihilation of their enemies.

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html?chocaid=397

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/20/hamas-charter-israeli-civilians-dying-ahmed-yousef

"Hamas is a representative of a jihadi ideology that is the main obstacle to peace in our region, its rule of Gaza an ongoing tragedy for both Palestinians and Israelis. Imagining away its extremist, violent ethos will not advance the cause of peace. Hamas must be condemned and marginalised by the international community, just like Isis and al-Qaida, so that it doesn’t quash the hopes of the majority of Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace."


MZ, no two wrongs don't make a right but truly if Israelis were to put down their weapons there would be no more Israel. I believe the majority of Israelis and the Israeli government want peace but how does one achieve peace when the other side with their mainstream extremist views is irrational and wants blood and will settle for no less.

Deb, every side has extremists but I would bet that the extremists on the other side outnumber the Israeli extremists by perhaps the millions.

IMO, if Hamas got its way it would mean the complete genocide of the Jewish people.