Is Capetown a good place to live?

[fiona00004]

I know this is sort of a vague question, but here goes...

I have 2 young children (2.5 and 4.5yrs old) and my hubby and I have always wanted to experience living abroad. We are SICK of the weather here in snowy, wintery Montreal Canada and we are looking for a good place to take a break from all of that. We want a warm place, safe for young children with good schools available, and good work/balance lifestyle and good job opportunities for both of us. DH works in computers and I in health care.

Somehow, DH came up with Capetown. I have my reservations about it but maybe it is mostly because I know very little about Capetown. DH came up with it because he said it is someplace exotic, warm and that speaks English. Australia wasn't exotic enough for him I guess...but somehow, I feel more comfortable with Australia...

I would like to know people's experiences with Capetown. What you like, and don't like about it? Would you live there long term, why and why not?

Thanks!!!

 

[missy]

FiZ, I don'k know much about Cape Town however I would make sure to research thoroughly how safe it is to live there. Here is a link to get you started. Good luck!

http://www.expatcapetown.com/crime-in-south-africa.html

 

[April20]

You need to talk to Trekkie. She lives in SA, not in CT, but she would be your best resource.

We lived in SA for six months, though in Jo'burg. We spent about a week in CT and have friends there and it's lovely. Quite frankly, it's the most beautiful place we've ever been. It definitely felt safer than Jo'burg. It felt very European to us. Our friends that live there said it's often called the most southern point of Europe.

We also have a friend from here (USA) that does work over there, has spent extended time there and is trying to move more permanently. She's single and thus far to my knowledge has not felt unsafe. But still, you need Trekkie. You'd get a much better idea of the true safety, cost of living, etc.

 

[arkieb1]

I'm an Aussie and I think it depends on where you live as to how exotic it is..... My cousin married a native South African girl and they couldn't get back here fast enough.

 

[Trekkie]

I LOVE Cape Town!

The most important thing to realise about Cape Town is that Cape Town is not Africa. Cape Town is a little piece of the Mediterranean that broke off, got lost and somehow attached itself to the tip of Africa.

Cape Town is the most politically and economically stable city in South Africa (not that that's saying much, buuuut... ). It is in the only province not governed by the ANC, so to a large extent, things still work. They won't work as well as you're used to in Canada, but perhaps the exotic location will make up for that!

Housing

What sort of lifestyle to do you enjoy? Are you mountains people? Beach people? City people? Cape Town offers all three.

I personally LOVE life in the Northern Suburbs - it's quite Afrikaans (but everyone in SA speaks British English, so you won't even need to change your spelling), so you'll deal with super polite people who are always trying to do things for you. For instance, if you get lost, rather than give you directions, you'll be told, "follow me!" and they'll take you where you need to go. The Northern Suburbs are very clean. There are very, very few vagrants and the area is all about the wide open spaces and going into the mountains or the bush over weekends. Oh, and the braai (similar to your barbecue). People often say the Northern Suburbs are filled with Afrikaner racists but that has never been my experience (and I'm a coloured woman married to an Afrikaans man, so if anyone would experience it, it would be me). Durbanville is my favourite suburb out north and it is 10 minutes away from the Bellville CBD. It is also the start of some pretty spectacular wine routes, so as you drive to work in the morning, you'll drive past vineyards - how awesome is that?!

Southern Suburbs can be quite cliquey. It's very much about which private school you attended and whether your husband played first team cricket or rugby and which doctor will be doing your boob job. The suburbs themselves are green and leafy and there are some good schools but you kinda need to have grown up there to really fit in. Even though I went to the "right" schools and traveled to the "right" countries etc, it has never really been my kind of place - it's quite insular. Traffic into town (the city center itself is called Cape Town as well, which can be confusing) is a nightmare and I'm always astounded at how dirty the place is and how many vagrants there are.

A good combination of these areas is found somewhere near the middle Royal Ascot is great. It is a collection of small, private estates constantly patrolled by private armed response companies. The constant rentacop can be a bit nerve-wracking at first, but eventually you don't notice it, except when they aren't around. Royal Ascot is about 5 minutes away from Canal Walk, one of the largest shopping centres in Cape Town and about 15 minutes away from The V&A Waterfront, where you will find anything from local brands to Louis Vuitton and Gucci. It's about 15 minutes away from the CBD in no traffic but about 30-45 in heavy traffic. I lived here for a while and absolutely loved it. The area has AMAZING views of Table Mountain and has a safe, suburban feel without really being stifling.

Century City is a new development in Cape Town. It is home to several tech companies, excellent private schools and Canal Walk shopping centre. The houses are all in security complexes or estates, so it feels very safe. If you were moving here, I'd probably suggest renting a place in this area for six months or so, until you get a feel for Cape Town.

Another area that you might enjoy is Blouberg. This area has THE BEST views of Table Mountain. It is a bit further away from great shopping centres (15 minutes to Canal Walk/30 minutes to The Waterfront) and about 30 minutes to the CBD with no traffic (but about 45-60 minutes with heavy morning traffic). The traffic is the WORST part of this area, but you are right at the beach. Even if you don't want to get wet, you can watch the kite surfers and the ships go by. I often used to park here and just watch the waves. It was so soothing, even better than meditation.

House prices vary greatly. You can live on the Atlantic Seaboard and pay US$4mil for a 3 bedroom place with no parking but a seaview and easy access to the CBD or you could live out north and buy a McMansion for US$350k. Southern Suburbs are a bit more expensive, so your McMansion would cost around US$50-100k more. Housing styles are different to what you are used to. You'll find that many new homes/developments are in the Tuscan style. Granite counter tops are everywhere; we don't really do wood floors, but we love tiles. In townhouse complexes/private estates your yard is usually quite small (around 500m2/5300sqft) but family homes are usually situated on at least 1000m2 or 1/4acre and it's not unusual to find a family home on half an acre. South Africans tend to be outdoor types, so many homes have swimming pools. It's considered perfectly normal for an entire street's kids to converge on one kid's house and (ab)use the pool, and then go to another kid's house the next day, and another kid's house... and so on.

Have a look at properties in Claremont (southern suburbs), Durbanville (northern suburbs), Century City, Royal Ascot and Blouberg (but avoid Parklands - it's quite far out and has loads of cheaper flats/apartments, so not really a desirable area) on www.property24.com to give you an idea of what is available. Homes out here are not really staged for sale the way they are out in North America but it will give you an idea of what these areas offer.

There are LOADS of other suburbs, so let me know what you enjoy/are into or if you have questions about any suburbs you've encountered ask away and I'll answer.

Oh, and property tax is not nearly as ridiculous as it is out in Canada and the US.

Education

Schooling. Sigh. Contentious issue in South Africa. State schools require a passing grade of 30%. No, that's not a typo, 30%. Even though there are some good state schools in the areas mentioned above, I'd strongly advise you to consider private school. Private schools over here start at around US$3000 a year (of course some are more expensive) and range from "for profit" private schools like Curro (http://www.curro.co.za/) and Reddam (http://www.reddamhouse.org.za/ - FYI, Charles Spencer (Lady Diana's brother) and his ex-wife live in Cape Town and they sent their children to Reddam) to the la dee dah schools like Bishops and St Cyprians etc.

Food

Fooooooooooooooood! OMG, if there's something South Africans enjoy, it's food. You will find a wide range of cuisines, anything you would find in any first world city. Restaurants are so cheap out here too. You can have a first class meal for two at a top class restaurant, including dessert excellent local wine, for US$60. Family dinner for four at a steak place? US$30. We have McDonald's and KFC and all that, but you'll find it easy to prepare food at home because fresh ingredients are so cheap! We have organic of course, but even non-organic produce tastes the way food should - fresh and unprocessed. Meat is super cheap. My friends in Europe often complain about only being able to eat meat 3 times a week. Here we eat it every day, sometimes three times a day. Steak for breakfast is perfectly normal. Annnnd, the steak is GOOOOOOD. You will spend your weekends driving out to nature reserves to have a braai (what you call a barbecue) with your friends, and you will be told that chicken is a vegetable.

Transport

Public transport does exist but you wouldn't want to use it, lol. Cars and fuel are more expensive here, but you don't have hours long commutes. On the other hand, you'll want to travel and explore and do exciting things like driving out to the mountains for the weekend or maybe driving up to the Kruger National Park or a national park in one of our neighbouring countries, so that could end up being quite pricey, depending on how much driving you want to do.

Salaries

You will not earn nearly the same as you would out in Canada but you'll find that with property and food being so much cheaper, your money will go further. Oh, and a 40 hour work week is normal, as is going out for lunch during the day. At most you might work 50-60 hours when busy with a big project, but once that's been concluded, you'll go back to 40 hours.

Shopping

We have just about everything you would find in the US, but if you want US brands, you'll pay more. Amazon doesn't ship here, so you'll need to have someone at home send you things via post. Whether it actually gets here is hit or miss.

Healthcare

Being Canadian, you will be appalled at having to pay for healthcare BUT! It is so cheap! You or your DH will get coverage through work at something stupid like US$200 a month for your entire family of four, and this will probably be included in your salary package, so won't come out of pocket. We don't do those deductible things I'm always reading about in the US. Medication and doctor's visits are covered, but sometimes you might have to pay a levy (rarely more than US$5). Our state hospitals are not very good, but our private hospitals are world class, and MUCH cheaper than in the US.

Crime

Crime. Sigh. I don't want to lie to you. There is definitely crime in South Africa. Africa is violent. It is not for sissies. Violence here is often senseless and it will make you weep. The good news is, Cape Town is economically stable, so you'll be somewhat sheltered from the worst of it. I remember when I lived in the UK, little old ladies were afraid of kids in tracksuits/hoodies. You won't find that here. Cape Town does have gang violence but it is centred in the coloured areas.

I can tell you that I lived in Cape Town for more than five years and never had anything happen to me. On the other hand, my DH was raised in CT and went to school there but was robbed twice on the train. Theft is common and has happened to me several times, but I've never been a victim of violent crime. When you get here and see the poverty some people live under, you will understand the stealing thing. It doesn't make it ok, but you'll understand why it happens.

Weather/Things to do/Outdoor Lifestyle

South Africans seriously live outdoors more than indoors. Kids still play outside (under supervision of course) and ride their bicycles everywhere, particularly if you live inside a complex or estate.

The weather is great! It never gets as hot as is does where I live, and it doesn't really get cold either. People say Cape Town winters are harsh. You will laugh at this. Yes, it does rain a bit but no one ever gets snowed in. Winters are seriously mild and even though they technically last for 3 months, it's only really rainy for 4-6 weeks, and even then it's not non-stop rain. You'll have mild-warmish sunshiny days in between.

Things to do! OMG, Cape Town has so much! Museums, Art Galleries, shopping, trips into the bush, trips to the sea,trips to the mountains, penguins, TABLE MOUNTAIN... And if you get tired of it, you just drive over the mountains and explore what's on the other side.

Help at Home

This is probably the reason why most South Africans come back after having left - help at home. Most South Africans have help at home, whether it is just a weekly cleaning lady or full time live in maid and gardener. You'll probably want something in between, perhaps a domestic worker from 08h00 - 17h00? She will clean your house, look after your kids when they get home from school/nursery school and perhaps start preparing your evening meal for you, so that when you get home, all you have to do is throw it together. Over here it is unusual for middle class working moms to send their kids to daycare. It is considered preferable to have a nanny/domestic worker. The minimum wage for domestic workers is a pittance, I think around US$180-200 per month, but if you want someone good, with first aid and a drivers licence, you'll pay around US$350 per month.

Phew... I've said too much! I hope I haven't overwhelmed you!

As a Canadian, you will enjoy it for 3-5 years, but after that the novelty wears off. You will become tired of the poverty, the crime, the political drama, the lack of service delivery (even though it's still quite good in Cape Town) and you will want to go home. If it's a short term thing, you will love it.

Do let me know if you have any questions - I will answer as fairly and honestly as I can.

 

[Trekkie]

FiZ, I don'k know much about Cape Town however I would make sure to research thoroughly how safe it is to live there. Here is a link to get you started. Good luck!

http://www.expatcapetown.com/crime-in-south-africa.html

Missy, if it weren't for the crime, CT would be the perfect place to live. Having said that, I can honestly say that Cape Town is much safer than other parts of South Africa, and if you live in a security estate and are generally a vigilant person, you should be ok. Nothing bad has ever happened to me in Cape Town. Actually, nothing bad has ever happened to me in Johannesburg either, and I don't think it's just because I'm lucky.

You need to talk to Trekkie. She lives in SA, not in CT, but she would be your best resource.

We lived in SA for six months, though in Jo'burg. We spent about a week in CT and have friends there and it's lovely. Quite frankly, it's the most beautiful place we've ever been. It definitely felt safer than Jo'burg. It felt very European to us. Our friends that live there said it's often called the most southern point of Europe.

We also have a friend from here (USA) that does work over there, has spent extended time there and is trying to move more permanently. She's single and thus far to my knowledge has not felt unsafe. But still, you need Trekkie. You'd get a much better idea of the true safety, cost of living, etc.

Haha, yes! CT is awesome! When are you coming back to SA?!

I'm an Aussie and I think it depends on where you live as to how exotic it is..... My cousin married a native South African girl and they couldn't get back here fast enough.

Hey Arkie

Honestly, if I could live anywhere in the world, I would live either in Australia or Cape Town Australia would win by a mile, but Cape Town isn't too shabby either.

 

[Trekkie]

A few gratuitous shots of Cape Town...

 

[April20]

You need to talk to Trekkie. She lives in SA, not in CT, but she would be your best resource.

We lived in SA for six months, though in Jo'burg. We spent about a week in CT and have friends there and it's lovely. Quite frankly, it's the most beautiful place we've ever been. It definitely felt safer than Jo'burg. It felt very European to us. Our friends that live there said it's often called the most southern point of Europe.

We also have a friend from here (USA) that does work over there, has spent extended time there and is trying to move more permanently. She's single and thus far to my knowledge has not felt unsafe. But still, you need Trekkie. You'd get a much better idea of the true safety, cost of living, etc.

Haha, yes! CT is awesome! When are you coming back to SA?!

We would LOOOOVE to come back. Especially to CT. We just loved it and my absolute favorite Malbec (La Capra from Fairview) is impossible to get here. I can get the Cab at a local restaurant, but it's not the Malbec!! If we can swing a trip back, I would hop on that in an instant! We're expecting a baby in Aug, so big travel is on hold at present. Would I be insane to consider flying to SA with a less than 2 year old? (Because it's too expensive to bring a child when I have to pay for their seat and I wouldn't want to leave for an extended time without him/her).

 

[maccers]

Thanks for that post, Trekkie!

While we are not considering moving to SA, we are considering visiting. Your post was super informative and succinct! CT sounds amazing...

 

[zoebartlett]

Fi Z, I've never been to Capetown/SA so I'm sorry I can't help you, but I wanted to pop in to thank Trekkie for describing Capetown in such great detail.

Trekkie, I always love reading your posts about living in your area of the world. I'm in the US and I don't know that I'll be able to travel all the way to SA one day. Reading what you've written here and in other threads always leaves me wishing I could go there someday. I love reading about where others are from and what life is like in their part of the world, so thank you!

Fi Z, I hope you and your family love wherever you decide to move. It sounds like it could be an amazing opportunity! What a great adventure!

 

[Gypsy]

Tekkie, that was amazing.

Now I want to move there!

I've been trying to get DH to agree to move to Australia for years. No go (for ridiculous reasons too).

I doubt I'd get him to agree to Capetown, but other than the crime it sounds heavenly. And I suspect that even with the crime... as long as you are really careful, it might be heavenly for a few years.

 

[GliderPoss]

Hmmm it looks beautiful but I can think of safer places to live..like Australia

*Whispers * Come live with ussssss

 

[Trekkie]

I think I went on an information overload there! Glad some of you enjoyed it!

Hotpozzum and Gypsy - Australia is definitely one of my all time favourite places in the world. My DH did his post doc there, so it will always be special to him because of that. Unfortunately our chances of getting in are practically impossible, or else we'd already be there!

You need to talk to Trekkie. She lives in SA, not in CT, but she would be your best resource.

We lived in SA for six months, though in Jo'burg. We spent about a week in CT and have friends there and it's lovely. Quite frankly, it's the most beautiful place we've ever been. It definitely felt safer than Jo'burg. It felt very European to us. Our friends that live there said it's often called the most southern point of Europe.

We also have a friend from here (USA) that does work over there, has spent extended time there and is trying to move more permanently. She's single and thus far to my knowledge has not felt unsafe. But still, you need Trekkie. You'd get a much better idea of the true safety, cost of living, etc.

Haha, yes! CT is awesome! When are you coming back to SA?!

We would LOOOOVE to come back. Especially to CT. We just loved it and my absolute favorite Malbec (La Capra from Fairview) is impossible to get here. I can get the Cab at a local restaurant, but it's not the Malbec!! If we can swing a trip back, I would hop on that in an instant! We're expecting a baby in Aug, so big travel is on hold at present. Would I be insane to consider flying to SA with a less than 2 year old? (Because it's too expensive to bring a child when I have to pay for their seat and I wouldn't want to leave for an extended time without him/her).

I don't think it's insane to fly to SA with a baby at all! Loads of people do it. Just think how awesome it would be showing your baby those Nemo fish at the aquarium at the waterfront! Or the penguins at Boulders or or or or... Yup! You need to come back "home"!

 

[missy]

Trekkie, thanks for all that info. Cape Town sounds lovely though the crime would deter me from living there. I am more of a sissy (missy the sissy hehe) than you lol. If it weren't for that it would be a dream place to live for me. I also LOVE Australia (Hi HotPozzum ) and have talked about moving there with my dh. Right now while my family is here that wouldn't be an option but sometime in the future definitely a possibility. The weather is so awesome and I know the people are amazing there too. LOVE the pictures you shared, thank you!

Fi Z, lots of good info in your thread thanks to Trekkie and the other lovely PSers. Hope you and dh are enjoying deciding where to move. Very exciting time for you guys.

 

[fiona00004]

Omigoodness!! I adore you all!

Thanks for everyone's support and positive words!

Trekkie, I am SO thankful that you helped me out by giving me such an amazing description of your experience in CT. I really appreciate it and it is going to be really helpful! I will share this with DH asap! It's interesting because for some reason we both thought that there was a slightly more laid back lifestyle so it sounds slightly similar to here in terms of working hours...but then again, it also depends on what we do as work!

I am so excited about everything.... it isn't going to be easy picking a new place to live! but I will probably keep posting questions and stuff as I go along! I knew that PS ers on would be helpful!!

 

[April20]

I think I went on an information overload there! Glad some of you enjoyed it!

Hotpozzum and Gypsy - Australia is definitely one of my all time favourite places in the world. My DH did his post doc there, so it will always be special to him because of that. Unfortunately our chances of getting in are practically impossible, or else we'd already be there!

You need to talk to Trekkie. She lives in SA, not in CT, but she would be your best resource.

We lived in SA for six months, though in Jo'burg. We spent about a week in CT and have friends there and it's lovely. Quite frankly, it's the most beautiful place we've ever been. It definitely felt safer than Jo'burg. It felt very European to us. Our friends that live there said it's often called the most southern point of Europe.

We also have a friend from here (USA) that does work over there, has spent extended time there and is trying to move more permanently. She's single and thus far to my knowledge has not felt unsafe. But still, you need Trekkie. You'd get a much better idea of the true safety, cost of living, etc.

Haha, yes! CT is awesome! When are you coming back to SA?!

We would LOOOOVE to come back. Especially to CT. We just loved it and my absolute favorite Malbec (La Capra from Fairview) is impossible to get here. I can get the Cab at a local restaurant, but it's not the Malbec!! If we can swing a trip back, I would hop on that in an instant! We're expecting a baby in Aug, so big travel is on hold at present. Would I be insane to consider flying to SA with a less than 2 year old? (Because it's too expensive to bring a child when I have to pay for their seat and I wouldn't want to leave for an extended time without him/her).

I don't think it's insane to fly to SA with a baby at all! Loads of people do it. Just think how awesome it would be showing your baby those Nemo fish at the aquarium at the waterfront! Or the penguins at Boulders or or or or... Yup! You need to come back "home"!

A friend of ours got bit on the toe by a penguin when he was there! He was walking back up the stairs after being down on the viewing deck at the water. Needless to say, we were quite careful when we took the stairs! It was so cool though! I love penguins.

I also saw baby ostrich for the first, and thus far, only time when we were at the Cape of Good Hope. They were so darn cute. And we saw them while we were stopped in a line of traffic because some chimpanzees were climbing all over a car that had stopped to look at something. That's just not something you see in the states!

 

[arkieb1]

Another suggested place worth considering might be New Zealand - all the scenery etc without the crime. I only thought about it because a lady I know from the US's son in law has been in Australia working and just went to NZ and he is totally loving the place.

 

[GliderPoss]

Another suggested place worth considering might be New Zealand - all the scenery etc without the crime. I only thought about it because a lady I know from the US's son in law has been in Australia working and just went to NZ and he is totally loving the place.

NZ is absolutely gorgeous and very safe too! Would definitely recommend our friends across the ditch.

 

[LaBellaVita]

How do people make this move abroad?

I thought it was next to impossible (without job sponsorship or TONS of money) to immigrate/work in a new country.
This has always been a dream of mine (hubby would never get on board) - but thought it was an impossible dream due to "work" issues.