"Hearts on Fire"? Help me pick something just as nice!

[jonsey]

I must not have 20/20 vision anymore cause I can't read the small print...however, I did notice the AGS 000 rating and the computerized ASET. Without knowing the actual values of the CA/PA and other values, why do you say it has light leakage? Do you have other images that show the leakage?

Also, a little leakage is not necessarily a bad thing. Mine has some and it's still a very nice stone diamond. Makes for a slightly contrasty look which really appeals to me.

Hi,

It was just the darker green under the table, thought that was a bad thing. Maybe I am over thinking this though!

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, I will say that the computerized ASET does like a little different than mine. Im linking mine below, hope you can open:
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104072442002-PLDQRH.PDF

Many AGS aset images have the arrows all blue, including spears at the end. Again, yours might just have a different flavor and IRL look fantastic, but this is where it's helpful to have a full appraisal from a third party (not selling you a diamond). Is this AGS report the first diamond IS from a previous post?

My diamond has an HCA of 2.1 (got dinged for the PA of 41 combo with CA-hence a little leakage). What is this one's HCA? Again, can't read the tiny numbers.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I must not have 20/20 vision anymore cause I can't read the small print...however, I did notice the AGS 000 rating and the computerized ASET. Without knowing the actual values of the CA/PA and other values, why do you say it has light leakage? Do you have other images that show the leakage?

Also, a little leakage is not necessarily a bad thing. Mine has some and it's still a very nice stone diamond. Makes for a slightly contrasty look which really appeals to me.

Hi,

It was just the darker green under the table, thought that was a bad thing. Maybe I am over thinking this though!

It's not a bad thing unless you are going for super ideal. As Paul said, even AGS0 is a rejection tool in the sense that it enables you to eliminate those diamonds with attributes that you don't want so that you can focus on those that you do. Choosing a diamond is something that involves various tradeoffs. Some folks, especially many here, feel like any tradeoffs in cut quality should come sort of as a last resort. That is, only if you cannot find candidates in your budget that meet the rest of your requirements.

As some have already mentioned, clarity features can also impact light performance so it is smart to pay close attention to that as well. In the final analysis it's always a very personal decision as to what characteristics are most important to you..

 

[pfunk]

Have you seen any "regular" diamonds cut to ideal proportions, or just the Hearts on Fire diamonds? You've given some conflicting statements so I'd like to see exactly what page you're on, and I think it will help others with their recommendations. You said you want something just like the HOF diamond, but then went on to say you're ok with something that isn't branded as long as it is just as brilliant or beautiful. The very best diamonds (HOF, CBI, etc) do not happen by accident. You can't say "I'm fine with a nonbranded diamond but it has to be just as beautiful as the HOF". It just doesn't work that way.

When you were blown away by the beauty of the HOF diamond, had you seen many other diamonds in jewelery stores? Had you seen ideal cut AGS or GIA stones? If you haven't you need to see both if you really want to know whether you are willing to pay a premium for a diamond, or if you will still find a non branded diamond beautiful. If you want to spend less for a diamond that isn't cut to the same standards as the HOF that's fine and is exactly what most people do, but just know it might not be as beautiful to your eyes (if you are very discerning). I would just hate to see you disappointed with it because it is visibly different from HOF.

 

[jonsey]

I know that it was said that the AGS Ideal will result in an amazing looking diamond, but this one shows a lot of light leakage....thoughts on the general worthiness of AGS Ideal?

AGS Ideal is also a rejection-tool. Objectively, this diamond does not fit HOF-parameters in many ways.

Is it AGS-Ideal? Yes.
Is it amazing? Highly depends upon whose definition of amazing.
Is it comparable to HOF? Well, it is a diamond and it has AGS-Ideal, so on that level, one could say it is comparable. But it ends there.

Keeping track of my tally, to date, the number of suggested stones complying to objective HOF-criteria has gone below 20%.

Live long,

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the perspective! Guess I need to increase my budget to get that actual level of HOF performance.

Can someone objectively say what I lose if I go with, say the linked diamond on Enchanted Diamonds (2.10 J/VS2) vs. say a ACA diamond, at a $6000 premium?

 

[Gypsy]

Have you seen any "regular" diamonds cut to ideal proportions, or just the Hearts on Fire diamonds? You've given some conflicting statements so I'd like to see exactly what page you're on, and I think it will help others with their recommendations. You said you want something just like the HOF diamond, but then went on to say you're ok with something that isn't branded as long as it is just as brilliant or beautiful. The very best diamonds (HOF, CBI, etc) do not happen by accident. You can't say "I'm fine with a nonbranded diamond but it has to be just as beautiful as the HOF". It just doesn't work that way.

When you were blown away by the beauty of the HOF diamond, had you seen many other diamonds in jewelery stores? Had you seen ideal cut AGS or GIA stones? If you haven't you need to see both if you really want to know whether you are willing to pay a premium for a diamond, or if you will still find a non branded diamond beautiful. If you want to spend less for a diamond that isn't cut to the same standards as the HOF that's fine and is exactly what most people do, but just know it might not be as beautiful to your eyes (if you are very discerning). I would just hate to see you disappointed with it because it is visibly different from HOF.

This exactly is the problem.
OP, you seem to think that the "branding" is what is commanding the premium on the stones from BGD and Infinity and WF. While they are BRANDED that is not what is commanding the majority of the premium. And neither are the upgrade and buy back policies. As Paul clarified: "Producing a controlled production in such cut-quality has undeniable costs relative to quality standards and rejection levels. I trust this is the premium you are referring to." (Yes, Paul that is what I am referring to).

So ANY stone you get, even a generic hearts and arrows AGS0, that attains the cut perfection of HOF is GOING TO HAVE A PREMIUM. Even if it doesn't have buy back and upgrade policies.

So when you said... I don't want BGD or WF. I ignored you completely. Why? Because your posts show that you don't really know what you want, and that you don't know enough about diamonds and cut to say "I don't want this, I don't want that."

The stones out there that can compete with HOF are few and far between and do not happen by accident. Their production is controlled. And their distribution is not just going to go to any body. It is going to go to the top retailers. And top retailers are going to package them the most advantageously. Usually with a buy back and upgrade policy. Because that is what their competitors who also sell stones of this caliber, are offering.

I posted this for you, did you read it: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

I think it will help you and clarify a few things for you.

I also think you need to tell us what metro area you are near so that we can recommend some good jewelers for you to go visit so that you can see for yourself some more diamonds and see what exactly it is you NEED in a stone.

 

[jonsey]

Have you seen any "regular" diamonds cut to ideal proportions, or just the Hearts on Fire diamonds? You've given some conflicting statements so I'd like to see exactly what page you're on, and I think it will help others with their recommendations. You said you want something just like the HOF diamond, but then went on to say you're ok with something that isn't branded as long as it is just as brilliant or beautiful. The very best diamonds (HOF, CBI, etc) do not happen by accident. You can't say "I'm fine with a nonbranded diamond but it has to be just as beautiful as the HOF". It just doesn't work that way.

When you were blown away by the beauty of the HOF diamond, had you seen many other diamonds in jewelery stores? Had you seen ideal cut AGS or GIA stones? If you haven't you need to see both if you really want to know whether you are willing to pay a premium for a diamond, or if you will still find a non branded diamond beautiful. If you want to spend less for a diamond that isn't cut to the same standards as the HOF that's fine and is exactly what most people do, but just know it might not be as beautiful to your eyes (if you are very discerning). I would just hate to see you disappointed with it because it is visibly different from HOF.

This exactly is the problem.
OP, you seem to think that the "branding" is what is commanding the premium on the stones from BGD and Infinity and WF. While they are BRANDED that is not what is commanding the majority of the premium. And neither are the upgrade and buy back policies. As Paul clarified: "Producing a controlled production in such cut-quality has undeniable costs relative to quality standards and rejection levels. I trust this is the premium you are referring to." (Yes, Paul that is what I am referring to).

So ANY stone you get, even a generic hearts and arrows AGS0, that attains the cut perfection of HOF is GOING TO HAVE A PREMIUM. Even if it doesn't have buy back and upgrade policies.

So when you said... I don't want BGD or WF. I ignored you completely. Why? Because your posts show that you don't really know what you want, and that you don't know enough about diamonds and cut to say "I don't want this, I don't want that."

The stones out there that can compete with HOF are few and far between and do not happen by accident. Their production is controlled. And their distribution is not just going to go to any body. It is going to go to the top retailers. And top retailers are going to package them the most advantageously. Usually with a buy back and upgrade policy. Because that is what their competitors who also sell stones of this caliber, are offering.

I posted this for you, did you read it: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

I think it will help you and clarify a few things for you.

I also think you need to tell us what metro area you are near so that we can recommend some good jewelers for you to go visit so that you can see for yourself some more diamonds and see what exactly it is you NEED in a stone.

Thank you. I missed that one, am reading through it now. And yes, I would be happy with a "near" super ideal. It was just that the diamond I saw knocked my socks off. Yes, the salesperson did take them outside and we viewed them in natural light, on a partially overcast sky.

I am in the Seattle area, thanks!

 

[jonsey]

Yes, that thread makes sense, the one you linked to. That is where I am at. I want that light performance. I don't need to pay for the precision faceting. And I want the availability and affordability that comes with a diamond with exceptional light performance, that may be just a bit off ACA standards. As you noted, there aren't many ACA/Sig Ideal diamonds floating around, pricing is high, they command a 25% premium. I am sure I can get to a nice 8.2-8.4mm white facing up eye clean diamond with fantastic light performance in my price range of $15,000. Just not an ACA perhaps! I called them, no "expert selection" diamonds available soon that would fit the bill. Too bad, that is what I am really looking for.

Does anyone know a vendor that will take orders? Say you want an AGS Ideal, like a WF "expert selection" and they will order it? Find a crystal of the correct color and clarity, cut it to the specs you are looking for? Or does it not work that way? Seems like an ideal way to give the customer what they are looking for, and keep overhead down. I run a retail business, and always give the customer discounts on big ticket special order items. I don't have to pay someone to sell it, and I don't have to pay space to show it on the floor.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Does anyone know a vendor that will take orders? Say you want an AGS Ideal, like a WF "expert selection" and they will order it? Find a crystal of the correct color and clarity, cut it to the specs you are looking for? Or does it not work that way? Seems like an ideal way to give the customer what they are looking for, and keep overhead down. I run a retail business, and always give the customer discounts on big ticket special order items. I don't have to pay someone to sell it, and I don't have to pay space to show it on the floor.

LOL!...now you want a "custom cut" for hamburger price?..

 

[Gypsy]

So here is what I am hearing are your priorities in order of preference.

1. Size equal to or greater than 8.2mm
2. Excellent Light Return
3 and 4: Color and Clarity. (J or better an eyeclean)
4. Precision Hearts and arrows Faceting

Something like these here are what results from that priority list:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R225-BVVC2K?cid=pricescope ask for idealscope
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R220-54VU13?cid=pricescope ask for idealscope
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4226377-2.14-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4226377&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com Ask for lab report and idealscopes
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T?cid=pricescope



You should go to Greenlake Jewelers: http://www.greenlakejewelry.com/default.aspx

Also I would suggest you call Erika Winters (she's Coati on PS): http://www.erikawinters.com/ She will know the jewelry scene out on seattle and might also have some lower colored stones (old cuts, but you can still get an idea for color) for you to look at. Who knows, you may fall in love with old cuts.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Now that we have established we are not looking for a stone "just as nice" as HoF (or better), I wanted to say that Gypsy has posted a stone that looks excellent (not super ideal, but looks like a beautiful diamond) and at a bargain price:

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R225-BVVC2K?cid=pricescope

 

[jonsey]

Does anyone know a vendor that will take orders? Say you want an AGS Ideal, like a WF "expert selection" and they will order it? Find a crystal of the correct color and clarity, cut it to the specs you are looking for? Or does it not work that way? Seems like an ideal way to give the customer what they are looking for, and keep overhead down. I run a retail business, and always give the customer discounts on big ticket special order items. I don't have to pay someone to sell it, and I don't have to pay space to show it on the floor.

LOL!...now you want a "custom cut" for hamburger price?..

Last car I ordered had the options I chose. No additional cost. Actually a very good deal for me and him, the dealer was guaranteed a profit!

Before that, I told him the car I wanted (used), he found it for me (a hard to find 6-speed in black), for a $1500 finder's fee plus Mannheim auction fee ($500) and shipping ($850). If he had purchased the car, put it on his lot, the markup would have been 20% (around $6k) due to warehousing and finance costs, also selling costs. He makes a guaranteed $1500 profit, with minimal effort and risk on his part, I get the car I want at a very competitive price, less than at retail. And the car of my dreams!

Not trying to be a jerk, but what is so outlandish? Money up front for a pre-sold item is worth taking a "finders fee" instead of a higher margin for sitting on an item for 6 months. Makes total sense. Just figured if you said "I want a J/Si1, eye clean, AGS ideal specs, top shelf light performance" and there wasn't one available, there would be a cutter willing to make it happen.

If my auto broker is willing to pocket $1500 to bid on a car, make sure it checks out, get it shipped up here, get the title in my name, then certainly ordering a diamond with certain benchmarks for a similar markup can't be much different. That is roughly 5-9 hours of work for him. Of course, the customer would have to be educated on what they want and not have to pay overhead for service and knowledge, but there are plenty of people out there willing to do just that. I knew what I wanted, didn't need a test drive, and got the car of my dreams. Had I wanted to buy at retail, I would have had to wait on Autotrader for 4 months, deal with some dealership back East (as there are very few of the 6MT in that color scheme in the US), pay more, have the hassle of dealing with shipping and registering it myself. More of a hassle and more cost associated.

 

[jonsey]

So here is what I am hearing are your priorities in order of preference.

1. Size equal to or greater than 8.2mm
2. Excellent Light Return
3 and 4: Color and Clarity. (J or better an eyeclean)
4. Precision Hearts and arrows Faceting

Something like these here are what results from that priority list:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R225-BVVC2K?cid=pricescope ask for idealscope
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R220-54VU13?cid=pricescope ask for idealscope
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4226377-2.14-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4226377&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com Ask for lab report and idealscopes
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R210-3ZBQ4T?cid=pricescope



You should go to Greenlake Jewelers: http://www.greenlakejewelry.com/default.aspx

Also I would suggest you call Erika Winters (she's Coati on PS): http://www.erikawinters.com/ She will know the jewelry scene out on seattle and might also have some lower colored stones (old cuts, but you can still get an idea for color) for you to look at. Who knows, you may fall in love with old cuts.

Thank you! I appreciate your effort to help a newbie.

 

[jonsey]

Now that we have established we are not looking for a stone "just as nice" as HoF (or better), I wanted to say that Gypsy has posted a stone that looks excellent (not super ideal, but looks like a beautiful diamond) and at a bargain price:

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R225-BVVC2K?cid=pricescope

Bummer, I had that diamond bookmarked on JA, says "not available" over there just now. Lurker must have scooped it up. That was the one I was leaning toward, so pretty!

 

[Jambalaya]

Jonesy, after you pick your diamond out and have it all set, please do come back and show us handshots, won't you. It will be great to see the finished product.

 

[jonsey]

Jonesy, after you pick your diamond out and have it all set, please do come back and show us handshots, won't you. It will be great to see the finished product.

Will do! Thank you. Still a couple of weeks out from pulling the trigger, hope I don't miss all the good diamonds!

 

[Gypsy]

Now that we have established we are not looking for a stone "just as nice" as HoF (or better), I wanted to say that Gypsy has posted a stone that looks excellent (not super ideal, but looks like a beautiful diamond) and at a bargain price:

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R225-BVVC2K?cid=pricescope

Bummer, I had that diamond bookmarked on JA, says "not available" over there just now. Lurker must have scooped it up. That was the one I was leaning toward, so pretty!

It's showing as available.

 

[Gypsy]

Jonesy, after you pick your diamond out and have it all set, please do come back and show us handshots, won't you. It will be great to see the finished product.

Will do! Thank you. Still a couple of weeks out from pulling the trigger, hope I don't miss all the good diamonds!

This would have been good information to have, and it would have been respectful of our time if you had stated that up front. We wouldn't have spent our time finding you stones when you aren't planning on buying for several weeks.

When you are ready, just post for recommendations. Make sure you re-post the list of priorities that I had posted above so we don't go through another wild goose chase looking for super-ideals for you.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Jonsey,
I don't think there was any discussion about one important value factor that you will no doubt encounter in your search- fluorescence. It is likely you will see some diamonds that appear to be bargains that have this trait. Since you have some time, it would be worth researching this issue carefully. There are some ardent fans of fluourescence and you may be one of them. As long as you understand that the issue is more complicated than it may seem, you can make the right decision as to what is right for you.
Good luck!

 

[jonsey]

Jonesy, after you pick your diamond out and have it all set, please do come back and show us handshots, won't you. It will be great to see the finished product.

Will do! Thank you. Still a couple of weeks out from pulling the trigger, hope I don't miss all the good diamonds!

This would have been good information to have, and it would have been respectful of our time if you had stated that up front. We wouldn't have spent our time finding you stones when you aren't planning on buying for several weeks.

When you are ready, just post for recommendations. Make sure you re-post the list of priorities that I had posted above so we don't go through another wild goose chase looking for super-ideals for you.

I am sorry, it only occurred to me last night. My wife is leaving for an overseas business trip next week and will be gone for 6 weeks, I realized there is no way I can get this done before she leaves, and I want to be within the 30 day return window when she returns, in case she doesn't like it. I will bookmark these and go from there. I may be OK, it is likely the slower season, with V-day recently past.

 

[jonsey]

Jonsey,
I don't think there was any discussion about one important value factor that you will no doubt encounter in your search- fluorescence. It is likely you will see some diamonds that appear to be bargains that have this trait. Since you have some time, it would be worth researching this issue carefully. There are some ardent fans of fluourescence and you may be one of them. As long as you understand that the issue is more complicated than it may seem, you can make the right decision as to what is right for you.
Good luck!

I was wondering about that; read a lot, but haven't seen any strong blue flouro stones up close! The one that was linked above that was really nice was strong blue, probably why it was in my price range!