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Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ring

PersianGemstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
44
Hello PriceScope world,

A friend recommended this website to hopefully help with answering the many questions I have.

Being that I am new to this website, I figured it may be helpful to give a little information about my situation. My boyfriend and I have recently been perusing jeweler shops and online stores in hopes of finding a unique engagement ring. We found a jewelry designer in L.A. who is willing to create a unique vintage-inspired ring. She suggested that we find a loose center gemstone that is to our liking before she begins the CAD drafting.

I am not a fan of diamonds (please don't hold that against me). Originally we agreed that his birthstone (ruby) would be my center stone and my birthstone (garnet) would be sprinkled into his wedding band. So I am Iranian - when we recently learned about demantoids and how some are mined in Iran, we began thinking that maybe my center stone would be a demantoid and his ring would have the rubies. I figured that if we have a daughter in the future, I can pass down the ring so that she may have a piece of my home country with her. Maybe it will eventually become a family heirloom (one can dream). :pray:

So here are my questions:
1) Where can one find loose demantoids mined in Iran that are over 1ct, from a reputable vendor? I realize they are rare, but that is what we want. The bigger the better. (I hate to admit it, but there are a lot of cultural factors at play including my boyfriend needing to prove himself to my parents).
2) If we buy a rough cut, then how can we be sure that once it is cut into a specific shape that it will have a rich emerald color (not light green or yellow-green) with lots of fire?
3) To follow up with the above question, where does one find a reputable professional who could cut demantoids?
4) Where does one find a reputable gem dealer who sells rough cut demantoids mined in Iran?
5) How large will a rough cut demantoid need to be if we want it cut down to a 1-2ct? (or even larger)
6) Generally speaking, I don't like round cut stones, so aside from a brilliant cut what other cut helps bring out the fire in demantoids? The vintage-inspired ring design we have in mind calls for a cushion, emerald, old miner, asscher, or radiant cut center stone. Would any of these help emphasize the fire in demantoids?
7) How strong is a demantoid? I was cautioned to only have it set within a halo to ensure it won't fall out or get loose over time. Is this true? Does it matter what kind of halo?
8) Is there anything else I should know about demantoids? I'm sure I'll have more questions but that's it for now.

I look forward to responses and any guidance offered. :)
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Don't the current economic sanctions against Iran still prohibit the importation of gems (and gem rough) from that country into the USA? If so, you'll be limited to pre-embargo stones/rough -- or smuggled goods (in which case, the vendor is unlikely to tout it as being from Iran).

P.S. I am easy on my rings & not super-cautious in my choice of colored gems for rings, but even I would not use a demantoid in a ring for day-to-day wear. Also, you wouldn't want a jeweler who has little experience with them to be making the ring; they are easily damaged while being set.
 

PersianGemstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
44
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Thanks for the response. Most of the rough cuts I've found say they are mined in Iran and often cut in Thailand before being sent to the US. I have no clue if they were brought to the US prior to the embargo or smuggled or what have you. Hopefully, they are legit pre-embargo.

As for using it for day-to-day, a friend suggested that I get a raised halo so that the center stone is protected and reduces the chances of it touching various surfaces. With that scenario, would you consider it for day-to-day wear? Or how about a raised bezel setting?
 

Marlow

Brilliant_Rock
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Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Iranian demantoid is really rare - esp. in larger sizes and good clarity + good ( not to dark) color.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/russian-demantoid-2-carat-advice-please.210350/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/russian-demantoid-2-carat-advice-please.210350/[/URL]

If you scroll a bit down you see 3 stones - I bought them 7 years ago from a small parcel offered by a specialist for rare gems and GIA member of the editorial staff.

This was the quickest sold parcel I have ever seen - I was first and took the 3 best stones , a friend and another 2 gem and the rest was sold the same day.

So it will be a real challenge - only Multicolorgems and Mark Kaufman offerer round iranian stones to my knowledge at this time.
It is easier to buy a fine russian 1+ ct then the gem you want.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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38,364
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Marlow|1424063514|3833267 said:
Iranian demantoid is really rare - esp. in larger sizes and good clarity + good ( not to dark) color.

+1 to the above.
Bezeling only protects the girdle and pavilion. The crown is still open and many benches do not have the skill to bezel set it without damaging the demantoid. A halo does the same but offers less protection than a bezel. Even if bezeled, it can very easily end up like this when worn as a ring stone daily.

dsc_276.jpg
 

LoversKites

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
1,733
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

PersianGemstone said:
2) If we buy a rough cut, then how can we be sure that once it is cut into a specific shape that it will have a rich emerald color (not light green or yellow-green) with lots of fire?
3) To follow up with the above question, where does one find a reputable professional who could cut demantoids?
4) Where does one find a reputable gem dealer who sells rough cut demantoids mined in Iran?
5) How large will a rough cut demantoid need to be if we want it cut down to a 1-2ct? (or even larger)

It's a bad idea for you to buy rough and have it cut. There's a lot of things to look for that require an experienced eye and it's always risky. Even experienced cutters don't know what a finished stone will look like most of the time. It's just not a good option.

I also agree with everyone re: durability. Demantoid's hardness is a bit under 7, whereas the silica in the dust around us is 7. So even just wiping dust off the demantoid will eventually wear off it's polish and potentially lead to facet abrasion, like Chrono said.

FYI Palagems are known to carry high end Russian demantoid. They only sell to the trade so you'd have to inquire through a jeweler or someone like involved in the business.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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3,413
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

PersianGemstone|1424062552|3833263 said:
As for using it for day-to-day, a friend suggested that I get a raised halo so that the center stone is protected and reduces the chances of it touching various surfaces. With that scenario, would you consider it for day-to-day wear? Or how about a raised bezel setting?
The one advantage that a pronged setting offers is that when the demantoid in a ring worn daily becomes too abraded and/or chipped (IIRC demantoids are the most brittle of garnets), the stone can be more easily removed, than if bezeled, for refurbishment to the extent possible.

Unlike, say a blue zircon, if your dream engagement ring's fine demantoid of 2 cts or more is damaged while being set or later removed -- see this sad saga
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/my-demantoid-garnet-ring-t150060.html
-- finding a replacement of like calibre (no matter what its origin) would be quite a challenge.
 

OTL

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 27, 2012
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1,349
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

1. Demantoids are not suitable for e-ring. You will find it with abrasions after a few years even if wear with care
2. Iran demantoids are so scarce, I don't think there is anyone selling decent sized stones that are large enough to be a e-ring.
You may see little ones once a while, or maybe just rough that is too small to cut.
3. Not all Iran demantoids are as green as the good russian stones. Some are very yellowish green just as the African ones.
IMHO you may only get a good color Iran demantoid in a decent size from whoever is a real collector happen to sell his collection. On the market? It's a long way to go.
 

Marlow

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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1,726
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

http://www.multicolour.com/gallery/?/gallery/demantoid/&-611772823

The fourth and the last one ( second last maybe too) would be nice for earrings - maybe with some diamonds???

OTL is right - only a collector would maybe sell..."A long way to go" - maybe if your daughter marries....

I love the iranian demantoid and understand you very well - but a not round, 1-2 ct top colored clean Kherman demantoid - not a question of money....

And be careful - some could try to sell a russian stone as iranian if they notice that you want a stone from this source.

And what about very fine turquoise....
 

PersianGemstone

Rough_Rock
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Feb 15, 2015
Messages
44
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Thank you everyone for your insights. I guess I should abandon the idea of a demantoid for an engagement ring and revert back to getting a ruby center stone.

May look into getting a Persian demantoid in the future for either a necklace or earrings that will not be worn on a daily basis.

Thanks again everyone!
 

LoversKites

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
1,733
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

PersianGemstone|1424144693|3833682 said:
Thank you everyone for your insights. I guess I should abandon the idea of a demantoid for an engagement ring and revert back to getting a ruby center stone.

May look into getting a Persian demantoid in the future for either a necklace or earrings that will not be worn on a daily basis.

Thanks again everyone!
Good idea.

If you want help with finding a ruby you can start a new thread. Regardless, find where you stand on heat treatment, and only buy with a report from a reputable lab, preferably AGL.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 22, 2004
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38,364
Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

Good luck on your ruby search. Start a new thread if you need help as we'd love to live vicariously through you. :bigsmile: Ruby is a mine field of its own in terms of often times undisclosed treatment, ranging from heat (which includes diffusion, and the various levels of flux healing) to clarity enhancement (oiling to resin to glass).
 

PersianGemstone

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Messages
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Re: Need help with choosing a Demantoid for an engagement ri

I'll get that new thread started right now! :D
 
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