Oec, Tranny, or Omb colour comparison to RMB...

[ccuheartnurse]

Hi Everyone...

I'd like to know what folks that are in to old cuts have to say regarding acceptable colour (which I'm aware is purely subjective but a consensus would be awesome) in their OEC, Tranny, or OMB. If say you are ok with a F, G, H , I , J, etc..MRB H&A ...what would you consider equal to that grade in an old cut. Same? Lower but shows up the same? And how does Fluoro play in to the quotient. I have a 2.47 ct J, VVS1 stone with medium Fluoro. I see some tint with the stone. Doesn't bug me because I was aware of the colour I was buying but I wondered, with old cuts, would you consider the same colour stone as you would a modern cut? Would I, or should I, expect to consider Old cuts in the same category or would you think that a K - L - M (with fluoro) be about the same? Looking for thoughts on colour.

If there are any threads you can link to for information that would be great...thanks..

Judy

 

[arkieb1]

I think it depends on the stone, in some stones its true OECs hide or mask colour slightly better than modern round brilliants do, but that being said if you are colour sensitive you will always notice the colour regardless. And every stone depending upon the underlying body colour or base tint and undertone can look slightly different so it's not just cut that impacts face up colour.

 

[chrono]

It depends on how well cut the stones are as well as personal preference. Whether modern or antique, a well cut stone will always face up whiter than a poorly cut diamond. As to colour, there are some who don't want to see any tint in their MRBs but love the warmth of their O-P old cut stones.

 

[RandG]

The J/K/L range is a sweet spot for me but I collect everything from H to M. I like and appreciate the lower end of the scale too, but I tend to avoid going there. In order to really know your preference its important to see and play with lot's of different stones. Most true old cuts pre-date the modern grading scale so you really can't compare, on any level.

Here is a side-by-side pic of an H (Good, Ft Fl) euro and H modern (triple EX, no Fl). M on the far right in the second pic.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Thank you ladies for responding. I know logically colour is a subjective issue & I think I was pulling at straws here because I'm not that familiar with old cuts. All makes sense to see & evaluate them in hand as I can see there is such a variance in the colour spectrum. It's positively frustrating to say the least to not have the availability to these beauties. Having them sent across the border is a pain not to mention costly because of duty fees, which are not refunded that I am aware of. Driving to Buffalo isn't always an option. I apologize in advance for my inane questions & I'll try to keep it at a minimum. R&G, the stones look very close in colour. I wouldnt have thought the M was an M! Looks like my J. Thats a good thing. LOL

I'm going to have to trust the vendor I eventually buy a stone from to be truthful about face up colour.

If anyone on PS is from Toronto & knows a good shop that carries Old cuts, either in the GTA or surrounding cities, please post it here.

 

[RandG]

Glad you can see that! My J stones are more white than the modern H. Even the M is only negligibly warmer.

You're looking for a piece of original fine art. I would take it slow. You're doing all the right things, asking good questions. If you find options, don't hesitate to post them, although I wouldn't recommend posting a link/vendor, only photos/video.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Thank you.

I haven't posted for some time & I got rusty. Forgot to omit the vendor link. Will pay more attention to that.

 

[chrono]

Reach out to Charmy. She could be located close to where you are and has all sorts of stones from modern to antique.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Thanks Chrono..really appreciate the input. I feel like quite the newbie I was in 2002 asking for advice about my " H & A round stone"...LOL There is always room to learn isn't there?

I deal with crisis every day in critical care cardiology , & thank gawd that bling is my escape.

 

[arkieb1]

I agree talk to Charmy I am sure she can suggest a range of places to go and visit. Bill Le Boeuf jewellers is one;

http://www.billleboeufjewellers.com

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Thanks Arkieb1, I have this vendor in my saved files. I've never visited them or asked about their inventory. I think a major snow storm is heading my direction so I might contemplate just giving them a call. Thank you for reminding me they are arounds. Will come in handy.. LOL Again...thanks....

 

[pyramid]

Glad you can see that! My J stones are more white than the modern H. Even the M is only negligibly warmer.

You're looking for a piece of original fine art. I would take it slow. You're doing all the right things, asking good questions. If you find options, don't hesitate to post them, although I wouldn't recommend posting a link/vendor, only photos/video.

The J color is much more creamier than the H. You can only estimate color on stones face down though.

In a round brilliant diamond I can see color starting at H so wouldn't go below G but prefer colourless. In an old cut I would get an L if it wasn't grey tone in the tint. I like genuine antiques and would be worried about a new cut old style because they are being recut now by many cutters and then sold on by owners 2nd hand without disclosing they are not a genuine old cut. I would buy a wonky cut one therefore so I knew it was antique but I would think there will be some cutters faking those too by now as old cut has been the rage and fashion for more than 10 years now.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Wow..the cutters are faking a wonky cut? I dont know what to think about that. If these cutters/suppliers/ vendors disclose the stone (s) as such, I guess is upfront & buyer is informed. Otherwise, is a fraudulent act. Sneaky since a lot of folks like the romanticism & uniqueness of a genuine OEC Or cushion.

I have been watching a lot of videos on You Tube regarding colour & facet pattern. I've come to the conclusion, I need to stick to J-K-L (at the VERY least of my colour range, but ideally I should continue to look for a J. Not a lot of OEC (genuine) on the sites I'm looking at via PS that are J in colour. The AVR yes, but most of what I might want is sold out. So if I cannot find a J or higher, then I have to reevaluate.

I would ideally like to find an SI-1 J with mod.Blue.Fluoro. I see a lot of lovely SI-1 makes showcased on You Tube & posted references here on PS, then again, I am open to J - k - L(with Fuoro).

Judy

 

[missy]

Glad you can see that! My J stones are more white than the modern H. Even the M is only negligibly warmer.

You're looking for a piece of original fine art. I would take it slow. You're doing all the right things, asking good questions. If you find options, don't hesitate to post them, although I wouldn't recommend posting a link/vendor, only photos/video.

The J color is much more creamier than the H. You can only estimate color on stones face down though.

In a round brilliant diamond I can see color starting at H so wouldn't go below G but prefer colourless. In an old cut I would get an L if it wasn't grey tone in the tint. I like genuine antiques and would be worried about a new cut old style because they are being recut now by many cutters and then sold on by owners 2nd hand without disclosing they are not a genuine old cut. I would buy a wonky cut one therefore so I knew it was antique but I would think there will be some cutters faking those too by now as old cut has been the rage and fashion for more than 10 years now.

I agree completely. In a modern cut I could not tolerate anything below a GIA G but in old cuts (depending on the specific diamond ofc) GIA L seems to be my sweet spot. It feels romantic and soft and the perfect white and bright (to me).

It's best to find vendors who have a liberal return policy so you can live with the stone for a while and evaluate how you feel about it in different lighting situations and over some time to really get to know the stone.

Good luck with your search Judy and enjoy the hunt!

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Thank you Missy.

Well..I've gone over the hump that I am no longer afraid to jump in the deep end for an OEC. I'm getting one.

I'm still hung up on colour. So many of you ladies here embrace the lower colours. I am still sitting on the fence about that. I have found a stone with Grace I like & is a J with Fluoro. Can I link directly to the stone? I dont know the rules anymore here. I'd love some feedback on it. Coincidentally, Adam has an L but I had dismissed it based on it being an L. Now I'm 2nd guessing myself. I think logically, if both stones were graded by GIA then the J would be whiter. Right? Perhaps someone on PS has had the L in their hands & can comment on it?


Judy

 

[ccuheartnurse]

I'm putting the colour thing to rest for once & for all.

I was able to get to Bill Le Boeuf Jewellers in Barrie, Ontario today to look as some OEC's Adam had in stock. The 2.43 OEC, JK, SI-1 was the main reason I went to his shop. Lucky for me he had also gotten in a couple of newly graded OEC's, a J & a K, both with no fluoro. I had brought my J with me to compare to the stones. I wish I had written down the Gia graded OEC's that had just come in, they were lovely patterns, clean, & very lively stones. Adam said he would have them up on the website shortly. I also tried on a 2.31 ct Antique Asscher M- VS1 mounted in a lovely vintage setting. Viewed & tried on a modern round, 1.54ct, M, VVS1 Gia stone.

Going back to the OEC's. The 2.43ct JK Si-1 is not accompanied by a lab cert ...yet. Adam will gladly send that to GIA if anyone wants a cert for it. He conservatively said it was J-K. In comparing to my stone, I found it was pretty close. I thought perhaps it might even be lighter & could possibly be an I. It's out of round & in person is really a pretty & fun shape because the stone can really adapt to either a round or cushion setting. Adam put it under the microscope for me & the stone was really very clean for an SI-1. I did see a couple of natural facets but nothing deterring the beauty of the stone. The stone was set in a simple 4 prong white setting. I like it. I would consider the stone but it the diameter is smaller than I am looking for. I did like the colour & would be ok with it. Like I mentioned, I think he conservatively thinks is a J-K but I think more like I-J. The 2 smaller round OEC's, one J & the other K were lovely. I could see the colour clearly when held next to my J, both were tinted. The J not as much as the K. And neither had any Fluoro which I think the stones could have benefited from. Adam isn't a proponent of Fluoro but if I had a choice, I would take it with a lower colour stone hands down! Both the GIA J & K have great clarity & I couldnt see much through the microscope. So the bottom line for me was that yes, I can see tint in the J & the K stones, which were both graded by GIA. The 2.31 antique Asscher was a pretty nice stone. I have somewhat limited exposure to Asschers so I can't tell you if it was a great cut stone but it sure was pretty & sparkled like crazy. The stone is set in a ring & the ring was very pretty as well. The stone did face up small for a 2.31, but is commonly understood with a square like this one. As for colour, yes, I completely saw the stone was tinted compared to my J. Even without my J to compare it to, I would have seen the tint. Perhaps because of the shape, seemed pretty tinted. This leads me to the 1.54 M modern round. It was very pretty & lively. Not H & A specs but the stone was really well cut & cupping the stone, I clearly saw some twinkling arrows. It was already mounted in a 4 prong yellow setting & was the right colour mount for the stone. As pretty as it was, I could see the tint in it but not that much. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it wasn't a dingy yellow but a pleasant tint. As much as I am colour sensitive, I would easily wear this ring if was in a yellow setting or rose gold would be ok too. So, if anyone loves yellow or rose gold, & looking for a 1.54 ct round, I think this stone is great for the money. Nice size too despite the depth being a touch too deep which is reflective in the spread dimensions. All in all, is a nice stone.

While I was there I had planned on looking for a little something for my sister in laws 40th bday present & I found a very pretty white gold brooch with a bezeled .23ct OEC. This is a little more special than the Michael Kors bag I was going to buy her. LOL

I'm so glad I drove up to see these stones. There's only so much estimating, contemplating or guessing you can do by looking at videos & pictures. Much better to have the stones to view in person. I found my comfort colour zone....J - K (but more J).

Judy

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Forgot to add...so important to mention this. Adam was absolutely great, was patient & very easy to talk to. He also is very good to negotiate with, is fair & is willing to work with you. I had my 3 stone pendant with me that had a broken lobster clasp which they repaired for a great price while I was in the shop. Excellent customer service.