Whiteflash ACA or Expert Selection – Need To Choose!

[mns12]

ACA H VS2
Depth % 61.7
Table % 57.0
Crown Angle 34.6
Star 50.0
Pavilion Angle 40.9
Crown % 14.9
Lower Girdle % 78.0
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Medium Faceted


Expert Selection I SI1
Depth % 61.4
Table % 57.3
Crown Angle 34.2
Star 49.0
Pavilion Angle 40.9
Crown % 14.5
Lower Girdle % 79.0
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick


ACA is slightly smaller (less than .1 mm I believe) and ~$1,000 more but higher color and clarity of course.

I confirmed with WF that the ES is eye clean.I was also told the measurements and proportions all fall within A Cut Above guidelines, as do the light performance images. It only misses due to very slight asymmetry in the hearts (comparing the size of the 11 o’clock and 2 o’clock hearts). This diamond would still be considered a H&A diamond, and this slight variation in the hearts doesn’t have any affect on the face-up appearance of the diamond.

I was going to purchase the ES since it was right at our budget but if I will be able to notice a visual difference (better brilliance, fire, sparkle, etc.) I will probably pay the premium. Thoughts pretty please!! I have no experience reading Aset and IS.

 

[mns12]

Some additional pics provided by Whiteflash! ACA on left, ES on right.

 

[m-2-b]

I like the H VS-2 ACA--I'd suggest you put it on hold if you're interested b/c it is still listed as available on their website.

 

[mns12]

I like the H VS-2 ACA--I'd suggest you put it on hold if you're interested b/c it is still listed as available on their website.

Thanks. Just curious what is it that you like better then the other?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Both diamonds will be great performers. I think the color and clarity issues are the bigger decision. If I had a better idea of the size of the stones (diameter), it would help me know whether I'd take the tiny bit smaller size and higher price to get the higher color and clarity. Of course, I am a fan of ACA's personally, but my daughter has one of their Premium Select stones and you'd never know as it was just because of excellent instead of ideal polish!

(m2b, I can't figure out how you know which stone that is!)

 

[mns12]

Both diamonds will be great performers. I think the color and clarity issues are the bigger decision. If I had a better idea of the size of the stones (diameter), it would help me know whether I'd take the tiny bit smaller size and higher price to get the higher color and clarity. Of course, I am a fan of ACA's personally, but my daughter has one of their Premium Select stones and you'd never know as it was just because of excellent instead of ideal polish!

(m2b, I can't figure out how you know which stone that is!)

Thanks DS! My main concern is equal performance, I don't think I need to have the ACA name if they will perform the same. I say that but then I keep going back to it..ahhh. Either way I will have a heck of an upgrade in cut/performance. And I did stop in Hearts of Fire to compare H and I color and I really couldn't notice much of a difference. So I guess it would just be a mind clean thing, And I'm thinking if I save the $1k just maybe I can go back to Victor Canera if I decide against the solitaire.

And Shhhh M2b...lol.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I looked at some other threads. I'll tell you, I think you may be disappointed with the diamond in a solitaire if you have been wearing a VC halo! It's diameter is going to be smaller than your old ring.

In one way I'd say go on and get the ACA because it would be so mind clean in every way but price, but I think you are going to miss the halo IF you loved it. Of course, you could get a cheap solitaire now and have Victor reset in a year or two, also.

 

[RockyRacoon]

If it's a $1k difference, and you're going back and forth, it might be worth shelling out the cash to be sure you don't regret your decision.

Is it worth the extra money not to wonder 'what if'? I think it might be!

 

[pfunk]

You certainly are not going to be disappointed with cut or performance of the expert selection stone. If you like I color then I would get the expert selection stone and use the 1k towards something else (possibly a setting like you said). BUT, if you're just going to question whether the ACA would have been better looking, and it will continue to be in the back of your mind like it seems to be already, you're probably better off just getting it right away so you don't have to question whether you missed out. I would guess the visual difference will be hard to detect unless you are very used to looking at diamonds.

 

[mns12]

All valid points, thanks everyone!
But I think you may be right DS. When I tried on 2 cts in B&M store I was so surprised it didn't look nearly as large as I expected! I originally had a 1.5 carat solitaire and then reset to VC Emilya 1 1/2 ago (I believe per appraisal total diameter was 9.85mm). I thought with 2 carats I would like to go back to simple/elegant solitaire but after trying it on I am questioning that. Now I'm thinking maybe very dainty/subtle halo or even a low set bloom style halo to just give a little pop to the center. I think I'll sleep on the ACA vs ES and see if I have some vision in the AM.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Tough decision. It is more of a mental one than visual, though, as long as you truly do not care about the color difference.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Well using your reasoning maybe go with the ES stone, save $1000, and use that towards the VC halo which comes at a premium vs other halo jewelers.

 

[m-2-b]

I would put the extra funds towards the main diamond--I love the H VS-2 combination which I think is worth the difference in price! Then, I would save up for a fabulous VC setting later!

 

[baroque]

Hello. I saw the ACA H VS2 yesterday. Do you want to know my thoughts? I'm hesitant to comment because my decision to not love it is based on past experience that has probably no merit in this case but I'll chime in if you want...

 

[sarahb]

I have 2 expert selection stones from WF, set as sides in my 3 stone, of which WF also did a recut on the center.

I also own an eternity set with half carat ACA's ( I always get confused if the correct terminology is 50 pointers, or .50 pointers etc etc, so I err on writing it out), I don't have it on right now, its either 10 or 12 stones, I think 12. ANYWAY, my point is: the ES stones look just fine. Perform just fine. Really 'knock you out' nice, IMHO. BUT, I have to tell you -- as a PS'r, I do see a very slight degree of difference in those ACA's in that eternity & the ES sides.

Realize, Bob Hoskins advised that since my center was not an ACA (but very near) the sides would be fine as ES stones, he was correct to do so, & that ring simply rocks.

YOU have a choice right now to spent 1k to get an ACA stone. I would do it hands down. The visual difference, would be worth the 1k investment against a stone to have for a lifetime. Think about it, cut IS king in these parts.

 

[pfunk]

I have 2 expert selection stones from WF, set as sides in my 3 stone, of which WF also did a recut on the center.

I also own an eternity set with half carat ACA's ( I always get confused if the correct terminology is 50 pointers, or .50 pointers etc etc, so I err on writing it out), I don't have it on right now, its either 10 or 12 stones, I think 12. ANYWAY, my point is: the ES stones look just fine. Perform just fine. Really 'knock you out' nice, IMHO. BUT, I have to tell you -- as a PS'r, I do see a very slight degree of difference in those ACA's in that eternity & the ES sides.

Realize, Bob Hoskins advised that since my center was not an ACA (but very near) the sides would be fine as ES stones, he was correct to do so, & that ring simply rocks.

YOU have a choice right now to spent 1k to get an ACA stone. I would do it hands down. The visual difference, would be worth the 1k investment against a stone to have for a lifetime. Think about it, cut IS king in these parts.

So, the visual differences between these two diamonds, as far as cut and performance go, will easily be appreciated? Both have great IS and ASET images but the ES stone missed ACA because of slight defects in the hearts. Will this really lead to a very easily perceived difference in visual appearance worth $1k?

 

[mns12]

Hello. I saw the ACA H VS2 yesterday. Do you want to know my thoughts? I'm hesitant to comment because my decision to not love it is based on past experience that has probably no merit in this case but I'll chime in if you want...

Sure, I'm open to all comments

 

[mns12]

I have 2 expert selection stones from WF, set as sides in my 3 stone, of which WF also did a recut on the center.

I also own an eternity set with half carat ACA's ( I always get confused if the correct terminology is 50 pointers, or .50 pointers etc etc, so I err on writing it out), I don't have it on right now, its either 10 or 12 stones, I think 12. ANYWAY, my point is: the ES stones look just fine. Perform just fine. Really 'knock you out' nice, IMHO. BUT, I have to tell you -- as a PS'r, I do see a very slight degree of difference in those ACA's in that eternity & the ES sides.

Realize, Bob Hoskins advised that since my center was not an ACA (but very near) the sides would be fine as ES stones, he was correct to do so, & that ring simply rocks.

YOU have a choice right now to spent 1k to get an ACA stone. I would do it hands down. The visual difference, would be worth the 1k investment against a stone to have for a lifetime. Think about it, cut IS king in these parts.

So, the visual differences between these two diamonds, as far as cut and performance go, will easily be appreciated? Both have great IS and ASET images but the ES stone missed ACA because of slight defects in the hearts. Will this really lead to a very easily perceived difference in visual appearance worth $1k?

Your ring is gorgeous Sarahb!
Pfunk, that was exactly what I am trying to figure out...if ES missed just b/c of slight defect in the hearts would it impact the optimum performance of the stone? I had WF compare and they said there really wasn't a difference but of course I wanted to hear the PS community onions since I am a rookie!

 

[sarahb]

In a objective way, yes--the slight variance in heart pattern will lead to a diminished performance. To what degree, I can't tell you in this particular case.

To my eye it would, when I look at the examples I (ES vs ACA) have here. Plus, on one of my late night readings here, I saw a post by one of the trade people discussing how the cut of the diamond starts with a strong foundation of heart patterns. Maybe I misinterpreted that reading, & certainly don't want to promulgate incorrect info, but that was my take away.

So, you are asking my personal opinion, & it is a subjective opinion, bear that in mind. I have actual goods here, (in my situation, not yours) to make that judgement. But FOR ME, I can easily justify that 1k for an ACA cut. Think about it, expense that 1k out over the life time of your diamond. Its not that much of a leap to go to an ACA. However, your mileage may vary. Only you can make this decision!! Good luck!

 

[sarahb]

Thank you MNS12, appreciate it

 

[AprilBaby]

I have several ACA and I'm biased. If the color doesn't bother you I would be tempted to save the $1000 for the setting. But I adore my ACA's!

 

[pfunk]

I have 2 expert selection stones from WF, set as sides in my 3 stone, of which WF also did a recut on the center.

I also own an eternity set with half carat ACA's ( I always get confused if the correct terminology is 50 pointers, or .50 pointers etc etc, so I err on writing it out), I don't have it on right now, its either 10 or 12 stones, I think 12. ANYWAY, my point is: the ES stones look just fine. Perform just fine. Really 'knock you out' nice, IMHO. BUT, I have to tell you -- as a PS'r, I do see a very slight degree of difference in those ACA's in that eternity & the ES sides.

Realize, Bob Hoskins advised that since my center was not an ACA (but very near) the sides would be fine as ES stones, he was correct to do so, & that ring simply rocks.

YOU have a choice right now to spent 1k to get an ACA stone. I would do it hands down. The visual difference, would be worth the 1k investment against a stone to have for a lifetime. Think about it, cut IS king in these parts.

So, the visual differences between these two diamonds, as far as cut and performance go, will easily be appreciated? Both have great IS and ASET images but the ES stone missed ACA because of slight defects in the hearts. Will this really lead to a very easily perceived difference in visual appearance worth $1k?

Your ring is gorgeous Sarahb!
Pfunk, that was exactly what I am trying to figure out...if ES missed just b/c of slight defect in the hearts would it impact the optimum performance of the stone? I had WF compare and they said there really wasn't a difference but of course I wanted to hear the PS community onions since I am a rookie!

I am also relatively new to this as well, so the experts here should be able to give much better info than I can. Having said that, I have looked at quite a few diamonds now during my search for an ER center stone and would speculate that I would have a very hard time seeing the difference between the two. And you WILL get conflicting evidence here. Some people say they have seen both and both are equally beautiful to them. Then you have others who say they can tell them apart easily. I understand cut is king around here, but I think there is a degree of diminishing returns. You can pay the great premium to know you have a stone cut to very exacting proportions, or you can save some money and get a very, very well cut stone that is still without a doubt beautiful. I decided I was ok with the tier of diamonds just under the "super ideals" because I knew she wanted extra size over perfection in the cut. But I was not willing to sacrifice too much on cut, so I still went with a stone cut to ideal proportions but not branded as a super ideal. I am perfectly happy with that as it still means a gorgeous diamond and I don't sit and question whether the super ideals are that much better. But, if you are not sure, and think you will never be satisfied with anything less than the best, get the ACA and don't look back. Everyone has to compromise somewhere.

 

[mns12]

In a objective way, yes--the slight variance in heart pattern will lead to a diminished performance. To what degree, I can't tell you in this particular case.

To my eye it would, when I look at the examples I (ES vs ACA) have here. Plus, on one of my late night readings here, I saw a post by one of the trade people discussing how the cut of the diamond starts with a strong foundation of heart patterns. Maybe I misinterpreted that reading, & certainly don't want to promulgate incorrect info, but that was my take away.

So, you are asking my personal opinion, & it is a subjective opinion, bear that in mind. I have actual goods here, (in my situation, not yours) to make that judgement. But FOR ME, I can easily justify that 1k for an ACA cut. Think about it, expense that 1k out over the life time of your diamond. Its not that much of a leap to go to an ACA. However, your mileage may vary. Only you can make this decision!! Good luck!

Thank you, appreciate the feedback especially since you have a real life comparison.
I am also getting the Annette u-prong full eternity (15 pt) to replace my original band and that will have ACAs. I plain to wear on my right hand or by itself on left hand when I just want something simple.
I will talk to my husband and hopefully make a decision tomorrow. Indecisiveness is certainly not a good trait!!

 

[baroque]

OK, let me first say that it's a gorgeous stone. Very bright and sparkly. I'm sure you would love it. How it compares to the other one I don't know, but it compared nicely to the bigger stones I was also considering and was a smidgen whiter. I thought it had very lovely presence and really nice color. I quickly eliminated it though, because, besides that I'm looking to hopefully go a little bigger...but also, and it's a mind clean thing for me, part of the inclusions are feathers near and in the girdle. There was one of them that we looked at under the magnifier that was actually horizontal on the girdle facet. Small of course, but since my first engagement ring had inclusions near the girdle and it ended up chipping...who knows if that was the reason, but it's in my head. so AGAIN, I'm sure that there are zillions of people here that will tell you not to worry about this and I'm sure they're probably right, but it's a mind clean thing for me and I would always worry about it. I know this probably doesn't help either way, but I did want to tell you it's very pretty!

 

[pfunk]

Here's an old thread that discusses ACA vs ES, so they may or may not have made alterations to what qualifies each. Thought it may be of interest to you. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-cut-above-vs-expert-selection-whiteflash.29786/

All stones need individual assessment though, so I would take the info that WF gives you on both stones and use that as a determination aid. In this thread, John refers to the differences as subtle and hard to detect unless you are coached through what to look for. Also, another poster mentions Brian having said the differences will be difficult to detect to the untrained eye.

Just goes to show that no matter which you ultimately choose, know that it will certainly be a beautiful diamond and you should be thrilled with it!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Here's an old thread that discusses ACA vs ES, so they may or may not have made alterations to what qualifies each. Thought it may be of interest to you. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-cut-above-vs-expert-selection-whiteflash.29786/

All stones need individual assessment though, so I would take the info that WF gives you on both stones and use that as a determination aid. In this thread, John refers to the differences as subtle and hard to detect unless you are coached through what to look for. Also, another poster mentions Brian having said the differences will be difficult to detect to the untrained eye.

Just goes to show that no matter which you ultimately choose, know that it will certainly be a beautiful diamond and you should be thrilled with it!

Thanks Pfunk. And thank you all for the various observations and comments. It seems that a little additional clarification might be helpful.

Over the past few years we have strengthened the requirements for A CUT ABOVE and we now post our entire list of criteria to our website here:
http://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

Likewise, we have strengthened Expert Selection which is now limited to certified AGS Ideal and GIA Ex with industry standard hearts and arrows (rounds). At the time of the discussion in the thread referenced by pfunk above, Expert Selection was very mixed. Subsequently we created a third in-house category called Premium Select for diamonds that did not meet all the requirements for Expert Selection.
http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/what-are-expert-selection-diamonds.htm

I will say that the visual difference between A CUT ABOVE and Expert Selection is often difficult or impossible to see without light performance assessment tools. Just as the visual differences between a Flawless and VS clarity are often difficult or impossible to see without magnification. Our remote customers tend to want our super ideal brand because it has been so meticulously manufactured and vetted. I would say customers coming to our store are a little more inclined to take advantage of the cost savings of the Expert Selection or even Premium Select when they see them in person.

I hope that sheds some additional light.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am leaning toward the advice that m2b gave...get the ACA now and wait and do the setting when you save up. $1000 for top cut and a grade higher in color and clarity is worth it, in my opinion. I was trying before to adapt my answer to your needs, but when it comes down to it, I know that I'd choose the ACA with higher color and clarity. I even get ACA's for my stud earrings and it is worth having no regrets!

I am so glad that Bryan clarified the current classifications! ES certainly is a fine choice, as well.

 

[mns12]

OK, let me first say that it's a gorgeous stone. Very bright and sparkly. I'm sure you would love it. How it compares to the other one I don't know, but it compared nicely to the bigger stones I was also considering and was a smidgen whiter. I thought it had very lovely presence and really nice color. I quickly eliminated it though, because, besides that I'm looking to hopefully go a little bigger...but also, and it's a mind clean thing for me, part of the inclusions are feathers near and in the girdle. There was one of them that we looked at under the magnifier that was actually horizontal on the girdle facet. Small of course, but since my first engagement ring had inclusions near the girdle and it ended up chipping...who knows if that was the reason, but it's in my head. so AGAIN, I'm sure that there are zillions of people here that will tell you not to worry about this and I'm sure they're probably right, but it's a mind clean thing for me and I would always worry about it. I know this probably doesn't help either way, but I did want to tell you it's very pretty!

I appreciate the feedback baroque! Honestly, I hadn't thought much about the feathers/inclusions but I did ask WF about inclusions and was told that neither posed a risk to the stone. I am hoping/assuming that if it made the ACA or even Expert Selection that it would not be an issue. But I do understand it being a mind clean thing for you.

And funny, I went back and read a few of your threads and it seems we are in a similar situation. I also lost my 1.5 ct ER, have been over reading and obsessing, and recently went to Hearts of Fire to compare colors as well. You aren't a Virgo are you..ha ha.

Did your trip to Houston help you get closer to a decision?
If only money were no object!!

 

[baroque]

I appreciate the feedback baroque! Honestly, I hadn't thought much about the feathers/inclusions but I did ask WF about inclusions and was told that neither posed a risk to the stone. I am hoping/assuming that if it made the ACA or even Expert Selection that it would not be an issue. But I do understand it being a mind clean thing for you.

And funny, I went back and read a few of your threads and it seems we are in a similar situation. I also lost my 1.5 ct ER, have been over reading and obsessing, and recently went to Hearts of Fire to compare colors as well. You aren't a Virgo are you..ha ha.

Did your trip to Houston help you get closer to a decision?
If only money were no object!!

Hi mns12, no I'm a Leo, and that's even worse than a Virgo! LOL! I'm an OCD perfectionist and that's why I narrowed my options to the ACA or Brian Gavin, to relieve myself of making the decision about cut and/or stone performance itself, that made it easier.
I think you would be very happy with the ACA , I thought it was gorgeous and really had to ask myself if I was sure that the feathers mattered to me that much...because I really liked the color and the overall presence of the stone. I didn't see the other one you are considering, but given that this is an "H" over the "I" option, I would say the extra $1K and the ACA pretty much, for me, would be a no-brainer. I will post about my trip on my thread, I don't want to hijack yours!

 

[pyramid]

OK, let me first say that it's a gorgeous stone. Very bright and sparkly. I'm sure you would love it. How it compares to the other one I don't know, but it compared nicely to the bigger stones I was also considering and was a smidgen whiter. I thought it had very lovely presence and really nice color. I quickly eliminated it though, because, besides that I'm looking to hopefully go a little bigger...but also, and it's a mind clean thing for me, part of the inclusions are feathers near and in the girdle. There was one of them that we looked at under the magnifier that was actually horizontal on the girdle facet. Small of course, but since my first engagement ring had inclusions near the girdle and it ended up chipping...who knows if that was the reason, but it's in my head. so AGAIN, I'm sure that there are zillions of people here that will tell you not to worry about this and I'm sure they're probably right, but it's a mind clean thing for me and I would always worry about it. I know this probably doesn't help either way, but I did want to tell you it's very pretty!

The original poster said above re the feather 'There was one of them that we looked at under the magnifier that was actually horizontal on the girdle facet' - can White flash tell us then why the original poster was told there was no durability issues, if we are not supposed to buy diamonds with feathers at the girdle?