Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or AVC?

[sparkly]

Radiant cut experts here on PS, please help me evaluate the cut of this diamond:

GIA Cert.
Cut-Cornered Rectangular Modified Brilliant

1.75ct G-VVS2
Size: 8.34 x 6.21 x 4.15 mm
Polish:Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Depth: 66.8%
Pavilion Depth: 52.3%
Table: 67.0%
Girdle: Medium to Thick
Crown Height: 11.9%

Here's the facet pattern on the GIA cert:

http://www.pricescope.com/files/images/img_4100.JPG[/img

I like the rectangular shape of this radiant cut diamond. The pin-fire flashes look nice to me but only under certain lighting conditions (either in bright daylight or in a well-lit room). In regular diffused lighting environment, it is definitely not as bright as my round brilliant or August Vintage Cushion diamonds.

My questions are: Is this diamond considered well cut for a Radiant diamond? Is its lack of brightness (relative to a round brilliant and AVC) in regular lighting environments typical of radiant cut diamonds? Would recutting be able to noticeably enhance its brightness and performance under more lighting environments?

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

 

[sparkly]

Re: Radiant Expert Opinion Needed on this Diamond Please!!!

Oops, looks like the facet image did not load.

Anyway, its facet pattern looks exactly like the one posted for Original Cut Radiant diamonds on this website (both top and bottom views):

http://radiantcut.com/DefiningOriginal.aspx

 

[tyty333]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Unfortunately, fancy cut stones like radiants can not be evaluated by the number (or facet pattern on the grading report).

We would need images and an aset to see how well the stone was preforming.

If you have any of the above, please post and we'll have a look (or if you can give us a link to a stone you have put on hold).

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi Sparkly,
As tyty mentioned numbers don't tell us the story on a radiant.
Unfortunately neither will a facet plot off a GIA report- two stones with identical plots can look quite different.

About the light performance of radiant cuts, and comparing cuts in general.
There's a lot of factors I consider. The flashes coming off an RBC or vintage style cushion higher intensity as compared to a well cut Radiant in some lighting situations- but them again, there's lighting situations where the Radiant will appear brighter.
There's a lack of contrast in a well cut radiant, which means less dark areas. Sometimes this is perceived as a more consistent sparkle from edge to edge
The edge to edge brightness also means that a well cut radiant may perform well in terms of visual size compared to other fancy shapes as well.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi Sparkly,

As David said there's no way to evaluate the cut of the radiant based on the info you've provided, except to note that I see no red flags - everything that I can see looks great but there is much I cannot tell.

It seems from your post that you have seen the diamond in person and your observation that it reflects light differently than a round or AVC makes sense - it is supposed to. All diamonds look different as the lighting conditions and the diamonds orientation to the light and to your eye changes. They also look different when they are in motion than they do when they are at rest. Only you can decide what you like best, based on all of the various looks each diamond provides in all the various conditions.

It's certainly not unfair to compare any diamond to any other diamond but it is important to remember that the reason a radiant doesn't reflect light exactly the same way a round does is because its not supposed to. The cutter hasn't tried to make it look like a round and failed. The cutter has tried to make it look like a well cut radiant and hopefully succeeded. The many people who love radiants love them because they love the way radiants look and it is success in achieving that look that defines whether it is well cut, not how close it comes to looking like a square or rectangular roundstone.

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Thank you, tyty333, Rockdiamond, and Radiantman for your feedback! I was hoping experts like you would chime in on my post and was very happy to see your comments.

I will try to post some pictures if I can figure out how to do so here. This is the first radiant diamond that I own and I just don't know what to expect. I want to get a nicer setting with side stones but don't want to spend the extra money until I feel confident that it is a well cut radiant. I like the look of a rectangular radiant diamond partly because it looks so different than a round and this radiant was the biggest spread that I could find at my budget.

So here we go. Hope the images will load successfully this time. Please let me know if this looks like a well cut radiant to you experts' eyes...

This picture was taken on a cloudy day in my car:

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

This picture was taken under indoor household lighting:

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Here's a better close up taken in my car on a cloudy day:



There's a small "bow tie" visible from certain angles. Not sure how big of a deal it is.

So what do you all think? Does this radiant diamond appear well cut? If not, can you share images of a well cut rectangular radiant diamond so that I know what to expect or how far off my radiant is from the "best performing" radiant diamonds out there. From what I can gather on this forum, it sounds like there are no concrete parameters for an "ideal" cut radiant diamond. I wish I could compare a bunch of radiant diamonds side by side but it is often not very practical from a consumer's stand point. I also did not discover the Original Radiant Cut until much later and didn't have a chance to see one myself.

 

[RADIANTMAN]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi Sparkly,

Your radiant looks beautiful - enjoy it. From everything I can see it's beautifully cut.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

I'm not a radiant expert like Stan, but it looks beautiful to me in those photos. The ring design is lovely and unique, and the open quality of the design allows the radiant to "breathe". It not only makes the diamond easier to keep clean, but also allows some light to enter below the girdle, which is a good thing for this style cut. Whoever made this piece really knew what they were doing.

Congrats!

 

[AlexPark]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Thank you Mr. Grossbard! I feel much better about my diamond now. This forum is awesome to connect consumers with experts in the confusing diamond trade

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

The ring design is lovely and unique, and the open quality of the design allows the radiant to "breathe". It not only makes the diamond easier to keep clean, but also allows some light to enter below the girdle, which is a good thing for this style cut. Whoever made this piece really knew what they were doing.

Congrats!

Thank you Texas Leaguer! These were the reasons that I liked the setting and bought it on the spot. It looked very nice under the lighting in the jewelry store. I only wish that they used better quality melee in the setting. Does Whiteflash only use ideal cut melee in the settings? How about the designer brands carried on Whiteflash?

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi Sparkly,
About the light performance of radiant cuts, and comparing cuts in general.
There's a lot of factors I consider. The flashes coming off an RBC or vintage style cushion higher intensity as compared to a well cut Radiant in some lighting situations- but them again, there's lighting situations where the Radiant will appear brighter.
There's a lack of contrast in a well cut radiant, which means less dark areas. Sometimes this is perceived as a more consistent sparkle from edge to edge
The edge to edge brightness also means that a well cut radiant may perform well in terms of visual size compared to other fancy shapes as well.

Mr. Friedlander, thank you for your feedback. I think I understand better now why I like my radiant diamond even though it is sometimes not as bright as other shapes. I thought there was a concensus that rectangular radiants are not as brilliant as a round brilliant but under some lighting conditions, my rectangular radiant appears almost brighter than my round. I also like how "big" it looks especially in the halo setting. People have commented that it looks like a 2 ct even though it is only 1.75 ct. Maybe it is further confirmation that my radiant diamond is "well cut"? I hope so.

btw, I love the fancy color diamond rings on your website and can't stop looking at them

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

I would return the setting if you are not happy with it. No reason to waste money. You can certainly find well made settings made with clean, excellent cut melee.

I think it is hard to find well cut radiants. Canuk Gal has one of the nicest ones I have seen. Hers is more of a symmetrical cut that some of the more crushed ice kinds. I do not think it is fair to compare them to an ideal cut round or an AVC. Those are cut to have ideal light performance and I think it would be extremely rare to find a radiant with light performance at that level. But it all depends on what you personally prefer.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

I think the stone looks pretty.

As for whether it's unfair to compare it to a round or AVC... here are my thoughts.
I've been lucky enough to be able to compare many different shapes to one another side by side.

I have an asscher. It's a well cut asscher, but it's not an Octavia and head to head with a really spectacular cushion, for example, or a cut cornered brilliant with great performance (like a lucida) ... it's still a pretty stone, but there is a definite difference. And if I wanted it let it bother me, I could EASILY.

But it IS a pretty stone, my asscher, on it's own. And I have no intention of changing it out: it is the stone my husband proposed with. It's here to stay. So I don't compare it other stones. In fact I make a POINT of not comparing it to other stones. And I'm on PS every day.

But I don't have a return policy and I DO have a a sentimental attachment to it.

Now, I don't know your situation, but if you HAVE a return policy AND the stone does bother you AND you don't have an emotional attachment to it, then MAYBE you can think about returning it and looking around for something different.

But there is no REASON to, because of some ideal standard on PS, only if it is something that bothers you AND you feel the need to do something about it.

If you like the stone, though, just stop comparing it to other stones. And just accept it for what it is: yours. You'll be happier. It's what I did.

Anything can drive you crazy if you let it. But you can opt-out of letting it.

I would, however, return that setting ASAP.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

The ring design is lovely and unique, and the open quality of the design allows the radiant to "breathe". It not only makes the diamond easier to keep clean, but also allows some light to enter below the girdle, which is a good thing for this style cut. Whoever made this piece really knew what they were doing.

Congrats!

Thank you Texas Leaguer! These were the reasons that I liked the setting and bought it on the spot. It looked very nice under the lighting in the jewelry store. I only wish that they used better quality melee in the setting. Does Whiteflash only use ideal cut melee in the settings? How about the designer brands carried on Whiteflash?

Sparkly,
We use ideal cut melle in many of our designs. A description of the melle will be available in every jewelry detail page. All of the designers we carry use high quality melee in their jewelry as well.

It is too bad that you are not happy with the melee in your ring. At least that is something feasible to change when you are ready.

Through the years I have heard many people say that the quality of the melee is not that important because the stones are so small and they are only "accent" stones anyway. To me, the fact that the stone is small makes it even more important that it is cut well and clean. One relatively small inclusion in a melee can effectively extinguish it's performance.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi Sparkly,
About the light performance of radiant cuts, and comparing cuts in general.
There's a lot of factors I consider. The flashes coming off an RBC or vintage style cushion higher intensity as compared to a well cut Radiant in some lighting situations- but them again, there's lighting situations where the Radiant will appear brighter.
There's a lack of contrast in a well cut radiant, which means less dark areas. Sometimes this is perceived as a more consistent sparkle from edge to edge
The edge to edge brightness also means that a well cut radiant may perform well in terms of visual size compared to other fancy shapes as well.

Mr. Friedlander, thank you for your feedback. I think I understand better now why I like my radiant diamond even though it is sometimes not as bright as other shapes. I thought there was a concensus that rectangular radiants are not as brilliant as a round brilliant but under some lighting conditions, my rectangular radiant appears almost brighter than my round. I also like how "big" it looks especially in the halo setting. People have commented that it looks like a 2 ct even though it is only 1.75 ct. Maybe it is further confirmation that my radiant diamond is "well cut"? I hope so.

btw, I love the fancy color diamond rings on your website and can't stop looking at them

Ok, I'm blushing.
Please call me David, or Rocky

Sparkly, the stone looks great.
Personally I wish that AGSL would introduce standards that recognized the amazing light performance possible in a well cut radiant like yours.
For now, we can have sellers advertising really nice stones that feature "Ideal Light Performance" based on a system that was not designed to properly evaluate a "sparkly" radiant like yours. Without a proper method to compare, it's not possible to say which one is more "ideal"
Not to take anything away from well cut Vintage Old Mine stones- or round brilliant cuts- this is more about the labels given. The labels like "ideal light performance" are very misleading.

 

[AlexPark]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

Hi Alex,
Welcome to PS.
All due respect, but there's no way to properly assess the ring based on the photos posted.
That includes the setting of the center stone, as well as where the ring was made, and what color and clarity the melee is.

We all welcome new trade members - part of what is expected of us, as trade members is giving answers that don't unnecessarily alarm readers.

 

[AlexPark]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

Hi Alex,
Welcome to PS.
All due respect, but there's no way to properly assess the ring based on the photos posted.
That includes the setting of the center stone, as well as where the ring was made, and what color and clarity the melee is.

We all welcome new trade members - part of what is expected of us, as trade members is giving answers that don't unnecessarily alarm readers.

I only gave him my opinion of the quality and where i think its made because he said he wished they used better melee.. That design, being pre-made,the setting job, bad melee and thin prongs usually means its made in hong kong.

 

[Rhino]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Greetings sparkly.

Totally fair to compare. Just bear in mind that radiant will look nothing like an ideal cut round and/or an AVC. Each of these cuts represent different personalities within diamond that are 180 degrees apart. It is always encouraged to learn as much as you can and most of all to see with your own eyes when possible what intrigues you most to learn what your own personal preference is.

All the best,
Rhino

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

Hi Alex,
Welcome to PS.
All due respect, but there's no way to properly assess the ring based on the photos posted.
That includes the setting of the center stone, as well as where the ring was made, and what color and clarity the melee is.

We all welcome new trade members - part of what is expected of us, as trade members is giving answers that don't unnecessarily alarm readers.

I only gave him my opinion of the quality and where i think its made because he said he wished they used better melee.. That design, being pre-made,the setting job, bad melee and thin prongs usually means its made in hong kong.

There is not a connection between the grade of a diamond or the quality of craftsmanship and the address of the setter. There are excellent jewelers in HK and there are terrible ones in the US and everywhere else (including HK). Each piece should be evaluated on it's own merits.

You cannot tell the address of a manufacturer from a photograph of what they've made. As far as I can tell, Sparkley never mentioned either the country where it was made or even where he/she is.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

I'm not sure it's fair to compare. All three have different scintillation patterns, so it's like comparing an apple, to a banana, to a peach. Some people like one and not the other, some like two and not one, some people love all three. Much like fruit with taste, most people have a visual preference with diamonds. If all three stones are decent cuts one is not better than the other, it's a subjective personal choice.

 

[AlexPark]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

Hi Alex,
Welcome to PS.
All due respect, but there's no way to properly assess the ring based on the photos posted.
That includes the setting of the center stone, as well as where the ring was made, and what color and clarity the melee is.

We all welcome new trade members - part of what is expected of us, as trade members is giving answers that don't unnecessarily alarm readers.

I only gave him my opinion of the quality and where i think its made because he said he wished they used better melee.. That design, being pre-made,the setting job, bad melee and thin prongs usually means its made in hong kong.

There is not a connection between the grade of a diamond or the quality of craftsmanship and the address of the setter. There are excellent jewelers in HK and there are terrible ones in the US and everywhere else (including HK). Each piece should be evaluated on it's own merits.

You cannot tell the address of a manufacturer from a photograph of what they've made. As far as I can tell, Sparkley never mentioned either the country where it was made or even where he/she is.

Hello mr Denver . Long time fan. Learned a lot from you and this website. I recently joined but was visiting this site for some time. I know what your are saying but like I said, my "guess" is most likely right. Merchandise from hk, India, or the US..they have different styles different way of setting...thicken or the amount of metal used and quality of diamonds.. You are not going to used fake leather in a Bentley and or put up a Picasso in a "rent by the hour" motel.. Im sorry if you do not agree with my opinions,but I will never candy coat, I will always be straight foward........

 

[Roqsteady]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Stone is beautiful but from the pictures, the center looks like it wasn't set right...looks like its not centered perfectly. Have a jeweler check it out

Wow, you noticed it in the pictures? You have a very keen eye! It is slightly tilted at an angle. It was a stock setting and I guess I should not expect perfection. I like the design but I think I will have to upgrade the setting sooner or later. I am not happy with the quality of the melee...

its because its made in hong kong. They usual use g/h vs2-si1 or h/i color and i1 stones...

Hi Alex,
Welcome to PS.
All due respect, but there's no way to properly assess the ring based on the photos posted.
That includes the setting of the center stone, as well as where the ring was made, and what color and clarity the melee is.

We all welcome new trade members - part of what is expected of us, as trade members is giving answers that don't unnecessarily alarm readers.

I only gave him my opinion of the quality and where i think its made because he said he wished they used better melee.. That design, being pre-made,the setting job, bad melee and thin prongs usually means its made in hong kong.

There is not a connection between the grade of a diamond or the quality of craftsmanship and the address of the setter. There are excellent jewelers in HK and there are terrible ones in the US and everywhere else (including HK). Each piece should be evaluated on it's own merits.

You cannot tell the address of a manufacturer from a photograph of what they've made. As far as I can tell, Sparkley never mentioned either the country where it was made or even where he/she is.

Hello mr Denver . Long time fan. Learned a lot from you and this website. I recently joined but was visiting this site for some time. I know what your are saying but like I said, my "guess" is most likely right. Merchandise from hk, India, or the US..they have different styles different way of setting...thicken or the amount of metal used and quality of diamonds.. You are not going to used fake leather in a Bentley and or put up a Picasso in a "rent by the hour" motel.. Im sorry if you do not agree with my opinions,but I will never candy coat, I will always be straight foward........

People don't candy coat here either - they just don't assume things the OP hasn't said like it's a fact.

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Thank you all for chiming in. I have read many posts from you regular PS commenters during my research. It's always nice to get feedback from you.

Hi Rhino, nice to run into you at the forum! I am loving those AVC's!

Hi, Diamondseeker and Gypsy, I actually did try to return/exchange the setting but my local jewelry store would not take it back saying the prongs were cut and the ring was sized down (from 6 to 5). Luckily it was a relatively inexpensive setting. I will just see it as "tuition" on a lessons learned I have to say that the lighting in a jewelry store makes everything look brighter and prettier. I was so eager to see my new radiant diamond in a setting that I made an impulse purchase that I have come to regret. So now I am very careful about return policy and will only shop at a place with a good return policy.

Hi Alex and Denverappraiser, I have no idea where the setting was made. I bought it at my local jewelry store on the west coast. At the time, my diamond seemed to fit nicely into it and I liked the design. Honestly, I didn't really know what to look for in a halo setting since it was my first halo. It is fine for now but eventually, I may upgrade to a custom setting with better quality melee and craftsmanship. So many "projects" that I want to do...

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

Hi
Personally I wish that AGSL would introduce standards that recognized the amazing light performance possible in a well cut radiant... Without a proper method to compare, it's not possible to say which one is more "ideal"...

Couldn't agree with you more Rocky! I don't understand why the grading labs can't come up with a standard for fancy shapes to grade the "cut", one of the most important of the 4 c's that actually affects a diamond's performance. I wish every diamond was "ideal" cut so that consumers only need to balance the other three c's and their budget.

 

[sparkly]

Re: Is it unfair to compare a radiant diamond to a round or

I'm not sure it's fair to compare. All three have different scintillation patterns, so it's like comparing an apple, to a banana, to a peach. Some people like one and not the other, some like two and not one, some people love all three. Much like fruit with taste, most people have a visual preference with diamonds. If all three stones are decent cuts one is not better than the other, it's a subjective personal choice.

Hi arkieb1, I actually do like all three shapes. Since I am not familiar with the radiant cut, I started this post to get feedback on the cut grade of my first radiant diamond. I don't know how to determine if mine is "well cut" or not and it sounds like it's a pretty subjective process when it comes to evaluating the cut quality of radiant diamonds. Since I don't have other radiants to compare it against, I was comparing it with other shapes that I have. I can accept that a rectangular radiant may not be as bright as a round or AVC under some lighting environments. I just want to know if my rectangular radiant is as bright and sparkly as any "well cut" rectangular radiants out there.