Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamonds

[ame]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Don't settle for anything that's not absolutely what your fiance and you both want. If that's her favorite ring, though, get that one. Regardless of specs on paper. She is wearing it. Get her what makes her happiest.

Don't pass on fluorescence unless you've seen it in person and know you don't like it. It can be a really nice trait AND save you money getting you a larger stone. It's spectacular in higher colors, as well.

If you can find something that is:
Total depth between 59 – 61.8%
Table diameter between 55 – 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

No, it's not OLD SCHOOL. Those numbers are AGS approved. *eyeroll* You're not going to find those there without major combing through inventory and a seriously patient sales associate. You're hopefully going to find 55-57% range there, likely above 57... but you'll find 55-57 via most ideal vendors. That's where most are cut to. Best yet, 55% with the right numbers. A 55% table with around a 60% depth, a 34.5 degree crown angle and a 40.7 or 40.8 pavilion. It's the secret sauce. In fact--send em that bolded part. lol you'll probably never get a stone through any of em at that rate.

You mean if she likes the visual looks of the ring, then it's alright to go with it even though the specs are slightly outside the cheat sheet? Or would it be better to wait for something within those specs since she'll probably like the looks even more?

Currently, I gave Tiffany the specs and am waiting to hear back. I will update those specs to what you just gave me too.

So fluorescence isn't a bad thing? What is generally a "better" color to accept? Is it generally a negative trait? Or neutral?

So these specs don't really change over time, including AGS / GIA standards?

Hopefully they can find something. Otherwise I may just settle with #5. My gf really like the looks of #4 though (the design mostly). However you said it's a bad idea to settle for that diamond and we should just have them find a better diamond in that setting right?

Thanks!

The specs I gave you are fine. "Ridiculously restrictive" my a$$. They're the AGS standards, which is who actually grades for cut. GIA's "standards for cut quality" are so huge you can drive a semi through them. Take those with a grain of salt. These brands are cut for size, color and clarity, not for cut quality. Those are more the factors they care about. You're not going to get a hideous diamond from these brands. But you can find the best cut based on AGS ideal cut numbers in their inventories, IF that matters to you, it might just take a while.

And yes, if she LOVES that ring and THAT stone, with her eyes, even if they fall outside of the cheat sheet, and she doesn't care about perfect on paper, that's the one to go with. If she doesn't love perfect on paper, that's fine. Go with what she LOVES. Make sure she LOVES it. But if she doesn't LOVE IT don't settle on it and keep looking. Don't settle for what you don't LOVE.

Fluorescence is not a bad thing. Some brands, some dealers frown on it, but it's a naturally occurring trait, and can have a pretty awesome effect on the stone in sunlight.

Definite "better color to accept". Whatever color meets your needs. I wear an H. Not warm at all. Warmer than a D side by side, but if you saw my stone in person you'd probably never know it's an H without me telling you.

I see.
Tiffany has yet to get back to me.

#5 falls within those ideal numbers for AGS, right? I think we may just go with that if Tiffany is getting nowhere.

Do you think there's a noticeable difference between a 2.07 and a 2.16? Dimensions are 8.18 - 8.24 x 5.04mm vs. 8.38 - 8.42 x 5.09mm

So right now #4 is really nice, but the lack of fire is bothering us a little. Ideally #5 does seem to be better. The diamond isn't as clean, and it's smaller, but the specs fall in nicely.

I meant fluorescence comes in blue, yellow and sometimes green? Is there one color that is "better" than the other? Or is it better to not have any? Fluorescence basically gives the diamond a hue of that color, right? So in some cases, say a lower color grade diamond may actually do better with blue fluorescence?

Thanks!

Well if #4 is bothering you at all, it's not the one. Eliminate it. #5 was the one that fell within ideal. Yes it's smaller. But I don't know what you mean by "less clean." You're not looking at anything that was not eye clean at all. Have you seen without magnification any of the inclusions? If not, you're having a mind cleanliness issue we should discuss.

Fluorescence does come in many colors. But blue is the one you "want." And it doesn't really give the diamond a "color" in any other lighting than UV/Black lighting or major sunlight. But blue fluorescence may help cut some of the inherent warmth in a "lower" color diamond. Not a given but in some circumstances it helps offset it. A G or H is not a bad color. It's not yellow.

Tiffany might need some time, as I mentioned before, they tend to carry stones that fall in to larger table / deeper stone territory.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

#4: there is nothing wrong with the stone, it looks nice in the picture. You were the one that said it was not as fiery as another stone, and that this was kind of bothering you and your gf. I said that based on its proportions, #4 theoretically may have less fire. Now, the 2.55 has a bigger table and an even lower crown height... so why are you seeing more fire? One possible explanation is that the 2.55 is bigger and seems to have bigger arrows.

Crown and pavilion angles have an inverse relationship. Raise CA, lower PA. Lower CA, raise PA.

So, if the ring your gf really wants is the Tiffany solitaire, we should do what we can to make her happy, right? Let's try to give her some choices to choose from. Now these numbers are not to live and die by. They are a good starting point but they can be modified based on preferences and availability of stones.

Depth: actually this number is not very important as you think. Not so long ago, we didn't always have angles on lab reports and Internet shoppers had to use total depth as a rough proxy for angles (it doesn't work very well.) Under 59, you're less unlikely to have pleasing angle combinations. Over 63 and you tend to lose too much spread. So 59-63D is not a bad place to start. Actually, the more important thing with spread is to not have a thick girdle.

Since you have already opened up the color and clarity to G+ VS2+, let me make the numbers I gave you earlier a little bit more conservative:

D 59.5-63
T <=59
CA 33.5-36.3
PA 40.5-41.2

AND HCA <=2.5. FYI you do not want to combine low CA and low PA, this is the one thing HCA wil not weed out. So don't combine 33.5CA with the 40.5PA! (I have bumped up D to 59.5 to try to help you avoid that.)

If your salesperson cannot get 5 stones with these parameters we can think about widening them a little. If this gives you too many results, we can tighten the proportion parameters.

Ah I see. This explanation helps a lot.

So ideally, a CA with 33.5 and PA 41.2 would be "ideal" under those parameters you gave?

They found this diamond today. Ame, Julien and also other PS members, can you please give me your opinion on this stone?

Diamond round solitaire design
2.55carat
8.71 - 8.74 x 5.45mm
Color: D
Clarity: VVS1
Fluorescence: None
Triple EX diamond (Precision of cut, symmetry and polish)
Total Depth percentage: 61.6%
Table Size percentage: 58%
Crown height percentage: 14.8%
Crown Angle: 35 degrees
Pavilion depth percentage: 43.4%
Pavilion angle: 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness: Medium to slightly thick
Girdle finish: Faceted
Cutlet: None
Lower half length percentage: 80%
Star length percentage: 50%

It is within the specs Julien gave, but it is slightly outside the specs Ame gave. The table is more by 1%, crown angle is more by 0.1%. HCA is 2.1. Comparing this stone to #4, which is ideally better?

I have not seen it in person yet. This costs the most out of all the rings so far however due to the size, color and clarity. I told them to go down on the clarity and color but they couldn't really find anything between 2.1 to 2.6 carats so far. Hopefully they did up something over the next few days.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Well if #4 is bothering you at all, it's not the one. Eliminate it. #5 was the one that fell within ideal. Yes it's smaller. But I don't know what you mean by "less clean." You're not looking at anything that was not eye clean at all. Have you seen without magnification any of the inclusions? If not, you're having a mind cleanliness issue we should discuss.

Fluorescence does come in many colors. But blue is the one you "want." And it doesn't really give the diamond a "color" in any other lighting than UV/Black lighting or major sunlight. But blue fluorescence may help cut some of the inherent warmth in a "lower" color diamond. Not a given but in some circumstances it helps offset it. A G or H is not a bad color. It's not yellow.

Tiffany might need some time, as I mentioned before, they tend to carry stones that fall in to larger table / deeper stone territory.

Well personally, I guess my gf and I care more about the diagram right now because the cert is right in front of us so we keep looking at the inclusions diagram and list. However, as time goes by, we probably will forget about it. The ring is definitely eye clean. At least I didn't see something, though my eyes aren't that great.

So go with blue fluorescence and totally exclude any yellow colors?

They found 1 more stone, which I posted in the post right before this. Can you please give me your opinion on it? It is slightly out of your specs.

Thanks everyone!!!

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Assuming perfect symmetry, 33.5/41.2 works; 36.5/40.6 works. Inverse relationship. HCA will catch everything except for shallow/shallow combos, like 33.5/40.6.

2.55 DVVS, the numbers are fine, but you need to find it pleasing when viewed in person. Is it better than #4? That depends on the kind of look you prefer. I think there is a good chance you will find it more fiery than #4.

Yellow fluor should be less expensive than blue fluor.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Assuming perfect symmetry, 33.5/41.2 works; 36.5/40.6 works. Inverse relationship. HCA will catch everything except for shallow/shallow combos, like 33.5/40.6.

2.55 DVVS, the numbers are fine, but you need to find it pleasing when viewed in person. Is it better than #4? That depends on the kind of look you prefer. I think there is a good chance you will find it more fiery than #4.

Yellow fluor should be less expensive than blue fluor.

i made a mistake with the dimensions. it is 8.74 x 8.79 x 5.4mm, not what i posted. I posted dimensions for another diamond instead.
Are the dimensions how you determine symmetry? that is how round, or how close to round, the diamond is?

so on paper, this 2.55D VVS has better specs than #4, right? How does it compare to #5?

So a yellow fluorescence will make a D color diamond seem less colorless / less white? or how hard is it to detect fluorescence?

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

HCA is a very simplified model and thus has to make assumptions, one of them is perfect symmetry. Obviously no real diamond has perfect symmetry.

Whether a stone is better than another depends on your preferences. Based on the information, there is no reason to think it is a bad stone and there are many attractive stones that have the same numbers as the 2.55. I like #5, but your gf wants a solitaire, and I don't think your gf should settle for anything other than her favorite setting.

yellow fluoro is a negative because colorless stones cost more. the yellow fluoro means it emits yellow wavelength light when activated by UV light.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

HCA is a very simplified model and thus has to make assumptions, one of them is perfect symmetry. Obviously no real diamond has perfect symmetry.

Whether a stone is better than another depends on your preferences. Based on the information, there is no reason to think it is a bad stone and there are many attractive stones that have the same numbers as the 2.55. I like #5, but your gf wants a solitaire, and I don't think your gf should settle for anything other than her favorite setting.

yellow fluoro is a negative because colorless stones cost more. the yellow fluoro means it emits yellow wavelength light when activated by UV light.

I see.
My gf is neutral between a solitaire and a baguette design right now. Each design has their pros and cons and she understands. Currently, she is more concerned about finding a better diamond, and also getting a better "bang for the buck" than the design, as long as it stays within these 2 designs.

So between #5 and this D VVS diamond, #5 is a better diamond on paper, right?

We haven't seen the D VVS in person yet; still waiting for it to be shipped. Maybe she will like it in person, or maybe she will hate it. I'm just debating whether to have the SAs find more, or to just go with #5 if this D VVS fails to impress my gf.

Between a VS and a VVS, it shouldn't affect the brilliance / sparkle / fire much, right?

 

[ame]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Well if #4 is bothering you at all, it's not the one. Eliminate it. #5 was the one that fell within ideal. Yes it's smaller. But I don't know what you mean by "less clean." You're not looking at anything that was not eye clean at all. Have you seen without magnification any of the inclusions? If not, you're having a mind cleanliness issue we should discuss.

Fluorescence does come in many colors. But blue is the one you "want." And it doesn't really give the diamond a "color" in any other lighting than UV/Black lighting or major sunlight. But blue fluorescence may help cut some of the inherent warmth in a "lower" color diamond. Not a given but in some circumstances it helps offset it. A G or H is not a bad color. It's not yellow.

Tiffany might need some time, as I mentioned before, they tend to carry stones that fall in to larger table / deeper stone territory.

Well personally, I guess my gf and I care more about the diagram right now because the cert is right in front of us so we keep looking at the inclusions diagram and list. However, as time goes by, we probably will forget about it. The ring is definitely eye clean. At least I didn't see something, though my eyes aren't that great.

So go with blue fluorescence and totally exclude any yellow colors?

They found 1 more stone, which I posted in the post right before this. Can you please give me your opinion on it? It is slightly out of your specs.

Thanks everyone!!!

I am rarely going to leave my cheatsheet. Esp on table and depth. There's plenty of angle interchange and minutia that I will work within however. But table and depth I am pretty tight on.

I don't prefer this newest stone because it's got a table above a 57%, and even with a good angle combo, you will still lose fire. It will be a white light return vs color light return situation. But you have to see this with your eyes and make the decision. If it was between this and #5, "on paper" #5 would win for me because it is still the better cut quality stone on paper. So, yes, I'd still go #5 unless your eyes preferred this. Eyes matter just as much as the paper. You guys have to go with what you love, regardless of the paper. But you're getting conflicting information between me and Julie. I prefer tighter specs than she does, and with this budget, you're going to have to decide what is most important to you. Paper or what makes you guys swoon. You simply cannot settle.

I would personally exclude any fluorescence that is not blue. Esp if you're already concerned about warmth, which you are. Yellow fluorescence is only going to negatively affect that.

The inclusion plot unless you get an IF or FL is always going to have "stuff" on it. Whether it is a lot of "little stuff" or one "big thing" (grademaker), what matters is whether or not you can see it, and whether or not having a clean stone in your mind will bother you. If you cannot see it, does it really matter that much to you if it's on the plot? I am getting the feeling it does. But in that case you're paying for what you can't see. There will be no visible difference between a VS and VVS clarities, esp not when well cut, in terms of brilliance. My personal sweet spot is a VS1. It's still mind and eye clean (Yes there's stuff on the plot on paper) but you're getting a nice balance of clean and not really paying more than you have to for clean. A lot of folks here like VS2. Clarity does not affect the stones sparkle, brilliance or fire--that's totally driven by cut quality. When you get down into the much lower clarity ranges is when you might see a difference with an inclusion affecting the stone's overall brilliance. But you're not in that range, nowhere near it.

 

[canuk-gal]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

HI:

I think this is what Julie is hinting at--where (narrow) parameters cause "analysis paralysis" and therefore supersede any other factor in decision making--aka how you perceive and enjoy the stone IRL!

Studying angles and inclusion diagrams (in VVS stones??) take all the fun out of shopping for an engagement ring. I support self education and advocating for getting the "perfect" ring for you but you are not wearing diagrams

Bias can be very limiting even crippling otherwise good judgement. You once saw stones you liked--now in discussing nuances of angles you "believe" you no longer like them. Word of caution, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. As the infamous Davy Jones said in the Pirates of the Caribbean" "The code is actually more guidelines than rules"...

cheers--Sharon

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I am rarely going to leave my cheatsheet. Esp on table and depth. There's plenty of angle interchange and minutia that I will work within however. But table and depth I am pretty tight on.

I don't prefer this newest stone because it's got a table above a 57%, and even with a good angle combo, you will still lose fire. It will be a white light return vs color light return situation. But you have to see this with your eyes and make the decision. If it was between this and #5, "on paper" #5 would win for me because it is still the better cut quality stone on paper. So, yes, I'd still go #5 unless your eyes preferred this. Eyes matter just as much as the paper. You guys have to go with what you love, regardless of the paper. But you're getting conflicting information between me and Julie. I prefer tighter specs than she does, and with this budget, you're going to have to decide what is most important to you. Paper or what makes you guys swoon. You simply cannot settle.

I would personally exclude any fluorescence that is not blue. Esp if you're already concerned about warmth, which you are. Yellow fluorescence is only going to negatively affect that.

The inclusion plot unless you get an IF or FL is always going to have "stuff" on it. Whether it is a lot of "little stuff" or one "big thing" (grademaker), what matters is whether or not you can see it, and whether or not having a clean stone in your mind will bother you. If you cannot see it, does it really matter that much to you if it's on the plot? I am getting the feeling it does. But in that case you're paying for what you can't see. There will be no visible difference between a VS and VVS clarities, esp not when well cut, in terms of brilliance. My personal sweet spot is a VS1. It's still mind and eye clean (Yes there's stuff on the plot on paper) but you're getting a nice balance of clean and not really paying more than you have to for clean. A lot of folks here like VS2. Clarity does not affect the stones sparkle, brilliance or fire--that's totally driven by cut quality. When you get down into the much lower clarity ranges is when you might see a difference with an inclusion affecting the stone's overall brilliance. But you're not in that range, nowhere near it.

I see. Thanks a lot for the informative post.

I saw the rings today and we're now basically deciding which to go with.

I uploaded several pictures. can you please give me your opinion on them? as in based on the current pics (not that good, I know), how would u compare it to the pictures of diamond #4 and #5? (in previous posts. I can re-attach if it's easier for you to see. please let me know.)

So even for a 1% extra in table percentage, it does make a big difference?

This is a very subjective question, but out of these 3 diamonds below, and also looking at pictures of #4 and #5, which is your favorite? Specs wise on paper, #5 is the clear cut winner?

Do these diamonds exhibit a good amount fire and brilliance in your opinion? I can upload more pics / videos if that helps.

I understand what all of you mean by us having to like the diamond rather than just focusing on its specs. The issue for us right now however, is that these diamonds are all nice! There's pros and cons about each of them, and after considering everything, it's just making the decision process harder. So in a way, I figured, if we just get more opinions, or at least judge it based on the specs vs. price, then that'll make things somewhat easier. I'm also very nice to diamonds, so I don't know what to look for other than the basic characteristics.

I don't really mind between a VVS or a VS. I was told by one of the SAs that those inclusions can cause light to be reflected / refracted because of its positioning which in turn may block light entering / exiting the diamond, so that was a minor concern. Hence, I don't really care if its a VVS or VS as long as its eye clean and there isn't any critical inclusions that may cause the diamond to crack or deteriorate (that was one of my original concerns which you guys answered . I wouldn't get an IF because I don't see the point paying a huge premium for it. I had the SAs look for everything within the cheat sheet down to VS and G color that is within 2.1 to 2.7 carats, and they found the D VVS (pics below) which is the "closest" so far.

One other question: is it typical for jewelers (i.e. Tiffany, Cartier) to increase prices annually? I was told by SA that Tiffany is raising prices by about 10% in February.

Please advise! Thank you so much. I am sorry for bugging everyone so much. Hopefully we'll reach a decision real soon!

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

HI:

I think this is what Julie is hinting at--where (narrow) parameters cause "analysis paralysis" and therefore supersede any other factor in decision making--aka how you perceive and enjoy the stone IRL!

Studying angles and inclusion diagrams (in VVS stones??) take all the fun out of shopping for an engagement ring. I support self education and advocating for getting the "perfect" ring for you but you are not wearing diagrams

Bias can be very limiting even crippling otherwise good judgement. You once saw stones you liked--now in discussing nuances of angles you "believe" you no longer like them. Word of caution, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. As the infamous Davy Jones said in the Pirates of the Caribbean" "The code is actually more guidelines than rules"...

cheers--Sharon

I understand what you mean. One of the SAs said the same. Essentially it's just a piece of paper and that's the premium we're paying for it, especially when picking a VVS over a VS. If it were up to me, I rather all the stones come in VS (less premium that way). My only real concern about inclusions was the possibility of "cracking" the diamond or affecting fire, but that's been answered.

Most of these stones we saw, we like. Such as #2, #4, #5 and also the D VVS. I liked #3 too but my gf doesn't, so we're passing on that for sure. As you can see, I like most of the diamonds I listed, because I don't know what's not to like. So the easier way out for me to narrow it down seems to be looking at the specs on paper.

Price wise, they're all really similar, except for the D VVS1, which is about 20 to 25k more than the rest. The others are all within 5k price range of one another, though they are also different in cuts, carat size, specs, brand, etc.

The D VVS1 is the closest to Ame's cheat sheet, but it's also priced the highest. #5 is within the cheat sheet, but it's also the smallest stone. So we're really undecided as to what to pick and would love to have more opinions!

Thanks!

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Unfortunately that photo tells us absolutely zip.

You are in a much better position to judge the stones than people looking at a photo on the Internet.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Unfortunately that photo tells us absolutely zip.

You are in a much better position to judge the stones than people looking at a photo on the Internet.

yea I know that they are not the best photos nor are they good ways to judge.
So by just looking at paper specs, do you think the D VVS1 by Tiffany, Diamond #2 to #4, have a good amount of fire / brilliance?

And by just looking at paper alone, #5 is the best, but at the same time, the smallest diamond. With prices being equal, would you go for it over the rest?

Thanks!

 

[JulieN]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Which stone did your GF like the best? That's the one to go with.

She tells you that she is truly indifferent between 2 or 3 stones, you pick from her choices.

Maybe you liked most of them because most of them are great stones.

And, no, I would not pick #5 because of its numbers. Never.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Which stone did your GF like the best? That's the one to go with.

She tells you that she is truly indifferent between 2 or 3 stones, you pick from her choices.

Maybe you liked most of them because most of them are great stones.

And, no, I would not pick #5 because of its numbers. Never.

she is undecided between #4 and #5. she wasn't around when i saw the newer diamonds today, so she cannot decide on that yet. For me, I am indifferent, since they're all good (and bad in their own ways). Thus, I am trying to get more opinions and insights on stuff that I may have possibly missed or overlooked.

In your opinion, which would u go with? I know this is highly subjective.

So basically, in your opinion, all these numbers, including for the D VVS1 diamond, are all good diamonds? Just that on paper, #5 is better the rest?

Ame, would you entirely exclude this D VVS1 because the table is over by 1%? So for you, you would still go with only #5 right?

Thanks!!!

 

[LLJsmom]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

If you haven't already, Have you taken them to look at them all over the store, somewhere away from the spot lighting? Look at it under the counter. Take them near a window or back behind the counter, just away from the professional spot lighting. See if you can tell a difference.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

If you haven't already, Have you taken them to look at them all over the store, somewhere away from the spot lighting? Look at it under the counter. Take them near a window or back behind the counter, just away from the professional spot lighting. See if you can tell a difference.

I've tried for most of these diamonds. The Tiffany diamonds seem to have the most fire / brilliance, which has to do with their lighting. Even the skin tone in pictures seem to be better. I've tried walking around the store with the diamonds, and it's still the same. They wouldn't let us see it outside the store due to security reasons, and it's hard to see it near the window because of the way the store is set up.

#4 and #5 we saw it close by a window under sunlight that's coming in. #4 has a lot of white light emitting out. Less fire noticeably. #5 looks nice when we shine a light on it, or when we go near the doors. However it's not as easy to see it in the store because of the store's lighting, set up and orientation, which is by far the worst out of all the boutiques (it's quite dark and lights are yellow; i've no idea why they'd do this in a jewelry store because this makes no sense). because of this, I am very undecided about #5. The store's lighting is horrible, but the diamond seems nice, and on paper it is the best.

 

[LLJsmom]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Can you buy the tiffany diamond you like best and then take it to the store that has #5 and compare it? Tiffany has a return policy (or in your case you can still use the credit) right? Might be a hassle but worth the trouble if both stores are in town and close by. What city are you in? What store is #5 from? The specs in the stones are already pretty amazing and I would not base my decision on those anymore at this time. Your fiancé won't be walking around staring at the spec sheet. She will be staring at the stone. I would not give up on comparing the two to see which looks better to your joint eyes. Isnt there a closet behind the counter where the SAs work at Tiffany so you can see it in non-professional lighting?

 

[ame]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

A lot of posts happened overnight.

1) Yes, Tiffanys and the other majors do annual and sometimes semiannual price increases right around late feb and early march. Cartier is the worst about this, they often do more than one a year. On the other board I speak to your lady on, there's TONS of threads about this "what should I buy before the increase..." But it works for them, they get crazy sales upticks coming off of Valentines bec people want to beat the increase.

2) If the one that's just out of my spec sheet is your favorite in multiple environments--and you like the size the best--that might be the one to get. You guys have to love it, and I've said that now about 100 times--you have to love it, and you should choose the one you love even if it's not perfect on paper.

I agree with LLJSMOM on the suggestion that you look into whether or not you can you return it if you take it to HW and hold it next to that ring in person for comparison and end up preferring the HW. That's what I would do if you can. Before sizing it. DON'T SIZE IT if you aren't sure. Because if you end up preferring the HW that is small--which I think you're also hung up on--then you can return it and deal with the credit you're stuck with anyway.

3) Regarding the SAs commentary on clarity affecting brilliance: at the level of clarity you're going with, that will not occur. If you were lower on the clarity scale than this, sure. But it's not going to do anything to affect the brilliance with the minute size of any of these inclusions on the plot at these clarity levels. That was their way of playing your emotions and guilt you into buying a higher clarity stone, and further proof they're BS artists concerned about you buying what they have in the store right now vs getting the best stone for your money in terms of cut. It's an epidemic within the brand.

So you guys are basically down to #2 and #5. #4 I didn't think you guys loved enough to consider--that's the Graff right? If you don't LOVE IT dump it.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Can you buy the tiffany diamond you like best and then take it to the store that has #5 and compare it? Tiffany has a return policy (or in your case you can still use the credit) right? Might be a hassle but worth the trouble if both stores are in town and close by. What city are you in? What store is #5 from? The specs in the stones are already pretty amazing and I would not base my decision on those anymore at this time. Your fiancé won't be walking around staring at the spec sheet. She will be staring at the stone. I would not give up on comparing the two to see which looks better to your joint eyes. Isnt there a closet behind the counter where the SAs work at Tiffany so you can see it in non-professional lighting?

I know they have a 30 day policy but it isn't as "easy" as it sounds to be.
When I tried returning the last ring the last time (diamond was too small for my gf's liking ), it was a big PITA. I understand it's very abnormal and an extremely big deal to return something that's 80k, but their policy was 30 days returns and exchanges as long as item is brand new, undamaged, etc. The store didn't want to take it back at all. Manager gave a lot of resistance. So at that time I gave up, until a friend recommended I call their store in NYC. I did, and they were surprised to hear about it. So they told me to bring it back to the same store, and to call them if the same problem arises. I went back in, said I spoke with a manager in NYC, and the store manager in that store reacted as if I was lying but refused to call. However, the SA was pretty nice. They said the ring has to be sent back to NYC for inspection due to its value, to make sure it's the correct diamond and that it isn't damaged ,which is understandable. However, they refused to give me any paperwork to prove that I did drop off the ring, which was worrisome. Then I kept calling every couple days to see if the processing / inspection is done, but they just kept telling me it's still not completed. I called the NYC store a week and half later, spoke to the same manager and she said she would get back to me. Called me 1 day later, said they never gotten anything and that she had contacted the store so there's nothing I need to do from that point onwards. That same manager called me a week later, said it's been approved for return, but because of the initial date that I dropped it off, I was only eligible for store credit. I was okay with it since I figured I needed to buy another diamond anyhow. I picked another D VVS1 ring with the same SA but decided not to go through with the purchase because the ring wasn't as good as expected and didn't bother picking another because of the manager. Decided to go to another Tiffany store altogether.

So yea, the whole thing is just horrible. I probably will have to jump through a bunch of hoops again this time round if I tried to do the same.

I am in los Angeles. #5 is from Harry Winston.

I went to see the diamond again in several different lighting today. I attached 3 pictures of how it looks under sunlight. It was really nice of them to let me see the diamonds outside the store!

I know it's hard to tell from these pics, but can anyone give me your opinion please? Is it too white / blue and not so much fire?

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

A lot of posts happened overnight.

1) Yes, Tiffanys and the other majors do annual and sometimes semiannual price increases right around late feb and early march. Cartier is the worst about this, they often do more than one a year. On the other board I speak to your lady on, there's TONS of threads about this "what should I buy before the increase..." But it works for them, they get crazy sales upticks coming off of Valentines bec people want to beat the increase.

2) If the one that's just out of my spec sheet is your favorite in multiple environments--and you like the size the best--that might be the one to get. You guys have to love it, and I've said that now about 100 times--you have to love it, and you should choose the one you love even if it's not perfect on paper.

I agree with LLJSMOM on the suggestion that you look into whether or not you can you return it if you take it to HW and hold it next to that ring in person for comparison and end up preferring the HW. That's what I would do if you can. Before sizing it. DON'T SIZE IT if you aren't sure. Because if you end up preferring the HW that is small--which I think you're also hung up on--then you can return it and deal with the credit you're stuck with anyway.

3) Regarding the SAs commentary on clarity affecting brilliance: at the level of clarity you're going with, that will not occur. If you were lower on the clarity scale than this, sure. But it's not going to do anything to affect the brilliance with the minute size of any of these inclusions on the plot at these clarity levels. That was their way of playing your emotions and guilt you into buying a higher clarity stone, and further proof they're BS artists concerned about you buying what they have in the store right now vs getting the best stone for your money in terms of cut. It's an epidemic within the brand.

So you guys are basically down to #2 and #5. #4 I didn't think you guys loved enough to consider--that's the Graff right? If you don't LOVE IT dump it.

I spoke to a Cartier SA today. It seems like they may be increasing again in March this year

I understand what you mean. The issue with me however is that I like all of them! My gf is leaning towards #4 and #5, but not sure which to pick either. In this case, we should just go with whichever that gives us a better price / value? or better specs? Either 1 of those 2, she will be very happy, she said.

I attached some pics of #4 close to the windows. Do you think if it's lacking fire or dull? or is it considered good?

Thanks for the explanations! I tried getting them to find something within VS regions but they kept coming back with VVS stones and said that was all they could find.

Thank you all so much! Hopefully we'll make the decision either tomorrow or within the next couple days!

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I could never buy from Tiffany's, the feel good in exchange for more money, after your experience - the feel good would be gone. At this stage choosing is a matter of taste so a decision you will have to make as others said. I would enforce I wanted a full refund from Tiffany back in my bank account and shop elsewhere.

Even if you returned the previous one outwith the 30 days, was it not within the time limit when you tried to return and were treated badly? Did they not believe you over the phone at New York too? Then no receipt and not returning it to New York, I would be finished with them. Try for a big discount - I know not going to happen.

I wouldn't say no 5 looks duller because it is in full daylight so would be expected to look that way - you can't compare if you can't see both diamonds in the same lighting. With no obstructions.

 

[ame]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Can you buy the tiffany diamond you like best and then take it to the store that has #5 and compare it? Tiffany has a return policy (or in your case you can still use the credit) right? Might be a hassle but worth the trouble if both stores are in town and close by. What city are you in? What store is #5 from? The specs in the stones are already pretty amazing and I would not base my decision on those anymore at this time. Your fiancé won't be walking around staring at the spec sheet. She will be staring at the stone. I would not give up on comparing the two to see which looks better to your joint eyes. Isnt there a closet behind the counter where the SAs work at Tiffany so you can see it in non-professional lighting?

I know they have a 30 day policy but it isn't as "easy" as it sounds to be.
When I tried returning the last ring the last time (diamond was too small for my gf's liking ), it was a big PITA. I understand it's very abnormal and an extremely big deal to return something that's 80k, but their policy was 30 days returns and exchanges as long as item is brand new, undamaged, etc. The store didn't want to take it back at all. Manager gave a lot of resistance. So at that time I gave up, until a friend recommended I call their store in NYC. I did, and they were surprised to hear about it. So they told me to bring it back to the same store, and to call them if the same problem arises. I went back in, said I spoke with a manager in NYC, and the store manager in that store reacted as if I was lying but refused to call. However, the SA was pretty nice. They said the ring has to be sent back to NYC for inspection due to its value, to make sure it's the correct diamond and that it isn't damaged ,which is understandable. However, they refused to give me any paperwork to prove that I did drop off the ring, which was worrisome. Then I kept calling every couple days to see if the processing / inspection is done, but they just kept telling me it's still not completed. I called the NYC store a week and half later, spoke to the same manager and she said she would get back to me. Called me 1 day later, said they never gotten anything and that she had contacted the store so there's nothing I need to do from that point onwards. That same manager called me a week later, said it's been approved for return, but because of the initial date that I dropped it off, I was only eligible for store credit. I was okay with it since I figured I needed to buy another diamond anyhow. I picked another D VVS1 ring with the same SA but decided not to go through with the purchase because the ring wasn't as good as expected and didn't bother picking another because of the manager. Decided to go to another Tiffany store altogether.

So yea, the whole thing is just horrible. I probably will have to jump through a bunch of hoops again this time round if I tried to do the same.

I am in los Angeles. #5 is from Harry Winston.

I went to see the diamond again in several different lighting today. I attached 3 pictures of how it looks under sunlight. It was really nice of them to let me see the diamonds outside the store!

I know it's hard to tell from these pics, but can anyone give me your opinion please? Is it too white / blue and not so much fire?

Yea your experience with the brand unfortunately echoes mine, except we were able, eventually, to get our money back finally. Though, we were not into it anywhere near as much as you are. I understand wanting to walk away, desperately. I can tell that's how she feels by now. I do think it's absolutely BULL that you never got a refund, but based on my experience many years ago, I can tell you that's their game, to play as many as they can, anyway, just to keep you stuck there. "Oh but it's Tiffany, we're the best!" Barf.

Obviously in the sunlight images they look lovely but that still tells us nothing. Was she with you for all of these new expeditions? Did ANY of them give her the warm fuzzies? Is she stuck on 4 and 5 simply because they're not from Tiffany?

Does any one particular one stick out to YOU? I don't prefer 4 but obvoiusly you guys still like that as a contender so you need to keep that in the running and select. Does she not want to be the final decider?

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I could never buy from Tiffany's, the feel good in exchange for more money, after your experience - the feel good would be gone. At this stage choosing is a matter of taste so a decision you will have to make as others said. I would enforce I wanted a full refund from Tiffany back in my bank account and shop elsewhere.

Even if you returned the previous one outwith the 30 days, was it not within the time limit when you tried to return and were treated badly? Did they not believe you over the phone at New York too? Then no receipt and not returning it to New York, I would be finished with them. Try for a big discount - I know not going to happen.

I wouldn't say no 5 looks duller because it is in full daylight so would be expected to look that way - you can't compare if you can't see both diamonds in the same lighting. With no obstructions.

The first time I brought the ring back to return was either right at 30 day mark or a couple days less, if you count it from the date I took the ring out of the store. I paid the ring in several payments over the course of a few days however because CC limit wasn't high enough to ring it all in 1 transaction so I had to swipe the card, pay the CC in full, then swipe it again. So if they count it from the date of the 1st transaction, it is past 30 days. I didn't pay too much attention to it since I was pretty set on getting another Tiffany ring anyhow, but things are now different. I will try to ask for a refund again tomorrow.

The new SA I am working with is off today, so I will ask her tomorrow as well. This Tiffany store carries Patek Philippe, but I am not sure if the Tiffany credit can be used towards it. Logically, it should since it's sold by Tiffany, but I am not sure. If it can be applied towards those watches, then things are probably a lot easier compared to having 80k to spend on Tiffany only.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

Yea your experience with the brand unfortunately echoes mine, except we were able, eventually, to get our money back finally. Though, we were not into it anywhere near as much as you are. I understand wanting to walk away, desperately. I can tell that's how she feels by now. I do think it's absolutely BULL that you never got a refund, but based on my experience many years ago, I can tell you that's their game, to play as many as they can, anyway, just to keep you stuck there. "Oh but it's Tiffany, we're the best!" Barf.

Obviously in the sunlight images they look lovely but that still tells us nothing. Was she with you for all of these new expeditions? Did ANY of them give her the warm fuzzies? Is she stuck on 4 and 5 simply because they're not from Tiffany?

Does any one particular one stick out to YOU? I don't prefer 4 but obvoiusly you guys still like that as a contender so you need to keep that in the running and select. Does she not want to be the final decider?

wow I cannot imagine they did the same thing to someone else besides me. My gf was so mad the other day too it wasn't even funny. My gf absolutely hates the brand right now, and since it's a ring for her, I've decided not to go with Tiffany anymore.

She was with me during some of the times, but not always.

it's hard to decide between #4 and #5. #5 is a nice diamond on paper and in person, #4 is not as nice of a diamond on paper, and visually, it's nice too, except like everyone has pointed out, it's lacking in fire but has a lot of white light. In terms of design, we like #4 setting design the most - it has a cleaner and more refined look in my opinion, which I think may be more suitable for my gf since her ring size is small. So right now we're thinking of whether to go with a diamond that we like more, or a setting that we like more.

I'd love to get a Graff ring that's within those specs that you guys recommended, but they don't have much inventory so I think that's impossible. It was hard enough for them to find #4 that they had to go through the loose diamonds and made it into a ring just to show it to us.

What do you guys think? Please advice!

Thank you all so much as well.

 

[pyramid]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I could never buy from Tiffany's, the feel good in exchange for more money, after your experience - the feel good would be gone. At this stage choosing is a matter of taste so a decision you will have to make as others said. I would enforce I wanted a full refund from Tiffany back in my bank account and shop elsewhere.

Even if you returned the previous one outwith the 30 days, was it not within the time limit when you tried to return and were treated badly? Did they not believe you over the phone at New York too? Then no receipt and not returning it to New York, I would be finished with them. Try for a big discount - I know not going to happen.

I wouldn't say no 5 looks duller because it is in full daylight so would be expected to look that way - you can't compare if you can't see both diamonds in the same lighting. With no obstructions.

---------------
The first time I brought the ring back to return was either right at 30 day mark or a couple days less, if you count it from the date I took the ring out of the store. I paid the ring in several payments over the course of a few days however because CC limit wasn't high enough to ring it all in 1 transaction so I had to swipe the card, pay the CC in full, then swipe it again. So if they count it from the date of the 1st transaction, it is past 30 days. I didn't pay too much attention to it since I was pretty set on getting another Tiffany ring anyhow, but things are now different. I will try to ask for a refund again tomorrow.

The new SA I am working with is off today, so I will ask her tomorrow as well. This Tiffany store carries Patek Philippe, but I am not sure if the Tiffany credit can be used towards it. Logically, it should since it's sold by Tiffany, but I am not sure. If it can be applied towards those watches, then things are probably a lot easier compared to having 80k to spend on Tiffany only.



It doesn't seem so bad if near the end of the 30 days then. If you want a watch too then that is different. Tiffany being a high end jeweller are likely to be different probably than a normal store they want to put out a feeling I would imagine that how could there be something not to love about their product as I'm wire is to an extent true. Regarding what you wrote about setting and diamond to me the setting is 5% important the diamond 95% But you probably wouldn,'t want to reset a brand diamond unless into another from the same company. Most money is in the diamond.

 

[MollyMalone]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

* * * it's hard to decide between #4 and #5. #5 is a nice diamond on paper and in person, #4 is not as nice of a diamond on paper, and visually, it's nice too, except like everyone has pointed out, it's lacking in fire but has a lot of white light. In terms of design, we like #4 setting design the most - it has a cleaner and more refined look in my opinion, which I think may be more suitable for my gf since her ring size is small. So right now we're thinking of whether to go with a diamond that we like more, or a setting that we like more.
I'd love to get a Graff ring that's within those specs that you guys recommended, but they don't have much inventory so I think that's impossible. It was hard enough for them to find #4 that they had to go through the loose diamonds and made it into a ring just to show it to us.
What do you guys think? Please advice!
Thank you all so much as well.

Especially when prepared to spend $80,000 or more, I think it would be a shame to settle, i.e., end up with a ring which doesn't delight you in both respects. Since a setting of classic design is her desire, would you two now consider the possibility of a ring that is not from Graff, Harry Winston, or such other "maison"?

 

[Mayk]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I think I read here somewhere you were in LA.. when you mentioned HW #5... if I were you I'd contact Victor Canera and drop by and take a look at his diamonds and settings. I think you could get a lot more for your money and a beautiful setting too.

 

[CuteTeacup]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

* * * it's hard to decide between #4 and #5. #5 is a nice diamond on paper and in person, #4 is not as nice of a diamond on paper, and visually, it's nice too, except like everyone has pointed out, it's lacking in fire but has a lot of white light. In terms of design, we like #4 setting design the most - it has a cleaner and more refined look in my opinion, which I think may be more suitable for my gf since her ring size is small. So right now we're thinking of whether to go with a diamond that we like more, or a setting that we like more.
I'd love to get a Graff ring that's within those specs that you guys recommended, but they don't have much inventory so I think that's impossible. It was hard enough for them to find #4 that they had to go through the loose diamonds and made it into a ring just to show it to us.
What do you guys think? Please advice!
Thank you all so much as well.

Especially when prepared to spend $80,000 or more, I think it would be a shame to settle, i.e., end up with a ring which doesn't delight you in both respects. Since a setting of classic design is her desire, would you two now consider the possibility of a ring that is not from Graff, Harry Winston, or such other "maison"?

I would consider it myself. My gf, not so much. At the same time, we're both worried about getting ripped off / scammed simply because we don't know how to really tell a good diamond + we don't know who's reliable / trustworthy.

 

[quaddio]

Re: Help needed to choose between these 2+carat round diamon

I would consider it myself. My gf, not so much. At the same time, we're both worried about getting ripped off / scammed simply because we don't know how to really tell a good diamond + we don't know who's reliable / trustworthy.

I would be worried about the 'ripped off' feeling from buying from brands that mark up so steeply because of their premium image rather than the quality of product. Have you considered ordering from a pricescope vendor with return policy and taking the stone into one of the stores for comparison?