Advice on this stone.. I think I've found it...

[CassiusNZ]

Got it.. how does this look -

HCA - 0.9

DIAMOND DETAILS
SHAPEROUND
WEIGHT 1.51ct
GRADING LAB GIA
CUT SCORE100.0
CUT QUALITY EXCELLENT
CLARITY VS1
COLOR G
FLUORESCENCE FAINT
POLISHEXCELLENT
SYMMETRYEXCELLENT
CERTIFICATEGIA-6167719215
SIZE7.35 x 7.33 x 4.56 mm
RATIO1.00273
DEPTH 62.0%
PAVILION DEPTH 43.0%
TABLE 56.0%
GIRDLEMEDIUM TO SLIGHTLY THICK
CROWN HEIGHT 15.5%
CROWN ANGLE 35.0°
PAVILION ANGLE 40.6°
SHIPPING TIME3-5 BUSINESS DAYS

Cut looks good.. hearts and arrows look well defined.. and its a great price too.. any red flags on this one?

 

[JulieN]

Pics? Price?

 

[CassiusNZ]

Im hesistant to post link as i dont want someone else to snap this up.. but hearts and arrows are well formed. Price is $12,500 so $13,900 incl. platinum hand made setting..

 

[CassiusNZ]

Well its bought.. is also AGS0 Ideal which will come with the Diamond... looking forward to getting it!

 

[JulieN]

The vendor is giving you both reports?

 

[CassiusNZ]

No sorry I got it wrong.. its GIA XXX stone.. but has been calculated to achieve AGS0 Light Performance. I think regardless for the price its a great stone and the gf will be very very happy! In the end I just couldnt bring myself to the $17k diamond and $2k setting being asked for by WF, CBI and GOG.

ED has a 30day full refund policy so worst case scenario I return it.. but I think from what I've learnt on here it'll be a winner!

Will post photos when I get.. thanks all!! Oh and d/w I'll be using that time wisely to compare it to HOF in the ports i visit to ensure the light return promised by the vendor!

 

[JulieN]

No sorry I got it wrong.. its GIA XXX stone.. but has been calculated to achieve AGS0 Light Performance.

I'm sure its a fine stone, but how did they communicate that they "calculated" AGS 0 performance?

Oh, and since you bought it, now post the link.

 

[CassiusNZ]

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R151-RXME47

Here it is... uh... hope its okay. To me the additional $4k to go from 'ideal' to 'Superideal' in a CBI or WF ACA didnt make sense.. for me.

let me know! standing bye!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It has a little leakage (probably not noticeable), but I think you are right that you really have to balance all the factors including budget. G VS1 is actually my favorite and what I used to have in a round brilliant. I hope you will come back with pictures for us!

I will say this again, though, I hope you plan to keep this diamond for a pendant if you ever decide to get her a larger ring stone, since they don't really have a good upgrade policy.

 

[CassiusNZ]

Yeh there upgrade policy is to spend as much as i spent the first time again. Which to be honest isnt too bad.. as if I do upgrade itll be from 1.5ct to 2.3-2.5ct.. which in a G/VS is around the $25k+ mark anyway.. so I will be spending that amount anyway... know what I mean?

Joshua on the online chat was great as well.. if the stone lives up to what he said.. ill look at getting a 5x stone band 1.25ct TW for the gf and a 1ct mens tension set ring for me as well

Yay

 

[CassiusNZ]

And yes I saw that light leakage... but at a 0.9HCA, GIA XXX and G/VS1 combination.. for the price.. it really should measure up well. At $13,900 for both setting and diamond.. the $6k saved will go nicely towards our house and im SURE she'll be floored by it!!! 4.25finger yeh!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I absolutely think it will be plenty big on her! I think a 2.5 ct might be overdoing it especially where you live! She may be perfectly happy with this one forever!

One more bit of advice. A 5 stone wedding band at 1.25 cts is best as a stand-alone ring. Please don't get a band with more than 10 pointers or it will overwhelm that diamond and make it look small. Plus the height of the stones will rub against the e-ring prongs and cut into them. I actually prefer smaller than 10 points each, but I did used to have a 7 stone band with 10 pointers. Picture so you can see. (The diamond ring was 7.6mm, so a little larger than the one you bought.)

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

To me the additional $4k to go from 'ideal' to 'Superideal' in a CBI or WF ACA didnt make sense.. for me.

let me know! standing bye!

Since you asked, I have a few thoughts.

**edited by moderator, please remember our trade policies**

Understand that only the magnified image is real. The rest are simulated. Same for arrows and ASET. Other than the magnified image there are no actual performance photos and no ideal-scope simulation.

**edited by moderator, please remember our trade policies**

 

[diamondseeker2006]

He just decided he would be happy with a GIA triple X because of the huge price difference in an AGS superideal cut. I don't think it would make it into the inventory of the superideal cut vendors, either. It falls in that AGS 0 range on the HCA and that is probably why they are saying that.

 

[CassiusNZ]

DiamondHawk - I did see that. Well when I get it I'll check it out myself in person for a week and decide if the cut really is off that much. I agree that it wouldnt qualify for Superideal... but really how much visual difference is there between that GIA XXX and a CBI/WF ACA stone? do you really think it'd be 30% MORE sparkly? or look 30% BIGGER? also for 4k more I was looking at a H/VS2... this is a G/VS1... GIA graded colors as well so they should be the same grading.

The other option was to drop to around a 1.3ct G/VS2 in CBI or WF ACA.. but I did want the 1.5ct.

 

[JulieN]

How did they tell you they calculated the predicted AGS light performance grade?

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

AGS Cut Grade was provided by the polisher to us.

Here is a screen shot

 

[JulieN]

Thank you.

 

[cflutist]

DiamondHawk - I did see that. Well when I get it I'll check it out myself in person for a week and decide if the cut really is off that much. I agree that it wouldnt qualify for Superideal... but really how much visual difference is there between that GIA XXX and a CBI/WF ACA stone? do you really think it'd be 30% MORE sparkly? or look 30% BIGGER? also for 4k more I was looking at a H/VS2... this is a G/VS1... GIA graded colors as well so they should be the same grading.

The other option was to drop to around a 1.3ct G/VS2 in CBI or WF ACA.. but I did want the 1.5ct.

I do understand that all on PS can spend in the manner they choose so it is your choice.

But I think I read that you have Rolex and Patek Philippe watches? I am curious as to why you own them when a Citizen Eco Drive at a fraction of the cost would keep just as accurate time? (If anything my all-18K Rolex runs fast.) If you are like me (and Dancing Fire) you probably own them because they represent excellence in craftsmanship. They cost more because of the time and special skill needed to produce them, but also the fine finishing on them.

Well, it is the same way with diamonds. CBI and WF ACA diamonds cost more because of the excellence in craftsmanship to produce all of those precise facets, their angles in relationship to each other, and the polishing/finishing. My CBI diamond has lots of dispersion (fire), brilliance (the return of white light) and very precise scintillation (that is the sparkly part). I don't know if I could quantify it at exactly 30%, but CBI diamonds perform well in all lighting conditions. You may have seen many dispersion aka "fire" pictures taken out in bright sunlight (there is an entire PS thread on it), but have you seen it in a darkened theater? Here are two pictures that my hubby took in a darkened theater on a cruise ship, sorry if they are a little blurry, we were at the front of the ship where there is more motion.





I must admit that I am a little surprised that for someone like yourself who appreciates fine craftsmanship in watches, that you did not want to buy that same excellent craftsmanship in a diamond for your wife to be.

 

[JoshuaNiamehr]

I bet if you were to quantify it with a device like a Sarine Light, the difference would be less than 1% different... And that if you did a blind test, no one would ever be able to tell the difference between them in regards to make

Its not just a price difference its also a size, color and clarity difference. Size and color along with a superb make on the other hand... That is something a consumer could recognize, and most importantly VALUE.

**edited by moderator**

 

[teobdl]

I bet if you were to quantify it with a device like a Sarine Light, the difference would be less than 1% different... And that if you did a blind test, no one would ever be able to tell the difference between them in regards to make

Its not just a price difference its also a size, color and clarity difference. Size and color along with a superb make on the other hand... That is something a consumer could recognize, and most importantly VALUE.

**edited by moderator**

This.

But you forgot to drop the mic.

 

[CassiusNZ]

Thank you all for your feedback. Bottom line is I'll be judging this with my own eyes against HOF here in Texas and if it doesnt live up to my expectations (and what Joshua has assured me) than I'll return it and go back down the route of CBI or WF ACA.

Will advise in 2weeks.

Thanks,

Cass

 

[CassiusNZ]

Oh and the reason I own Rolex and Patek is because yes I appreciate the craftsmanship but there also a store of value. Rolex or Patek bought at discount will only lose potentially about 10% max if ever needed to flip for cash... if lose anything. I actually also own Tag and Breitling... and the GF has Cartier, HUBLOT, Raymond Weil and Fendi... but hers are hers to keep.

She does want a Blue Dial Diamond Bezel Rolex though... maybe I'll use the money I saved on the diamond to buy her that... that'd be fair wouldnt it

 

[kb1gra]

This is my own personal opinion, but I buy pieces because I like them, not for their potential resale value. No luxury item is an investment, generally.

I think this is probably a nice diamond, but I can appreciate the point made above. However, it's not about the money. If you like what you're looking at, great. I have seen a few CZs that, in their clean showroom state, immediately appealed to me more than my diamond. But my diamond is mine, so it's still better. All relative.

 

[teobdl]

The craftsmanship argument for super ideals is valid.

The "store of value" argument is not valid for the brands you listed. Only designer brands (Tiffany, Cartier, HW, Graff, etc.) will retain liquid value, and most will agree that you far overpay at the outset. All other diamond vendors (including CBI, BG, WF) only have strong trade-up value at the place you bought it and among a very, very small group of PSers. The poor liquid value is especially evident by the amount of time that even the most respected PSers have listed their super ideals on re-seller sites without success.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

AGS Cut Grade was provided by the polisher to us.

Here is a screen shot

Thanks for the clarification. As hypothesized, this makes 0 with some logical deductions for those painted/dug areas.
 

One note to your polishers. This isn’t an “AGS Cut Grade.” That software calculates performance parameters but the user manually enters his or her polish & symmetry estimates. In this case 0-0 was probably punched in (we do it too since the goal is to check light-performance). No big deal, but technically those finish evaluations remain subjective and AGS uses different terms and standards. So while the scan shows 0 light performance the polishers should not promote it as an  “AGS Cut Grade” unless it went to AGSL.

 

[cflutist]

The craftsmanship argument for super ideals is valid.

The "store of value" argument is not valid for the brands you listed. Only designer brands (Tiffany, Cartier, HW, Graff, etc.) will retain liquid value, and most will agree that you far overpay at the outset. All other diamond vendors (including CBI, BG, WF) only have strong trade-up value at the place you bought it and among a very, very small group of PSers. The poor liquid value is especially evident by the amount of time that even the most respected PSers have listed their super ideals on re-seller sites without success.

This is incorrect for CBI Diamonds.
According to the HPD website CBI diamonds have a 80% lifetime Cash Buy-Back. It’s one of the best if not the best store of value in the diamond business. By the way, I don’t mean 100% trade-up which is also offered. I am talking Cash Buy-Back.

 

[Ella]

There are a number of trade members in this thread treading very close to our line. Please remember this is a consumer forum and trade members may not critique the stones of others. If you want to talk about light return hypothetically, that is fine, but it's not the place to get involved in a consumer's thread on a stone they are choosing as there is a conflict of interest. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Diamoneecee]

As I posted in response to another thread value is subjective and determined by the user. I have two college age daughters, one is straight A student, researcher and wants to be a Dr. She attends an Ivy League school for 60,000 a year and totally always thought it was worth it. My other daughter attends the local California Community College is an art major, wants to be a graphic novelist and sees no value beyond a bachelors level education. Tution at her school is about $60 a credit. Both have made valid choices for them and I support them both in their decisions.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

There are a number of trade members in this thread treading very close to our line. Please remember this is a consumer forum and trade members may not critique the stones of others. If you want to talk about light return hypothetically, that is fine, but it's not the place to get involved in a consumer's thread on a stone they are choosing as there is a conflict of interest. Thank you for your cooperation.

**edited by moderator for inappropriate comments**

Joshua, you know, I am trying to give your company the benefit of the doubt. I am considering getting larger stud earrings, and I have seen a diamond on your site I am interested in. But seeing a post like this disturbs me. I helped Cass initially when he was looking at ED. Then he switched gears and was looking at WF, CBI, and GOG. I helped him look at stones there, too. Then he switched back to ED and had basically bought a stone before I saw the latest post. I would have been glad to help him find one there in the end.

No one on this thread is a troll or paid by a jeweler (Brian is identified as a vendor). Those of us who have been here a long time love jewelry and this is our hobby. I do have favorite vendors and have bought from a few. I appreciate quality. I have also had a top of the line Hearts and Arrows stone and a fine GIA ex diamond that was not a true H&A. I am 100% sure no one could tell the difference when I switched stones because no one ever noticed or said a word! So I am open to finding diamonds that are not in the top 1%. Anyway, you will make more friends here by being very positive and not criticizing members here who are just trying to help. As Ella already pointed out, vendors are not supposed to critique stones of other vendors, of course.