GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourless

[Zizzy]

Hello there,

I found Mara's wonderful thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-stones-in-platinum.24731/ invaluable in determining my colour tolerance and I vowed that if/when I got my own J, I would post pictures to help other lurkers. Unfortunately that thread is locked so I am posting them here. I hope that's okay! These aren't beauty shots, I took them for comparative purposes only and I have tried to pick photos that show a difference and where my diamond looks relatively dark. I have some other good comparison photos I can share if anyone is interested but I think I can only post three at a time.

A GIA grading course graduate jeweller/dealer with no financial motive for kissing my derriere looked at this diamond in the setting in daylight and in her shop lights, with and without a loupe and she correctly guessed the VS2 clarity but guessed the colour to be F "or possibly G" so I think that in the setting it faces up very white. I really struggle to see much creaminess in it, not that I would mind it. The cut is GIA excellent.

The diamond is in the ring with the plain shank, the CZ is in a pave shank. Both are a touch over 2 carats.
The first picture shows the rings under direct LED kitchen spot lighting
The second is in diffuse daylight from behind
The third in strong direct daylight

The diamond looks darkest in our car in daylight. I think because the interior is black and dark grey. I swear that diamond shrinks to half its size in that damn car! In all other lighting conditions it looks fantastic - in my massively biassed opinion.

 

[elle_chris]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

First pic the color difference is obvious.

But the truth of it is, you can't tell color from most pics. And to say that a J and D can look the same is not true. Sure, there will be some lighting situations where you can't tell. You also generally can't tell upon casual observation unless the setting is made up of pave or colorless diamonds.

But most of time, and most people, will be able to see if they take a few seconds looking.

I can easily tell the difference between my .70ct I color earrings, and my 2.52 G colored e-ring. Not upon a quick casual glance, but side by side it only takes a few seconds to see. Between my K and G the color is very obvious. Funny thing too because my appraiser thought GIA was too hard on my K (he thought it was closer to J).

While I know that color is graded face down, if the jeweler couldn't see the color difference between a colorless CZ and a J, she needs to re-think her profession. The grades are far enough apart that a jeweler should definitely be able to see it.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but frankly, I'm getting tired of people comparing a lower colored diamond to a higher one and say they look the same. If that were the case, those of us that prefer a higher color would all be wearing J's to save a few bucks. Hell, I know I would.

 

[heididdl]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Are you stressed over it. As you never have to prove anything to this community. The stone is just beautiful. That being said I do kinda of understand. I have EGL F- and G studs and when I showed them to my local jeweler he shouted out rudly those are J I can see color.

First of all it is his sour grapes that I didnt buy them from him. I love my F/ G which are really J/K studs and they face up white to me and its nobodies business but mine.

J is a fine color to have in a stone that large. If you enjoy the color wear it in good health

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

No,no! I'm not stressed at all! As I said in my post, the reason for posting was to help people who, like I was 3 months ago, are deciding whether they are colour sensitive and whether to go for a J or stick to colourless grades. I am not colour sensitive and found I liked most of the Js I've seen on here and the very few I've seen IRL.

Elle_Chris - steady on there - you haven't read my post. Nowhere do I assert that you can't see a difference between my J and a D equivalent CZ; on the contrary I state that I have picked photos that show the most difference and in which my stone looks darker!

Likewise, nowhere do I claim a jeweller couldn't see the difference between my J and a D. I relay the fact that a GIA grading course graduate jeweller guessed the colour to be F or possibly G when viewing it in the setting under the shop lights and in daylight.

I have lots of photos where my stone looks much whiter than these photos but that wasn't the purpose of this thread as I assumed people considering purchasing a J want to evaluate the difference and whether it would bother them.

Phew! This was intended as a helpful post, not an attack on the supremacy of other people's Ds!

 

[elle_chris]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Zizzy- I apologize at my defensiveness. Just feels like over the years the motto has become bigger stone, lower color/clarity. Nothing
wrong with this if that's what someone prefers. But based on my own experience, the best thing anyone can do is to go out and look at the difference in colors for themselves.

I bought a K based on a PS thread. While it's a beautiful stone, it's not a white stone. In the setting, no one's going to guess it's a K unless they compare. But I know, and I know it does not look like my G.

I've also learned over the years that I prefer colorless or near colorless diamonds.
So when threads comparing them come up, it always feels as if the OP is posting to show that the differences are very slight.

Reading back your thread, it still seems that way to me. I'm not sure where I misread anything?

Your first post says that a jeweler guessed the color to be an F or G. Your second post says you never claimed they can't tell the difference between a D and J. Well yeah, if they thought a J was an F or G, they can't.

Everything in your initial post compares the two colors and implies there's no real difference, everything. There's nothing that I misread.

Threads like this are just misleading and unfair.

Oh, and personally, I don't believe any diamond color is superior over another. I absolutely believe some prefer lower colors, others higher, and yet others just want the biggest bang for their buck. There are no wrong choices. So no one's defending "the supremacy of other people's D's". At least I'm not.

 

[tyty333]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Beautiful stone...Congratulations!

 

[kenny]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Lovely stones!

Thanks for the thread and I understand the good intentions ... but you can't judge diamond color from pics.
Almost nobody sets their camera's white balance to match the light used.
Even when they do the 'match' is often noticeably off.
Often a camera will have only one setting for full sun ... but the color of that light is different when the sun is low in the sky.

Look, in pics you can't even trust the color accuracy of the exact same flower ...
When correctly white balanced the flower will look its true color in just about any light.

 

[msop04]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

No,no! I'm not stressed at all! As I said in my post, the reason for posting was to help people who, like I was 3 months ago, are deciding whether they are colour sensitive and whether to go for a J or stick to colourless grades. I am not colour sensitive and found I liked most of the Js I've seen on here and the very few I've seen IRL.

Elle_Chris - steady on there - you haven't read my post. Nowhere do I assert that you can't see a difference between my J and a D equivalent CZ; on the contrary I state that I have picked photos that show the most difference and in which my stone looks darker!

Likewise, nowhere do I claim a jeweller couldn't see the difference between my J and a D. I relay the fact that a GIA grading course graduate jeweller guessed the colour to be F or possibly G when viewing it in the setting under the shop lights and in daylight.

I have lots of photos where my stone looks much whiter than these photos but that wasn't the purpose of this thread as I assumed people considering purchasing a J want to evaluate the difference and whether it would bother them.

Phew! This was intended as a helpful post, not an attack on the supremacy of other people's Ds!

Thanks for posting, Zizzy As you mentioned, there are always members asking for photos to compare colorless stones with the lower colors and also against white metal -- so, I mean, you just gave them what they asked for, right?? It's hard to get an accurate color on a screen, but something is always better than nothing! I couldn't find anything in your post that says the colors looks the same... on the contrary, you note the differences. Whatev, don't worry -- doesn't matter -- I get ya!

Like you, I'm not quite as color sensitive in that I can see the difference -- I just don't mind it. In MRB's, I actually prefer a G to a D... HERESY, I know!! I rock a big 'ole J, too, and I've had people ask if it was "a D" -- to which I laugh, because they're so clueless... but at least they thought it looked white-er, right?? <hehehe> Bless them.

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Thanks msop04!

Kenny: you are undoubtedly right about the white balance etc. but at least by photographing the colourless CZ next to my J they are being compared in the same light however flawed the camera, - and I have taken care to describe the light. Not perfect, but better than simply posting the most flattering and/or white photos of my J.

These pictures I've taken today are the best I think, as I've managed to get both stones on the same angle and adjacent.
The first picture is the best I have for showing colour difference and is one of the few times I can see buttery tones in my J.

Obviously all these photos are very unflattering to the J which would never normally be seen right next to a colourless CZ, - I appreciate that comparison alongside a 2 carat AGS Ideal D would be even more unflattering but regrettably I don't have access to one of those! Personally I've discovered that even when I can perceive the colour difference, it doesn't diminish my liking for the stone. Were it not for seeing all the Js posted here on Pricescope, I wouldn't have considered going below a G colour and as a consequence I would have had to sacrifice on carat (as I won't sacrifice on cut). For me, that would have been a needless sacrifice as it turns out I'm not colour sensitive. Now other people seeing these photos will decide the other way - and that they would sacrifice carat for a higher colour than J because they are sensitive to the tint and they don't like it. Either way, it's all about ensuring we spend our (or our OH's) hard earned cash on things that matter to us, and not on things we think will matter to us because we haven't actually seen them.

I live in the UK and prior to Pricescope and my diamond hunt, I had seen very few graded diamonds at all and I was far more aware of clarity and colour as being key to quality than cut. Before Pricescope I thought I wanted a D-F VVS stone; after encountering Mara's topic and a few other on Js, I ended up considering stones down to J Colour SI1 eye-clean but with an excellent or ideal cut. My engagement ring diamond is J VS2. I am very grateful to Pricescope for helping me end up with a diamond that I really love and that is much more beautiful than I ever thought our budget would afford.

Posting these photos is about giving other people more images to help them make up their own minds whether they would consider a J or not, not about saying that a J is the best. I agree with Elle_Chris, msop04 and Kenny that it is difficult to capture colour in photos so if anyone is thinking about going for a lower colour, it really is a good idea to try and see them in real life. It's not always easy though, particularly in the UK where many jewellers (e.g. Boodles) don't even stock colours lower than G.

I'm back at De Beers on Bond Street on Saturday to buy our wedding bands so I'll have a look at their D and E colour solitaires and see if I can take a picture.

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Now if my intention had been to minimise/misrepresent the colour difference this is the photo I would have posted!

 

[msop04]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Meant to compliment your beautiful ring, OP!!

<threadjack coming up>

Would you mind giving us specs, finger size, and HANDSHOTS??

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Aw thank you msop04!

I despair of handshots as I have veiny, wrinkly little mitts. I've started using a vignette setting to try and focus on the ring and not my hands

The diamond is a De Beers 2.02 VS2 J GIA triple ex set in a De Beers classic platinum solitaire.

 

[JulieN]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Wow, looks great!

 

[msop04]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Just beautiful, Zizzy!!! So classy!

 

[apacherose]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Honestly- just beautiful!

Zizzy you are rocking a stunning ring- gorgeous.

I find threads comparing colors to be helpful, even though it is not like real life viewing. The photos that show the color difference the most are the most helpful.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Sorry if I sound harsh, but frankly, I'm getting tired of people comparing a lower colored diamond to a higher one and say they look the same. If that were the case, those of us that prefer a higher color would all be wearing J's to save a few bucks. Hell, I know I would.

Yup!..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Aw thank you msop04!

I despair of handshots as I have veiny, wrinkly little mitts. I've started using a vignette setting to try and focus on the ring and not my hands

The diamond is a De Beers 2.02 VS2 J GIA triple ex set in a De Beers classic platinum solitaire.

Beautiful ring Zizzy!..

 

[adele_h]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

I found it useful! Thank you for posting

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Apacheriose and Adele h, you may already have seen them, but in case you haven't, Good Old Gold have some great videos about colour on YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3vI3Tkd3VQU

msop04 - I forgot to give you my ring size - 3.5

elle_chris, I haven't got the impression that Pricescope is full of posts saying there is no real difference between Ds and Js, Pricescope seems a pretty broad church but the reason people are probably moved to post on this topic is that the world beyond Pricescope is so skewed the other way (perhaps not so much in the USA, I couldn't comment). Uninformed consumers like me have no idea that an excellent or ideal cut J can face up white - not D white - but white as opposed to yellowy or whatever. When I google images diamond colour, the results are dominated by pictures of a row of MRBs face down or in profile against a white background, the tint in the J is much more noticeable in these images than a well cut J can face up. To quote Good Old Gold
"A J color does face up white when they have ideal optics however when you tilt a J to it's side or at a 45 degree angle you can make out the nuance of color. There are many who are fine with this and there are some who aren't as it's not a blatant white versus yellow comparison "
Had I not seen the images of Js here on Pricescope and then on GOG's videos, I would have assumed the difference to be much greater than it is (I'm only talking about stones with an excellent cut).It may be obvious to you and bug you but I fall into the category of people who aren't colour sensitive and are fine with it. This was a very, very helpful revelation to me because as Dancing Fire observes, the difference between a J and a D, all else being equal, can be thousands of dollars and I was able to consider my dream carat size of between 2 and 3 carats which would probably have been out of reach with my budget with a higher colour stone.
I agree it is best to see stones in person, but without seeing posts like Mara's etc. it wouldn't have occurred to me to consider J colour diamonds, and in the UK at least, nobody was about to show me a J colour excellent/ideal cut unsolicited.

 

[missy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Your ring is gorgeous Zizzy. LOVE it!

 

[elle_chris]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Zizzy- First, there's no doubt you have a beautiful ring- the stone is extremely well cut, that's obvious.

But I think we disagree about color and face up.
Maybe it is about how sensitive some of us are, but I don't think a J faces up like a colorless stone. I mean it does when the diamonds on, like when the lighting is right and the diamond's showing fire/brilliance, but you can't really see body color at all then.
It's when the diamond's at "rest" that you can see the color, and I think that's something that rarely gets mentioned here. Diamonds don't perform all the time, it's all about the lighting.
Even a well cut diamond will show it's color.

Like you, when I was looking for a stone (a pendant though) I found the threads here helpful. In fact, there was a thread on a gorgeous K that convinced me it's white enough. So I bought my K from GOG. It's stunning, it's featured in a few of their older videos. There's no doubt this is an extremely well cut diamond. But, it's just not white.

Had I actually gone out and looked at colors, compared well cut K's to higher colors, I would of gone for an H that GOG had instead. It would of been a little smaller, but to me worth it.

So all I'm doing is presenting the other side. The side that doesn't always think bigger is better or a lower color is white enough. There are those of us who learned ( a little too late) that they can see the difference clearly, and if being presented with the same opportunity today, would have gone a different route.

I guess if I were to do a comparison between a D and a J, it would have looked, and read very different than yours.

It's really nothing personal..lol..

 

[pyramid]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

There is always mention of a J not looking yellow, I notice most J's look towards grey that I have seen, remember yellow, brown, grey, green are all hues of diamond color, they are not all cut from rough with a yellow hue, but the L's I have seen tend to be from the yellower rough. Most J's I have seen have tended to have grey, I also saw a brown one time. I agree it is the resting color. To me I don't really see color immediately but more that anything starting at H to me starts to look darker. I was trying to find a reply I had read on here a long time ago which the late Rockdoc had written but can't, it was worded well, but basically said, color is not graded face up, so why do people on pricescope try to judge it that way.

Color is a rarity factor too which is why colorless diamonds are so much more expensive and especially when they are balanced with higher clarities. This is how diamonds were judged on this board at one time, for instance a J VVS2 was not balanced and so you would have difficulty selling it again as was said of a D SI2, no one mentions that now because people seem to be more interested in size or they do here anyway, rather than getting a 'precious' diamond, so if everyone thinks like this now then those unbalanced clarity and color diamonds probably would sell. The same with second hand diamonds, people are all going for the old cut diamonds by choice and their prices have risen whereas before people wanted a new stone, the term pre-loved has replaced the former one. Like fine china and ornaments are out of vogue I wonder if diamonds are now too, I know they are seen all over the hollywood crowd and in antique styles but is this just a fashion, I don't know but it seems to have a different root to the old way of thinking about diamonds. I notice that in the past lots of people wore diamond rings/fancier jewellery e.g. clusters and gemstones etc but now people wear more metal designs and even in stainless steel and other grey metals etc.

 

[Zizzy]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

That's really interesting Pyramid, and it's the first time I recall reading that observation. We've already established that I'm not colour sensitive and I'm definitively inexperienced when it comes to looking at diamonds, but for what it's worth, your observations strike a chord with me. On the rare occasions when my diamond looks relatively dull, - I assume what you and elle_chris refer to as "resting", such as in my black/grey car interior, then I think the tone is more grey than yellow, brown or green which I realise isn't desirable. Fortunately it doesn't rest very often!
I can see myself watching a few more GOG videos! I'm sure I spied one on body colour.

 

[pyramid]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Another thing I find interesting is that it was mentioned on here and don't know if it was a new discovery in eyesight or not. Japanese people and other asian people tend to go for smaller high color and high clarity diamonds, lots of them on here in the past have got like a 40 point or half carat in D Internall flawless or E VVS1. There was a mention here of an article and that these people have more cones in the eyes so are more able to see color that westerners don't. I know nothing about eyesight and so not even sure what cones are, so don't know if in western people do we all have the same number of cones or do we differ this could also mean if true that some people see differently than others, which we would do anyway due to differing eyesight and perception of color even. They also go for high clarity in relation to how pure their relationship is seen, whereas I like high clarity but tend to think all relationships have ups and downs. They have a bad luck thing relating to inclusions and I believe a culet is seen as a place where the luck runs out so they want pointed culet only.

I notice Zizzy you said too that your diamond is never resting, this is maybe the difference too because when I look at my diamond for color I tend to look at it when it is not shining bright but in the house on a winter afternoon say, I am basically looking to see how colorless the stone looks to me, not looking to see how bright and shiny it is, I also like the rarity factor and this means as much to me as how beautiful it looks, with other things too as much as diamonds, so maybe just different personalities come into play as well. I will even turn the ring upside down in my fingers, not wearing the ring, to see the colorless look I like, sort of like an ice cube although I believe only the Golconda diamonds (which some hollywood people have) and are type II diamonds have the real colorless diamond material. I am interested in this too, so maybe it is just an interest in rarity. Sort of like some people buy more expensive clothes and others buy cheap because they want to change them often - meaning people with same sort of income with different ideas. Most people by far can't have a D color, flawless 5 carat, so it doesn't really mean anything anyway as we are all on the scale somewhere buying what we can get, and either want larger carat weight or more colorless, top clarity and top cut. I also see it like the other posters that if it is all the same then why should the D color VVS1 cost so much more than a lower color and lower clarity diamond. Well it doesn't because people who do the grading have established this as a guide. Heck it was even said at one time that maybe lower colors were rarer, don't know if that was true though.

Regarding the rare thing, I am also interested in antiques and love hearing about antique furniture but would not buy it even if I could afford it as I like more modern in my house, so I don't know just how all our tastes really work.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Interesting thread Zizzy!

A few things come to mind when talking about color, and how people perceive it.
In the diamond industry, people can be trained to do many different tasks- but there's certain aspects- color in particular, that a small percentage of all people can see far better than most. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons- physiological, mental, who knows. But some people are color blind and some are extremely sensitive to color.
It's a sliding scale- but to effectively grade color in a practical manner ( en masse, without using masters), one must have a more than average sensitivity to color.
Most of us are somewhere in the middle.
But this aspect effectively makes the same J color diamond look yellow to some people, and not yellow to others.
Even then, if one can see the color it's a matter of taste.

As far as the GIA courses, and how it relates to this discussion
There's no test to gain entrance to GIA classes- and master stones are used in color grading there so people with less color sensitivity can still graduate.

She was just dazzled by your gorgeous rock

 

[pyramid]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

The more I think about it, I think that Colorless above G is a rarity thing and is more than how sparkly and beautiful a diamond is, maybe not more but a different category really. High clarity is too, perhaps a rarity thing and also a mind clean thing as is written lots of times. It is like the purity thing that the Japanese believe in. In other words not mainstream. If I didn't like rarity I would no way pay for it. I like G color too so that is a fairly high color but I am not interested in say M or below, those who are maybe have a different version of the rarity thing going on, maybe not rarity but they are more interested in antique look than the rest of us. Just happens to cost less money fortunately for them. I mean lots of things in life that are highly needed and wanted do not cost lots of money, money is a value humans have put on things. I know also some go for lower color for more carat weight so that is another taste, maybe they want to stand out more or something, or just want to have a larger stone on their finger, nothing to do with being valued as having more money and riches, just more stone to see and easier to see the facets. Think it is all our prejudices working overtime here even if we don't know it when we judge what other like and why, because we really don't know what their reasons are. Somethings that are important to some are not to others because they have other things which are.

 

[pyramid]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Oh forgot to say, that whilst looking for that old post from Rockdoc, I found another where he was saying that people who grade color need to have their eyes tested for this every few years and he was surprised how many who were doing this as their job and charging people for it had not had that test done in many years. That is something to take into account to if a jeweller says a color is such and such. I would think GIA and AGS graders must have this test done periodically as part of their job requirements. He also said that accurate grading could not be done whilst a stone was set and as David said above that having accurate master stones were a must for grading, also found a post where some of the experts said grading was done in a northern light at around 12 noon and graders at gia only work for so long then they cannot grade color the rest of that day but do other tasks. 'Remember reading that lapidarists of old maybe present too when cutting gemstones used to look at a green emerald as it rested their eyes, same way that grass is seen as a restful color.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Hi Pyramid,
About rarity, and how it affects price:
It's really only one aspect of why a D costs so much more than an M.
In fact, there's probably more AGS0 D color 3 carat diamonds, as compared to M colored AGS0

So it's not only rarity that drives the price.
Lucky people that love lower colors for their own intrinsic beauty.
And aside from older cuts, really nice ones can also be very rare.

 

[Michelez]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

I sold an E colored, vs1 modified cushion because it bored me. Give me an antique, wonky cut, lower color any day of the week. To each his own.

 

[pyramid]

Re: GIA J colour diamond in platinum comparison with colourl

Hi Rockdiamond

Yes I realise that carat, clarity and cut do too. I also read somewhere that rarity can vary in each grade so two identical diamonds by grade names could still be different regarding transparency etc. Would the test Rockdoc was speaking about just be a normal eyesight test then, if there is no color testing done for students coming into train at GIA or is it a color test that graders/appraisers do separately. Just wondering out of interest. Also think I wrote about them grading color in a northern light but seem to remember a post not too long ago where I think Dave Atlas wrote about lots of changes at GIA and that most was done now in rooms with special lighting and some were even graded by computers and then checked by people.

I have not seen enough old cut lower color diamonds to really make a right decision on what I like just that I think I like whiter look. I realise more now after thinking about this for a while and posting in the past that I was really wrong about lower color and thinking of them like dirty snow or dirty dish washing water as there are all different tastes and it was just an association I myself was making with them and not what other people see at all. It is just taste, I love a yellow fancy color diamond but not the fancy intense as I see them as more orange or darker, yet this is going from computer screen as I have only seen one in real life which I thought looked too dark and I would have wanted a brighter or lighter yellow. I know fancy intense is the most expensive so probably rarer but prefer the other. It maybe depends too on skin color as well as taste as to how the colors look on the hand. I love pink diamonds and this is down to rarity as well as the look I like so everything is just all mashed up and I don't think we can say any one thing is better than another just that we individually perceive it as better but that the trade have a standard across the board which is seen by most as better so more money can be made from it.