1985 vs2015 gemstone portfolio

[smitcompton]

Hi,

The winter edition of The Gemstone Forecaster is out and for interest, Robert Genis shows what a high end portfolio would be, a medium and lower cost gem portfolio would be in( or was) 1985 and a new one for the present day.. Some high end stones have changed places, and the one I was interested in was the Mandarin garnet placement. I'm not going to say anymore, but its fun to look at.

The website is www.preciousgemstones.com

Annette

 

[Marlow]

Very interesting

I miss fine spessartine in the 2015 middle and fine Luc Yen blue and lavender in the middle too.

CCG in the middle??? Rubellite ????

 

[T L]

I like this note about AGL on this page under "TEN RULES FOR GEMSTONE COLLECTING"

"Do not buy a colored stone without an American Gemological Laboratory (AGL) Colored Stone Grading Report. For beginning collectors, this is critical. This lab is considered the final arbitrator in "country of origin" and treatment issues. If you are paying the price for a Kashmir sapphire, Burma ruby, or Colombian emerald, make sure the stone is accompanied with an AGL certificate stating the country of origin."

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/GEMCOLLECTINGTWO.HTML#Ten Rules For Gem Collecting

 

[PrecisionGem]

Note that the advice of a AGL report is directed to people building a substantial portfolio, not the typical gems you see posted on this forum. He mentions a "beginning portfolio may cost you $10,000 (one or two gems). A well diversified portfolio will run between $25,000-$100,000 or higher". The advice to not place more than 10%-15% of your portfolio in gems is important too. To me that seems high too.

Most stones I sell to Pricescope members are around $250 to $600. At this price point an AGL doesn't always make much sense.

Lets look from 1985 to today with a different non gem investment.

In 1985 AAPL (Apple stock was trading for $2.89 per share. Today $113.99. So that $25,000 gem investment in 1985 could have yeilded $986,072 had you bought stock instead of gems. With gems, you are normally buying somewhere between a high wholesale and retail, and when you go to sell, are selling at wholesale or less, or paying a fee someone else to handle the sale. I doubt your $25,000 stones from 1985 would bring you a Million dollars today.

 

[T L]

Most stones I sell to Pricescope members are around $250 to $600. At this price point an AGL doesn't always make much sense.

Of course, I wouldn't suggest an AGL report on a commonly untreated gem of lower value. However, if I was sending a gem anywhere, AGL would be my first choice, especially for the gems in the high to mid end portfolios.

For diamonds, it would be GIA.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


Yes Gene, I am not advocating investing in gems. I am however interested in how he places his gems in the portfolio. I agree that 10-15 % would be too much. However you may not have bought apple either if you went the stock market approach. Plus, the market tanked, and even I lost 50,000. When it happened I was strung out until a friend told me it wasn't much. I guess her loss had a bigger sting. I have since regained my loss.

I have been watching the ruby and emerald values. I'd say they have been a good investment. As spinel has been. I also place my values in what it would cost to buy them now, just like stocks.

I have watched your prices go up, and maybe what is more interesting about your gems, is that you are going for higher end rough. This tells me there is more profit in the higher end as well/ and/or you have more affluent customers.

At the top of these lists is alexandrite, which is a stone sought after(not by me). But demantoid has been lowered. Tsavorite is in the middle of both. I would have thought it might be in the top portfolio/ Yes, I would also have thought pink sapphire would be up there.

I always find his newsletter interesting. He adds, he subtracts values, and I think he does a pretty good job.

 

[Marlow]

Note that the advice of a AGL report is directed to people building a substantial portfolio, not the typical gems you see posted on this forum. He mentions a "beginning portfolio may cost you $10,000 (one or two gems). A well diversified portfolio will run between $25,000-$100,000 or higher". The advice to not place more than 10%-15% of your portfolio in gems is important too. To me that seems high too.

Most stones I sell to Pricescope members are around $250 to $600. At this price point an AGL doesn't always make much sense.

Lets look from 1985 to today with a different non gem investment.

In 1985 AAPL (Apple stock was trading for $2.89 per share. Today $113.99. So that $25,000 gem investment in 1985 could have yeilded $986,072 had you bought stock instead of gems. With gems, you are normally buying somewhere between a high wholesale and retail, and when you go to sell, are selling at wholesale or less, or paying a fee someone else to handle the sale. I doubt your $25,000 stones from 1985 would bring you a Million dollars today.

1+ !!!

I buy and collect gems course I love them and I am a bit crazy!!! Def. no investment and selling them ( quickly if I needed money) was always frustating.
Maximum 10 % more then I have paid for them - and these stones I bought at wholesale prices. Look at Loupetroop - why are so many nice and well priced stones still available??

I remember a guy who asked really stupid questions in a gemshow - I helped a vendor course he was alone and very busy - this guy asked for gems and he was a pain in the a... - the vendor continued to talk to him and finally he bought 3 gems ( sapphire, spinel) for 6000 EUR - believe me - paying taxes would be a better deal for him... - the gems were fair priced with a good quality but investment?

 

[minousbijoux]

Great, just 11 to go and I've finished the collection according to the Gemstone Forecaster No problem, I'll just go and get right on a blue diamond.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Hi,


Yes Gene, I am not advocating investing in gems. I am however interested in how he places his gems in the portfolio. I agree that 10-15 % would be too much. However you may not have bought apple either if you went the stock market approach. Plus, the market tanked, and even I lost 50,000. When it happened I was strung out until a friend told me it wasn't much. I guess her loss had a bigger sting. I have since regained my loss.

I have been watching the ruby and emerald values. I'd say they have been a good investment. As spinel has been. I also place my values in what it would cost to buy them now, just like stocks.

I have watched your prices go up, and maybe what is more interesting about your gems, is that you are going for higher end rough. This tells me there is more profit in the higher end as well/ and/or you have more affluent customers.

At the top of these lists is alexandrite, which is a stone sought after(not by me). But demantoid has been lowered. Tsavorite is in the middle of both. I would have thought it might be in the top portfolio/ Yes, I would also have thought pink sapphire would be up there.

I always find his newsletter interesting. He adds, he subtracts values, and I think he does a pretty good job.

I subscribe to "The Guide" and have for a long time. What I don't see is the price of cut stones going up at the same rate or even places that the prices or rough are. For many stones, the cut stone price increases over the past decade have been very small, yet these same stones the cost of rough has doubled.

 

[LoversKites]

I'm surprised about demantoid being moved to the middle from the high end. Yes, there is African material and some Russian material being mined -- resulting in more availability -- but I didn't think that what's being found now is near the quality of the really super fine old Russian stuff, which always seemed to have high demand vs the nice quality ones.

I never knew chryso cat's eye was so popular. Kind of nice to see some things actually going down in price for a change.

Also, this quote is scary: "Next, efforts are on to organize the market and drive demand for colored gemstones just as DeBeers did for diamonds."

Very interesting thread, I'll read the other forecasts as well.

 

[Marlow]

1 gramm rough is 1 carat cut - some cut stones are cheaper as the same rough from the same vendor - sometimes it seems you have to pay for the "joy" of cutting!

Demantoid in the 80th: some italian tiny gems
Demantoid in 2015: Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Madagascar, Namibia and Italy. Enough - fine russian material is still rare.


Fine and large cat eye are rare - like OTLs in the Chryso topic...

 

[PrecisionGem]

1 gramm rough is 1 carat cut - some cut stones are cheaper as the same rough from the same vendor - sometimes it seems you have to pay for the "joy" of cutting!

That is the basic math! I now see guys in Africa asking $1000 per gram for stones that after cutting I know can only sell for $600 per ct. Sometimes it makes no sense.

The Chinese market has really caused the prices to go up. Last year in Tucson, there were guys from Africa buying African rough from US rough dealers, to take back to Africa and resell as rough to the Chinese buyers at higher prices.

 

[Marlow]

Same here in Munich show...

You see many "destroyed" 1-2 ct gem - extremely cheap with awful cutting but it was beautiful material.

I bought a few years ago cut afghan tourmaline - colors like yours -around 0,8-1,5 ct - 10EUR pct!! - I asked for rough material - no chance! Recutting - to small!!

A lot with seven top colored clinohumite - one Goodie and six stones again 0,7-1,50 ct - total price - no joke - 20EUR all together!!!!
As rough material - two fine custom cut piece and five nice commercial cut - 100, 150pct no problem....
Ask for rough clinohumite - no way....They are crazy!!!!

Think you will agree that we could have so many beautiful cut gems if they would sell them as rough material....

 

[LoversKites]

Demantoid in the 80th: some italian tiny gems
Demantoid in 2015: Russia, Iran, Pakistan, Madagascar, Namibia and Italy. Enough - fine russian material is still rare.

When you put it that way it does make more sense.

 

[colorluvr]

Great, just 11 to go and I've finished the collection according to the Gemstone Forecaster No problem, I'll just go and get right on a blue diamond.

Good thing my gem purchases haven't been for investment! I seem to have the wrong country of origin on my sapphires.

 

[Marlow]

Great, just 11 to go and I've finished the collection according to the Gemstone Forecaster No problem, I'll just go and get right on a blue diamond.

Good thing my gem purchases haven't been for investment! I seem to have the wrong country of origin on my sapphires.

Quality, not orign!!

 

[colorluvr]

Great, just 11 to go and I've finished the collection according to the Gemstone Forecaster No problem, I'll just go and get right on a blue diamond.

Good thing my gem purchases haven't been for investment! I seem to have the wrong country of origin on my sapphires.

Quality, not orign!!

I agree!