OEC Help! Opinions on 1.75ct OEC Hand Filigree platinum

[dm22]

Hi All,

I've been creeping and learning a ton on this site for awhile. I have been searching for an OEC diamond as an e-ring with a max budget of $7,500. With that price in mind I'm looking for advice from the OEC pros on the following ring. What is a fair price or should I just keep looking around? Also I may be able to work out a meeting at an appriser of my choice to confirm everything before buying. Here are the stats:

EGL Cert: US 66190601D
Completed in March 14, 2013
1.75ct
VS2
L-M color grad
7.8 x 7.6 x 4.66mm
Table: 56%
Depth 60.5%
Girdle: Thing to medium
Cutlet: Small
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None

Setting (Described by the seller): Set in a Edwardian-style, crown-like mounting flanked by six bead set, single cut diamonds weighing .09 ct. Set in Platinum.

And the Pictures:

 

[Gypsy]

Is this for YOU or for someone else?

And you've seen it in person and like it and the color?

EGL is no longer traded on Rapnet so telling you the pricing is going to be a it difficult. But I can try to make an educated guess. Let me see what I can do.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

 

[heididdl]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Gysey is it different if its an OEC.. I thought most older diamonds were only graded by EGL back in the day...of course I am still learning.

 

[dm22]

It is not for me. It will be for my (hopefully!) future fiancé. I have no seen the diamond yet in person but will try to set up an in person meeting at an appriser to confirm everything is in order.

 

[dm22]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Thanks Gypsy! I appreciate it. Anything specific I should be looking at with an OEC? I'm most familiar with round brilliant so I'd like to be as educated as possible.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Gysey is it different if its an OEC.. I thought most older diamonds were only graded by EGL back in the day...of course I am still learning.

Hi Heidi,
Yes, many OECs are graded by EGL. But with EGL being banned from rapnet for ALL diamonds, not just modern cuts, it does make it a little harder to guess the pricing on things.
EGL was typically 15%-20% less than GIA for EGL USA. So that's the formula I used.

EGL USA does grade for faceting of European cuts more accurately than GIA (GIA's European faceting has all kinds of hoops to jump through). Just for faceting though. Their color/clarity are still farther off from GIA than they should be.

Using GIA RB prices as a starting point for pricing comparisons for European cuts is okay since for GIA European cuts are on the same pricing scale as rounds last time I was informed. Especially if finding a comparable EGL USA lab report will take an act of god.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Thanks Gypsy! I appreciate it. Anything specific I should be looking at with an OEC? I'm most familiar with round brilliant so I'd like to be as educated as possible.

The stone looks like it has lovely faceting. Which is what matters most. But it looks VERY tinted and I don't know if that's going to be okay with the wearer. It's a personal preference thing. I like some warmth in my old cut diamonds but M is as warm as I'll go on the GIA scale. And we don't know what the color of this one is on the GIA scale or what your lady's tolerances are for warmth (unless she's told you).

If you take it to a good INDEPENDENT appraiser who feels comfortable enough to unset it, to grade the color against GIA Masters (and they will need the expanded GIA masters, which few have, not the regular which stops at N) then re-set it for you, that would be best.
Why? Color is graded face down, so to get an accurate color estimate, the stone would have to be unset.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's another comp: http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=2628&SHAPE=EU this one is a Si1 at 5,700. And this one is a VS1 and is at 6,100 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/detail.php?ID=2607&SHAPE=EU So let's say Vs2 is worth 5,900 with a 2k setting. So estimate goes up to 7,900.

BUT I know for a fact that Adam at OWD is willing to negotiate his listed pricing. So IMO, that brings us back down to 7,600.

 

[Gypsy]

FYI:
This faceting is late OEC/ transitional facteting:


And it's a VERY nice example of that, despite the poor image quality.

Did you ask what the grade setting inclusions were and whether the stone is eyeclean to your standards?

 

[TrakHack]

The price seems fair, but the color would probably be a "pass" for me. I was recently shopping for a 1.5 - 2 carat OEC and had a 1.78 EGL M stone called in, and I could see the color half way across the room. I was hoping it wouldn't bother me, but it unfortunately did.

 

[dm22]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Thanks Gypsy! I appreciate it. Anything specific I should be looking at with an OEC? I'm most familiar with round brilliant so I'd like to be as educated as possible.

The stone looks like it has lovely faceting. Which is what matters most. But it looks VERY tinted and I don't know if that's going to be okay with the wearer. It's a personal preference thing. I like some warmth in my old cut diamonds but M is as warm as I'll go on the GIA scale. And we don't know what the color of this one is on the GIA scale or what your lady's tolerances are for warmth (unless she's told you).

If you take it to a good INDEPENDENT appraiser who feels comfortable enough to unset it, to grade the color against GIA Masters (and they will need the expanded GIA masters, which few have, not the regular which stops at N) then re-set it for you, that would be best.
Why? Color is graded face down, so to get an accurate color estimate, the stone would have to be unset.

Great stuff. I'll have to check with her and see the stone in person to really know how tinted it is. As you state the big problem is finding an independent appraiser who will take the stone out and as it is in an original setting I'm unsure how fragile it is.

Are there any good sites you would recommend for OEC? Old world diamonds is a treasure trove that I had no idea existed.

 

[Gypsy]

I highly recommend calling Adam at OWD and asking him to recommend a stone and setting to you for your budget. One of my friends did that recently and ended up with a lovely ring.

Have you checked Jewels by Grace and Love Affair Diamonds?

 

[dm22]

FYI:
This faceting is late OEC/ transitional facteting:


And it's a VERY nice example of that, despite the poor image quality.

Did you ask what the grade setting inclusions were and whether the stone is eyeclean to your standards?

What do you mean by the grade setting inclusions? The diamond is a VS2 and I haven't followed up with the seller yet. Still in the preliminary phases making sure I'm not getting a bad deal

 

[dm22]

I highly recommend calling Adam at OWD and asking him to recommend a stone and setting to you for your budget. One of my friends did that recently and ended up with a lovely ring.

Have you checked Jewels by Grace and Love Affair Diamonds?

Nope. But I will now!

 

[Gypsy]

As for an appraiser. I send mine to Neil Beaty. http://www.americangemregistry.com/



He can unset and set your stone.

 

[dm22]

As for an appraiser. I send mine to Neil Beaty. http://www.americangemregistry.com/



He can unset and set your stone.

I've seen Neil's stuff on here and it is a wealth of knowledge.
Any suggestions in the New Jersey/New York area? My main concern would be convincing the seller to agree to sending their ring to someone without them being in the same room.

 

[Gypsy]

David Wolf is in the NY area. He is expensive though, from what I hear and I don't know if he can set and unset. Neil's not cheap either, mind you.

 

[Gypsy]

What did your lady tell you she wanted?

 

[dm22]

What did your lady tell you she wanted?

Speaking with her a little later. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Gypsy]

A lot of Adam's stones don't have images on line. So do make sure you call OWD and ask him to recommend some stones for you.

Make sure you ask your lady her color preference. Okay?

 

[LightBright]

The stone is not really an OEC. I believe it's a European Cut in the style most frequently called "Transitional". There is very little information about this particular cut out there. I own a diamond with a similar cut and the setting is dated 1913. I believe this particular cut was done very early, in the early Edwardian Era (teens).

What I see is an exceptionally cut, exceptionally set Edwardian ring. The setting is exquisite and unusual, and the diamond is almost certainly original to the ring. This cut and setting is very rare, IMO. I've been looking at old diamonds and settings for years, and you don't see a complete package like this often at all.

The one wild card is COLOR. The EGL cert means that color could be at least several grades off. It is likely much lower than L. IMO, the color may make this diamond much harder for a vendor to sell. Low color diamonds are an acquired taste, but not at all guaranteed.

Color affects value, but many people will pay a premium for an exquisite setting or cut so I think the valuation Gypsy did is about right ($7600), but possibly a little high due to color and depending on if this ring is being sold by one of the big vendors or a smaller scale a Ebay type vendor. I would factor a lower color grade into your pricing estimate (I'm not sure how to do this but others would). $2k sounds right for the setting...

I do not recommend taking the stone out of the setting to assess color. This particular basket with diamonds looks fragile. I would recommend seeing the ring in person and seeing what you think.

In this case, I would say if your budget aligns with the price of this ring I would seriously consider it. But your future fiancé has to be able to love a low colored diamond. If that is not in the cards I would pass on this ring.

 

[Gypsy]

I think that its best to send it to an appraiser that CAN unset it, if it's safe. To me, those prongs look fine and there are a ton of them, so I think unsetting should be okay. Also the setting is a reproduction, I think.

 

[snfsdca]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Thanks Gypsy! I appreciate it. Anything specific I should be looking at with an OEC? I'm most familiar with round brilliant so I'd like to be as educated as possible.

The stone looks like it has lovely faceting. Which is what matters most. But it looks VERY tinted and I don't know if that's going to be okay with the wearer. It's a personal preference thing. I like some warmth in my old cut diamonds but M is as warm as I'll go on the GIA scale. And we don't know what the color of this one is on the GIA scale or what your lady's tolerances are for warmth (unless she's told you).

If you take it to a good INDEPENDENT appraiser who feels comfortable enough to unset it, to grade the color against GIA Masters (and they will need the expanded GIA masters, which few have, not the regular which stops at N) then re-set it for you, that would be best.
Why? Color is graded face down, so to get an accurate color estimate, the stone would have to be unset.

Great stuff. I'll have to check with her and see the stone in person to really know how tinted it is. As you state the big problem is finding an independent appraiser who will take the stone out and as it is in an original setting I'm unsure how fragile it is.

Are there any good sites you would recommend for OEC? Old world diamonds is a treasure trove that I had no idea existed.

This may or may not have to do with how delicate the setting is, but I did notice in your original post, the vendor's description of the setting is Edwardian Style. Edwardian 'style' often indicates the piece is a reproduction rather than an original antique or vintage piece. Reproductions can be just as beautiful as an original piece, but it may be another thing you want to check with your love. Is an authentic antique setting important to her? Or does she just love antique/Edwardian style and would be equally (or perhaps more so) happy with something that looks vintage as she would with an actual vintage piece?

 

[Gypsy]

I sincerely doubt that is the original setting. It looks like a cast reproduction.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The cut on this diamond is amazing. It's an early ideal cut, or American Cut, in my opinion. That's a diamond cut in the early decades of the 1900s with Tolk proportions. Cut by hand with perfect fat arrows. It's like mine but slightly earlier I think or a different flavour. The cut looks like a twin for Demelza's diamond. Honestly, in my opinion this is a one in a million cut. I would covet it like crazy for that alone.

 

[Gypsy]

What do you mean by the grade setting inclusions? The diamond is a VS2 and I haven't followed up with the seller yet. Still in the preliminary phases making sure I'm not getting a bad deal

A) Not all VS2's are eyeclean, even if they are GIA graded.
B) This is an EGL graded diamond so their grading is problematic because it's not a match for GIA standards. All we know is that the stone is an EGL VS2. What you need to know is two fold from the outset: what would the GIA clarity grade be (estimated) and then you need to know if it is eyeclean.
C) Once you know what the GIA clarity grade is and whether the stone is eyeclean you need to know what the grade setting inclusion is. You need to know WHY it is graded a VS2 (or whatever it would be on GIA scale). Is it graded a VS2 because of a feather? A cloud? A needle? WHY does it get a VS2. That's important so you can gauge whether the clarity is going to have any impact to appearance or safety. Now in a 'true' VS2 that is graded accurately you don't have to worry about safety, because a stone with unsafe inclusions would not be a VS2. But you do need to worry, about the affect of clarity on appearance.

Regarding any seller of this ring. NEGOTIATE. Yes, the price is fair. I'd still be negotiating it down. It never hurts to ask if they can do better on the price.

 

[Tourmaline]

I think it's stunning.

 

[dm22]

Okay so.

I'm going to estimate 2K for the platinum setting.
Stone comp:
http://www.solomonbrothers.com/DiamondDetail.aspx?sku=7Y7869YY&affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope 7K for the stone, IF it was a GIA L. BUT it's not. It's an EGL L-M so I'm going to say 20% off that price for the EGL and the color so: 5,600 for the stone.

So I'd guess, retail a fair price is around 7,600.

So, yes, I think the price is fair and I don't think you are being overcharged for it.

Thanks Gypsy! I appreciate it. Anything specific I should be looking at with an OEC? I'm most familiar with round brilliant so I'd like to be as educated as possible.

The stone looks like it has lovely faceting. Which is what matters most. But it looks VERY tinted and I don't know if that's going to be okay with the wearer. It's a personal preference thing. I like some warmth in my old cut diamonds but M is as warm as I'll go on the GIA scale. And we don't know what the color of this one is on the GIA scale or what your lady's tolerances are for warmth (unless she's told you).

If you take it to a good INDEPENDENT appraiser who feels comfortable enough to unset it, to grade the color against GIA Masters (and they will need the expanded GIA masters, which few have, not the regular which stops at N) then re-set it for you, that would be best.
Why? Color is graded face down, so to get an accurate color estimate, the stone would have to be unset.

Great stuff. I'll have to check with her and see the stone in person to really know how tinted it is. As you state the big problem is finding an independent appraiser who will take the stone out and as it is in an original setting I'm unsure how fragile it is.

Are there any good sites you would recommend for OEC? Old world diamonds is a treasure trove that I had no idea existed.

This may or may not have to do with how delicate the setting is, but I did notice in your original post, the vendor's description of the setting is Edwardian Style. Edwardian 'style' often indicates the piece is a reproduction rather than an original antique or vintage piece. Reproductions can be just as beautiful as an original piece, but it may be another thing you want to check with your love. Is an authentic antique setting important to her? Or does she just love antique/Edwardian style and would be equally (or perhaps more so) happy with something that looks vintage as she would with an actual vintage piece?

Thanks for all the good info. According to the seller the setting is original, I'll definitely need to see the ring in person and bring it to someone with experience identifying if this truly is a vintage piece. She doesn't mind if it is an actual vintage piece or a well done reproduction.

 

[LightBright]

I think it's an original antique setting. My 1913 setting with a cut that Dreamer calls "American Cut" (according to Al Gilbertson's book) is very similar, although nowhere near as elaborate. This setting has the same extremely fine miligrain, very fine basket struts, and form factor as the very rare Edwardian pieces I've seen. (Look up photos of Dreamer's original setting and the basket struts are also very fine... It was a style back then and I don't believe modern production practices can achieve it without difficulty.) It also has a slight wear pattern, like mine, that indicate it was worn with other rings and is old.

I've not seen reproductions this good, and I wouldn't buy the ring if it's got a repro setting. If it is indeed a reproduction, which Gypsy mentions she thinks it is, it would be game over for me. Is there an inscription in the ring? Mine was dated 1913 in the inscription.