Input requested for a Montana Sapphire Engagement Ring

[Rommsey]

Hello there,

I would like to ask for some assistance and guidance in designing an engagement ring using a Sapphire. I had some other posts in the Rocky Talky section and was encouraged to come here with my colored stone questions.

Some of the styles we like:

http://www.simplysapphires.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170&products_id=8009
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-sapphire-and-diamond-halo-ring.176307/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-sapphire-and-diamond-halo-ring.176307/[/URL]
http://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-sapphire-halo-engagement-ring
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-montana-sapphire-halo-ring-from-brilliantly-engaged.207716/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-montana-sapphire-halo-ring-from-brilliantly-engaged.207716/[/URL]
https://www.josephjewelry.com/custom-blue-sapphire-and-diamond-halo-engagement-ring-102018?page=1
https://www.josephjewelry.com/custom-blue-sapphire-and-diamond-engagement-ring-100923?page=3
http://www.stevenkirsch.com/engagement/halo/r0503.html


Here are some of the Sapphires from Gemfix that stand out:

Oval:

sapphire_montana_305 (Price: $ 1970.00 | Heat: None)



sapphire_montana_328 (Price: $ 3250.00 | Heat: None)



sapphire_montana_371 (Price: $ 2995.00 | Heat: Some)



Cushion:

sapphire_montana_365 (Price: $ 4475.00 | Heat: Some)



sapphire_montana_420 (Price: $ 5270.00 | Heat: Some)



The first two oval Montana Sapphires have the highest appeal (#s 305 and 32 out of the list.

So basically what we are looking for:

- A nice large center stone but one that doesn't raise high or sit high rather one that is large but is less likely to catch, perhaps low profile? Basically length and width without the depth.
- Platinum ring size 6
- Halo or a ring where the side stones in channel or pave lead up to the center stone (preferable channel)

So where we need help is the setting (perhaps a semi mount) itself and what is out there. Do you guys have any suggestions? In my other thread I spoke about a red/white/blue theme for the ring. I wonder if two matched rubies on the side would work?

 

[SB621]

All of these have a very grey tone (or is modifier) to them. I would pass on all. Have you contacted Fine Water Gems? Gene just posted a few sapphires that are lovely. I also really like Jeff White's sapphires but you will be paying $$$$ for them.

Also check Loupe Troop, Diamond Bisto, Jeff Davis and Gary Braun for sapphires.

 

[Rommsey]

All of these have a very grey tone (or is modifier) to them. I would pass on all. Have you contacted Fine Water Gems? Gene just posted a few sapphires that are lovely. I also really like Jeff White's sapphires but you will be paying $$$$ for them.

Also check Loupe Troop, Diamond Bisto, Jeff Davis and Gary Braun for sapphires.

Thanks for the input!

I check the latter mentions daily and have not found much. I checked today for Fine Water Gems for the Montana Sapphire and the one I found had a large/noticeable inclusion in it so I was not attracted to it.

The bottom 3 sapphires don't appear to have much grey if any at all.

 

[VirginiaZee]

Montana sapphires tend to be modified by grey or green, but it really just depends on the color you're looking for. Are these representative of the blues you're looking for? Also, what's your budget, preferred mm size for the stone, and shape preference (if any)?

 

[Rommsey]

Montana sapphires tend to be modified by grey or green, but it really just depends on the color you're looking for. Are these representative of the blues you're looking for? Also, what's your budget, preferred mm size for the stone, and shape preference (if any)?

Around 10 mm in length would be grand and budget, let's say $8000. In terms of shape, Oval, cushion and round (in that order). I am asking a lot for Oval and 10mm in a Montana gem it seems. A nice cornflower blue or royal blue would suffice given the right size.

Thanks for taking the time and showing interest. I value the assistance!

 

[marymm]

Okay, here's a 3.17ct emerald-cut Montana sapphire (10.9 x 7mm)- so not one of your preferred cuts, but color-wise and size-wise it seems to meet your criteria - and it's within budget... I think it will show as a bright royal blue as long as your setting is rather open (as opposed to a closed full bezel).

https://www.etsy.com/listing/101004...apphire-deep-blue-317?ref=shop_home_active_11



A number of PSers have bought from this etsy vendor and been very pleased - I also did purchase but availed myself of the excellent return policy as the sapphire (though as described and depicted) did not work in a 3-ring stacker project I was working on at the time.

 

[Rommsey]

Nice stone but it seems pricey for heat no?

 

[marymm]

^ I do not think the price is out of range - AFIK Montana sapphires over 3 carats are on the rare side, especially one with this kind of color (blue with very little if any secondary modifier), and I believe the vast majority of Montana sapphire are heated - if this Montana sapphire in this color was actually unheated, the cost would be exponentially more. The pricing is quite in line with the GemFix sapphires you posted above, all of which are heated. Hopefully others with more expertise in sapphires/Montana sapphires will comment.

 

[treasurehunter]

I have been drooling over some of these montana sapphires on gem fix, there are some without the grey modifiers in very interesting pastel colours . They are unique and amazing some great colours to be found but totally different to the classic sapphire colours like cornflower and royal blues that are considered the 'best' colour for sapphire , some of these interesting pastel colours provide a unique option for design and colour

 

[Rommsey]

^ I do not think the price is out of range - AFIK Montana sapphires over 3 carats are on the rare side, especially one with this kind of color (blue with very little if any secondary modifier), and I believe the vast majority of Montana sapphire are heated - if this Montana sapphire in this color was actually unheated, the cost would be exponentially more. The pricing is quite in line with the GemFix sapphires you posted above, all of which are heated. Hopefully others with more expertise in sapphires/Montana sapphires will comment.

I'm puzzled why you say all of the Sapphires from Gemfix are heated when in fact the site says otherwise.

Thanks for the heads up on pricing match!

 

[marymm]

^ sorry for the confusion - I was referring to the 3+ carat Montana sapphires you linked to from GemFix.

GemFix lists a number of Montana Sapphires with no treatment but in the main they are either light in color saturation with significant grey modifiers, or have a strong green color/modifier.

Full disclosure: I have bought quite a few stones from GemFix and have been very happy with the stones and with the customer service. I posted the etsy Montana Sapphire above because you said you wanted a Montana Sapphire of a certain size and with a cornflower or royal blue color (colors not easily found in Montana sapphires which run more to denim/gray/green blues). It is entirely possible Andrew at GemFix may have a Montana Sapphire in stock but not yet listed on his website that corresponds to your prereqs- it may be useful to email him, including some pics of the blue color(s) you are seeking.

 

[digdeep]

All of these have a very grey tone (or is modifier) to them. I would pass on all. Have you contacted Fine Water Gems? Gene just posted a few sapphires that are lovely. I also really like Jeff White's sapphires but you will be paying $$$$ for them.

Also check Loupe Troop, Diamond Bisto, Jeff Davis and Gary Braun for sapphires.

Thanks for the input!

I check the latter mentions daily and have not found much. I checked today for Fine Water Gems for the Montana Sapphire and the one I found had a large/noticeable inclusion in it so I was not attracted to it.

The bottom 3 sapphires don't appear to have much grey if any at all.

Rommsey........can you post a link to the sapphire you saw at Finewater as I am not seeing any that are Montana? And also none that have visible inclusions at normal distances......(they are magnified in the photo's).

 

[lknvrb4]

You can also check out mastercutgems.com and blazengems.com, they both have Montana's as well.

 

[chrono]

Many Montana sapphires are now heated so if an unheated stone is important to you, I would request that the vendor provide proof from a reputable lab showing that it is unheated.

Ask Jerry to find out what he has available.
http://www.gemartservices.com/

 

[CirrusClouds]

I really like the second Sapphire you posted. You also mentioned possibly setting Rubies on the sides? If you are looking at lighter shades of blue for the Sapphire; pink Sapphires may do the center stone more justice than Rubies. Just an opinion and I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind on the Ruby aspect.

 

[liao]

One question guys... what is so special with montana sapphire? people said it has a nice brilliance. I cannot distinguish between montana cornflower blue with the classic ceylon cornflower blue

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Have you thought about contacting Blaze? Might as well go directly to the source. Email him and see what he has (that's not listed online). He's very responsive and helpful. He may also have some rough...if you're willing to go that route.

http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=index

 

[enbcfsobe]

One question guys... what is so special with montana sapphire? people said it has a nice brilliance. I cannot distinguish between montana cornflower blue with the classic ceylon cornflower blue

I would love if someone from the trade can speak to this. I only have 2 small blue sapphires to compare -- one montana and one of unknown non-montana origin. I do think the montana is more "sparkly" but they are very different cuts so not a good comparison.

From a non-technical perspective I think the attraction of montanas is personal. I really like the unique denimy blues and blue-greens. I think some people seek them out to buy American or to avoid issues about conflict gems.

Rommsey, I like the second and the last stones of the ones from gemfix. I just think the combo of cut/color on those is more interesting and lively. No idea how they will look in person -- maybe others can speak to whether they are likely to be dark? The one from etsy also looks really pretty, and a cut you don't often see for montana sapphire.

 

[CirrusClouds]

I agree with possibly having rough cut to size, measurements that you need. Montana Sapphire in the rough is pretty reasonable in my opinion.

 

[deskjockey]

One question guys... what is so special with montana sapphire? people said it has a nice brilliance. I cannot distinguish between montana cornflower blue with the classic ceylon cornflower blue

I can't speak for everyone, but I like them because I think they're interesting and the colors are slightly unusual, as well as the fact that they are of American origin. There's something about the idea that I could take a short plane ride and go find one of my very own that's pretty appealing But overall, I tend to be attracted to the slightly "off" stones, where the color is different from ideal, or there are unusual inclusions, that sort of thing. And my favorite colors are greenish-blues, and there are a lot of montanas with that coloration (I've seen some african and australian sapphires with greenish hues, but the ones I've seen have been darker).

I still want a beautiful royal blue sapphire someday, but I love my montana I especially love when people can't figure out what it is. It has flummoxed several jewelry store employees, which I think is fun.

 

[CirrusClouds]

I've read that Montana localities have a high refractive index compared to other areas. I haven't personally had time to compare them. Also, compared to other localities in the world; Montana varieties of "gem-quality" without treatments are much harder to find, making it also a collectors piece in aspects of non-treated gemstones.

I mine for Sapphires, Rubies, Emeralds, Tourmalines etc. in North Carolina and finding gem-quality blue Sapphires is like the Holy Grail. Finding the right geologic environment of iron deposits (and other metals) to color the corundum is difficult. Rubies and Emeralds are more common than the blue Sapphires here. I'm determined to find a source and I've found some gem-quality yellow Sapphires, so I may be close.

 

[enbcfsobe]

Cirrus thanks so much for that explanation. It is fascinating to me that the same species of stone can differ so greatly based on origin.

 

[deorwine]

I, uh, may have been on a Montana sapphire kick lately, mostly from Dana (he keeps putting them on his site! They keep being absolutely gorgeous!) and mostly in the smaller sizes (5mm and under), because that's all I can afford. I have four of them now, three from mastercutgems and one from Finewater... at some point I'll take pics and post them, but probably not until after Christmas. I was originally attracted to them mostly because I like the idea of an American gemstone (and I love sapphires), and I like the slightly greenish color that Montanas tend to have.

Some things I've learned from my buying spree:

-Montanas are color-shifting little monsters. All the ones I've seen (except the Finewater one I mentioned below) have shifted quite a bit under different kinds of lighting; in particular they seem to get a lot more grey in indirect lighting, especially indoor lighting, than other sapphires I own. Definitely you need to look at these guys in person. I rather like color-shifting -- it's like getting multiple gems for the price of one! -- so this is a feature to me rather than a bug, but other people might feel differently.

-For this reason, "cornflower blue" is... not typical of Montanas, or you might get one that is "cornflower blue" in shady sunlight but not in other kinds of lighting. I do have one very small Montana (the one from Finewater) that I would say holds a cornflower-blue type color, so it's possible, but it's rare. It's also on the slightly darker side. I would not call any of the ones in the OP "cornflower," but of course that's a term that's so variable that it's almost meaningless.

-Cirrus, you are right about the refractive index, at least from my small sample size. The lighter ones sparkle a bunch and one of mine (the powder blue one that Dana precision cut, which is possibly one of my favorite stones I own now) throws off rainbows like no other sapphire I've ever seen. You wouldn't mistake it for a diamond's fire, I don't think, but wow, I had no idea sapphires could do that.

-For these reasons it's worth it to get precision cutting for Montanas... on the other hand precision cutting seems to be more common for Montanas than for other sapphires, perhaps because they are mined in the US? As for the ones in the OP, I like the third and the last, which seem like the most sparkly... but also they are the most green, which I like but which is of course a personal taste.

I will also caution that I often find GemFix's pics to be slightly more saturated than they often look to me in person... I would look at the hand pics more than the gem-alone pics to get an idea of how they would typically look. However, they have excellent customer service, an excellent return policy, and are happy to answer questions.

 

[deskjockey]

-Montanas are color-shifting little monsters. All the ones I've seen (except the Finewater one I mentioned below) have shifted quite a bit under different kinds of lighting; in particular they seem to get a lot more grey in indirect lighting, especially indoor lighting, than other sapphires I own. Definitely you need to look at these guys in person. I rather like color-shifting -- it's like getting multiple gems for the price of one! -- so this is a feature to me rather than a bug, but other people might feel differently.

This is definitely a huge reason I love mine! It took me a few days to decide I liked it, not going to lie, but I find it so fascinating. If you have them available, check your stones out under LED lighting. But mine seems so moody, I am fascinated by the different things it does - it does stormy atlantic sea, it does teal, it does deep forest, and polished steel, depending on the lighting.

 

[deorwine]

This is definitely a huge reason I love mine! It took me a few days to decide I liked it, not going to lie, but I find it so fascinating. If you have them available, check your stones out under LED lighting. But mine seems so moody, I am fascinated by the different things it does - it does stormy atlantic sea, it does teal, it does deep forest, and polished steel, depending on the lighting.

Ha, are you me? I also was not sure at first, but after a few days decided I found it really fascinating. They're moody stones, all right, and now that I've had mine for a bit I find it really fascinating!

 

[distracts]

-Montanas are color-shifting little monsters. All the ones I've seen (except the Finewater one I mentioned below) have shifted quite a bit under different kinds of lighting; in particular they seem to get a lot more grey in indirect lighting, especially indoor lighting, than other sapphires I own. Definitely you need to look at these guys in person. I rather like color-shifting -- it's like getting multiple gems for the price of one! -- so this is a feature to me rather than a bug, but other people might feel differently.

This is definitely a huge reason I love mine! It took me a few days to decide I liked it, not going to lie, but I find it so fascinating. If you have them available, check your stones out under LED lighting. But mine seems so moody, I am fascinated by the different things it does - it does stormy atlantic sea, it does teal, it does deep forest, and polished steel, depending on the lighting.

Same same - I too definitely find it a feature rather than a bug. And mine gets a TON of compliments too.

 

[enbcfsobe]

All of this is making me think my little montana needs a new setting -- its in a pendant that i almost never wear. seems like i would have much more fun with it in a ring or bracelet where i could see it do its thing.