James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-WTF?

[onlyincali]

I'm searching for a Princess cut, 1-1.2 carat, I color, VS2 diamond on James Allen and noticed (and confirmed by their employee) that all of the "true heart" stones in that range were only AGS rated. The employee said that sometimes they are GIA certified but at this time they only have the AGS certified stones. I'm assuming there is a reason for this? Would they not have such a good rating if GIA inspected?

Would you rather stick with their "ideal" cut stones that are GIA certified or their "True Hearts" stones that are only AGS certified?

Being rather new to this, I learned about GIA ratings and pretty much told myself ONLY to buy GIA stones until I learn more. (I know, I know, there is much more to it, but it seems safer for a newbie to just stick with comparing GIA stones for now...) Am I an idiot? What do you think of them NOT grading their "true hearts" with GIA?

Thanks!

 

[dk168]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

I could be wrong, however, I vaguely remember reading about AGS being the preferred certification body for the top grade diamonds.

Hopefully the experts will come along to offer their advice soon.

DK

 

[chrono]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

AGS is a highly reputable diamond lab and I have no issues with buying a diamond that comes with an AGL memo. It is especially nice for princess cut stones because AGS has already run the diamond through the ASET for light performance whereas GIA does not provide sufficient information to tell whether a princess cut is well cut or not.

 

[liaerfbv]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Not a WTF situation. It's fine.

 

[LoveLikeCrazy]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

AGS has stricter cut standards than GIA. Only a small percentage make it into their AGS0 category. They also generally trade at a higher premium than GIA. I specifically looked for an AGS0 stone when i was diamond shopping!

 

[kenny]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

AGS is a highly reputable diamond lab and I have no issues with buying a diamond that comes with an AGL memo. It is especially nice for princess cut stones because AGS has already run the diamond through the ASET for light performance whereas GIA does not provide sufficient information to tell whether a princess cut is well cut or not.

+1

To elaborate ...
GIA does issue a cut grade on princesses.
AGS does.
Earning AGS's top cut grade of AGS 0 justifies a price premium.

This does not just to benefit JA, it also benefits the customer since they know they are getting top cut in a princess.
A GIA report cannot give you that assurance.

 

[onlyincali]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Thanks for the replies. Is the Princess Cut Chart on this site something to follow? I've noticed that a lot of the "true hearts" princess cuts are well out of the "ideal" range on the cut chart listed on this site (ie: diamonds with depth of 77% or tables of 70-73%). I'm super confused now.....

 

[kenny]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Just buy a princess cut that got AGS's cut grade of 0.
It is a very reputable and trustable standard.

IMO, you don't need to learn any more.

 

[aljdewey]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

AGS is a highly reputable diamond lab and I have no issues with buying a diamond that comes with an AGL memo. It is especially nice for princess cut stones because AGS has already run the diamond through the ASET for light performance whereas GIA does not provide sufficient information to tell whether a princess cut is well cut or not.

+1

To elaborate ...
GIA does issue a cut grade on princesses.
AGS does.
Earning AGS's top cut grade of AGS 0 justifies a price premium.

This does not just to benefit JA, it also benefits the customer since they know they are getting top cut in a princess.
A GIA report cannot give you that assurance.

I believe Kenny meant to say that GIA does not issue a cut grade on princess shapes - they only offer cut grades on round stones.

Disclaimer: It's been ages since I've been interested in the workings of modern stones, but when I was, AGS was the only lab offering a cut grade for princess cut diamonds.

I don't know if anyone else has gotten into the game for princess stones since, but I did double check the GIA website, and it appears they still don't grade cut for fancy shapes.

Therefore, well-cut princess stones are more likely to be sent through to AGS, who does offer cut grades on princess cut diamonds.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Onlyincali,

As Kenny and Allison have said, GIA does not provide an overall cut grade on princess (although they say they are working on it).

Since you are obviously interested in comparing and contrasting the two labs and their approach to reporting on princess cuts, you may find the article below to be helpful. Included in the technical aspects is some market perspective on why most princess cut on the market are far from Ideal.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratories-diamond-cut-grading-princess-cut

Hope you find the info useful.

 

[kenny]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Opps, yes thanks Aljdewey for correcting my mistake.

 

[AprilBaby]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Very informative article!

 

[onlyincali]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Great read, thank you!

Question- Does this site have any relation to AGS? It seems like AGS is highly praised on here but most sites/individual's articles state that GIA is the strictest and that companies often send their stones to AGS if they don't get an adequate GIA cert. After reading, I do see the importance of grading the cut and AGS does this, where GIA doesn't. With this said, if you want a GIA diamond with I clarity, would it be wise to buy an AGS stone with H clarity? And buy a AGS VS2 stone if your GIA requirement is SI2?

Thanks again for the replies. I don't mean to beat this into the ground....this is the largest purchase I've ever made and want to make a good decision. Thanks!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: James Allen Princess cut "TRUE Hearts" only AGS, no GIA-

Great read, thank you!

Question- Does this site have any relation to AGS? It seems like AGS is highly praised on here but most sites/individual's articles state that GIA is the strictest and that companies often send their stones to AGS if they don't get an adequate GIA cert. After reading, I do see the importance of grading the cut and AGS does this, where GIA doesn't. With this said, if you want a GIA diamond with I clarity, would it be wise to buy an AGS stone with H clarity? And buy a AGS VS2 stone if your GIA requirement is SI2?

Thanks again for the replies. I don't mean to beat this into the ground....this is the largest purchase I've ever made and want to make a good decision. Thanks!

I am not quite sure what you mean by the question "does this site have any relation to AGS?". AGS is an organization of leading jewelers and AGSL is the lab they built to serve not only AGS members but any retail jeweler who wishes to access their services. The parent organization and the lab operate with the highest integrity with consumer education and protection as their primary mission.

You will see a disproportionate number of AGS graded diamonds in the inventories of vendors who participate here (relative to mainstream brick and mortar jewelers) because this community is quite particular about cut quality, and with good reason.

It is important to understand the close relationship between GIA and AGS. They are in a real sense sister organizations that were founded by the same group of jewelry professionals. There is a high level of cooperation between the labs. As an example some GIA lab courses are taught on the AGSL campus. To become an AGS Certified Gemologist, a prerequisite is a GIA Graduate Gemologist credential. Many of the top AGS lab staff held similar positions at the GIA. In short, there is a reason these two labs are considered the cream of the crop. The big difference is the level of scientific sophistication in the cut quality analysis performed at AGSL.

You will see opinions bantied about suggesting that AGSL is somehow "softer" in grading color and clarity. These opinions are typically second hand repetitions of something they heard, or are based upon extremely limited anecdotal cases. Those of us that work with both GIA and AGS reports on a regular basis do not share that view. There is an understood 1 grade acceptable difference due to the nature of color and clarity grading in terms of the human element and the fact that these grades are not distinct entities, but very small ranges on a continuum. Our experience and the experience of other vendors and diamond manufactures bears out the fact that in most cases the two labs agree. Where there is a difference it is very rarely more than one grade apart and it can go either way. There is no consistent trend that supports the claim that either lab is softer than the other.

I hope that helps put the grading aspect into some perspective for you.