Please help me find a beautiful stone!

[wink1066]

Hey all -- This is my first post, but I've been casually browsing PS for a few months now. I'm in the market to buy a diamond for my wonderful girlfriend and, despite perusing what is extremely helpful information on this forum, I'm having some trouble finding a good diamond. I would really appreciate some pointers.

Here's some more info. Budget is $20K for the stone. We are looking for a round brilliant between 2.25 and 2.5ish carats. She prefers something around 2.3 or 2.35, but I would like to get her something larger if I can. Her major concern is that it be excellent cut, preferably XXX. Not color sensitive, but nothing lower than J. Nothing below SI1 clarity and must be eye clean. I can go a little over 20K if it's an absolutely amazing stone, but would prefer to stay at or below budget.

I'm really excited about the next few months, and need to find something within the next month or so. She's an amazing girl and deserves the best, so I hope I can find her the best. I've read a lot about diamonds the last few months, but I am just having a hard time picking out what is good from what is bad in the VS1s, VS2s, SI1s. I feel like I'm eliminating things haphazardly and could be excluding some great stones. Any advice or pointers?

Thanks so much in advance. Really appreciate how insightful and helpful everyone here is.

 

[lil2181]

Hello,
I think you can ask any of the online companies to help you find a stone. You can go to James Allen, White Flash, or Brain Gavin. They will all help you find something. Just tell them the requirements you just posted.

 

[lil2181]

Hello,
I think you can ask any of the online companies to help you find a stone. You can go to James Allen, White Flash, or Brain Gavin. They will all help you find something. Just tell them the requirements you just posted.

 

[Gypsy]

I think this is a lovely stone:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.19-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-260353 It's got everything you need. Ask for an idealscope and post it here.


This one is too, and it is an AGS 0: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.11-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73559 Again, ask for an idealscope.

And this: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.10-carat-j-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-353339


IF eyeclean, this is the largest: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.32-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-89739

Put three on hold and ask for a ideal scopes of each. It will take 5 business days.


http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.02-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-217448 This is higher color just in case.

 

[wink1066]

Thank you both. I'm starting to get skeptical about SI1 because the majority of the ones I've seen at the brick and mortar stores are not eye clean even if the jeweler says they are. I did see a really lovely one recently, but the jeweler was extremely overpriced in comparison to what others have shown me with similar stats.

 

[wink1066]

I think this is a lovely stone:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.19-carat-j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-260353 It's got everything you need. Ask for an idealscope and post it here.


This one is too, and it is an AGS 0: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.11-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-73559 Again, ask for an idealscope.

And this: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.10-carat-j-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-353339


IF eyeclean, this is the largest: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.32-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-89739

Put three on hold and ask for a ideal scopes of each. It will take 5 business days.


http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.02-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-217448 This is higher color just in case.

Hey Gypsy -- I noticed you picked out an AGS stone. I've only been looking at GIA, but I've seen EGL and similar. How reputable is AGS? Is there anything I should watch out for with an AGS rating?

 

[Gypsy]

Other options:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6407491-2.34-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6407491&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com Ask if it is eyeclean and if the cloud impact brilliance. Also please get an idealscope. Big, H color and the angles are in a very good range.

 

[Gypsy]

Hey Gypsy -- I noticed you picked out an AGS stone. I've only been looking at GIA, but I've seen EGL and similar. How reputable is AGS? Is there anything I should watch out for with an AGS rating?

EGL- Bad.
GIA- Great.
AGS- Great if there is a lighting report (all those have lighting reports). Otherwise you are better off with GIA to avoid AGS premium.

Here's some knowledge for you on labs It is out of date though, because EGL has gotten worse, people are suing over the inaccurate and fraudulent reports. And EGL has been banned from Rapnet to stay away from EGL. :
"IGI and EGL are like large statewide universities.

GIA is Ivy League, and AGS is like the MIT rocket-science program.

A polisher or manufacturer sends each diamond (student) to the place it will get the best grade (earn more $).

The good to average go to the large universities (IGI/EGL).

The better ones are sent to the Ivy League (GIA / HRD) and a few nerds go to MIT (AGS).
Drop outs end up in a ‘program’ at a chain store or Joe's Bar & Grading Lab.

This fun analogy underplays complex factors such as a cutters specialty and client base and a dealers target market."



FROM HERE
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-report

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[wink1066]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

Thanks so much for this. I just found out about HCA recently and have been using it to reject stones I once thought were excellent/contenders. Now I realize they were absolutely not (scoring 4+ on the HCA). I've heard EGL is bad and I haven't looked at any EGL stones whatsoever, but I do love your analogy.

I'll definitely be looking into the Idealscopes as well as I get closer to making a selection. I guess my fear right now is that, since I can't tell what is an eye clean SI1 online without seeing the stone, I'm passing up what could potentially be "eye clean" stones (despite a good HCA number) because I'm not clear on how to figure out by myself if they are. You mentioned asking a vendor about whether the cloud affects brilliance. Are vendors generally honest if you ask these types of questions? E.g., if an SI1 is truly eye clean? I'm just nervous because, from past experiences at the jewelers I've been working with, they say it's eye clean but I can clearly see inclusions without even looking through the loupe

 

[Gypsy]

The vendors I linked you to will be honest. Are all vendors? No. But JA and B2C will tell you if a stone is eyeclean.

The KEY is making sure your definition of eyeclean matches theirs. So make sure to ask that as well.

I do prefer JA as a vendor, because they have the videos. The only stone at JA that I was unsure about being eyeclean is the 2.32 stone.


But I wanted to give you a choice so I posted the B2C stone for you. Make sure you get a picture and an idealscope of that one. If they can't provide them then I would pass.

 

[wink1066]

Thanks, Gypsy. All good to know. I will definitely ask!