Cushion Sandbox Wars

[CharmyPoo]

I just noticed that you wanted a 3-stone. Too bad about LM because I truly consider him the best at proportions for 3 stones or 5 stones. With that said, SK has made many beautiful 3-stones ... not too hard!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'm saddened by the way this thread has gone. It's unfortunate if Caysie was "shilling" ( and by saying this I am not questioning the mods), as she didn't need to. Her pieces are gorgeous and there are several of us "real" customers that posted our rings and are very happy with them. The OP asked about who could set an AVC and Caysie is talented with antique cuts, and her bench does impeccable work. I understand where some people would not recommend a banned member, but LAD still uses Caysie for some of her designs and Benchwork, too. Caysie's work should speak for itself. Let us not turn this thread into a another big "drama" on PS.

eta- punctutation

I agree with this totally. I will continue to recommend Caysie as well, because she and her team are the best I know of for certain designs. She is also a one of the most kind, honest, and genuine people I have met here. I forgive my friends if they make a mistake and they do likewise, so I am able to move on.

 

[chrono]

If my favourite vendor was found to have broken a forum rule, I would no longer recommend him/her regardless of his/her quality of work because it speaks to me of their lack of ethics. Yes, I will forgive minor infractions as we all human and make mistakes but when the infraction is serious, my trust is now broken.

 

[liaerfbv]

I'm saddened by the way this thread has gone. It's unfortunate if Caysie was "shilling" ( and by saying this I am not questioning the mods), as she didn't need to. Her pieces are gorgeous and there are several of us "real" customers that posted our rings and are very happy with them. The OP asked about who could set an AVC and Caysie is talented with antique cuts, and her bench does impeccable work. I understand where some people would not recommend a banned member, but LAD still uses Caysie for some of her designs and Benchwork, too. Caysie's work should speak for itself. Let us not turn this thread into a another big "drama" on PS.

eta- punctutation

I agree with this totally. I will continue to recommend Caysie as well, because she and her team are the best I know of for certain designs. She is also a one of the most kind, honest, and genuine people I have met here. I forgive my friends if they make a mistake and they do likewise, so I am able to move on.

I've never worked with CvB so I do not have an opinion. But generally the vendors I use -- I do not consider friends and would hold them to a much higher standard of "forgiveness" than a typical person.

I don't know the specific situation that led to her banning other than what Gypsy posted previously, but based on that I also have questions about her ethically that would probably not lead me to work with her in the future without more clarification about the situation.

 

[liaerfbv]

OP, I'm sorry this thread has gone off-topic for you. I do not own an AVC (not for lack of lusting over them!), but if I bought one I would probably use BE or LAD, both of whom I've had great experiences with and will work with AVCs to my knowledge.

 

[Harpertoo]

CVB's forum transgression aside, it is a leap of faith to commence a custom project and send your stone to someone you have likely not even met.

I don't follow all the vendors and posts, but I would suggest you take a look at how a potential vendor handles problems and disputes. I've read enough comments alluding to non-banned vendors holding stones hostage, refusing refunds, and using melee that was clearly not what the customer had in mind. All the glowing SMTB posts are amazing inspiration, but it's important to understand what might happen if a mistake is made - regardless if you are paying a % of the value of you stone or more than most pay for the stone.

 

[Ella]

We have received multiple emails regarding the banning situation and asking for our perspective so we are writing one clarifying post.

We want to clarify that we do have proof of multiple instances of shilling, not only multiple accounts, but shilling.

We also communicated that information to the vendor in question months ago and it was admitted that they were their accounts. We have those emails. The original banning was long, but temporary. At this point it has been extended indefinitely although we at PS generally do not say permanent. We like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes there are circumstances where we cannot do that. I can say in my four + years on Pricescope this is one of the only times it has come to this.

OP, if you would like to start a new thread please go ahead.

 

[kenny]

If my favourite vendor was found to have broken a forum rule, I would no longer recommend him/her regardless of his/her quality of work because it speaks to me of their lack of ethics. Yes, I will forgive minor infractions as we all human and make mistakes but when the infraction is serious, my trust is now broken.

+1

Ethics pwns workmanship.

If I ran PS I'd ban recommendation of vendors banned for ethics violations.

 

[kenny]

I've never worked with CvB so I do not have an opinion.

I have never worked with her either, but Ella's word is good enough for me to form an opinion.

 

[ericad]

Dear PS friends,

As many know, I have recently contracted Team CVB (made up of Caysie, her CAD designer [shout out to Shayne, you’re amazing, sorry you got banned, lol] and her production jeweler/craftsman) to take over production of my Signature setting line, as well as custom projects for my setting clients. I’ve gotten to know her very well and count her as one of my very good friends and colleagues.

As this targeted attack on Caysie is both offensive to me as a trade member here on PS, as well as to me as Caysie’s friend and supporter, I would like to make an official statement regarding the rumors which have been circulating, thus far in closed Facebook private groups and now here on PS, for the world to see.

I’ll start by saying that I conduct myself in business the way I conduct myself in life: with honesty, integrity and kindness. I'm not perfect, but I make choices every single day that define the kind of person I want to be in this life. I have been privy to all of Caysie’s emails with Ella, and know exactly what she was banned for, that she was indeed apologetic, and that the claims being made by Ella are an exaggeration of the truth. This is all evidenced, in writing, and the truth will prevail, of this I have no doubt. CAYSIE HAS MY FULL AND COMPLETE SUPPORT. To suggest that she shilled repeatedly, was unrepentant and is in any way dishonest or lacking in integrity simply reeks of a smear campaign and has no basis in what actually took place. Did she break a rule and get banned? Yes. She apologized, accepted it and moved on with her life. Ella’s decision to publicly call Caysie’s integrity into question months later, and to invite others seeking to do business with CVB to please contact her for more of the same, was completely unprovoked, unnecessarily cruel, and interestingly timed. I’m not aware of any other vendor who has been targeted in this way. Ella’s commission of libel and defamation are what is of importance here. Had she simply said, “Caysie violated forum rules and is no longer a member here” it would have achieved the goal of explaining her inactive account. But she took it much farther than that, and continues to do so still. Why? PS has the right to ban anyone for any reason – the banning is not the issue, whether just or unjust. The issue is the subsequent actions taken by Ella and a small group of internet bullies, and we will get to the bottom of it all.

Caysie is a wonderful, kind and hardworking woman who will bend over backwards for every client to make them happy. She’s the same person that she’s always been. Her team is putting out work that rivals that of the top setting craftspeople in the industry, and that is threatening to some, I suppose. Yes, she has made errors here on PS, as have all of us vendors. I’ve personally been spanked by Ella for self-promo on many occasions, as have several other vendors here, but we haven’t been banned. Yet the excessively harsh treatment of Caysie, and the subsequent libel committed against her, speak clearly to a targeted attack and concerted effort by a member of an influential internet forum to tarnish her reputation and cost her business, and the obvious question is why? I will not speculate about the possible reasons behind it, but believe me, it’s quite a tangled web – and all pertinent information has been given to Caysie’s legal team. There is a history here that goes back many months, to which the general public is not privy, and which I believe involve me as a desired target as well.

Sadly the downward spiral of events, starting with a handful of women chattering in private FB groups, which then escalated to blatant cyber-bullying and harassment, has now extended into a personal attack being launched against me in addition to Caysie. I have received threats of violence, anonymous emails of screenshots from these private groups showing me all of the terrible things people are saying about CVB and myself, been mocked by certain trade members in private FB groups, all as a result of the statements Ella made via email earlier this month. Ella’s actions have resulted in serious consequences to our reputations, our personal safety, and our livelihoods.

Everyone should know that, though I’ve remained fairly silent, there is a lot going on behind the scenes. I will not take this lying down, and I will defend myself and the people I care about. LAD will still put out amazing settings with or without Caysie. I’m not standing by Caysie because I NEED to – I’m standing by her because it’s right and I CHOOSE to. Not to toot my own horn, but I will say that the combination of LAD + CVB (Caysie is a trained artist and it shows) makes for a formidable team, and there are those who are threatened by that. Those who stand to gain business from our reputations being ruined, because as jewelers, our reputations are everything. I believe that the objective is to cut us down before we gain momentum. Nobody likes me, everyone hates me, guess I’ll go eat worms, right? WRONG.

I’ve contributed to this community for 7+ years. I’ve helped people discover old cuts and preserved countless vintage treasures. I’ve supported PS, recommended PS, attended and donated to GTG’s and spent probably hundreds of hours contributing to the forum. This post will likely get me banned (for shilling, she says ironically), and that saddens me. But many vendors are successful outside of pricescope and Caysie and I will persevere. We will not be bullied. We will not be threatened. I stand by Caysie because I CHOOSE to – and believe me, I wouldn’t hesitate to terminate a partnership if I felt a person to be untrustworthy or lacking in integrity. Caysie is neither of these things.

Best,
ED

“Don’t ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what you love. Because when you do what you love, the world will need it.”
- Howard Thurman​

 

[Karl_K]

I don't have a dog in this other than a very long time PS member and someone who feels like PS is in some ways my home.
Shilling is the ultimate betrayal of trust a vendor can do it pollutes the very fabric of PS.
They can be sorry all the want, be the nicest person, that does not change the fact that they lacked ethics and harmed the pricescope community.
A permanent ban and making it public is the right thing to do for the protection of the PS community.

 

[kenny]

I don't have a dog in this other than a very long time PS member and someone who feels like PS is in some ways my home.
Shilling is the ultimate betrayal of trust a vendor can do it pollutes the very fabric of PS.
They can be sorry all the want, be the nicest person, that does not change the fact that they lacked ethics and harmed the pricescope community.
A permanent ban and making it public is the right thing to do for the protection of the PS community.

+1, though I wish no elaboration of the reason for banning was offered.
It only opens the door to a food fight.
Then again, it is an effective deterrent since it illuminates the reason vendors should not shill.
I have no sympathy regarding any harm coming to someone's business as a result of their own unethical behavior.

Erica, you've opened pandora's box.
So you are saying there is a long back story and if we only knew it we'd feel Ella blew it? ... but you won't tell us the back story.
Gee, thanks a lot.

Sandbox indeed!

 

[Circe]

I don't have a dog in this other than a very long time PS member and someone who feels like PS is in some ways my home.
Shilling is the ultimate betrayal of trust a vendor can do it pollutes the very fabric of PS.
They can be sorry all the want, be the nicest person, that does not change the fact that they lacked ethics and harmed the pricescope community.
A permanent ban and making it public is the right thing to do for the protection of the PS community.

+1, though I wish no elaboration of the reason for banning was offered.
It only opens the door to a food fight.
Then again, it is an effective deterrent since it illuminates the reason vendors should not shill.
I have no sympathy regarding any harm coming to someone's business as a result of their own unethical behavior.

Erica, you've opened pandora's box.
So you are saying there is a long back story and if we only knew it we'd feel Ella blew it? ... but you won't tell us the back story.
Gee, thanks a lot.

Sandbox indeed!

Kenny, it sounds like there's litigation in the works: Erica's hands may well be tied.

Erica, I respect the work you and Caysie both do. I hope this can be resolved without damage to anybody's professional reputation.

 

[kenny]

I don't have a dog in this other than a very long time PS member and someone who feels like PS is in some ways my home.
Shilling is the ultimate betrayal of trust a vendor can do it pollutes the very fabric of PS.
They can be sorry all the want, be the nicest person, that does not change the fact that they lacked ethics and harmed the pricescope community.
A permanent ban and making it public is the right thing to do for the protection of the PS community.

+1, though I wish no elaboration of the reason for banning was offered.
It only opens the door to a food fight.
Then again, it is an effective deterrent since it illuminates the reason vendors should not shill.
I have no sympathy regarding any harm coming to someone's business as a result of their own unethical behavior.

Erica, you've opened pandora's box.
So you are saying there is a long back story and if we only knew it we'd feel Ella blew it? ... but you won't tell us the back story.
Gee, thanks a lot.

Sandbox indeed!

Kenny, it sounds like there's litigation in the works: Erica's hands may well be tied.

Erica, I respect the work you and Caysie both do. I hope this can be resolved without damage to anybody's professional reputation.

But not too tied to come into this room to rip a huge fart that reeks of sour grapes.

Caysie has has reportedly admitted to shilling.
Thus, she damaged her own professional reputation.

 

[marymm]

EricaD, frankly, you have a vested interest in CVB. Your post in my eyes is biased. I also view it as inappropriate and contrary to what I would expect from a PS vendor/member, though this is my personal opinion.

I had a negative experience with CVB as a vendor months ago, and found her unethical with respect to standing by her price quotes. It does not surprise me in the least that she has been unethical in other business practices.

To the OP: If you are going for a 3-stone setting, as VC is unavailable to you as an option, I agree with the suggestions to go with SK - he does beautiful work and I think will meet/surpass your expectations.

 

[coati]

I am only wading in to say this one thing, then I am staying out of this mess.

I have met Andrey quite a few times. And Erika quite a few times. To my knowledge, I have not met the moderator we call "Ella." I have attended GTG's and met Andrey's wife and many of the vendors, including Garry Holloway who is part owner.

We have very clear rules on this forum for vendors, in order to avoid the appearance OR the actuality of conflict of interest. In fact we have much stricter rules, imposed by Andrey, than we ever had under the previous owners. WHY is this?

Because, I know from speaking to Andrey, that it is VERY important to him that there is never a conflict of interest. That is why Gary's involvement is always disclosed. And it is very important to Gary as well that there is no conflict of interest.

Andrey and Erika have both told me that Erika is NOT Ella. That in fact, Erika has NEVER moderated. And I personally know that Erika HERSELF does not even pass on messages ( I have asked) to the moderator or Andrey, instead asking that people reach out directly. Because she has very clear boundaries with the moderation of this board.

Andrey and Gary both know that having a vendor-- ANY VENDOR-- moderate PS would be like asking a FOX to guard the hen house.

They would NOT do that. And therefore I trust them when they say (as they have always said) that Ella is NOT Erika. Erika writes articles, takes and posts pictures. Ella moderates. And they are and would have to be, separate people. So there is no vast anti-CvB conspiracy. Even if "Ella" is two or three different people (which might be for all I know), I firmly believe Andrey when he says that Ella is not Erika. Even part time. SO there is NO conflict. So Ella banning CvB is not a conspiracy to promote Erika Winters.

Now, I realize that off these boards people are making a giant fuss about the JBEG split up and have decided that like fans of some spectator sport they must take sides (which I do not personally understand). And somehow because Erika works with JBG and CvB works with LAD Erika and CvB are being dragged into this (unfortunate) sport.

But this is NOT FB. This is a privately owned and moderated site. CvB is a banned vendor and I WILL NOT recommend banned vendors out of respect for the owners of this board.

Why? Because ANDREY banning ANYONE has always been extremely unusual and only done with egregious and unrepentant cause. I know of several vendors that have been short term banned, and let back on with an apology. So this tells me that CvB DID shill. And did NOT apologize sincerely. I post on this board because I trust Andrey and like him.

I have not bought from EITHER CvB or Erika. I have no horse in this race.

And honestly I don't see the two as competitors. Their styles are COMPLETELY different. So is their product and so are their designs. The only thing they have in common, really, is that they work with two people who, for whatever reason (and no, I do not know why), used to be partners but are now competitors. But that's it. And while Grace and Erica might be competitors CvB and Erika Winters are NOT.

Andrey or Ella if this post offends. Please accept my apology. I am aware that moderator actions are not to be discussed as a general rule. But I am speaking from my experience with you Andrey, and of Gary, as people. Please feel free to delete this post if you feel that it is needed.

First, thank you, Gypsy, for this post. Second, apologies to the OP for this ridiculous thread derail.

Since my name has been brought into this unfortunate mess, I'd like to clarify a few things.

1. I do not moderate Pricescope's forum. Not in any shape or form. I am firewalled from forum moderation, as our moderator requires anonymity for her safety and security. I am not anonymous. I use my first and last name. So it is crucial for me to be firewalled from forum activity for my own security and for the integrity of Pricescope.

2. I have worked with Pricescope for well over 5 years as a writer, photographer, and editor. I write the PS Blog and educational content. I also act as an ambassador for Pricescope at jewelry trade shows to promote this great site for all it has to offer both consumers and trade. That comprises my work for Pricescope.

3. I launched my jewelry design business back in March of 2014. I now design and sell jewelry through select retailers and independently. My design business has nothing to do with Pricescope.

4. There are very few people that run this website, and we all have our designated roles. We are going to be creating a staff page to clearly delineate what we do. We all work very hard to make this place a safe and educational environment for consumers. Please help us keep it that way by contacting us directly with questions. Conjecture about Pricescope and its staff is not necessary. We are all here to communicate with PSers, and the appropriate people are happy to address any concerns about Pricescope directly. The aim is transparency. Have a question? Hit the contact button, and depending on our respective roles, one of us will contact you about any concerns.

All the best,
Erika

 

[kathley]

I was about to say that m-2-b had a gorgeous setting made by SK! But if you want something other than a pave type setting, such as antique style, Caysie van Bebber and her team do gorgeous work! She has made one band for me and I plan to use her again soon!
Oh, and CVB also makes Love Affair Diamonds settings for additional options!

DS Caysie was banned from PS for good reasons and there have been very significant complaints about her. I would not recommend her at all.

Can someone please tell me where in pricescope to go to see who is banned?

 

[FrekeChild]

I was about to say that m-2-b had a gorgeous setting made by SK! But if you want something other than a pave type setting, such as antique style, Caysie van Bebber and her team do gorgeous work! She has made one band for me and I plan to use her again soon!
Oh, and CVB also makes Love Affair Diamonds settings for additional options!

DS Caysie was banned from PS for good reasons and there have been very significant complaints about her. I would not recommend her at all.

Can someone please tell me where in pricescope to go to see who is banned?

Kathley, there is not a list or anything.

What you can do, however, is go to their user page, in this instance, we'll use CvB_ID, and you can see that it says "No" next to approved: https://www.pricescope.com/node/222932

This indicates that that user does not have the ability or permission to post to PS. I believe that further inquiry would have to go through the PS staff.

 

[AVC4Me]

I just noticed that you wanted a 3-stone. Too bad about LM because I truly consider him the best at proportions for 3 stones or 5 stones. With that said, SK has made many beautiful 3-stones ... not too hard!

Charmypoo...thanks for trying to bring this back around ...I'm just sitting here shaking my head...I'm looking for a classic, simple, well executed and "no detail overlooked" kind of setting....tending towards SK at this very moment, pending quote. Do you think he would be offended if I ask for prongs "not so claw like"?? Some people love 'em...I don't. His training with Leon is showing.

 

[SB621]

I apologize but did you post what type of ring you are looking for? If you are going to do a micropave halo I would probably go with SK. However if you are doing a 3 stone I would definitely contact Leon. Honestly he is the only person that I think truly understands proportions. All of his 3 stones to me are amazing!!! I have a 3 stone by both. Each are a little different. I will say if you want unplated WG I love SK's version of it. It has a slightly pinking hue to it. While LM deals in PLAT.

I just wanted to make one comment on this entire crazy train thread for EricaD. Nothing in the private FB page (at least the ones Im aware of) were said negatively about you or some conspiracy or taking sides. It was just how the banning of CVB would affect your current state of business. It was not coming from a negative place. Nor did anyone realize someone was taking screen shots that told half truths to forward to you vs the entire conversation.

 

[Laila619]

Sadly the downward spiral of events, starting with a handful of women chattering in private FB groups, which then escalated to blatant cyber-bullying and harassment, has now extended into a personal attack being launched against me in addition to Caysie. I have received threats of violence, anonymous emails of screenshots from these private groups showing me all of the terrible things people are saying about CVB and myself, been mocked by certain trade members in private FB groups, all as a result of the statements Ella made via email earlier this month.

Don't these "ladies" (and I use the word loosely) have anything better to do? You'd think they were in 5th grade based on their maturity level. How absolutely disgusting, and what a shame.

I hope the truth will prevail, and I am sorry Erica and Caysie have to go through this.

 

[dawnxcui]

Do you have a budget for the setting? because i know i wanted a top notch jeweler to do my setting, but after getting quotes for it i realized i didn't want to spend that much on the setting so i went with another jeweler that was more budget friendly.
may not be on the list of PS approved exceptional jewelers but has proven to have done good work.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I just noticed that you wanted a 3-stone. Too bad about LM because I truly consider him the best at proportions for 3 stones or 5 stones. With that said, SK has made many beautiful 3-stones ... not too hard!

Charmypoo...thanks for trying to bring this back around ...I'm just sitting here shaking my head...I'm looking for a classic, simple, well executed and "no detail overlooked" kind of setting....tending towards SK at this very moment, pending quote. Do you think he would be offended if I ask for prongs "not so claw like"?? Some people love 'em...I don't. His training with Leon is showing.

If you aren't interested in the claw prongs, I would actually consider lower cost CAD/CAST alternatives for a three stone. This way, you can actually really see the proportions and even wax models before it is made. Also, I am wondering if you stick with GOG to do this if you don't need sharp prongs .... I would say ERD/BE but it seems based on your update that they don't take GOG AVC stones now too????

 

[dawnxcui]

If you aren't interested in the claw prongs, I would actually consider lower CAD/CAST alternatives for a three stone. This way, you can actually really see the proportions and even wax models before it is made. Also, I am wondering if you stick with GOG to do this if you don't need sharp prongs .... I would say ERD/BE but it seems based on your update that they don't take GOG AVC stones now too????

last i checked which was back in august so this may be old news, all they said was they don't work with ERD/BE to get your ring set, but GOG will send your diamond to BE and you can work with BE yourself to have it set. but GOG will not be involved in the setting process of your ring.

 

[CharmyPoo]

If you aren't interested in the claw prongs, I would actually consider lower CAD/CAST alternatives for a three stone. This way, you can actually really see the proportions and even wax models before it is made. Also, I am wondering if you stick with GOG to do this if you don't need sharp prongs .... I would say ERD/BE but it seems based on your update that they don't take GOG AVC stones now too????

last i checked which was back in august so this may be old news, all they said was they don't work with ERD/BE to get your ring set, but GOG will send your diamond to BE and you can work with BE yourself to have it set. but GOG will not be involved in the setting process of your ring.

Ok that makes sense .. that's how I would expect it to work. Hand-off stone purchase to setting person. That's how I have always done it.

 

[SB621]

If you aren't interested in the claw prongs, I would actually consider lower CAD/CAST alternatives for a three stone. This way, you can actually really see the proportions and even wax models before it is made. Also, I am wondering if you stick with GOG to do this if you don't need sharp prongs .... I would say ERD/BE but it seems based on your update that they don't take GOG AVC stones now too????

last i checked which was back in august so this may be old news, all they said was they don't work with ERD/BE to get your ring set, but GOG will send your diamond to BE and you can work with BE yourself to have it set. but GOG will not be involved in the setting process of your ring.

Ok that makes sense .. that's how I would expect it to work. Hand-off stone purchase to setting person. That's how I have always done it.

+1

Are you doing peg prongs? Shelf prongs?

 

[tweeter8177]

Steven Kirsch made my 3-stone ring if you want to take a look at it for reference:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ch-3-stone-ring-with-pear-side-stones.189157/

Also, I had ERD/BE design a different ring for me earlier this year. When I was debating CAD versus handforged with them, Chris told me he would recommend handforged for a 3 stone ring. The ring I had done was a pave halo and I went CAD, but I thought I would pass this information onto you for your decision making.

Unfortunately, I am not sure about getting "non-claw" prongs. Both of my rings have claw prongs. Sorry!

 

[AVC4Me]

If you aren't interested in the claw prongs, I would actually consider lower CAD/CAST alternatives for a three stone. This way, you can actually really see the proportions and even wax models before it is made. Also, I am wondering if you stick with GOG to do this if you don't need sharp prongs .... I would say ERD/BE but it seems based on your update that they don't take GOG AVC stones now too????

last i checked which was back in august so this may be old news, all they said was they don't work with ERD/BE to get your ring set, but GOG will send your diamond to BE and you can work with BE yourself to have it set. but GOG will not be involved in the setting process of your ring.

Ok that makes sense .. that's how I would expect it to work. Hand-off stone purchase to setting person. That's how I have always done it.

+1

Are you doing peg prongs? Shelf prongs?

Perhaps going with double prongs...describe or better yet...can you show me shelf prongs?

 

[SB621]

Shelf prongs you usually see with step cuts but I have seen them on Antique cushions as well.

It's late for me so I will come back in the morning with pictures if others have posted by then!

 

[ccuheartnurse]

If you're paying for a custom setting, then you should get the kind of prongs you want regardless of who you find to take on your project & vision. I would advise to collect & send pics of exactly what you want so there isnt any question or design interpretation.