Wildfishgems crowd funding?

[VapidLapid]

I think that Edward would be well advised to discontinue this "Crowd Fund" thing, and that if he does he should be allowed to stay on the list.

I disagree. I can't let my conscious let him stay on the list after coming up with this. In my almost 30 years of collecting/buying colored stones, I have never seen anything like this, and I thought I've seen it all.

Why on Earth would someone want all this money up front on extremely overpriced gems?? How is a certificate any proof you'll even see your money back again? I also have yet to see any proof of his ethical mining practices, or charitable contributions. He's already not taking his membership in JEA seriously with this latest infraction.

This is most importantly a consumer forum, first and foremost, and it is our duty to protect people and their hard earned money from dealers like this.

Let's not get this into, "oh poor Ed, another mob mentality." I don't know how Ed is going to talk himself out of this one, and he can defend himself, but the idea of giving away my money to a retailer for an "investment," especially in a far off country, mind you, is rather scary to me.

basically this ^
it's not about venomous post. This is about unethical business practice. There is a huge difference between the real crowd-funding and pyramid scheme. Read this:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/042104.asp
http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/10/22/crowdfunding-potential-legal-disaster-waiting-to-happen/

Really, you're going to send us to Investopedia to read about ethics and business when you wrote your dissertation on the subject? If you are comfortable throwing actionable allegations out on this forum, I think you owe it to the forum to say it all, in your own words, and show specifically how this is a pyramid scheme.

 

[T L]

Then we disagree. I am not comfortable in saying that a member of JEA has committed infractions against that membership before JEA does.
Saying mob mentality was happening in this thread was correct, as the points raised were not valid, not germane to the issue. Marlow hypothesizing about unethical and shady stone procurement and then extrapolating his fantasy to Edward was grossly unfair. The OP came in, a member of two weeks who it was nearly impossible for the forum to talk out of buying a crappy cat eye sapphire from a very trusted vendor begins the thread sounding innocent and naive making allegations about a pyramid scheme that does not exist, and a few posts later reveals that he/she wrote his/her dissertation on the subject??

I know you've always had issues with Wildfish, and they were valid, but this here today is not.

I am not commenting on what Marlowe said, nor do you see me use any of his comments in this thread. I also didn't use the OP's comments, but regardless of his time here, I'm glad he brought this up.

My issues with Wildfish are in the past. I was happy to let him stay on the list as long as people were happy with him, and they have absolutely NOTHING to do with this at all. Please don't allude to that.

I'm not even talking ponzi scheme here at all, although I do admit it's uncomfortable giving a gem dealer all this money up front, only to hope you see a return in several years. The issue I have with this was very well articulated by Arkeib on the prior page, which is why I did quote her, and I'm re-quoting her again now.

What the website is not admitting when selling these "investment plans" is their retail markup on the gems. Sure the price of most gems over time has and will go up, but if you are only getting something that already has a retail markup of 200%, 300%, 500% or whatever added on to it then it's never going to be a bargain, even if you get to pick something worth 25%+ more than your initial outlay.

And Ed is the one that is determining the value of these gems, A HUGE CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

 

[VapidLapid]

Then we disagree. I am not comfortable in saying that a member of JEA has committed infractions against that membership before JEA does.
Saying mob mentality was happening in this thread was correct, as the points raised were not valid, not germane to the issue. Marlow hypothesizing about unethical and shady stone procurement and then extrapolating his fantasy to Edward was grossly unfair. The OP came in, a member of two weeks who it was nearly impossible for the forum to talk out of buying a crappy cat eye sapphire from a very trusted vendor begins the thread sounding innocent and naive making allegations about a pyramid scheme that does not exist, and a few posts later reveals that he/she wrote his/her dissertation on the subject??

I know you've always had issues with Wildfish, and they were valid, but this here today is not.

I am not commenting on what Marlowe said, nor do you see me use any of his comments in this thread. I also didn't use the OP's comments, but regardless of his time here, I'm glad he brought this up.

My issues with Wildfish are in the past. I was happy to let him stay on the list as long as people were happy with him, and they have absolutely NOTHING to do with this at all. Please don't allude to that.

TL I agree with you on much of this, but I do believe that this thread does not have a valid argument.

 

[T L]

Then we disagree. I am not comfortable in saying that a member of JEA has committed infractions against that membership before JEA does.
Saying mob mentality was happening in this thread was correct, as the points raised were not valid, not germane to the issue. Marlow hypothesizing about unethical and shady stone procurement and then extrapolating his fantasy to Edward was grossly unfair. The OP came in, a member of two weeks who it was nearly impossible for the forum to talk out of buying a crappy cat eye sapphire from a very trusted vendor begins the thread sounding innocent and naive making allegations about a pyramid scheme that does not exist, and a few posts later reveals that he/she wrote his/her dissertation on the subject??

I know you've always had issues with Wildfish, and they were valid, but this here today is not.

I am not commenting on what Marlowe said, nor do you see me use any of his comments in this thread. I also didn't use the OP's comments, but regardless of his time here, I'm glad he brought this up.

My issues with Wildfish are in the past. I was happy to let him stay on the list as long as people were happy with him, and they have absolutely NOTHING to do with this at all. Please don't allude to that.

TL I agree with you on much of this, but I do believe that this thread does not have a valid argument.

You may not think this thread has a valid argument, but I am glad that this thread pointed this "crowd funding" out so that we can all discuss and be forewarned about it. I would hate for someone to go to "the list," see Wildfish as a recommended vendor, and then buy a share in this "crowd funding" investment. Again, for the reasons I pointed out above, it's like throwing a great deal of money away. I don't get the logic in doing something like this unless you have no clue about colored gems at all.

I always say do the research yourself, get EDUCATED on colored gems and then buy a nice untreated, or minimally treated gem up front. Perhaps it will go up in value. If it doesn't, at least you don't have to worry about it, as you're not grossly overpaying if you're educated enough. I think this is what this forum is about.

 

[liao]

Do I have to upload my resume and CV to join PS?

Well, I am not good at teaching, but I will try. The basic idea behind pyramid scheme is gathering as many investor as possible by offering extremely high return. In fact, the return value is way too high such that no matter what the company do, there is no way to cover the promised return. To prevent the game to be termintated, the owner is actually used money invested by new member to pay the promised return + principal of the old one. You can imagine that the growth of the pyramid is exponential. So, basically, there will be a limit of which the pyramid cannot grow. When the size of the pyramid is getting closer to the 'max' point, the pyramid become more saturated. There will be a point that the pyramid cannot hold its business model anymore, and most of the time the owner will run away with whatever left of the company.

Wildfish case is an improved version of this basic pyramid scheme. In fact, since the principal + return is paid by the owner in term of stone sold by the owner himself. The function of 'max' point consist of two parts, the constant + function which determine the value the owner think it worth. In this case, the owner can freely adjust the value of the 'max' level. Imagine if there are 100 investors, and each of them invest $1000. Throughout the entire year, the owner can only made $25000 profit. if the investor decide to 'exit' from the investment, naturally, the owner will left with 0 profit. Fortunately, the investors do not have the power to enforce this. The owner can buy a $50000 worth of stone and tell the investor that the total worth of these stone is $125000 (principal + return). This model still has a 'max' point, but the 'max' point is abstract. Usually the most common form of abstract 'max' point is investor's rationality.

Most of the time, pyramid scheme is hard to identify unless a third neutral party step in. Most of the time, people will finally realize that the investment is pyramid scheme when the owner run away with the money.

I hope this is clear as I tried my best to remove as many jargon as possible.

 

[VapidLapid]

You have not convinced me that Wildfish is running a pyramid scheme. It looks more like a Gem of the Month club, but on a year term and quite expensive. If the agreed return on $10k put up is a $12.5k stone a year hence, how is that valueing a year hence any less subjective that the 10k stone today? Subjective pricing is rampant in the gem industry. And even so where in Wildfish's offer is the remotest sense of paying earlier investors' "return" with later "investor's" funds? This is more like a sphinx without a riddle than a pyramid.
You do not have to load your resume or cv to join PS, you volunteered your dissertation and subject. But regardless of one's credentials one is responsible for one's speech, and its defense.

 

[arkieb1]

Vapid, while on the one hand I agree he is doing nothing wrong and can charge people what he likes, you cannot deny there is a really unpalatable tone to the whole thing. For example the sales spiel on the website has broad statements like;

" Six billion consumers now get the message : Treated gems are not really gemstones."

This is totally misleading IMHO - so if a sapphire is heated it's not really a gemstone? What is it then? An egg? A fish? A top electric blue sapphire that is heated can be a far nicer product than a native cut dark piece of rubbish that is untreated so don't get me started on some of the things he is saying in his marketing blurb....

If people want to buy shares and they end up with a half decent gem at the end of it, I agree that is also not breaking anyone's rules. A dear friend of mine who is another member on here purchased a couple of stones from Ed and they were both badly cut and exceedingly overpriced for what they were. She sent them back and got a refund without hassle, so I will defend the guy as far as being willing to give her money back.

Perhaps rather than people making wild allegations about crown funding the crux of the matter is that all of the gemstones on this site are drastically overprice and are marketed in a glossy way to justify paying excessive prices - the site argues this is acceptable because the stones are natural and untreated. There are many reputable vendors selling untreated gems, many far nicer cuts at far better prices, they do not rely on the fact they are untreated to charge exorbitant prices, nor do they need to mention any private causes they happen to sponsor to help market their goods.

The point is for newbies and the clueless the rhetoric that goes with the whole thing is misleading. The prices of his stock and the justifications for those prices are also misleading. Add a gem fund scheme, which I reiterate is nothing more than a sugar coated way to sell overpriced gems to the unsuspecting, they think they are getting some type of deal or investment when if we consider the actual over inflated retail markup of the stones into the equation they really are not - I guess strictly speaking, it's not breaking any rules but it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[VapidLapid]

Thank you for your thoughts Arkieb1. I agree with you. I will be fine with Wildfish being removed from the list, not for fraud or ethics, but for selling often poorly cut, mystifyingly photographed, always over priced stones with a lot of awkward hype. I am not sure how that really differs from Cartier, Van Cleef and Arpels, Harry Winston and others, but hey, they're not on the list either.

 

[canuk-gal]

I am not sure how that really differs from Cartier, Van Cleef and Arpels, Harry Winston and others, but hey, they're not on the list either.

This..took the words...

 

[T L]

Thank you for your thoughts Arkieb1. I agree with you. I will be fine with Wildfish being removed from the list, not for fraud or ethics, but for selling often poorly cut, mystifyingly photographed, always over priced stones with a lot of awkward hype. I am not sure how that really differs from Cartier, Van Cleef and Arpels, Harry Winston and others, but hey, they're not on the list either.

I agree, but HW, VC&A, Cartier, Tiffany, etc. . . are really jewelry designers, not just colored stone dealers, and their pieces do retain a higher resale value than say, a colored stone from a relatively unknown and small vendor.

 

[arkieb1]

Thank you for your thoughts Arkieb1. I agree with you. I will be fine with Wildfish being removed from the list, not for fraud or ethics, but for selling often poorly cut, mystifyingly photographed, always over priced stones with a lot of awkward hype. I am not sure how that really differs from Cartier, Van Cleef and Arpels, Harry Winston and others, but hey, they're not on the list either.

True, there is nothing wrong with marketing hype, lots of luxury brands depend on it.... But judging by the stones my friend received compared to the heavily photoshopped "mystifyingly photographed" as you so elegantly put it, the stones were NOTHING like the images on his website. The coloured items from the stores you listed above are far nicer cuts and colours to my eye than what was being sold in the instance I saw, despite all stores listed above selling stones that are overpriced for what they are.

Selling overpriced stones is not against the rules. I think you have correctly identified the MAIN problem IS the misleading rhetoric, the grossly misleading sales statements and the exceedingly unrealistic photos that are being used. As far as I can see the site should have been called out on these things (irrespective of the latest stone funding scheme) long ago.

Buying a badly cut sapphire that costs $5000.00 that has an actual worth or is being sold elsewhere for $1000.00 does not compare to buying a Tiffany, Cartier or other luxury product that will hold part of it's resale value because of the brand. Wildfish to the best of my knowledge has no such commercial resale value attached to its brand.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

The OP has made unsubstantiated claims about a Pyramid scheme and no textbook definition gives credulity to the same; it only gives rise to old grievances and piling on.

In short, it begs the question.....what is the OP'S point?

 

[VapidLapid]

without the poorly chosen "investment" and "return" terms in Edward's "gem fund", the structure of the plan is much more like that of community sponsored agriculture than to any thing else I can think of.

eta: I also just saw a lot of precision cut stones on his site, cut by some of our other respected vendors. And indeed, they are expensive and "mysteriously photographed".

 

[PrecisionGem]

Since you guys brought it up..... We are not involved in puppy rescue, but involved in PUPPY MILL AWARENESS. Our work is to make people aware of where the puppies they buy in a pet store come from. To this end, we have organized a few events in and around the NYC area over the past few years.

With the holidays coming, people often buy a dog. Please don't support the cruelty and buy from a pet store. Pet store can only buy from a "commercial kennel" which is another word for a puppy mill. These are large scale breading facilities where the mothers are kept in very substandard conditions, in small cages for their entire useful breading life, for the sole purpose of putting out litter after litter of puppies.

If you are interested in a puppy or dog for Christmas, try Petfinder.com. You can find local rescues that will have the type of dog you are interested in. If the people will stop buying animals from pet stores the puppy mills will end.

As the weather turns cold, think of the thousands of breading dogs, living in wire cages, in the cold, with no vet care, no compassion, and just enough food to keep them alive. These older breeding dogs, when they can longer produce, are also available to adopt, and they can make very grateful rewarding pets too. We have a little yorki girls who spent years in a cage in Lancaster PA. Now she sleeps in out bed.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Dear Moderators,

May I comment on some issues?

If not, may I suggest that those who talk of 'Ponzi scheme' (which is a criminal allegation) to carefully read through the details of my offer and not just fly over the page and then start libelling me based on quarter facts?

Libel is not such a funny matter.

 

[Marlow]

I think your offer is not a ponzi scheme - your shareholder will get back a gem gem for 15000 after two years - no problem for you - you have enough gems.

The problem is that your gems are extremely overpriced!

What will you do if a court- approved experts says your 15000 $ gem is worth around 2000$ like the cobalt spinel ( in my opinion) your offer?

If your offer your crowd funding in Germany pleasy read this carefully - German law. We had several cases with so-called "Schrott-Immobilien" in East Germany worth only a fracture of the selling price... Many people were unable to sell them and lost much money.

Your offer is crystal clear!! Not a 1000 pages contract!!! Again - read this carefully....
----------

Section 263
Fraud

(1) Whosoever with the intent of obtaining for himself or a third person an unlawful material benefit damages the property of another by causing or maintaining an error by pretending false facts or by distorting or suppressing true facts shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine.

(2) The attempt shall be punishable.

(3) In especially serious cases the penalty shall be imprisonment from six months to ten years. An especially serious case typically occurs if the offender

1.  acts on a commercial basis or as a member of a gang whose purpose is the continued commission of forgery or fraud;

2.  causes a major financial loss of or acts with the intent of placing a large number of persons in danger of financial loss by the continued commission of offences of fraud;

3.  places another person in financial hardship;

4.  abuses his powers or his position as a public official; or

5.  pretends that an insured event has happened after he or another have for this purpose set fire to an object of significant value or destroyed it, in whole or in part, through setting fire to it or caused the sinking or beaching of a ship.

(4) Section 243(2), section 247 and section 248a shall apply mutatis mutandis.

(5) Whosoever on a commercial basis commits fraud as a member of a gang, whose purpose is the continued commission of offences under sections 263 to 264 or sections 267 to 269 shall be liable to imprisonment from one to ten years, in less serious cases to imprisonment from six months to five years.

(6) The court may make a supervision order (section 68(1)).

(7) Section 43a and 73d shall apply if the offender acts as a member of a gang whose purpose is the continued commission of offences under sections 263 to 264 or sections 267 to 269. Section 73d shall also apply if the offender acts on a commercial basis.

table of contents

-------

 

[Edward Bristol]

Marlow,

You must really allow people to sell their goods at the prices they want. (Unless you like to go back to communist price planning by a government).

If I think a gem has a special value and I want to sell it at a higher rate that is totally my business. I can sell a precision cut 2 carat ruby at 50k if I want to. Don't buy it!

Most of my customers are experienced collectors and 75% are return buyers. They buy more than just a gem from me. And they don't care about the price that much.

Anyways, if that all is as easy as ‘akrabakar’ then why does nobody do it? Thousands of people trying to make a living would jump on such an easy business. But as everybody in the trade can tell you, it is not that easy at all.

 

[Marlow]

If you OFFER a stone and somebody ACCEPT your offer it is a sales contract - o.k.

But you offer now an investment.... not the same imo...

And you must allow me or other PSler here if somebody link a stone from your store that we tell interested people here what we think about it.

I have enough experience. Tell me - am I wrong with your cobalt spinell - how much did you pay as a trade person - 1000, 1200$ ..

What is sooo special in this stone - a typical cobaltoferrous spinel from Sri Lanka with a deep slightly grayish blue color with a def. nice cut - that you want 5000 pct???

Sure I will get no answer....

But - I promise you that I will post no "fantasies" in the future - I will only compare your stones and prices with other vendors.
Course this is an educational customer forum!!! And I love this....

 

[T L]

Most of my customers are experienced collectors and 75% are return buyers. They buy more than just a gem from me. And they don't care about the price that much.

Ed, can I remind you that this is a consumer forum, so people here often DO care about price. Sure you have the right to charge whatever you want, but "investment" entails the notion that you're going to be getting something back worth far more than you initially invested. Unlike precious metal, bonds, stocks, the fact is that colored gem prices are not as easily defined, and price per carat for one dealer can be outrageously different than that from someone else. Many naive people will look at your investment thinking, "Oh I can get a gem that will be worth so much more, so when I sell it one of these days, I'll make a huge profit." You cannot promise such false hope in an investment scheme, especially on an extremely marked up retail product. And again, why all this money up front? Why not just keep selling gems for the present like everyone does? Doesn't your mark up afford you a nice profit as it is? You say you have a lot of return customers, so that's great.

As for charging whatever you want up front for a colored gem, I have no problem with that, as there are similar stones out in the marketplace and consumers can price compare at the present time.

 

[LoversKites]

Most of my customers are experienced collectors and 75% are return buyers. They buy more than just a gem from me. And they don't care about the price that much.

Ed, can I remind you that this is a consumer forum, so people here often DO care about price. Sure you have the right to charge whatever you want, but "investment" entails the notion that you're going to be getting something back worth far more than you initially invested. Unlike precious metal, bonds, stocks, the fact is that colored gem prices are not as easily defined, and price per carat for one dealer can be outrageously different than that from someone else. Many naive people will look at your investment thinking, "Oh I can get a gem that will be worth so much more, so when I sell it one of these days, I'll make a huge profit." You cannot promise such false hope in an investment scheme, especially on an extremely marked up retail product. And again, why all this money up front? Why not just keep selling gems for the present like everyone does? Doesn't your mark up afford you a nice profit as it is? You say you have a lot of return customers, so that's great.

As for charging whatever you want up front for a colored gem, I have no problem with that, as there are similar stones out in the marketplace and consumers can price compare at the present time.

Thanks TL, I understand now that it's not actually about the prices of WFG is charging as that is totally their call, but suggesting an investor will get money out of this investment is, in this case, suspicious (because of the points you have raised).

Ed, the mods said already that you may clarify so long as you don't use promotional language.

I think calling this a ponzi scheme from the start was harsh. Before one can accuse someone of something that serious there must be debate, imo, with both sides.

 

[Edward Bristol]

First of all:

Marlow, I offer you a deal:

If you can make that $200 stone to anything similar to my stone (cobalt, precision, certified etc.), I give you my gem for free and throw in an acre of rainforest.

If you can’t (say in 6 months) you buy the acre of rainforest.

The PS community will judge. Deal?

About the share-business:

This was actually a customer’s idea/request and I have done similar deals several times over the last years because I was asked to.

A customer puts in X today and chooses a gem next year with X%+. Nothing else. Very simple.

People do that when they have cash in hand, but can’t decide for a gem or want to wait for something special and hate to get 0.5% interest rates at their bank (and I assume they trust me more than their banker)

Or, I have several customers who sent me X every month for years now and from time to time choose a gem themselves.

Taking this as a clue for a market demand I tried to formalize the offer. That was all.

I sold 10+ shares mostly to old time customers in the first 2 weeks and that was that.

So, there is no pyramid, snow-ball system or anything. And I am not rolling in cash here.

If really everybody thinks this is such a terrible idea, I will take it offline.

However, I must of course keep my deal with those who have bought shares and if somebody asks me for more, I cannot refuse.

As for my photos, again, they are all all done with a simple camera in normal daylight, no photoshop, and I have handshots and usually different backgrounds and if somebody wants a different image I make it. I must have gotten good over 12 years of gem photography, but I never try to mislead anybody because I hate returns.

 

[liao]

you can buy a $1 worth of candy and sell it for $10000 in you store. I do not care. However, when you start using the word "investment" to cover up your irrational mark up, it is a fraud. In fact, your investment model shares a lot of common ground with pyramid scheme. in the term listed on your site, the investor can pic whatever they want from your inventory. Let me tell you what, this is one of the huge hint of pyramid scheme. Imagine that one day you cannot pay your customer what you own them. The solution is easy! you can simply increase the price of stones in your inventory, and indirectly force your investors to pick those low valued stone from your inventory as the principal + return

in many country (especially in developed countries) you need a government's approval/permit to do something like this. I am not sure which country you are in, have you done any research on this issue as well?

 

[smitcompton]

HI,

This prospectus is definitely a red flag for any investor. It could turn into a con very easily. And in this country you would , I think, need SEC approval for this investment scheme. Here is where I see a problem. Lets say Joe Blow has a huge inventory and his high end market has slow sales. Joe gets an idea from a customer to get a cash infusion immediately, and banks or spends the money. After one year his customers look at his inventory and select their 12,500 stone. The customer is so happy he says I'll do it again, and so it goes. Joe blow is lucky, he has reduced his inventory and has $100,000 =200,000 banked. Did every one get what they wanted, maybe? But , even with Bernie Madoff. he didn't start out thinking he was going to swindle people. That was a respected man. The money people gave him was too easily gotten, and so the ponzi scheme began. He lived the good life. So much sorrow has happened to his family, it couldn't have been worth it.

So Ed, you may be 100% honest, but temptations or necessities can turn many peoples head. So you take care in how to proceed.


Annette

 

[Marlow]

Ed,

keep your stone - I will not buy a stone and pay for recutting and a certificate to get yours...

http://www.supershinegems.net/items.php?catid=3&subcatid=22&keyword=subcat22&color=Spinels&pg=1

This vendor offers several cobalt spinel for around 200-250 pct - as a trade member think you get it cheaper. They seperate Cospinel and Blue Spinel.

DJRaregems offer several Co-Spinel too.

I purchased my 8 CoSpinel for ( 0,36 ct / 70 EUR pct - 2,44 ct / 150 EUR pct) - The vendor is Dr. Jaroslav Hyrsl / CZ - an editorial board member of GIA - specialized in rare gems. These Co Spinel together with my tiny Luc Yen Spinel were tested by Dr. Karl Schmetzer. Feel free to contact them.

Another Co-Spinel I purchased from Athula Jayathunge - a Sri Lanka vendor - this stone was a bit "expensive" - 0,66ct for 135 EUR.
He still has many larger Co-Spinels - you could meet him in Tucson. If you need some....I could ask him.

I will post a picture.
-----

If you will give your 10 shareholder a gem which is similar to the amount the gave you + the 25% each year you will have no problem....

 

[Marlow]

http://www.gemsbynomads.com/blog/2014/02/26/cobalt-spinel-from-sri-lanka-of-three-carat/

5000 pct - 10000 pct - higher?

This is extraordinary!!! Not a cobaltoferrous Spinel!!!

 

[digdeep]

"About the share-business:

This was actually a customer’s idea/request and I have done similar deals several times over the last years because I was asked to.

A customer puts in X today and chooses a gem next year with X%+. Nothing else. Very simple.

People do that when they have cash in hand, but can’t decide for a gem or want to wait for something special and hate to get 0.5% interest rates at their bank (and I assume they trust me more than their banker)

Or, I have several customers who sent me X every month for years now and from time to time choose a gem themselves.

Taking this as a clue for a market demand I tried to formalize the offer. That was all.

I sold 10+ shares mostly to old time customers in the first 2 weeks and that was that.

So, there is no pyramid, snow-ball system or anything. And I am not rolling in cash here.

If really everybody thinks this is such a terrible idea, I will take it offline.

However, I must of course keep my deal with those who have bought shares and if somebody asks me for more, I cannot refuse."

Ed, can you clarify if this was all consumer driven, as you state above....... why you started the forum thread below in July? You said at that time that the idea for the thread and colored gems value's was based on talks with an investment banker and you weren't doing it because you were stretched too thin...... The term crowd sourcing/funding (hope that is spelled right) was used in that thread and you said you couldn't discuss it. Given what I read then and what I'm reading now...... It seems you have said you weren't going to do this and it was someone else's idea, but now you are saying it was based on customer's suggestions and you've already been doing it for a few years..............

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-has-happened-to-colored-gemstones.204412/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-has-happened-to-colored-gemstones.204412/[/URL]

 

[Edward Bristol]

HI,

So Ed, you may be 100% honest, but temptations or necessities can turn many peoples head. So you take care in how to proceed.


Annette

True, and I was thinking about it. I knew I had to always increase my stock value in step. Anyways, the thing was not so big so, no worries.

 

[Edward Bristol]

"About the share-business:

This was actually a customer’s idea/request and I have done similar deals several times over the last years because I was asked to.

A customer puts in X today and chooses a gem next year with X%+. Nothing else. Very simple.

People do that when they have cash in hand, but can’t decide for a gem or want to wait for something special and hate to get 0.5% interest rates at their bank (and I assume they trust me more than their banker)

Or, I have several customers who sent me X every month for years now and from time to time choose a gem themselves.

Taking this as a clue for a market demand I tried to formalize the offer. That was all.

I sold 10+ shares mostly to old time customers in the first 2 weeks and that was that.

So, there is no pyramid, snow-ball system or anything. And I am not rolling in cash here.

If really everybody thinks this is such a terrible idea, I will take it offline.

However, I must of course keep my deal with those who have bought shares and if somebody asks me for more, I cannot refuse."

Ed, can you clarify if this was all consumer driven, as you state above....... why you started the forum thread below in July? You said at that time that the idea for the thread and colored gems value's was based on talks with an investment banker and you weren't doing it because you were stretched too thin.....

Yes, it was going on for years, and then I explained the topic to a friend who tried to understand what was happening. So, I took time (and money) to produce those slides to show the market. My friend considered to start a gemstone-fund, but he got a new job, so I did what I could within my own website.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Ed,

keep your stone - I will not buy a stone and pay for recutting and a certificate to get yours...

No, you would be getting mine and the one you made yourself. And safe some rainforest.

The truth is that gem will not make anything similar, even if you would try.

Anybody else wants to take up the challenge?

 

[Edward Bristol]

Most of my customers are experienced collectors and 75% are return buyers. They buy more than just a gem from me. And they don't care about the price that much.

suggesting an investor will get money out of this investment is, in this case, suspicious (because of the points you have raised).

Please read my offer. It says nothing of getting money. It is only a 'call' on future prices.