Ebola: Do you support mandatory quarantine?

[momhappy]

Obviously, volunteering for this sort of work carries with it a risk of contracting the disease. For those who have argued about how quarantine affects one's pay (or lack there of), you'd think that an intelligent/educated person (like a nurse) would factor in the possibility of missing work should they actually contract the virus... Again, none of this makes a bit of sense to me and yes, it is absolutely perrrrrfect material for an SNL skit

 

[Calliecake]

HiRe: Ebola: Do you support mandatory quarantine?

I wonder if they'll do a SNL skit on her?

There's so much potential for comedic material in how 'Nurse Wretched' has behaved.

You call her Nurse Wretched, I call her Kacie Kardashian! I've think she even has the Kardashians beat in attention getting behavior!

 

[momhappy]

Heard a funny tweet today about this - someone said that her selfish actions have demonstrated that she's clearly contracted a horrible case of ME-bola

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

I would not participate in a quarantine either. I don't follow Kaci because I can't stand ANY of this over hyped ebola coverage, so I can't speak about whether she is a media grabber or obnoxious. What I do know is that ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear. There is absolutely no benefit to staying quarantined other than playing into media and public fears. Oh, I should stay home for three weeks to... make other people feel safe? why? It's illogical.

This disease does deserve coverage in the context of humanitarian aid to AFRICA where it is actually killing people. Instead our conversation is focused on the handful of infected people in America and people who MIGHT have ebola. If we're going to be self centered, can we at least as a nation pay attention to the diseases that are known threats here, are much more communicable, and have killed many Americans?

 

[missy]

Heard a funny tweet today about this - someone said that her selfish actions have demonstrated that she's clearly contracted a horrible case of ME-bola

Haha, funny.

I would not participate in a quarantine either. I don't follow Kaci because I can't stand ANY of this over hyped ebola coverage, so I can't speak about whether she is a media grabber or obnoxious. What I do know is that ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear. There is absolutely no benefit to staying quarantined other than playing into media and public fears. Oh, I should stay home for three weeks to... make other people feel safe? why? It's illogical.

This disease does deserve coverage in the context of humanitarian aid to AFRICA where it is actually killing people. Instead our conversation is focused on the handful of infected people in America and people who MIGHT have ebola. If we're going to be self centered, can we at least as a nation pay attention to the diseases that are known threats here, are much more communicable, and have killed many Americans?

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states#tab-humanitarian-response

We certainly don't give the highest percentage of our GNI but we are still the leading donor of official humanitarian assistance in 2013. Tell me what nation isn't somewhat self centered and to survive don't we need to be to some extent? Is there any country who is 100% altruistic? I mean what is your philosophy in terms of volunteering and charity? We give what we can and help as much as we can but we do put our family first and then our concern for others comes next. Is that wrong?

We are lacking in many areas and yes goodness knows we can do much better BUT people who live here and people who don't live here love criticizing our country. Instead of criticizing why don't you take the action you want to see and perhaps our country and government can learn from the people.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

To clarify, I would follow the CDC guidelines for self monitoring and quarantine. These are based on scientific evidence from studies of a well known virus, rather than the hot air of politicians pandering to an uninformed public in an election year.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

Heard a funny tweet today about this - someone said that her selfish actions have demonstrated that she's clearly contracted a horrible case of ME-bola

Haha, funny.

I would not participate in a quarantine either. I don't follow Kaci because I can't stand ANY of this over hyped ebola coverage, so I can't speak about whether she is a media grabber or obnoxious. What I do know is that ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear. There is absolutely no benefit to staying quarantined other than playing into media and public fears. Oh, I should stay home for three weeks to... make other people feel safe? why? It's illogical.

This disease does deserve coverage in the context of humanitarian aid to AFRICA where it is actually killing people. Instead our conversation is focused on the handful of infected people in America and people who MIGHT have ebola. If we're going to be self centered, can we at least as a nation pay attention to the diseases that are known threats here, are much more communicable, and have killed many Americans?

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states#tab-humanitarian-response

We certainly don't give the highest percentage of our GNI but we are still the leading donor of official humanitarian assistance in 2013. Tell me what nation isn't somewhat self centered and to survive don't we need to be to some extent? Is there any country who is 100% altruistic? I mean what is your philosophy in terms of volunteering and charity? We give what we can and help as much as we can but we do put our family first and then our concern for others comes next. Is that wrong?

We are lacking in many areas and yes goodness knows we can do much better BUT people who live here and people who don't live here love criticizing our country. Instead of criticizing why don't you take the action you want to see and perhaps our country and government can learn from the people.

The people volunteering and donating money, reading scientific articles about this disease and gathering information, are not the same people who are furiously shouting (or typing) for closed borders and freaking out because a woman who is NOT sick goes on a bike ride. I'm not attacking Americans as a whole, I'm criticizing the media and its 24 hour news cycle that feeds this illogical overreaction and the individuals who choose to get frenzied without educating themselves using real scientific evidence instead of Huffington Post articles.

I am not saying that ALL concern about ebola in America is a bad thing. I am saying that we have much more real concerns here with the flu, enterovirus, whooping cough, yet people are freaking out about ebola because of the continuous feedback loop of the media which only covers this because it gets clicks.

 

[missy]

I do agree with what you wrote above Guilty. The media is out of control and well our government can do things more efficiently than they do but we also have to take personal responsibility and IMO this nurse has behaved irresponsibly at best. She doesn't get to decide which rules she will and won't follow. She is some piece of work IMO and the fact that she is getting ready to sue just goes to prove it. I am so sick of our sue crazy nation.

 

[lyra]

Canada is NOT receiving all the hyped ebola reporting. I have to hunt it down online to find it. That's why I'd never seen a Kaci interview. So yesterday I turned on CNN for comparison. It was crazy, IMO. Not the style or content of "news" I'm used to at all. It was mostly about ebola, and Kaci in particular. We rarely ever watch CNN. It's too focused on sensationalism and politics IMO. We watch Canadian news during the daytime. It gets repetitive, but it gives a more extensive world view, and obviously more Canadian only news. Ebola is not on the Canadian news for the most part. That's probably part of the reason why the US gets more criticism from outsiders. We only really get CNN, or regional nearby US news (Buffalo, and KTLA). Just putting that out there.

 

[momhappy]

It's interesting because most people I know are not "freaking out" over Ebola I don't know of a single person who's altered their life in any way, shape, or form as a result of ebola. People are still traveling, working, and carrying about their daily lives. It's all over the media because that's how the media works. On any given day, Kim Kardashian could be all over the media, but it just so happens that right now, it's ebola. Most people that I know are concerned about ebola, much like they are every potentially life-threatening virus, disease, etc. It's not like we're all running around like a bunch of crazy people, stockpiling supplies for the zombie apocalypse It's ebola, it's new here, it's potentially life-threatening - I think a certain amount of coverage, a certain amount of fear, etc. is warranted.
As far as the quarantine period, this is one of those better-safe-than-sorry situations IMO and again, we are learning as we go here, so while some of it might not make sense now, I would assume that it will at some point. There should be guidelines that everyone follows (and right now, those guidelines outline a 21 day quarantine). The part that many of us have an issue with is why this nurse thinks she so darn special? Her line of reasoning is a load of crap and she's no better than the media machine that's promoting her….

 

[kenny]

American media is no longer about news or even about what matters most.
It's about maximizing eyeballs looking at their ads to maximize their profits.

Someday Canadian news outlets will get greedy too.
When they do they'll sink down to the level of American "news".

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Again,

News Flash--

Maine judge denies the states request to force the nurse into a mandatory quarantine. She is allowed to freely come and go. The judge just said to monitor her temperature.

Last nite I tried to find Ebola news and couldn't. The capture of a Penn criminal was the story of the evening. I also just talked to a friend that returned from Switzerland and Italy. She said there was no coverage of Ebola. My answer is that so far these countries have not been affected.

I'm going to maintain this episode is a learning experience to see how we would handle any epidemic. Even if it fades away. we should be better prepared for the possible next one. Its too early to give a grade on how we performed, but I am happy to say, like Mom happy that I see no panic where I live.

MZ's point - Do Africans have to adhere to a quarantine or will that go out the window.?

Annette

 

[lyra]

American media is no longer about news or even about what matters most.
It's about maximizing eyeballs looking at their ads to maximize their profits.

Someday Canadian news outlets will get greedy too.
When they do they'll sink down to the level of American "news".

I strongly disagree, but you know, Canadians vary.

 

[kenny]

American media is no longer about news or even about what matters most.
It's about maximizing eyeballs looking at their ads to maximize their profits.

Someday Canadian news outlets will get greedy too.
When they do they'll sink down to the level of American "news".

I strongly disagree, but you know, Canadians vary.

No they don't.
Canadians are all good people.

 

[Calliecake]

It's interesting because most people I know are not "freaking out" over Ebola I don't know of a single person who's altered their life in any way, shape, or form as a result of ebola. People are still traveling, working, and carrying about their daily lives. It's all over the media because that's how the media works. On any given day, Kim Kardashian could be all over the media, but it just so happens that right now, it's ebola. Most people that I know are concerned about ebola, much like they are every potentially life-threatening virus, disease, etc. It's not like we're all running around like a bunch of crazy people, stockpiling supplies for the zombie apocalypse It's ebola, it's new here, it's potentially life-threatening - I think a certain amount of coverage, a certain amount of fear, etc. is warranted.
As far as the quarantine period, this is one of those better-safe-than-sorry situations IMO and again, we are learning as we go here, so while some of it might not make sense now, I would assume that it will at some point. There should be guidelines that everyone follows (and right now, those guidelines outline a 21 day quarantine). The part that many of us have an issue with is why this nurse thinks she so darn special? Her line of reasoning is a load of crap and she's no better than the media machine that's promoting her….

I couldn't agree more with Momhappy's post. As far the news media goes, the news is often sensationalized here in Chicago. Are people in Chicago concerned about Ebola? Absolutely. Are the running around like crazy people? No. On a side note, the new stations in Chicago can make an average snowstorm seem like the end of the world.

 

[zoebartlett]

I would not participate in a quarantine either. I don't follow Kaci because I can't stand ANY of this over hyped ebola coverage, so I can't speak about whether she is a media grabber or obnoxious. What I do know is that ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear. There is absolutely no benefit to staying quarantined other than playing into media and public fears. Oh, I should stay home for three weeks to... make other people feel safe? why? It's illogical.

This disease does deserve coverage in the context of humanitarian aid to AFRICA where it is actually killing people. Instead our conversation is focused on the handful of infected people in America and people who MIGHT have ebola. If we're going to be self centered, can we at least as a nation pay attention to the diseases that are known threats here, are much more communicable, and have killed many Americans?

I love watching the coverage because this fascinates me, for some reason. I really don't understand why people think Kaci's so obnoxious. Why? Because she chose to go for a bike ride? I totally agree that if she stayed quarantined, it would be playing into people's fears. The governor gave an interview the other night and he's the one who sounds obnoxious, saying he wouldn't want her to be within 3 feet from anyone.

 

[zoebartlett]

To clarify, I would follow the CDC guidelines for self monitoring and quarantine. These are based on scientific evidence from studies of a well known virus, rather than the hot air of politicians pandering to an uninformed public in an election year.

Yup.

As for coverage, CNN has been covering it, and I think they've done a great job of not over-hyping it. Funny, Lyra, I don't think they're sensationalizing their coverage.

 

[missy]

Here's an article from WebMD supporting the fact that Americans are not hysterical or even overly concerned about catching Ebola. Interesting to see the different perspectives of healthcare workers vs non health care workers regarding Ebola concerns.

http://www.webmd.com/news/20141031/survey-reveals-concerns-over-ebola

Oct. 31, 2014 -- When it comes to Ebola, most Americans say they’re not worried about catching the disease, but they are concerned about the possibility of health care workers who have treated sick patients spreading the virus here.

Most also support quarantines for people arriving in the U.S. from affected countries, according to the WebMD/Medscape Ebola Survey.

Nearly 80% of people who answered the online survey said they were concerned about the infection risk posed by doctors and nurses who have cared for Ebola patients, while 57% said they thought it was reasonable to quarantine travelers arriving from Sierra Leone, Guinea, and Liberia until they are certain to be free of the disease.

“The Ebola risk to the general public is very low, and most people seem to be aware of that,” says Michael W. Smith, MD, WebMD chief medical editor. But, he said, Ebola cases in several health care workers who have returned to the U.S. have raised public concerns. The majority of doctors who answered the survey -- 56% -- also support quarantines for people who have recently been to West Africa.


Little Hysteria Over Ebola

At the same time, however, 70% of Americans said they were not worried about catching Ebola. Only 8% of people claim they are “very worried” about their own infection risk.

And while a majority of people felt that they had enough information to protect themselves from the virus, 45% said they didn’t feel educated enough about the illness to stay safe.

For doctors and nurses though, it was a different story. About half, 49%, said they were worried about becoming infected at work. But a majority -- 63% -- also felt that their practice, clinic, or hospital was prepared to treat a patient with Ebola symptoms.

They weren’t as confident when it comes to the nation’s public health system. “I was surprised to see that 55% of health care professionals feel the country isn’t prepared to respond to an Ebola outbreak,” Smith says. “A large-scale infection outbreak isn’t something most health professionals have ever dealt with. Even though it’s highly unlikely, I’m confident that should the need ever arise, our public health system would spring into action to do everything possible to stop it in its tracks. Thankfully, we’re not there.”

The WebMD survey included responses from 1,280 adults around the U.S. Nearly 60% who answered the questions were parents. About half were over age 55. Three-fourths of participants were women, and about half reported having a college degree or higher level of education.

Nearly 60% of those surveyed said they felt that the U.S. government has not done enough to help countries affected by Ebola.


Travel Fears
International travel is a concern for many, at least for now.

Nearly 90% said they would be reluctant to fly to any of the affected countries, and 76% said they’d steer clear of the entire African continent, despite the fact that the disease is only affecting a handful of countries there.

Half said they wouldn’t want to travel outside the U.S. at all right now.

Survey takers were also largely supportive of measures to screen international travelers.

84% said it’s reasonable to screen arriving passengers for symptoms
69% were in favor of stopping flights from affected areas
57% thought it would be OK to allow flights from affected areas, but supported quarantines for visitors until they could be proven to be free of the disease.
When it comes to public health threats, nearly the same number of people -- 38% vs. 37% -- thought Ebola was as big a threat as the flu. Twenty-eight percent ranked enterovirus D68 as a high risk to public health, while 20% saw MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome) in that same light.

And here is the perspective of an MD who agrees that quarantine of healthcare workers is a smart idea if only for the fact that it is difficult as a healthcare worker to be objective about your own symptoms.

http://blogs.webmd.com/breaking-news/2014/10/ebola-and-health-care-workers-quarantine-or-not.html?ecd=wnl_nal_103114&ctr=wnl-nal-103114_ld-stry_2&mb=ZZoweYZzKR4iNhKweMhNQOHnVev1imbCBDNSJ%2f4NlQU%3d

By Hansa Bhargava, MD
WebMD Pediatrician and Medical Editor

Should doctors and nurses be quarantined upon returning home after treating Ebola patients in West Africa?

Before we try to answer that question, let’s take a step back. The current Ebola crisis is probably one of the worst health crises in history. The death toll may be close to 5,000, and the countries affected in West Africa need help from health care workers on the ground.

As a physician, I applaud the selfless doctors and nurses that have been taking care of people in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea. They are key to stopping this virus from spreading worldwide and helping sick patients recover.

But what should health care workers do when they come back here? Will they be objective enough to self-report if they do have a fever or feel ill during the 21-day period in which Ebola symptoms could develop? Or should other health workers step in to help monitor them?

Opinions vary, even among the health care workers themselves. Here is my take on the matter.

Doctors and nurses often joke they make the worst patients. Why? We may not see our own symptoms through a clear lens. We want to believe that we, or our loved ones, are generally healthy.

As a pediatrician, I’ve done this with my own kids. I once ignored my son’s sore throat for several days, thinking it was just a virus and would go away on its own. It turned out to be strep throat. He needed medicine.

I promise you that for my patients in the office, I am objective and usually right on about diagnosing strep throat. I felt terrible for my son, and realized that my emotional investment in my child could influence my ability to see the right diagnosis. I wanted to believe the best-case scenario. I wanted him to be healthy.

Now imagine working with Ebola in devastating circumstances. The stress of treating very ill patients in another country, as well as the trauma of seeing many of them die, could very well influence your emotions. Once you’re home, you might just want to get back to normal and put all thoughts of Ebola out of your mind.

So what if you did start to feel “off”? One scenario could be that after seeing the ravages of Ebola, it could be hard to admit to yourself that you may have been exposed to Ebola and possibly even have it.

In circumstances where we, the doctors or nurses, might be the sick ones, I think we should steer away from the saying, “Doctor, heal thyself.” Whether it is just a sore throat or possible exposure to Ebola, an objective view is paramount.

So although I don’t agree with long-term quarantine in an airport, I do think that keeping returning health care workers exposed to Ebola in the home or a health facility can be beneficial. Policies are made to address scenarios that can become dangerous, and monitoring can catch symptoms early.

Monitoring by health care workers is often used for the management of other contagious diseases such as tuberculosis. You don’t always need a second opinion, but many times someone with a clearer and more objective view can help make the right diagnosis quickly and help with getting treatment early.

This can ultimately benefit the returning health care workers by getting them treatment faster, if it’s needed. It will also protect and reassure everyone else.

 

[lyra]

As for coverage, CNN has been covering it, and I think they've done a great job of not over-hyping it. Funny, Lyra, I don't think they're sensationalizing their coverage.

It's interesting Zoe. Maybe it comes from watching a lifetime of low key news reporting on the CBC. That's what we watch for news. It's very basic and not flashy or loud. CNN seemed to be loud to me. Like a heightened sense of urgency in the anchor's voices maybe? Maybe they do talk louder? I don't know.

No one I know is talking about, or worried about ebola. We've only talked about the hype we see online. I do wish there would be more coverage out of Africa that was reporting on the successes happening there. All the aid and workers are helping to curb the deaths. I think the focus should be on stopping the disease in Africa and developing a cure/vaccine for those people most affected. Hope that happens soon.

 

[Autumnovember]

I'm disappointed in her behavior. As a health care professional, she should know better. And as a health care worker myself, I am definitely concerned about Ebola. No chance at all that I would not abide by a quarantine if I was asked to do it.

 

[zoebartlett]

I'm happy for Kaci that a judge agreed with her.

 

[Calliecake]

I'm very disappointed in the judge's decision. I think she is an extremely self centered arrogant person.

 

[kenny]

Fast forward to 2:35 to see Nurse Kaci parodied on SNL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RjKj4ix138

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

This morning CNBC did an interview with the President of Tenet Health Care. They have 4 hospitals in the Dallas area and he spoke about the many meetings that they held when the Ebola virus spread to the nurses. He said he thought the country is better prepared to deal with this type of crisis now that they have had to gear up. Tenets hospitals all practiced the protocols and they stockpiled emergency supplies and geAR. He admitted they were very worried. Oh, they even did a secret shopper exercise to see how their admissions policies stood up. I loved the secret shopper idea.

I felt re-assured that this company was taking the situation very seriously.


Annette

 

[zoebartlett]

Someone, maybe TooPatient, mentioned not buying that symptoms appear quickly. According to the WHO, the article below mentions "sudden onset" of symptoms.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Snippet: "The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms is 2 to 21 days. Humans are not infectious until they develop symptoms. First symptoms are the sudden onset of fever fatigue, muscle pain, headache and sore throat. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, symptoms of impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding (e.g. oozing from the gums, blood in the stools). Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts and elevated liver enzymes."

If anyone was in WA treating patients with Ebola and then didn't develop symptoms, they should be free to live their life as usual. Maybe they'd take certain precautions within the 21 day period, such as not being intimate with their partner, for example. Let's say that person eventually develops symptoms such a fever, maybe GI issues. It's at that point that the person should be in quarantine. You'd know when symptoms appear, and no one would just ignore them and go about their day. By that point, you'd be on your way to the hospital. I don't think people are loosey-goosey with this disease, as many people think. I'm thinking of Dr. Spencer, specifically. If he was not showing symptoms, he was not infectious.

 

[packrat]

So, if you're not contagious until you develop symptoms and symptoms are sudden onset, the devil may care attitude of oh I can go to the mall b/c I don't have symptoms...um, if you suddenly develop symptoms, doesn't that mean you're now contagious to everyone in the vicinity? I just don't get the mindset of who gives a crap, I can do what I want.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

This is the way it was explained on a TV show. The virus grows slowly. It may be in the body and not show up on an ebola test until the body is overwhelmed by this virus at which time symptoms appear. So it may be in hiding, but will not show up on the tests we have. Its too early to know what is what.

There are 357 people being monitored in NY. I thought that was a lot. We have one in Chicago. He is a photographer, 23 yrs old, and he had no problem being in voluntary quarantine. I suspect we will have more cases here, but I do think we are better prepared.

Everyones body is different and, I think we still should ere on the side of caution.

Annette

Oh, they are going to test many vaccines simultaneously, We are moving along.

 

[distracts]

I understand that most people quarantined aren't sick and that with proper self-monitoring they could go about their daily lives and even if they were sick, would figure it out before they were contagious. BUT that relies on people actually doing what they're supposed to, when they're supposed to. And I don't have that much faith in people.

 

[TooPatient]

Saw an article earlier today that was interesting. A guy was taking a device from Utah to NYC that may be able to identify Ebola sooner.

LINK

Early detection would be a huge help. It may only become contagious at the "onset of symptoms" but I still have to wonder exactly when that is. One of the symptoms they watch for is fatigue. If that is a symptom, is a person contagious at that point? Also, if a person becomes contagious at the onset of fever then what counts as fever? If DH has a temperature of 98.8, that is abnormally high for him (by a non-trivial amount) and I know there is a problem. If I am at 98.8 I am just fine and maybe even a smidge cooler than usual.

I guess what I am trying to say is that each person is different. I don't think enough is known about this virus to be able to find a single set of guidelines for the exact moment a person becomes contagious. (and as Packrat mentioned, I'd much rather a person be at home at that one special moment where they become contagious than out with a bunch of people!)

 

[zoebartlett]

So, if you're not contagious until you develop symptoms and symptoms are sudden onset, the devil may care attitude of oh I can go to the mall b/c I don't have symptoms...um, if you suddenly develop symptoms, doesn't that mean you're now contagious to everyone in the vicinity? I just don't get the mindset of who gives a crap, I can do what I want.

I would say not necessarily.

From the World Health Organization:

"Infection occurs from direct contact through broken skin or mucous membranes with the blood, or other bodily fluids or secretions (stool, urine, saliva, semen) of infected people. Infection can also occur if broken skin or mucous membranes of a healthy person come into contact with environments that have become contaminated with an Ebola patient’s infectious fluids such as soiled clothing, bed linen, or used needles."

I do think it's good to be cautious so if I had traveled from WA and it was still within the 21 day period, I'd probably stay close to home. I would be sensitive to people's fears. I would not, however, want to be treated like I had done something wrong if I went to the store or wanted to go for a bike ride, for example. So it's not a matter of "screw other people, I don't give a sh*t about them," it's more a matter of, "I'm monitoring my temperature, I haven't developed symptoms, and I want to go out for a bit. I will be sensitive to the knowledge that others might be scared. If I do develop symptoms, I know who to call and what the next steps would be." That's pretty much how Kaci Hickox felt, judging from what I've read and seen on the news. She is a medical professional. She knows the disease, how it's spread, and what precautions to take.

I'm not in the medical field but I trust the information I've learned from those who are.