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Ebola arrives in America tomorrow on a fancy private jet

Do you support Ebola-infected people coming home?

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 4 5.8%
  • No

    Votes: 36 52.2%
  • Yes

    Votes: 29 42.0%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .

Trekkie

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OVincze|1414129260|3771984 said:
Unbelievable. This is really scary. I do not think people were overreacting before and yes now as Kenny stated since people usually have no close contact with each other in NYC... no reason to panic, right? They are not even quarantining the cab driver? Come on, this guy could have sneezed on him, even when he breathed he could have droplets coming out of his mouth and all over the taxi even if not on the driver, then the driver can touch those surfaces and his face. He touched things on the subway too, maybe they do not want to disinfect the subway system but they could identify which car he travelled in, his route down and up, etc. Also, absolutely true that these folks returning from Africa, especially those who treated Ebola patients should be quarantined, it seems prudent and not sure why they are not seeing that. We hear even less in the media here in Europe. It is true that there is less panic here because of that but at the same time we are even less informed. That is not a good thing. There were three deaths in Germany if I am correct and I work in the neighboring country, which is only a few hours away. This New York case seems really bad and it seems that they cannot control the situation. With no quarantine in place for people arriving from Africa and not cleaning up the subway, not alarming people who rode there is bound to cause more cases. Let's hope that is not the case but I also hoped before that now it is over in Western countries, that was not the case.

I agree that people should be quarantined, but there are 55 countries in Africa. Only three currently have confirmed outbreaks of Ebola. It's impossible to quarantine all Africans travelling to and from the US. Currently Americans are at greater risk of an Ebola outbreak than I am in South Africa, but it would be silly to quarantine all Americans coming to South Africa, wouldn't it? :)

***steps off soapbox*** Sorry, but "Africa = Ebola" is one of my bugbears. :)

Having said that, I agree that it is lunacy not to quarantine medical personnel returning to the US after treating Ebola patients.

Why was this idiot not in quarantine? He was feeling sluggish so he went bowling? HE TOOK THE SUBWAY? WTF is wrong with him?
 

zoebartlett

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kenny|1414112663|3771880 said:
Test results are in.

The doctor, now in NYC's Bellevue Hospital, who treated Ebola patients in West Africa does have Ebola.
His girlfriend is also in isolation now.

Nothing to worry about though.
Manhattan is not very densely populated, and people rarely are in close contact with each other. :wacko:

Now they have to do the detective work to identify, contact and follow all with whom he has had contact in recent days.

Why are we not quarantining these folks upon arrival in America? :doh: :nono:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

But Kenny, you have to come into direct contact with the sick person's bodily fluids to become infected with the virus. It's not airborne like the flu.
 

Trekkie

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Zoe|1414141777|3771999 said:
kenny|1414112663|3771880 said:
Test results are in.

The doctor, now in NYC's Bellevue Hospital, who treated Ebola patients in West Africa does have Ebola.
His girlfriend is also in isolation now.

Nothing to worry about though.
Manhattan is not very densely populated, and people rarely are in close contact with each other. :wacko:

Now they have to do the detective work to identify, contact and follow all with whom he has had contact in recent days.

Why are we not quarantining these folks upon arrival in America? :doh: :nono:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/23/health/new-york-possible-ebola-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

But Kenny, you have to come into direct contact with the sick person's bodily fluids to become infected with the virus.

Something which is not impossible, as is evident from the fact that so many people are contracting the virus...
 

missy

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Not surprising to me at all. Dr. Spencer supposedly self monitored himself and did all those activities-riding the subway, walking the high line and bowling before he started showing symptoms so supposedly not contagious at that time.

This goes to show exactly what I was discussing a few posts ago. I don't think self monitoring is enough. I think everyone traveling from Ebola affected regions actually needs to be physically quarantined until deemed safe enough to return to the general population.

JMO of course but just as earlier in the thread when I stated the real threat is not in bringing people infected with Ebola to the US for treatment because it is under controlled and safe conditions. Instead the very real threat/danger are people traveling via commercial airplane or however who don't know (or care enough about other people becoming infected) they have Ebola.

Bellevue has an Ebola unit so we shall see how that goes and if hopefully everyone does everything correctly no one else at the hospital will get infected. And hopefully no one else the doctor had contact with while on the subway, walking the high line and bowling will come down with the disease. Time will tell and the world is waiting and watching.
 

Trekkie

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missy|1414143687|3772001 said:
Not surprising to me at all. Dr. Spencer supposedly self monitored himself and did all those activities-riding the subway, walking the high line and bowling before he started showing symptoms so supposedly not contagious at that time.

This goes to show exactly what I was discussing a few posts ago. I don't think self monitoring is enough. I think everyone traveling from Ebola affected regions actually needs to be physically quarantined until deemed safe enough to return to the general population.

JMO of course but just as earlier in the thread when I stated the real threat is not in bringing people infected with Ebola to the US for treatment because it is under controlled and safe conditions. Instead the very real threat/danger are people traveling via commercial airplane or however who don't know (or care enough about other people becoming infected) they have Ebola.

Bellevue has an Ebola unit so we shall see how that goes and if hopefully everyone does everything correctly no one else at the hospital will get infected. And hopefully no one else the doctor had contact with while on the subway, walking the high line and bowling will come down with the disease. Time will tell and the world is waiting and watching.

I couldn't agree more.
 

Calliecake

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missy|1414143687|3772001 said:
Not surprising to me at all. Dr. Spencer supposedly self monitored himself and did all those activities-riding the subway, walking the high line and bowling before he started showing symptoms so supposedly not contagious at that time.

This goes to show exactly what I was discussing a few posts ago. I don't think self monitoring is enough. I think everyone traveling from Ebola affected regions actually needs to be physically quarantined until deemed safe enough to return to the general population.

JMO of course but just as earlier in the thread when I stated the real threat is not in bringing people infected with Ebola to the US for treatment because it is under controlled and safe conditions. Instead the very real threat/danger are people traveling via commercial airplane or however who don't know (or care enough about other people becoming infected) they have Ebola.

Bellevue has an Ebola unit so we shall see how that goes and if hopefully everyone does everything correctly no one else at the hospital will get infected. And hopefully no one else the doctor had contact with while on the subway, walking the high line and bowling will come down with the disease. Time will tell and the world is waiting and watching.


+1000

Great post Missy
 

Calliecake

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Finally some really good news. Nurse Nina Pham is being released from the hospital today. She is on a news conference as I type this,
 

kenny

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Zoe|1414141777|3771999 said:
But Kenny, you have to come into direct contact with the sick person's bodily fluids to become infected with the virus. It's not airborne like the flu.

I know.

Do you know what projectile vomit is, how 'bout projectile diarrhea?
I realize people are not contagious before they have symptoms, but there is a point at which they DO have the symptoms.
When that happens they should already be in a controlled environment surrounded with care-givers in protective garments.

Do you want a person developing symptoms sitting across from you on the subway train?

Here's a common sneeze.
Can you imagine a shower of projectile vomit coming towards you in a subway car, elevator, or the person behind you in the line at McDonald's?
Not convinced?
Then imagine the same shower of projectile vomit coming towards your children. (that always gets 'em)

More importantly, much more importantly is the math.
This is not about getting one more person sick.
Without quarantine, one person can infect many others, who each can infect many others .... etc.

Even this fricking DOCTOR who treated Ebola victims went out and about.
Unbelievable!
Even though he had been feeling 'sluggish' for days he still got into a subway car, went bowling, took a taxi home IN fricking NYC!!!

If we can't trust an Ebola doctor to self-isolate, we clearly can't trust the general public to do so.

Look, I realize it's not nice to 'lock up' a person against their will.
But allowing ticking time bombs to roam freely among us is not nice to the other 319 million Americans, speaking for only one country.

screen_shot_2014-10-24_at_10.png
 

kenny

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missy|1414143687|3772001 said:
Dr. Spencer supposedly self monitored himself and did all those activities-riding the subway, walking the high line and bowling before he started showing symptoms so supposedly not contagious at that time.

He reported feeling 'sluggish' for days.
Being a doctor who a week ago was treating Ebola patience you'd think ... oh never mind.

If this 'sluggishness' might be an earlier indicator of impending symptoms, then it itself is a symptom.
Hope this gets some attention.
I think mandatory quarantine is coming but in the meantime perhaps they should recommend possible-carriers monitor themselves for this sluggishness and report to a hospital before the other symptoms develop.
 

kenny

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Some good news.

"Paul Allen, billionaire owner of sports teams and mega yachts, on Thursday pledged at least $100 million to fight Ebola in what is believed to be the largest private foundation gift to combat the deadly disease and support healthcare workers in West Africa.

The co-founder of Microsoft — who regularly inhabits lists of the richest and most generous Americans — has already donated an estimated $26.5 million toward his pledge, including $12.9 million to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, $3.6 million to UNICEF, $2.8 million to the International Red Cross and $1.3 million to Doctors Without Borders."


The rest of the story: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-paul-allen-gift-20141023-story.html
 

Sunstorm

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Totally agree Kenny and great post Missy too. Great news about the donation!

Now what Kenny said, imagine a person who is sluggish which I have already been thinking that to me it sounds like a symptom, seriously who knows that these people are not contagious when they are sluggish? Then think that this person does not even need to vomit on you, sneeze on you or hmm have diarrhea all over the subway but it is plenty enough that this person sneezes then has droplets on his hands, touches the rails and doorknobs, walls, who knows what else which are then touched by who knows how many hundreds who may then touch their faces... ok many may not get sick, maybe it is not a high enough concentration of the virus but we do know it spreads from surfaces, some will get sick who do not know it, ride the subways and continue doing the same, it appears to be a vicious circle.

Maybe I have Fearbola, I am not even in the US now but I do not have a good feeling about this whole thing. If a doctor treating ebola patients can act so stupid and did not self quarantine, what do we expect from others who are far less educated? Eventually not everyone's history can be followed if there are more than a handful of people with ebola, I do not think the system can handle that and then if many who had direct or indirect but potentially dangerous contact with those sick will not quarantine themselves or be forced to do so , it can easily become like the black death. After a while where would they treat all these patients, is there enough space, is the health care system prepared to handle this? Let's just really really hope that it stops here because otherwise it could get really ugly for everyone and not just American citizens. Of course people from Africa and the US travel to Europe too and we have had deaths here as well. I do not even know if we have or have used the experimental drugs.
 

kenny

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This is a very gross scene from "Bad Grandpa" about PD.

Only the gradpa (played by "Jackass's" Jonny Knoxville) and kid are actors.
All others are unknowing innocent members of the public caught on film ... ala Candid Camera.

The film is hilarious if you have the sense of humor for over-the-top-tacky-practical-jokes ... this scene is probably the worst in the film.
Certainly not a film for everyone.

But when it comes to why we don't want people with infectious and contagious Ebola PD walking around, this is an illuminating and memorable 92 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOOAI55WERQ&spfreload=10
 

kenny

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Finally, some mandatory quarantine ... :clap:

Kudos to Cuomo and Christie for having some balls.

"Faced with New York’s first Ebola patient, the governors of New York and New Jersey on Friday announced a mandatory 21-day quarantine for anyone traveling from three West African nations who had direct contact with an Ebola patient.

In a joint news conference, New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said the required isolation will include healthcare workers who treated patients afflicted with the virus in Liberia, Sierra Leone or Guinea.

The two officials also announced stepped-up procedures at New York-area airports, where public health officials will now have real-time access to screening of incoming passengers and will be authorized to order hospitalization, quarantine or other interventions for up to 21 days.

"This is too serious a situation to leave it to the honor system of compliance", Cuomo said at the news conference."


The rest of the story: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-new-york-ebola-20141024-story.html#page=1
 

missy

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junebug17

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I commend these governors for finally taking some action - should have been the president.
 

zoebartlett

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I heard on CNN the other night that the first sign of ebola is a high fever, and when Dr. Spencer took his temp (as he had been doing 2x per day) and it was high, maybe 103 (?), that's when he called for help. Maybe the expert who said that the first sign of ebola is a high fever was wrong. All I know is that I constantly hear doctors on the news trying to relay the same message over and over again, that the general population should not worry about contracting ebola. They're saying that because there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding. If I'm wrong and missed something, I'm fine if someone points that out. I just don't get the hysteria out there.

By the way, I'm not saying that quarantining is a bad idea. I do think it's for the best.
 

kenny

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Zoe|1414257461|3772525 said:
I heard on CNN the other night that the first sign of ebola is a high fever, and when Dr. Spencer took his temp (as he had been doing 2x per day) and it was high, maybe 103 (?), that's when he called for help. Maybe the expert who said that the first sign of ebola is a high fever was wrong. All I know is that I constantly hear doctors on the news trying to relay the same message over and over again, that the general population should not worry about contracting ebola. They're saying that because there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding. If I'm wrong and missed something, I'm fine if someone points that out. I just don't get the hysteria out there.

By the way, I'm not saying that quarantining is a bad idea. I do think it's for the best.


FWIW, 103 was first reported by media ... then they published that 103 was a typo and Dr Spencer had actually reported his fever was, 100.3.

But yes, if fatigue shows up a couple days before the fever everyone knowing that would be a godsend.
It would give people time to get to a hospital before their body starts doing all that stuff that can spread it, like vomit, bleeding, and diarrhea.
While that's good for public health, getting medical intervention early may increase their own odds of survival.
 

Calliecake

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Can someone please explain why we are sending people who may of ćome in contact with Ebola to the five heaviest traffic airports we have in the US. Would it not make more sense to have them sent to a much less populated area and put into quarantine.
 

ruby59

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I believe I read that it is because 94% of the 150 people who travel daily from West Africa come through one of those 5 airports.
 

kenny

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So, we have already heard from the first mandatorily-quarantined person and she is not happy.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/25/health/us-ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Here is her op-ed piece: http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece

She says she has tested negative for Ebola, so doesn't see why she must remain in quarantine for 21 days ... as if testing negative today means it is a known fact that she will never test positive if the virus is now incubating in her.

Hence the question of the day: does a person only test positive for Ebola after symptoms show up?
Anyone know?
If the answer is yes then her testing negative holds no weight in her argument that testing neg means she should not be quarantined.

Does the Ebola test look for the virus or antibodies to the virus?
 

Asscherhalo_lover

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I live near metro NY and actually work just a few miles away from "the bowling alley", I'm so relieved that they have set mandatory quarantine.
 

Sparklelu

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Just reopen Ellis Island and let them hang out there for 21days. Worked for my grandparents.
 

kenny

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ksinger

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Calliecake|1414262704|3772544 said:
Can someone please explain why we are sending people who may of ćome in contact with Ebola to the five heaviest traffic airports we have in the US. Would it not make more sense to have them sent to a much less populated area and put into quarantine.

No one is sending anyone anywhere. Flight schedules and destinations are not determined by who is on the flight.
 

Matata

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kenny|1414276019|3772625 said:
Hence the question of the day: does a person only test positive for Ebola after symptoms show up?
Anyone know?
If the answer is yes then her testing negative holds no weight in her argument that testing neg means she should not be quarantined.

Does the Ebola test look for the virus or antibodies to the virus?

Kenny, according to CDC, positive test occurs after symptoms show up http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-lab-guidance.pdf

Both the ELISA and PCR tests are used to test for the virus. PCR determines virus load; ELISA tests for antigens.
 

kenny

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Matata|1414286864|3772704 said:
kenny|1414276019|3772625 said:
Hence the question of the day: does a person only test positive for Ebola after symptoms show up?
Anyone know?
If the answer is yes then her testing negative holds no weight in her argument that testing neg means she should not be quarantined.

Does the Ebola test look for the virus or antibodies to the virus?

Kenny, according to CDC, positive test occurs after symptoms show up http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-lab-guidance.pdf

Both the ELISA and PCR tests are used to test for the virus. PCR determines virus load; ELISA tests for antigens.

So her argument that she now tests negative is not an argument for letting her out of quarantine.
Thanks.

I'll bet the majority of people who read her claim think she should be set free since she tested neg.
If true, the press should mention this important fact.
 

ponder

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So I'm now reading that a lot of foreign countries are dragging their heels in sending medical teams to west Africa until the US guarantees that these foreign medical personal will be transported to the US for treatment if they become infected. Hmmm...
 

packrat

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Well why the heck not? Why should anyone do anything to help other people unless the US is going to step in and be lord savior and protector?
 

TC1987

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Several Ohio people who were being monitored have been cleared, and the rest probably will be. I'm so glad that, so far, nobody else has come down with ebola from association with the healthcare workers. Whew!

I think that Kaci Hickox should have just gone to Maine, graciously said "You know, you're right. We Don't know a whole lot about ebola. I've reconsidered and I think it's prudent to stay in isolation for the 21 days." If I were a hiring manager, I would not hire her for nursing. Gov. Christie is not an expert on ebola, but neither is Ms. Kaci. :roll:
 

TooPatient

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TC1987|1415024272|3776730 said:
Several Ohio people who were being monitored have been cleared, and the rest probably will be. I'm so glad that, so far, nobody else has come down with ebola from association with the healthcare workers. Whew!

I think that Kaci Hickox should have just gone to Maine, graciously said "You know, you're right. We Don't know a whole lot about ebola. I've reconsidered and I think it's prudent to stay in isolation for the 21 days." If I were a hiring manager, I would not hire her for nursing. Gov. Christie is not an expert on ebola, but neither is Ms. Kaci. :roll:


Agreed!

Especially since the remainder of her quarantine was only something like 8 or 10 days. She was more than halfway there anyway!


So... At what point does a person "become contagious" and "need" to be quarantined? I have a hard time believing there is one moment for all patients where they go from carrying but not sick or contagious to instantly sick and contagious. Last I checked, life didn't have a bunch of switches to turn on and off.
What makes them so sure that the "sluggish" person is not contagious? Have they actually swabbed hundreds of people to check for signs of the virus in their saliva from the moment they were exposed to the moment they died? I've always thought of saliva as a bodily fluid (so a potential carrier for bacteria and virus) and that picture Kenny posted is a very good image of what people do when they sneeze :knockout:


Of course I am also the sort of person who stays home when I get the flu or anything else contagious. I feel better sooner if I stay in and rest.... Oh! And I think it is rude to show up sick and expose other people. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or overly paranoid :rolleyes: (rolly eyes directed to the people like the NYC doctor and nurse Kaci)
 
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