shape
carat
color
clarity

Whiteflash (and others ) Vs. Costco

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Hello Everyone!

Still have not bought the E-ring...but I am (hopefully ) about to!


I have been spending a lot of time looking at (mainly) WhiteFlash and I am wondering if anyone can tell me how one of their "A cut above" compare to a Costco diamond. Would the fire of ACA put a Costco ring to shame?

Depending on the answers I get, what would a Costco diamond be comparable to from a place like Whiteflash, James Aleen, GOG, etc?

I am asking this since I see an ~0.7 ct, ACA VS2 I at WF http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3222882.htm is about the same price as an already set ~.7ct VS2 I at costco.

Thank you in advance if anyone has any info. I am just not sure if Costco is a better value or not as nice of a rock or what... and the fact that costco does not have the numbers and pics listed like most other online stores makes it very hard to compare.

Thanks again!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,225
A couple questions about your intended.

Is she expecting an engagement or is the PROPOSAL (not the ring) a surprise?

What is her finger size.

What does she want in an engagement ring.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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most of the smaller Costco stones are graded by IGI lab.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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I honestly do not know what Costco carries these days but I believe the answer is very simple; an ACA will far outperform a Costco stone or a mall stone. Costco used to be a little better than many chain stores but still it would like comparing apples to oranges. If you want quality, definitely get the ACA. Cut affects beauty the most. To add, not seeing the clarity plots and if indeed IGI graded the Costco stone, it may be lower in color and clarity too and not equal at all in that regard either.
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Gypsy|1414038347|3771415 said:
A couple questions about your intended.

Is she expecting an engagement or is the PROPOSAL (not the ring) a surprise?

What is her finger size.

What does she want in an engagement ring.

Hi Gypsy,

...after this many years I am sure she is expecting it..eventually :dance: ...but the proposal will be a surprise!

Her finger size is a semi mystery... I have asked her to get measured many many times and it never has happened. I took some of her rings to a jewelry counter and I found out that she is somewhere around a seven...although that could be way off as the jewelry she had was not fitted (she does not usually wear a ring).

Since she does not really wear rings it is hard to say what she wants, but over the years I have observed that she likes classic, round (I think), solitaire, although side diamonds would not make her frown either. For a while she mentioned rose gold too...but I do not know if she is still in to that... I also know that she would just like a ring ...I think she would rather a CZ and a cruise than an expensive ring, but I am sure she would also love a nice proper diamond ring.

Sorry if that was too much info. :angel:
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
OVincze|1414095489|3771731 said:
I honestly do not know what Costco carries these days but I believe the answer is very simple; an ACA will far outperform a Costco stone or a mall stone. Costco used to be a little better than many chain stores but still it would like comparing apples to oranges. If you want quality, definitely get the ACA. Cut affects beauty the most. To add, not seeing the clarity plots and if indeed IGI graded the Costco stone, it may be lower in color and clarity too and not equal at all in that regard either.


Thank you Dancing Fire!

OVince, I have only seen Costco and mall stones in person. So would you say the difference of an ACA, Hearts and Arrows, Etc., would only be seen in a side by side comparison, or would it be so dramatic you could just tell the quality by viewing it alone :o .

Also, so far, the Costco rings have seemed nice to me. What would they be comparable to from an e-tailer ( I am wondering if for the same price I could get a larger same quality ring from an etailer vs costco :naughty: )?

Thank you!
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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Yes, I can tell the difference without side by side comparison right away. When I first saw true ideal cuts they seriously shot beams at me and my heart stopped. It was that strong of an effect and no I was not that experienced in diamonds at that time. They truly stood out, no comparison, I have never wanted anything else since then. I cannot even really like my diamonds from before anymore. But again this is really personal and many are just as happy with a Costco diamond, after all this is why they sell them. It does seem to me though that you are after both quality and value and if the two stones are the same price, even though the Costco one includes the setting, you can get a nice, simple solitaire setting from WF at a good price and you most likely get a diamond that is higher in color and clarity than the Costco one due to the different grading labs.

Perhaps you would have even left for a vacation or otherwise you could go down a bit in carat weight on the ACA, ideal cuts do always appear larger due to their cut and lack of light leakage. I have seen EGL (an infamous lab overgrading stones) graded so-called ideals and compared them to ideals I had side by side. My 42 point ideal looked significantly larger than the EGL graded 50 point so-called ideal because the EGL graded stone leaked light around the edges which made those diamonds appear much smaller than they actually were, so even though there was a definite difference in diameter, the EGL stone with a larger diameter looked smaller than the true ideal that actually had a smaller diameter.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Okay so the only reason I would advise buying from Costco is that they have a lifetime return policy as long as you do not get the ring worked on or sized.

I recommend them for guys who are proposing where they have not discussed marriage or there is a chance the lady will say no.

That said, WF has superior quality. STILL-- we HIGHLY recommend proposing during the return window of WF or any vendor. If you need a longer return period that WF offers we have vendors that do offer that.

As for what you should get her... what is your budget?
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
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Very good points Gypsy, I wondered why you would even consider Costco, not that I dislike it as a store, I liked it but not for diamonds. It does sound like OP's lady is expecting a ring already though which is a good thing but you are right that it is best to be cautious and proposing within the window for return. That would be quite possible though if OP got the diamond and the setting from the same vendor, no? OP, yes share your budget and required specs and Gypsy will help you with your search.
 

RockyRacoon

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Gypsy|1414098029|3771769 said:
Okay so the only reason I would advise buying from Costco is that they have a lifetime return policy as long as you do not get the ring worked on or sized.

To piggyback on this, the lifetime return policy is AWESOME.

However - their rings are a specific size (often size 7). If you girlfriend is not this exact size, you will need to get the ring re-sized and this will invalidate the warranty.

As you've already noted, the difference between a Whiteflash stone and the Costco option will only be a couple hundred bucks, a small price to pay for the peace of mind.

I'd put the couple extra hundred bucks into a Whiteflash stone/setting, with the knowledge that it is going to be a top-performing stone and that I have the capability to upgrade easily in the future.

Best of luck!
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
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OVincze|1414097416|3771761 said:
Yes, I can tell the difference without side by side comparison right away. When I first saw true ideal cuts they seriously shot beams at me and my heart stopped. It was that strong of an effect and no I was not that experienced in diamonds at that time. They truly stood out, no comparison, I have never wanted anything else since then. I cannot even really like my diamonds from before anymore. But again this is really personal and many are just as happy with a Costco diamond, after all this is why they sell them. It does seem to me though that you are after both quality and value and if the two stones are the same price, even though the Costco one includes the setting, you can get a nice, simple solitaire setting from WF at a good price and you most likely get a diamond that is higher in color and clarity than the Costco one due to the different grading labs.

Perhaps you would have even left for a vacation or otherwise you could go down a bit in carat weight on the ACA, ideal cuts do always appear larger due to their cut and lack of light leakage. I have seen EGL (an infamous lab overgrading stones) graded so-called ideals and compared them to ideals I had side by side. My 42 point ideal looked significantly larger than the EGL graded 50 point so-called ideal because the EGL graded stone leaked light around the edges which made those diamonds appear much smaller than they actually were, so even though there was a definite difference in diameter, the EGL stone with a larger diameter looked smaller than the true ideal that actually had a smaller diameter.


Wow! Heart stopping beauty! I didn't think it would be that dramatic! Thank you for he vivid description!

I also appreciate you letting me know about the 42 point ideal vs the 50 point EGL ideal. I have been worried about the size and I was unsure if I should go for less quality and bigger size, or the other way around. I hope that a .70 will look nice...I know she would not like anything gaudy, but it would be nice if she could see it without her glasses too.

Would you say that the top quality cuts at the major stores are all just as good (WhiteFlash's ACA vs GOG's Hearts and Arrows vs James Allen's True Hearts) or is one better than the other? I was wondering in case I like a setting (or its price) at one place versus another. Hopefully I am not opening a can of worms with that one....

Also, do you have any recommendations for quality and clarity? I would only be concerned with what can be seen to the naked eye so I was thinking H or better VS2 or better. Am I going to low with that or am I just about right?

Thank you again so much! PS If I do not check back in a while that is because my fiance to be just got back :whistle:

Thank you
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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40,225
Yeah, Costco has an unbeatable return policy on jewelry. They CAN get good GIA stones in as well, especially if you give them the 'cheat sheet" for rounds. And sometimes the answer to 'will you marry me' is "No," I'm sorry to say.

That said, outside of the return policy, there are vendors out there that have superior goods, specialize in jewelry, give you a lot more information regarding performance, and have great customer service... like WF, or BGD, or the other vendors we routinely recommend on here that are a better choice from a purely 'jewelry' perspective, especially for engagement rings.

But that's not to say that Costco doesn't have its place. There have some lovely bands there that I've wished I could buy in the past as well. Or earrings or pendants. And for earrings and pendants, lifetime return is like lifetime trade in :devil: including the settings.
 

Gypsy

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Daikon

Rough_Rock
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Nov 26, 2013
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Hello Everyone!

Thank you All so much for volunteering all this info. I will read that link right after I type this. In fact I need to type now while I can! My girlfriend just got back from being away a few days and I am just now able to jump back on this forum (I def. do not want her to catch me posting this :errrr: ! ) Also I apologize for any typos or wierd "autocorrects" that i don't catch since I am not on my computer and not using a regular keyboard.

About the budget, the cheaper the better :angel: but I was thinking around 3k...ish. I think if I go WF, I may pay around that just for the stone though... Honestly, she told me a while ago she would rather have an amazing adventure vacation versus an expensive ring so I don't want to get to carried away, but I love her and do want to get her something nice...

I'm not to worried about a no. I know she wants to get married, wishes I already asked, wants kids and so on.... I guess a return policy would come in handy if she did not like the setting or said she'd rather visit some other country for a while instead of having an expensive ring although I dont think that would happen and I'm sure she would love and cherish whatever I got her, even if it were from a gumball machine (although when we are old and grey I'm sure I would hear it then! :lol: )

The Costco idea came from always passing buy that sparkling counter (we go there semi often) and the fact that outside of cartier, they looked nicer than any mall shop I went to. Also, the 1 carrot looked nice but financially it's not in the cards...the 0.7s they had seemed nice as well (for some reason they only had .7 and 1st in solitary at my Costco)

Any advice would be apreciated! I can maybe bump up the budget a little bit if would make a big difference ( I have read before about pricing sweet spots around sizes) but I can't go to far.

I may not be able to check back in tonight, but I will definitely tomorrow. Gypsy and Everyone. Thank you! :D
 

RockyRacoon

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,315
Daikon|1414116913|3771907 said:
About the budget, the cheaper the better :angel: but I was thinking around 3k...ish. I think if I go WF, I may pay around that just for the stone though... Honestly, she told me a while ago she would rather have an amazing adventure vacation versus an expensive ring so I don't want to get to carried away, but I love her and do want to get her something nice...

Here is what I would do, if you wanted to go with Whiteflash:

.705ct, I, VS2
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3222882.htm

with this setting:
14k White Gold 6 Prong Solitaire Engagement Ring - $350
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/6-prong-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-582.htm

You'd be out the door at about $3,300 with a top-notch stone in a 14k gold setting. Mention a first-time customer discount or possible preferred customer discount that MIGHT bring it even closer to $3k (no guarantees).

That would definitely be a winner!
 

AprilBaby

Super_Ideal_Rock
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That would make an amazing ring!
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Hi Daikon

I look at Costco's jewelry most weeks. It is, as a previous poster mentioned, a standard size 7, so if your fiancee is not that size, and you re-size the ring - the return policy is invalid.

Also, Costco's prong work is, to put it briefly, terrible - very heavy and lumpy. I have also stood by their counters many times and compared my GOG signature stone with their stones - and the comparison is marked. Even without a stone on my hand, I can still see a muddiness to their stones - a lack of fire and life - that suggests far less than perfect cut and which would make me unwilling to buy one. Yes, they *can* get you a GIA stone - but I'm not sure who exactly would be in charge of that, and I suspect that asking for specific percentages and angles and facet lengths might be beyond the realm of what they offer.

So for my money, if it were a choice between Costco and ACA, I'd stay with White Flash and their ACA stones; you WILL see how fabulous it is when you have it in hand. However, I would consider a third option and take a look at Blue Nile; they have a huge selection, so you can find a stone with the specs you want, and you'll save some money while you're at it. I've attached a nice looking stone below.

And just to add - you would not be the first gentlemen to come to this site, telling us that his girlfriend would be happy with anything - and preferably nothing toooo expensive - only to find the error of his ways when the ring was offered to the lady in question. Be careful about taking those comments too literally - sometimes they're just your partner being generous, or trying to get their point across (as in - "I want to get engaged NOW - give me a ring pull and I'll be happy!") - when in reality they could be quite disappointed with something that doesn't fit their hopes for an engagement ring.

Happy hunting!

ETA For my money, I would look into *this* diamond - it's a little bigger, considerably whiter, definitely cheaper, and would leave you a little more room to get a nicer setting:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04688042
 

Stalecupcake

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
52
I've really liked the customer service of WF and Ritani online although I think WF has more of a diamond selection (obviously) while a Ritani has an amazing warranty. What's the Costco warranty? Because long term maintenance should also be a factor during the buying process - at least it is for me!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
40,225
I would probably go for something like this:
It would come to exactly than 3500 out the door.
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/14k-white-gold-2mm-comfort-fit-solitaire-engagement-ring-six-prong-item-7995
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.75-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-375763 Put on hold IMMEDIATELY and ask for an ASET.

I know you said WF. But this combo gives you 5.8mm stone at H VS2. And a 6 prong setting.

The setting will look great with a 5.8mm stone.

It's comfort fit and secure.
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
22
Hi Gypsy and Everyone,

Thank you all for your help! I apologize for not getting back for a few days.

She was here this weekend and I was not able to get on this forum without her noticing. In fact, I almost got busted three times! So who knows what she thinks I was looking at that I had to click out of as soon as she walked in to the room! Ha HA! :wall: Here I am looking for rings and she is raising eyebrows, ha ha. The problem is I have my computer hooked up to the TV in the living room so it is very obvious to see what I am looking at... anyway...

I will take a look at those ring and rock recommendations in more detail tonight. I did read the post you you linked Gypsy. Thank you for that info! I will have to try to see if I can see anything in a store with and without fluorescence so I can have a better idea about what you are talking about, although if I understand correctly it is something that I will notice on paper but not really looking at the stone with my naked eye.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I think you've got the jist of some of it.

I do really like that 75 pointer from JA. Their holds are no strings, so please put it on hold because a lurker snaps it up. And you can ask for an idealscope image. It will take 3 business days.
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
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Gypsy|1414384703|3773187 said:
I think you've got the jist of some of it.

I do really like that 75 pointer from JA. Their holds are no strings, so please put it on hold because a lurker snaps it up. And you can ask for an idealscope image. It will take 3 business days.


Hi Gypsy and Everyone,

Again thank you all for your help and advice! :clap: The more I read up this, the more I realize that I do not know! :wall: I really can not thank you all enough for taking the time to share your expertise so freely with a perfect stranger! :D Thank you!

So Gypsy, I got them to place that one you recommend on hold! :)

When I spoke with their rep, she told me that they could do an ASET on up to three rocks but they would only do one time no matter if I chose one two or three stones. She then went on to tell me that I really should compare it to something else and she was kind enough to put that one on hold for me while I look for one or more rocks to compare it to. So I researched and looked...

I came up with this as another contender:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371093
The HCA calculator gave it all excellent except the area of of spread which was very good, with a total visual of 1.7, the other stone you recommended was very good in all with the exception of spread being excellent and a total visual of 1.8. I assume that this means they should both be good stones (although I am sure their is something (or many things :shifty: ) that you saw or know taht makes your pick the best.

Having said all that, should I just go ahead and get the ASET on the one you recommended, both of them, or is there a third contender you recommend somewhere around that 3000~3500 spot? :confused:

I do really like that setting by the way... although I also like one that is half the cost of the stone (go figure). This is going to sound silly, but is the "comfort fit" more comfortable for her to where? I know when I saw the "knife edge" style I thought that it could be painful!

Thank you so much!

-D
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Hello Everyone,

So after reading up a bunch and pouring through stones and HCA reports, in addition to the original recommendation by Gypsy (being held):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-375763

Here is what I cam up with:

1) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-365806
HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle

2http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-381291
again, the HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle

3http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371093

4http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371736

I can choose 3 of the 5 for an ASET. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the other two (besides the first)?

Thank you!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Daikon|1414640616|3774818 said:
Hello Everyone,

So after reading up a bunch and pouring through stones and HCA reports, in addition to the original recommendation by Gypsy (being held):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-375763

Here is what I cam up with:

1) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-365806
HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle Crown too low

2http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-381291
again, the HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle Crown too low

3http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371093 If HCA is good this one is a contender

4http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371736 If HCA is good this one is a contender

I can choose 3 of the 5 for an ASET. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the other two (besides the first)?

Thank you!
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Gypsy|1414641568|3774822 said:
Daikon|1414640616|3774818 said:
Hello Everyone,

So after reading up a bunch and pouring through stones and HCA reports, in addition to the original recommendation by Gypsy (being held):

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-375763

Here is what I cam up with:

1) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-365806
HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle Crown too low

2http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-381291
again, the HCA was great although I'm not sure about the crown angle Crown too low

3http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371093 If HCA is good this one is a contender

4http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371736 If HCA is good this one is a contender

I can choose 3 of the 5 for an ASET. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the other two (besides the first)?

Thank you!


Thank you again Gypsy! Your help has been tremendous and I am really starting to enjoy seeing that cat! I will order they ASET images now and will post back with the results!

BTW - those two that you said could be contenders were both 1.7 ex, ex, ex, spread - very good. So we will see!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Ok then! Post them when you have them.
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Hello Everyone!

I just received the idealscope images and inspection reports from the gemologists at JA. Below are the images and comments I received for the three diamonds I asked about:

371093id.jpg
Diamond 371093has excellent brilliance and overall light return. The trained eye of the gemologist found it to have a whiter 'G' color, closer to an 'F'. Its fire and sparkle is very good! The diamond is eye clean.

375763id.jpg
Diamond 375763 is very similar to 371093with excellent brilliance and fire/light return! It faces up white with a true H color and is a little bigger than the other two. The diamond is eye clean.

371736id.jpg
Diamond [http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.74-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-371736]371736 [/url]has very good overall performance and brilliance and is a true H color. It has slightly less brilliance than the other two diamonds. This diamond is eye clean and faces up white similar to 375763.

I would appreciate any and all advice on this! :pray: I am unsure if the first one is the "clear cut" winner (pun intended, ...sorry if that was a bad joke) or not.

Also, if you think these look bad/ I could do better and that I should keep looking, I would appreciate knowing that too.

The sizes range from 0.73~0.75 and the price difference is only about two hundred between the three if anyone is curious.


Thank you all so much! :wavey: I can't wait to give her a ring! :love:

-D
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
The idealscopes are all showing a bit of leakage. But within acceptable tolerances with respect to 1 and 2.

I would probably prefer 1 myself.
 

Daikon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
22
Gypsy|1415311394|3778809 said:
The idealscopes are all showing a bit of leakage. But within acceptable tolerances with respect to 1 and 2.

I would probably prefer 1 myself.


Gypsy,

Thank you so much for getting back to me so soon!

I will be honest, I am not sure exactly how to interpret your words. :eh: ..especially since I do not exactly understand the implications of slight light leakage. Is the light leakage bad enough that I should let these go and continue the search, or is it something that is slight enough that it really should not make much of a difference? Would I be better off going for a slightly smaller (0.05ct) I color or SI1 stone that is a JA hearts and arrows or a whiteflash ACA to avoid this (I assume ACA/ H&A should not have this issue?

ON WF:

0.71 I VS2 ACA HCA 1.6
0.728 H SI1 ACA HCA 1.3
0.741 H VS2 ACA HCA 1.8

On JA

0.72 I VVS1 ACA HCA 1.2
0.7 E SI1 ACA HCA 1.9
0.74 F SI1 ACA HCA 1 AGS cert. and...bit of a budget stretch...

From what I have read, an eye clean SI1 may be indiscernible to the naked eye, however, I do not know if the color sacrifice would be worth it, even though cut is king.


I have waited a while to make this purchase, so I can wait longer and keep searching if I need to.

Thank you!
 
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