Virgin birth, documented

[crown1]

It would be nice if we could all say our piece and move on. I was trying to do so, but I feel like this has turned into a Kenny-bashing thread, Crown1. You've stated your feelings several times now and honestly, it's starting to seem like you're personally attacking Kenny. You're a longtime member; you know how to use the "report concern" function, and I'm sure you know how to "ignore" a poster or know how to find out how that is done. Best yet, let Ella determine whether any of this is in violation of PS terms of use/etiquette policy.

JaneSmith: I appeciate your words and your cat picture. Well done.

I'm moving on. No harm, no foul. Still glad to be a part of the Pricescope community, which I hold very dear in and of itself, and love all the members for which I have the utmost respect.

I agree it would be nice if we all could say our piece and move on. Because of years of reading Kenny's war on religion and finally his mockery of a prayer that has been recited for years I felt the need to let him know how I feel. I do not believe I have ever jumped into a thread where you had multiple posts and told you it was time to move along. I am not attacking Kenny I am trying to give him what he gives when he goes on and on about his dislike for religion. Have you ever told him to move on? How do you know I have not hit the report concern button. How do you know I have not discussed this with Ella? Maybe you would feel better if you were to ignore me ? Feel free to move on. I am not feeling your utmost respect for me but I am sure Kenny appreciates your support and respect. You can be sure I will not tell you when you need to stop posting in a thread. Enjoy your evening!

I will definitely put you on "ignore" because you sound crazy. Cheers!

If someone does not agree with you they are crazy. Is that a personal attack? Think about your words and actions. You are the one who decided to jump into something that was not really your place to do and when told that you take offense. Maybe you should think about why you did that.

 

[Trekkie]

Crown1, you have made your feelings clear. There is absolutely no need to keep going. IMHO, it has gone beyond a personal attack. Repeated Kenny-bashing is just childish and petty.

If you have a problem with Kenny's post, report it to the mods. You have hinted that you have already done so, so perhaps the fact that it has not been removed indicates that it is not in violation of the rules.

Let it go.

When no one is allowed to question or critique or even laugh at religious myths and doctrine, a very poisonous culture of silence and entitlement grows. Nothing should be placed beyond inquiry. Nothing should be claimed to be so sacred that questioning and reason is considered blasphemous and profane.
How ugly humans can become when given the power to smother and nullify curiosity and doubt.

There is a huge difference between saying a talking snake, virgin birth, or riding a Pegasus to heaven is silly, and directly saying that Jews, Christians, or Muslims are silly.

We are not supposed to discuss religion on PS, but there have been several successful thoughtful threads where this has happened. I think the mods know that we are all adults and only step in if things get heated or personal.

Now, here's a kitty.

Thanks JaneSmith! I appreciate your well thought out response.

Oh, and Ceiling Cat is teh awsum.

 

[crown1]

Crown1, you have made your feelings clear. There is absolutely no need to keep going. IMHO, it has gone beyond a personal attack. Repeated Kenny-bashing is just childish and petty.

If you have a problem with Kenny's post, report it to the mods. You have hinted that you have already done so, so perhaps the fact that it has not been removed indicates that it is not in violation of the rules.

Let it go.

When no one is allowed to question or critique or even laugh at religious myths and doctrine, a very poisonous culture of silence and entitlement grows. Nothing should be placed beyond inquiry. Nothing should be claimed to be so sacred that questioning and reason is considered blasphemous and profane.
How ugly humans can become when given the power to smother and nullify curiosity and doubt.

There is a huge difference between saying a talking snake, virgin birth, or riding a Pegasus to heaven is silly, and directly saying that Jews, Christians, or Muslims are silly.

We are not supposed to discuss religion on PS, but there have been several successful thoughtful threads where this has happened. I think the mods know that we are all adults and only step in if things get heated or personal.

Now, here's a kitty.

Thanks JaneSmith! I appreciate your well thought out response.

Oh, and Ceiling Cat is teh awsum.

Did you ever think perhaps you should report to the mods rather than playing mod yourself? I think if the mods have let it go it may indicate many things, maybe you should consider those. You, Kenny and any others who feel they can continue to beat a topic and demean the beliefs of others are not immune from being pushed back. Kenny is a big boy he has no trouble with words and he can defend himself. I have no problem with anyone personally. Some people become very defensive when another poster with different beliefs tries to standup for everyone's right to their own beliefs without ridicule. Have you ever asked Kenny to let it go? If it is alright for you to make this response I guess it is anyone's equal right to respond to a post. Enjoy your day.

eta: if you review my posts i think you will see since the beginning of this i have pretty much been responding to someone else's response. it has continued because others have commented. if no one else posts the thread may die a natural death.

 

[JaneSmith]

Crown, you are clearly a Christian who is upset and offended by a joke made at the expense of a specific part of your mythology, that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a virgin when she gave birth.
I understand that the stories told in the bible are held to be true and sacred by many. I also understand that when someone comes along and suggests it might not be true, it can cut to the bone. These beliefs are part of who you are as a person, and it can feel like a personal attack.
I'm truly sorry you are feeling badly about this.
You must realise, however, that using hurt feelings to keep religion sacred is a silencing tactic. Remember when much of the Muslim world rioted because their feelings were hurt by a cartoon? There must be freedom to speak and question.
Likening parthenogenesis to the virgin birth is a funny comparison, because it is science bumping up against faith.

I wrote my piece earlier to express my position on the topic of freedom of thought and speech, not to defend anyone else. And that freedom of inquiry of course includes questioning atheism. I never said otherwise and you are grossly misinterpreting if you got that from my words. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. They do not have the right to demand respect for those beliefs nor do they have the right to not be offended.

Atheism is not a belief system or faith. A person who is an atheist simply sees no compelling evidence for gods or supernatural deities, and accepts that they don't, or probably don't, exist.

We can talk about these things without getting all pissy at the person talking. I'd quite like it if we could continue this thread.

 

[crown1]

Crown, you are clearly a Christian who is upset and offended by a joke made at the expense of a specific part of your mythology, that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a virgin when she gave birth.
I understand that the stories told in the bible are held to be true and sacred by many. I also understand that when someone comes along and suggests it might not be true, it can cut to the bone. These beliefs are part of who you are as a person, and it can feel like a personal attack.
I'm truly sorry you are feeling badly about this.
You must realise, however, that using hurt feelings to keep religion sacred is a silencing tactic. Remember when much of the Muslim world rioted because their feelings were hurt by a cartoon? There must be freedom to speak and question.
Likening parthenogenesis to the virgin birth is a funny comparison, because it is science bumping up against faith.

I wrote my piece earlier to express my position on the topic of freedom of thought and speech, not to defend anyone else. And that freedom of inquiry of course includes questioning atheism. I never said otherwise and you are grossly misinterpreting if you got that from my words. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. They do not have the right to demand respect for those beliefs nor do they have the right to not be offended.

Atheism is not a belief system or faith. A person who is an atheist simply sees no compelling evidence for gods or supernatural deities, and accepts that they don't, or probably don't, exist.

We can talk about these things without getting all pissy at the person talking. I'd quite like it if we could continue this thread.

You have made an assumption. The Hail Mary, that I feel was mocked, is a Catholic thing. I am not Catholic. You speak with authority as if all you say is correct and we should all accept it as fact. I do not wish to debate your faith or lack of it. My desire is to stop people mocking others. I am not sure what your agenda is, but you have the right to carry on if you wish, just do not expect it to go unchallenged, and for me to be intimidated by your words. Last I checked this was an equal playing field.

 

[AGBF]

Crown, you are clearly a Christian who is upset and offended by a joke made at the expense of a specific part of your mythology, that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a virgin when she gave birth.

I understand that the stories told in the bible are held to be true and sacred by many. I also understand that when someone comes along and suggests it might not be true, it can cut to the bone. These beliefs are part of who you are as a person, and it can feel like a personal attack.

I'm truly sorry you are feeling badly about this.


You must realise, however, that using hurt feelings to keep religion sacred is a silencing tactic. Remember when much of the Muslim world rioted because their feelings were hurt by a cartoon? There must be freedom to speak and question.
Likening parthenogenesis to the virgin birth is a funny comparison, because it is science bumping up against faith.

I wrote my piece earlier to express my position on the topic of freedom of thought and speech, not to defend anyone else. And that freedom of inquiry of course includes questioning atheism.

I am not going to continue to participate in this thread, which discusses religion in general. I am going to start a new thread in "Around The World" about the political ramifications of the issue of freedom of speech and religion.

I love having a place on Pricescope to discuss politics and I do not want to lose it because we violated the trust placed in us to follow the policies laid down by the mods. I am acting out of pure self-interest here; I am not being a goody-goody! I don't want to lose our right to discuss politics!!!

Deb/AGBF

 

[Trekkie]

Crown1, you have made your feelings clear. There is absolutely no need to keep going. IMHO, it has gone beyond a personal attack. Repeated Kenny-bashing is just childish and petty.

If you have a problem with Kenny's post, report it to the mods. You have hinted that you have already done so, so perhaps the fact that it has not been removed indicates that it is not in violation of the rules.

Let it go.

When no one is allowed to question or critique or even laugh at religious myths and doctrine, a very poisonous culture of silence and entitlement grows. Nothing should be placed beyond inquiry. Nothing should be claimed to be so sacred that questioning and reason is considered blasphemous and profane.
How ugly humans can become when given the power to smother and nullify curiosity and doubt.

There is a huge difference between saying a talking snake, virgin birth, or riding a Pegasus to heaven is silly, and directly saying that Jews, Christians, or Muslims are silly.

We are not supposed to discuss religion on PS, but there have been several successful thoughtful threads where this has happened. I think the mods know that we are all adults and only step in if things get heated or personal.

Now, here's a kitty.

Thanks JaneSmith! I appreciate your well thought out response.

Oh, and Ceiling Cat is teh awsum.

Did you ever think perhaps you should report to the mods rather than playing mod yourself?

No, because although I find your hysteria offensive, it is also quite amusing.

I think if the mods have let it go it may indicate many things, maybe you should consider those. You, Kenny and any others who feel they can continue to beat a topic and demean the beliefs of others are not immune from being pushed back.

When did I demean anyone's beliefs?

I've made only one post on this thread, suggesting that your behaviour was not very mature. I commented on your behaviour, not your beliefs.


Kenny is a big boy he has no trouble with words and he can defend himself. I have no problem with anyone personally. Some people become very defensive when another poster with different beliefs tries to standup for everyone's right to their own beliefs without ridicule.

As you so aptly demonstrated with your ranting when posters here stood up for Kenny's right to post something funny?

Have you ever asked Kenny to let it go?

What should Kenny let go? Being amusing? I hope not! PS is a very dull place without him.

If it is alright for you to make this response I guess it is anyone's equal right to respond to a post. Enjoy your day.

eta: if you review my posts i think you will see since the beginning of this i have pretty much been responding to someone else's response. it has continued because others have commented. if no one else posts the thread may die a natural death.

 

[crown1]

Trekkie, you clearly did not wish for the thread to stop. I am happy you feel amused. Precisely what I made a point of posters getting their enjoyment ridiculing others. You speak in circles but I do not loose my point trying to play your game. If anyone mocks others they are fair game. Have fun!

 

[Trekkie]

Crown, you are clearly a Christian who is upset and offended by a joke made at the expense of a specific part of your mythology, that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a virgin when she gave birth.

I understand that the stories told in the bible are held to be true and sacred by many. I also understand that when someone comes along and suggests it might not be true, it can cut to the bone. These beliefs are part of who you are as a person, and it can feel like a personal attack.

I'm truly sorry you are feeling badly about this.


You must realise, however, that using hurt feelings to keep religion sacred is a silencing tactic. Remember when much of the Muslim world rioted because their feelings were hurt by a cartoon? There must be freedom to speak and question.
Likening parthenogenesis to the virgin birth is a funny comparison, because it is science bumping up against faith.

I wrote my piece earlier to express my position on the topic of freedom of thought and speech, not to defend anyone else. And that freedom of inquiry of course includes questioning atheism.

I am not going to continue to participate in this thread, which discusses religion in general. I am going to start a new thread in "Around The World" about the political ramifications of the issue of freedom of speech and religion.

I love having a place on Pricescope to discuss politics and I do not want to lose it because we violated the trust placed in us to follow the policies laid down by the mods. I am acting out of pure self-interest here; I am not being a goody-goody! I don't want to lose our right to discuss politics!!!

Deb/AGBF

Excellent! Thank you Deb!

I will go over there right away and will hopefully assimilate the community's collective wisdom by my lurking!

 

[Trekkie]

Trekkie, you clearly did not wish for the thread to stop. I am happy you feel amused. Precisely what I made a point of posters getting their enjoyment ridiculing others. You speak in circles but I do not loose my point trying to play your game. If anyone mocks others they are fair game. Have fun!

People like you are the reason we can't have civilised discussions on PS.

I will now leave, not because you so desperately crave the childish glory of the last word, but because of my enormous respect for Deb/AGBF. She raised a valid point about creating a better space for this discussion, so I will be following that thread instead.

 

[crown1]

Trekkie, you clearly did not wish for the thread to stop. I am happy you feel amused. Precisely what I made a point of posters getting their enjoyment ridiculing others. You speak in circles but I do not loose my point trying to play your game. If anyone mocks others they are fair game. Have fun!

People like you are the reason we can't have civilised discussions on PS.

I will now leave, not because you so desperately crave the childish glory of the last word, but because of my enormous respect for Deb/AGBF. She raised a valid point about creating a better space for this discussion, so I will be following that thread instead.

Great! Enjoy your day. I have tired of the thread. But, I will not let you silence me by name calling. If the discussion was civilized I would never have entered it. I mostly lurk but I have a great aversion to the fact that some few on here think they can control the posts of others by intimidation. Kenny and you are no more right in being able to say whatever you wish than others. I have not attacked you and called you names but I can not say the same for you. If you want to defend Kenny have at it but he really has little respect for anyone who does not think like he.

 

[JaneSmith]

Yes Crown, I made an assumption, one I think is correct, in an attempt to empathize with your apparent distress. I speak with the authority of one, and have made it clear that my emphasis is on freedom of thought, speech, and inquiry. For you to suggest that I have an agenda and that I expect my words should be accepted unchallenged is completely disingenuous. I should certainly hope that you do not find the concept of free thought and speech intimidating. Mocking an idea is not mocking a person.
Please join us in Deb's 'Around the World' thread. It is an excellent idea to discuss this from a political angle.

 

[VRBeauty]

Trekkie, you clearly did not wish for the thread to stop. I am happy you feel amused. Precisely what I made a point of posters getting their enjoyment ridiculing others. You speak in circles but I do not loose my point trying to play your game. If anyone mocks others they are fair game. Have fun!

People like you are the reason we can't have civilised discussions on PS.

Trekkie, it takes two to tango.

Crown's initial observation and responses hardly amount to "hysteria." They were a observation that the way this thread was presented probably would not have been posted or tolerated if the group being lampooned was something other than Christianity, or Catholicism. I don't disagree with JansSmith's observations re the need to be able to discuss these things, but I'm not sure this is the time or place. Certainly Deb's approach of starting a discussion in the ATW forum makes more sense. I also agree that there is danger in preventing preventing discussions of sacred cows, but... we have a gentlemen's agreement, not to mention a forum rule, about the discussion of religion and politics here, in this forum. And I do think that Kenny is playing a shit-stirring role here.

I won't be participating in the other thread because I truly have much bigger things to attend to in my life today. But I do hope to get into that discussion at some time in the near future.

Peace.

 

[crown1]

Yes Crown, I made an assumption, one I think is correct, in an attempt to empathize with your apparent distress. I speak with the authority of one, and have made it clear that my emphasis is on freedom of thought, speech, and inquiry. For you to suggest that I have an agenda and that I expect my words should be accepted unchallenged is completely disingenuous. I should certainly hope that you do not find the concept of free thought and speech intimidating. Mocking an idea is not mocking a person.
Please join us in Deb's 'Around the World' thread. It is an excellent idea to discuss this from a political angle.

Yes, by all means, join that discussion but I have no interest. Discussion is one thing your superior attitude quite another. I am having no distress, simply standing for my belief that there is no reason to mock or demean in a matter that really makes no difference. Why should you or I care if someone chooses to belief something that we do not. No one can prove the other wrong. The only time I see a problem is when we infringe on others to have our way. I have no problem with free thought but calling others ideas silly, mythical and the like is just trying to bait and I really don't have time for that. Lastly, it really is no one's business if I follow a religion or not. That is not what this is about it is about Kenny mocking others.

 

[chrono]

Deb,
I went to look but couldn't find the thread in ATW. Is it there yet or did I not look hard enough?

 

[Ella]

Enough. For those insisting that they feel attacked, it goes both ways. Everyone needs to share their bought a on topics without personal attacks. Everyone is allowed their own feelings but no one is allowed to single out users on this forum to attack.