What's it like to live in St. Louis?

[Huldak]

DH and I are contemplating a move. We are currently in Cambridge MA, and would like to live in a place where the cost of living is less and the weather milder and sunnier. We've pretty much settled on Colorado for its sunshine and beauty (we also ride bicycles and motorcycles, and there's lots of great places to ride there, and lately we've been spending a lot of time in the Denver area and getting to know it), but DH is from St. Louis and I've been wondering lately if that might be the place to be. We're planning on having a baby, and we'd have his HS friends and family (mom, sister and niece) there.

So what I'm wondering is, for anyone who might be in St. Louis, would you recommend it? I've only lived in CT and MA.

 

[cflutist]

I currently volunteer at our local Police Department in the Crime Analysis Unit.

A Google Search shows that St. Louis is one of the most dangerous cities in the US to live in (don't blame the messenger).

 

[ponder]

Cflutist is correct in that St. Louis repeatedly makes the top 10 most dangerous cities to live in and East St. Louis, although it is in Illinois, is frequently #1. I have not lived in that area for over 30years but I have LOTS of family that does and I will honestly tell you that I was surprised that it was so high up on the crime list (although not surprised at all about East St.Louis.) You really need to more closely identify where you are looking at living. Most people I know live in outlying cities/municipalities and the areas seem incredibly safe and even bucolic. It is a densely populated city surrounded by lush rolling hilled farm land. I have no idea about the current economic situation, but no one seemed to be complaining about it in May when I was there.

The weather has a wide range of temps and you get all 4 seasons. It may be more temperate in climate than you are used to, but they do get extremes. Last winter was very cold and snowy/icy and a few summers ago they were around 100F for alot of the summer.

Hopefully Ame will chime in, I think she is that area and will have sharper observations.

 

[ame]

I've lived here almost my entire life save for college and grad school.

I would assume you'd probably live out in the burbs. Those statistics are all based on City of St. Louis, not including the County. The way St. Louis is set up does not seem to consider the County which has significantly lower crime rates.

Crime related: I, for the most part, don't feel unsafe here despite the crazy crime statistics. I work in the downtown area, and just about two weeks ago there was a shooting a block from my office that kept us on lockdown right at the end of the workday, and while that's unusual, I would say, I still didn't feel unsafe, because I felt like that was an isolated incident, and the people involved were "targeting" each other.

So as far as danger? I say that it depends which part you live in and where you regularly go. It's spilling over into other areas now though. "Traditionally" it's been isolated to East St. Louis (illinois, near the strip clubs) and North St. Louis and some random parts of downtown/midtown near SLU and Wash U. It's started to spread now into South St. Louis, and into "rolling gun battles." It's almost all gang related and drug related. There have been some very scary random acts of violence, ie the knockout game. That's been usually in the "south side", and been a something teenagers have been doing, potentially a gang initiation ritual. And I have no explanation for you on that, seriously. No one really does.

Beyond that:
As a whole...I would say this city is very racist. I'll get that out in the open: this Ferguson situation has really exposed it. It's a very segregated city. People try to downplay that, but it absolutely is. I don't choose to hang out with people who are, but it's very obvious that this city has a population that behaves that way. I'd like to hope that the younger generation can fix that. If you're from an area that isn't like that, and you come here, you'll see it very quickly and it might strike a nerve in you. I had a thread going about it when the Michael Brown incident initially occurred, and as the protests have continued, it's devolved. There's a powder keg of historical racism that will go off around here. The fuse got lit with that child's death. The protesting has really made it quite obvious "what side people are on." One tiny insight is covered in this WashPo article. It's appalling, and this doesn't even get deep enough into it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

Aside from ALL OF THAT....You'll get all four seasons here. You won't get a long Spring and Fall but you'll get them. Compared to the Northeast, your Winter will be milder. This past Winter was hell. We got more snow, and a TON of it at that, than we have in a long time, and it was colder than any winter in a long time. Normally we don't get too much snow at a time, we often get a little icing...But we don't usually get REALLY cold either. Not Northeast level cold. I lived in PA for a while for Grad School and it was a little more snow/cold there than here. Summers will be warm. This past Summer was a little less warm than normal, but typically 90s even 100s. Humid and gross. We can have violent storms and we would qualify as a Tornado hotspot for sure. As your inlaws would inform you of.

Gas is cheaper than you're used to, probably by a mile. Traffic won't be anything like what you're used to--WE will complain like crazy about how horrible 40 (also known as 64, we call it 40), 70 and 270 are, but you'll be like whatever! this is nothing! The shopping could be better but it's still ok. It's sometimes TOO small town in that regard. You can get most nice stuff, but you have to order a ton online if you like higher end stuff because you're not likely to find a lot of that here, so if you were wanting some new Tom Ford makeup which you might have been able to walk into a nice department store and walk back out with at home--order it online. You won't see it in person here. I tend to buy that stuff when I go to DFW or on trips elsewhere. MOST people are nicer here when you are out and about, but in general are a$$holes on the road . We have some decent restaurants here, the food is getting to be pretty remarkable, in terms of chefs. A few nice mom and pop places. If you like Fried Chicken--Hodaks is the place. And you must have some Ted Drewes.

You can't really walk anywhere. It's a driving city. Also another "small town" thing about STL: everyone knows everyone somehow. You'll also get asked 100 times a day "where'd you go to high school." Your husband being from here, he'll have warned you of this. That's partly to figure out if they know you somehow but it's also "class warfare." So they can gauge how rich you were growing up and what "level" you are in society to see if you're worthy. It's idiotic.

I don't know really what your criteria between here and Denver is, but I can see why having family nearby when having a kid would be helpful, vs being isolated where you have no one. My biggest thing would be jobs. If he has a job there/job offer there and prospects are better there vs here, that would make a difference.

I know we have a few other locals on here, so hopefully they'll chime in.

 

[Huldak]

cflutist and ponder, thank you for your responses.

Ame, wow. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. And honesty. So many people would just lay out all the good things about their hometown. That article ... it makes me want to move there just so I can represent those folks and fight the system (I'm an attorney). So troubling. I of course heard about Ferguson, but I didn't know it was so systemic, so bad. And DH hasn't really talked about it.

I've read/heard about the HS thing. So funny. I get asked where I went to law school, but not a lot. And never high school or even undergrad. Actually, DH has told me folks here (the East) are status conscious, and elsewhere they don't care where you went to school. I guess he meant college!

I have to say (and don't feel like your post is responsible for this as the scales were already waaay tipped in Denver's favor) I think Colorado wins. Actually, I think DH would prefer to live there as well, despite wanting to be near family. No humidity, natural beauty, nice city, lots of space ... it's got a lot going for it.

 

[ame]

cflutist and ponder, thank you for your responses.

Ame, wow. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. And honesty. So many people would just lay out all the good things about their hometown. That article ... it makes me want to move there just so I can represent those folks and fight the system (I'm an attorney). So troubling. I of course heard about Ferguson, but I didn't know it was so systemic, so bad. And DH hasn't really talked about it.

I've read/heard about the HS thing. So funny. I get asked where I went to law school, but not a lot. And never high school or even undergrad. Actually, DH has told me folks here (the East) are status conscious, and elsewhere they don't care where you went to school. I guess he meant college!

I have to say (and don't feel like your post is responsible for this as the scales were already waaay tipped in Denver's favor) I think Colorado wins. Actually, I think DH would prefer to live there as well, despite wanting to be near family. No humidity, natural beauty, nice city, lots of space ... it's got a lot going for it.

My brother lives in Denver now for work, and he likes the city, but not enough to stay there. He wants desperately to move back home. He flies home almost every weekend. My husband really likes it there as well, but we don't have enough connections that we'd move unless we had to.

Hopefully someone with kids can chime in on school stuff. I have no input on that.

The stats on crime here are so skewed that it's ridiculous. They're based solely on the small portions of the CITY of St. Louis and East St. Louis, and not on the actual Metro Area, those numbers don't take into account the municipalities and suburban areas. St. Louis is not just the city proper. So when you say you're from St. Louis, people recoil from the knowledge of that statistic and you could really be from like, richyrich suburb where nothing ever happens except, say, systemic racism in the form of traffic crimes or shoplifting offenses, like the article. It's kind of painted this picture that's inaccurate.

I had to go to the post office the other day, and as I pulled in, there's one of the County Police Bearcats parked in the lot. The post office is caddy-corner to the precinct near my house. I seriously almost lost my sh!t. I texted a photo to my husband and he had a FIT as well. I guess the hair salon, Club Fitness and bread co needed serious protection in my neighborhood that nothing is happening in.

I think the situation in that article, the systemic nonsense here could benefit from your assistance. Man, I'd like to see a shift in this city, this state. I am so sick of the way people justify the nonsense and try to say that being a hateful, discriminatory jerk is somehow ok because they go to church. Oh, yea, if you move here--expect a lot of that, too.

There are good things about living here. It is a reasonably low cost of living. We are thankfully still not a right to work state, which hopefully we remain in avoidance of. Traffic compared to other larger cities is nothing. You can get on a cheapish flight to most major cities and still fly direct (DFW, Chicago, NYC, SF, LA).

 

[PintoBean]

I loved my stay in STL. I didnt feel unsafe walking around downtown, and loved that when I looked confused a friendly city guide walked up to lend a helping hand. We were walking from Range the burger place if I recall the name correctly to the city museum. Then again I worked in NYC a few years agoand trekked to lots of remote parts of the city for work lol.

I loved my friend's neighborhood and loved how much house she got for the price. Creve coeur I believe is the name of her neighborhood.

If DH got a job there I'd move in a heartbeat!!!

 

[ame]

I loved my stay in STL. I didnt feel unsafe walking around downtown, and loved that when I looked confused a friendly city guide walked up to lend a helping hand. We were walking from Range the burger place if I recall the name correctly to the city museum. Then again I worked in NYC a few years agoand trekked to lots of remote parts of the city for work lol.

I loved my friend's neighborhood and loved how much house she got for the price. Creve coeur I believe is the name of her neighborhood.

If DH got a job there I'd move in a heartbeat!!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm the range is gooood

 

[kathley]

cflutist and ponder, thank you for your responses.

Ame, wow. I really appreciate your thoughtful response. And honesty. So many people would just lay out all the good things about their hometown. That article ... it makes me want to move there just so I can represent those folks and fight the system (I'm an attorney). So troubling. I of course heard about Ferguson, but I didn't know it was so systemic, so bad. And DH hasn't really talked about it.

I've read/heard about the HS thing. So funny. I get asked where I went to law school, but not a lot. And never high school or even undergrad. Actually, DH has told me folks here (the East) are status conscious, and elsewhere they don't care where you went to school. I guess he meant college!

I have to say (and don't feel like your post is responsible for this as the scales were already waaay tipped in Denver's favor) I think Colorado wins. Actually, I think DH would prefer to live there as well, despite wanting to be near family. No humidity, natural beauty, nice city, lots of space ... it's got a lot going for it.

My brother lives in Denver now for work, and he likes the city, but not enough to stay there. He wants desperately to move back home. He flies home almost every weekend. My husband really likes it there as well, but we don't have enough connections that we'd move unless we had to.

Hopefully someone with kids can chime in on school stuff. I have no input on that.

The stats on crime here are so skewed that it's ridiculous. They're based solely on the small portions of the CITY of St. Louis and East St. Louis, and not on the actual Metro Area, those numbers don't take into account the municipalities and suburban areas. St. Louis is not just the city proper. So when you say you're from St. Louis, people recoil from the knowledge of that statistic and you could really be from like, richyrich suburb where nothing ever happens except, say, systemic racism in the form of traffic crimes or shoplifting offenses, like the article. It's kind of painted this picture that's inaccurate.

I had to go to the post office the other day, and as I pulled in, there's one of the County Police Bearcats parked in the lot. The post office is caddy-corner to the precinct near my house. I seriously almost lost my sh!t. I texted a photo to my husband and he had a FIT as well. I guess the hair salon, Club Fitness and bread co needed serious protection in my neighborhood that nothing is happening in.

I think the situation in that article, the systemic nonsense here could benefit from your assistance. Man, I'd like to see a shift in this city, this state. I am so sick of the way people justify the nonsense and try to say that being a hateful, discriminatory jerk is somehow ok because they go to church. Oh, yea, if you move here--expect a lot of that, too.

There are good things about living here. It is a reasonably low cost of living. We are thankfully still not a right to work state, which hopefully we remain in avoidance of. Traffic compared to other larger cities is nothing. You can get on a cheapish flight to most major cities and still fly direct (DFW, Chicago, NYC, SF, LA).

Ame has been right on with her take on everything she talks about re: living in St. Louis, and I can't add a whole lot more. But as far as school stuff goes, we put the children in private grade schools, then the public county high school. While we feel they received equally good education from the Catholic schools and public county schools; we did think the diversity that they experienced in high school helped to "educate" them with difference scenarios that they would experience in the "real" world. But, there is a GREAT deal of disparity of educational quality between the public and city schools.

 

[kenny]

While rating crime by city is accurate and fair you may want to dig deeper when selecting a place to move..
In all cities, even in 'higher-crime' ones, there will be higher-crime and lower-crime parts of the city.

I have found this to be something you can exploit when moving to a new city.
You may save money/find a bargain if you buy a house in a nicer lower-crime region of a higher-crime city.

I know here in Southern California there are nicer lower-crime parts of cities that (overall) have a reputation for higher crime.
Less-informed buyers would never consider moving to city X, but better-informed buyers can get more house for a lower price in a perfectly wonderful part of that city.

 

[ame]

I had the same type of experience with education, in that I went to a private grade school (not a single person of any other ethnicity--not one. all rich white kids.) and a public high school that participated in the desegregation program (ie they bused kids in from other parts of st. louis, city predominantly, mostly black students.) I know there were lots of parents of some of my high school friends who had some strong opinions about that particular program, but I think most of the kids in my school didn't have a lot of negative to say about it. I made several friends I never would've known otherwise, many who I am still in contact with. This very subject became another one of those racial hotbeds around here, in that there were several school districts who lost accredidations (predominantly black districts) and mostly white districts refused to take those students. "Why should we "have" to educate those kids."

 

[kenny]

My family was wealthy till I was age 10 ... all private, all white schools.
Then we were poor and moved where whites were the minority.

It was a profound, eye-opening and valuable experience.
I rank it right up there with living overseas for years.
Things that broadens our experience and exposes us to a variety of people is good.

 

[Ellen]

I grew up and live about 40 minutes north of St. Louis, my sister lived in CO for a while years ago (Idaho also, GORGEOUS!) and I went out to stay with her a couple times. (Everything seems to have been covered that's of any real importance) So I will just say, aesthetically speaking, there is no comparison. None. You can't beat majestic mountain vistas. Except maybe, with an ocean, which is not an option here. lol

So I would hands down vote CO.

 

[ame]

Um, yes. There are no views like that here. None. What I didn't cover were museums, like History Museum, Art Museum, Zoo: All free with some paid exhibits. The Science Center, City Museum, Botanical Garden, Arch, Transportation Museum, Grant's Farm: all cheap. (Just FYI, the top of the arch smells like pee. Just sayin'.) Plenty more, but lots of cool cheap and free stuff to do here.

I had my husband read this thread and he was like "gee dear, way to turn someone off!" He doesn't dispute anything I said, just that it was like "you're not exactly selling the place." He's not originally from here, though his family "settled here" for a job when he was starting high school and while the rest has moved along from here more than a decade ago, he's still here with me. DH loves Denver, and said he would love for us to live there, though he mentioned drawbacks in regards to thinks we care about. He said he was surprised my brother was not totally in love with the place when he got out there because for a jock and outdoorsy kinda guy, that is like...prime territory for him. But my brother much prefers being here.

 

[Huldak]

Um, yes. There are no views like that here. None. What I didn't cover were museums, like History Museum, Art Museum, Zoo: All free with some paid exhibits. The Science Center, City Museum, Botanical Garden, Arch, Transportation Museum, Grant's Farm: all cheap. (Just FYI, the top of the arch smells like pee. Just sayin'.) Plenty more, but lots of cool cheap and free stuff to do here.

I had my husband read this thread and he was like "gee dear, way to turn someone off!" He doesn't dispute anything I said, just that it was like "you're not exactly selling the place." He's not originally from here, though his family "settled here" for a job when he was starting high school and while the rest has moved along from here more than a decade ago, he's still here with me. DH loves Denver, and said he would love for us to live there, though he mentioned drawbacks in regards to thinks we care about. He said he was surprised my brother was not totally in love with the place when he got out there because for a jock and outdoorsy kinda guy, that is like...prime territory for him. But my brother much prefers being here.

lol! I've not been up there yet, but I stand warned. To both cover my nose and try not to get peed on, I guess.

Why does your brother prefer St. Louis?

 

[ame]

Um, yes. There are no views like that here. None. What I didn't cover were museums, like History Museum, Art Museum, Zoo: All free with some paid exhibits. The Science Center, City Museum, Botanical Garden, Arch, Transportation Museum, Grant's Farm: all cheap. (Just FYI, the top of the arch smells like pee. Just sayin'.) Plenty more, but lots of cool cheap and free stuff to do here.

I had my husband read this thread and he was like "gee dear, way to turn someone off!" He doesn't dispute anything I said, just that it was like "you're not exactly selling the place." He's not originally from here, though his family "settled here" for a job when he was starting high school and while the rest has moved along from here more than a decade ago, he's still here with me. DH loves Denver, and said he would love for us to live there, though he mentioned drawbacks in regards to thinks we care about. He said he was surprised my brother was not totally in love with the place when he got out there because for a jock and outdoorsy kinda guy, that is like...prime territory for him. But my brother much prefers being here.

lol! I've not been up there yet, but I stand warned. To both cover my nose and try not to get peed on, I guess.

Why does your brother prefer St. Louis?

Probably because it's home. He wasn't really excited to ever move away. Even when he was at school an hour and a half away he was driving home nearly every weekend after football season was over (he played football in college). He likes to be home. His wife is the same way. DH's boss wants us to Relo down south (his old job was pushing it as well, to the same city) and while for us it would be best of the worst case situations, in that his family lives there, it's not a city we want to live, even with his awesome family living there.

I have yet to see anyone actually in the process of peeing while up there, but it always smells like it has recently occurred, and has years of urine buildup. I am also not a fan of confined spaces, so I absolutely dread when someone from out of town wants to go check it out. The process of getting up there is like...among my top five least favorite experiences.