GIA India - is this junk?

[eiger]

I am seriously considering a stone (or at least seeing it on 30 day approval) that has a GIA Indai certificate. I spoke to one jeweler about this who told me that GIA india is junk and the stone's ratings are inflated. Is this true?

 

[John P]

I am seriously considering a stone (or at least seeing it on 30 day approval) that has a GIA Indai certificate. I spoke to one jeweler about this who told me that GIA india is junk and the stone's ratings are inflated. Is this true?

GIA does not stipulate which lab location graded any given diamond. Did the seller indicate firm knowledge that it was graded in India?

In the big picture, GIA works to be consistent across all of their locations. For the volume they do that consistency is reasonable, although outliers are inevitable.

 

[eiger]

I am told that the stone I am interested in is in Mumbai. I found the stone using pricescope's search tool. When I called to ask about it I was told not to bother even though the numbers looked promising.

 

[John P]

I am told that the stone I am interested in is in Mumbai. I found the stone using pricescope's search tool. When I called to ask about it I was told not to bother even though the numbers looked promising.

Where it's located now doesn't necessarily reflect where it was graded. Diamonds in NYC were not necessarily graded there, just as diamonds in Mumbai, Antwerp, Tel-Aviv and HK may have traveled through different suppliers. For that matter, capacity and take-in may dictate that diamonds submitted in location A may be shipped and graded at location B.

Who told you "not to bother?" The seller? Or someone else?

 

[eiger]

The seller - although,as I'm sure you are aware, this is not a stone that is in their inventory. It is part of their virtual inventory -accessible by other sellers. Is there a way to see if a reputable seller could source the exact same stone for me? Do most jewelers have access to the same stones?

 

[John P]

The seller - although,as I'm sure you are aware, this is not a stone that is in their inventory. It is part of their virtual inventory -accessible by other sellers.

I wasn't aware of that until now, as some sellers have in-house inventory. The comment about the diamond being in Mumbai is a pretty good signal that it's not an in-house option, unless they have a department there. I remain confused about where you got these impressions: (a) Diamond X was graded by GIA India. (b) GIA's lab in India has different standards than other GIA locations.

If the seller just said "It's in Mumbai, we have notes on it, and we don't think it was graded correctly" that's one thing. But they said "It's in Mumbai and we haven't seen it, but it was graded by GIA India and that location is not reputable" ... that's another matter. Can you clarify?

Do most jewelers have access to the same stones?

Maybe. Maybe not. There are partnerships between suppliers and retailers where some inventory ("virtual") is offered to retailers A,B,C but not to retailers D-Z. Other suppliers don't mind to sell to anyone who pays them.

 

[WinkHPD]

I would not disparage the color and clarity grade of a diamond I have not seen that has a GIA report on it. I might well disparage the cutting, as it is well known here that I have little, if any, respect for the GIA cutting grade.

I would also vet it for accuracy, because of the outliers John mentioned… I know we tend to think of GIA as the authority, for good reason. But in a practical sense I am far more adept at “nailing” precise color and clarity in my own laboratory, with my known equipment, my decades of experience and my reputation on the line, than a team of junior graders who see it for only a few moments.

To that end, if the original seller was looking at the diamond and saying the grading is off I could understand. But that doesn’t sound like the case. I’m interested to hear the OP’s answer to John’s question.

Wink

 

[eiger]

The seller told me that the stone is not one of their own but one they can source, although it did appear in a search on their site. So, no, it is not part of their own inventory. Then they said that it was in Mumbai and that meant it was graded by Gia India which has standards well below Gia in the U.S. and so it would not be an actual I si1 but a lower grade in both clarity and color. The stone scored within hca range in the ags0 box and that is why I wanted to learn more about it.

I called a well-regarded jeweler (at least well regarded here on ps) to ask what they thought and to see if they might be able to source the diamond (this way I would be working with a reputable company). They told me they don't import stones although they also said that imported stones are cheaper than domestic ones and so, if I see a stone that looks like a great deal in a diamond search, it is probably imported. She agreed though that the proportions on this stone look promising.

Soooo....I hung up with her and called another company whose search revealed the same diamond. They told me it was in Mumbai as well. They said that there was a holiday going on right now, but by November 4th they should be able to get ideal scope and aset images...then the guy I was speaking to read through some notes and told me that the stone was marked "slightly milky."

Interestingly, the same exact diamond is listed on union diamonds's sight as one of their reserve select (or some words like that) stone, which they say has almost know light leakage and hearts and arrows.

This is all harder than I thought. When I performed my search there was no indication that the stone was in India, cloudy, graded by a disreputable branch of the Gia, or difficult to import. Can someone tell me what to believe? Here I was getting excited that I might have found something really nice.

 

[arkieb1]

I'd stay away from a stone that the vendor describes as "slightly milky" that is probably why it seems like a bargain.

 

[John P]

Thanks for the added information. It makes sense.

Then they said that it was in Mumbai and that meant it was graded by Gia India which has standards well below Gia in the U.S.

Whether a mistake or a scare tactic, this is bad information. Full stop. Can you say who this was? If you prefer not to ID that seller, perhaps you can list the others you're working with who are providing good info. This community is very aware and supportive of retailers who shoot-straight.

I called a well-regarded jeweler (at least well regarded here on ps) to ask what they thought and to see if they might be able to source the diamond (this way I would be working with a reputable company). They told me they don't import stones although they also said that imported stones are cheaper than domestic ones and so, if I see a stone that looks like a great deal in a diamond search, it is probably imported. She agreed though that the proportions on this stone look promising.

Diamonds are diamonds. We sell to three different continents. They are not magically less or more expensive (business to business) depending on the destination. What end-consumers will pay differs depending on location and market - but that's the same everywhere. Someone buying in the shops at Caesar's Palace or a Ski Shop in Aspen will likely pay more for a piece of jewelry than the same piece offered by a capable online seller.

This is all harder than I thought. When I performed my search there was no indication that the stone was in India, cloudy, graded by a disreputable branch of the Gia, or difficult to import. Can someone tell me what to believe? Here I was getting excited that I might have found something really nice.

There is nothing to the concept of "disreputable branch" so dismiss that. Meanwhile, a milky SI1, especially if not eye-clean, would logically be priced significantly lower than other 3ct diamonds (same paper grades) that are clean, with no optical issues. Usually, if a deal seems to good to be true there is an underlying fundamental issue. Here...the milky comment and eye-clean question are the notable flags.

 

[Sunstorm]

Very odd, sellers trying to sell diamonds tell you not to bother but for different reasons, one says because it is GIA Mumbai or whatever graded, another says because it is milky. Ok, the former is odd, the grades could be off, yes as Wink has suggested that may be the case but not necessarily because of the particular GIA lab. The other seller is saying something entirely different and it may very well be the case that the diamond is milky. I find this sort of strange that they are listing this diamond but yet when someone calls to enquire about it, they all tell you not to buy practically losing business. Ok, maybe we do not have the whole story here.

Anyhow, just pass OP and search or have others help you search for stones here.

 

[John P]

I find this sort of strange that they are listing this diamond but yet when someone calls to enquire about it, they all tell you not to buy practically losing business.

There are many companies publishing lists of thousands of diamonds from multiple suppliers. When someone calls they consult the supplier's notes - so they may be learning of any deficiencies at that moment. This is a key difference between "In-House" diamonds (meaning truly in-house, vetted for color, clarity, etc. per Wink's post) and "virtual" diamonds somewhere offsite - where the seller only has some text to go-by.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Diamonds that are part of virtual inventories can be confusing to consumers for many reasons. First, they are often listed on multiple sites at different prices. The consumer then has to try to determine which of the vendors actually has access to the diamond and what their policies are such as return privilege, what services they perform and protections they provide. The merchants using best practices will filter out of their virtual inventory listings any stones that are not available to them or are otherwise deemed to be below their standards. Other vendors will list everything they can clone from databases to feed into their system to attract maximum interest, then turn customers away from stones that are not what they want to sell toward stones they want to sell. Some even have unavailable stones listed in some special category giving a sense that they been vetted when they have not.

Done right, merchants providing virtual inventories do a service to the market by providing large selection, professional gemological review, and sharp pricing. Even those merchants trying to do their best sometimes bump up against problems due to stones that become unavailable or have data errors in the listing, or detect some sort of defect upon receiving and inspection . Unfortunately, there are also those companies that use virtual inventories to intentionally mislead consumers for their own purposes.

 

[denverappraiser]

I second the comments by John above that the location of the stone has NOTHING to do with where it was graded. I’ll go even further than that. The client doesn’t even know. Dropping off a stone at NY or Carlsbad does NOT mean that it’s going to be graded there. They can and do routinely ship things around between their labs in order to even out the work load. There are zero clues on the report itself or even from the billing or shipping records.

“Slightly milky” is not a GIA term. That’s coming from somewhere else. If the person who is holding the stone put a note in the record somewhere, any dealer selling the stone should be able to see it. If it’s not them, where is this coming from? It’s not even possible to ask for a visual inspection since they’re supposedly on vacation at the moment. That really only leaves two choices. It’s in the notes and you can check it out with any dealer selling it, or they’re making it up. The difference is pretty important.

The same issue applies to the eye clean question. GIA doesn’t use this term. Who is, and on what do they base it?

 

[eiger]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Here is a link to the stone on the B2C site:

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6234423-3.05-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6234423&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

and here it is as an ideal select stone at Union Diamond (for a bit more money):
http://www.uniondiamond.com/Round-Brilliant-Shape-Select-Ideal-Cut-GIA-Certified-305-Carat-I-Color-SI1-Clarity_AE1102708&ptc=PS

I had asked whiteflash (because they have a very good reputation here) if they could get this diamond in and they told me they do have a virtual inventory, but they won't bring in stones from overseas because of the expense. I spoke to B2C and they told me that they could get the idealscope and asset image, but they were the ones who told me that there was a note regarding the stone saying that it is milky.


So here it what I understand. Correct me if I am wrong:
1) GIA certs do not indicate where the stone was inspected and GIA does a good job of normalizing its gradings. An I Si1 stone in GIA US should have the same rating at the GIA India lab.

2) A stone (including an I Si1 stone like this one) can score below 2 on the HCA, be listed as 3X on the GIA grading report, have good ideal scope and ASET images and still be milky.

So then - I suppose I will pass on this stone since I do not want a milky diamond.

Since I am a novice at buying diamonds, do you think that I will be able to see milkiness if I inspect a diamond in person? Should I avoid buying online because I may end up with a milky stone that "looks good" on paper? Is there a reason why milkiness is not noted on GIA reports? I think now I am feeling paranoid that I will make a mistake and end up with a milky stone!

 

[drk14]

Since I am a novice at buying diamonds, do you think that I will be able to see milkiness if I inspect a diamond in person? Should I avoid buying online because I may end up with a milky stone that "looks good" on paper? Is there a reason why milkiness is not noted on GIA reports? I think now I am feeling paranoid that I will make a mistake and end up with a milky stone!

The GIA report does mention clouds ("clouds are not shown"), which should alert you to be on the lookout for haziness (especially for clarity grades SI or lower). In addition to the report statistics and reflector images, you should get high-resolution photographs (and/or videos) of any diamond you are considering, as well as a gemologist's review. If you work with PS-recommended online vendors who provide these services, it's quite safe to purchase online (and you will generally get a better deal than in brick and mortar stores). Moreover, if you work with vendors who have an adequate return policy (e.g., 100% refund for purchases returned within X days, no questions asked), then you can further safeguard yourself by having the diamond evaluated by an independent appraiser of your choosing during the return period.

Good luck!

 

[eiger]

Ok - now I understand. Clouds can mean a stone looks milky.

How about this one?
AGS 104072952014
Weight 3.244

It is an si2 so Perhaps it is too included to be eye clean?

I feel like I am back to the drawing board again.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

I am seriously considering a stone (or at least seeing it on 30 day approval) that has a GIA Indai certificate. I spoke to one jeweler about this who told me that GIA india is junk and the stone's ratings are inflated. Is this true?

Eiger,

This thread is really a very good example of "bad guessing" by many different posters.

Instead of guessing or asking others on this forum to guess, go back to B2C or UnionDiamond and ask them to clarify what they meant or if there is any reason to worry about "milky" and if you are still interested ask them to follow up with the supplier to get more precise answers. There is nothing on that GIA grading report to indicate a milky appearance or anything I see as a redflag.

The grade setting inclusions on that 3.05Ct I SI1 start with crystal and end with a needle, the cloud comments are not likely anything to worry about in an SI1, are not grade setting, and likely do not impact brilliance. The biggest risk would be the crystal underneath the table and whether it is eyeclean or not, which is something you should probably ask about, this is standard advice for any table inclusions.

As for the vendor who disparaged GIA India, were they by any chance a third party trying to dissuade you from your purchase only to propose one of "their" stones'?

There is nothing disreputable on its face about a dropshipping vendor who doesn't sell in house stones. The large majority of stones sold on the internet are sold by dropshippers, find a reputable one with a good return policy and usually their is little risk or cost to you if you are unsatisfied.

99%+ of shoppers purchase GIA graded stones and feel no need for niche "Superideal" AGSL 0000 graded stones.

1) Its your choice if you want to pay the premium for an AGSL stone.
2) The original stone you chose with 34.5/40.6 CA/PA would likely be a beautiful well cut stone without issue. Those are ideal cut numbers close to the pinnacle of Ideal Tolk.
3) Many people cannot tell the difference or justify the premium for an in house stone with ASET, Idealscope and H&A images especially the premium difference at the 3Ct+ range.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Ok - now I understand. Clouds can mean a stone looks milky.

How about this one?
AGS 104072952014
Weight 3.244

It is an si2 so Perhaps it is too included to be eye clean?

I feel like I am back to the drawing board again.

One of the challenges in buying from virtual inventory is the number of uncertainties that both you and the vendor are dealing with until the stone is brought in-house and fully evaluated, and indeed until it is delivered to you and you can satisfy yourself that it is the stone for you. The uncertainty is compounded when it comes to diamonds of lower clarity. As you move down through the clarity scale, each grade becomes broader, encompassing a wider range of features that can potentially have negative impacts. For instance, the main grade setting feature on this diamond is a feather. It appears to be fairly large and may or may not present some durability concern or be visible to the naked eye from certain angles. It also has many twinning wisps which many consumers feel are "good" inclusions because they are semi-transparent and harder to discern than other types of features, but which also can potentially impact the overall transparency of the diamond and therefore light performance.

As MilesindeDiamonds explains above, the original diamond is a better bet.

 

[drk14]

There is nothing disreputable on its face about a dropshipping vendor who doesn't sell in house stones. The large majority of stones sold on the internet are sold by dropshippers, find a reputable one with a good return policy and usually their is little risk or cost to you if you are unsatisfied.

All the same, drop shippers are typically not recommended here, when there are plenty of PS vendors who will call in diamonds from virtual inventory for professional inspection before selling to the customer, thus saving the customer the time, cost, and hassle of having the diamond appraised and going through the merchandise return process if problems are found (problems that would have been caught by prior to sale if working with one of the recommended PS vendors).

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I do work with sellers in Mumbai and receive their weekly inventories and they do mark some stones as slightly milky. Check if the stone has clouds as an inclusion? If yes stone can be milky. Another reason is strong fluorescence.

And about being GIA India is junk - thats just a dirty tactic to scare you away from buying the stone.

Yes its Diwali, their annual festival going on in India right now.

Edited.

Another very common trade word that is used in the Asian/South Asian trade is 'No BGM' whenever trading stones within the trade. It means No brown, green, milky.

Hi Whiterock,
Welcome. As a member of the trade I believe you are required to have a trade badge here on the forum. I believe you can do that within your My Account settings. If not you might need to contact the admins.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

There is nothing disreputable on its face about a dropshipping vendor who doesn't sell in house stones. The large majority of stones sold on the internet are sold by dropshippers, find a reputable one with a good return policy and usually their is little risk or cost to you if you are unsatisfied.

All the same, drop shippers are typically not recommended here, when there are plenty of PS vendors who will call in diamonds from virtual inventory for professional inspection before selling to the customer, thus saving the customer the time, cost, and hassle of having the diamond appraised and going through the merchandise return process if problems are found (problems that would have been caught by prior to sale if working with one of the recommended PS vendors).

That's a good point drk. I'm not sure that everyone understands the distinction between a drop shipper and merchant offering a virtual inventory and doing quality control on the merchandise.

A drop shipper is a company that is primarily marketing the virtual inventory. They present the information about the product, handle the transaction and send the order information on to the supplier who then ships directly to the customer. A drop shipper never actually sees the merchandise. There is nothing inherently wrong with this business model. It is very common to many industries.

This is significantly different than a company selling virtual inventory but also providing their own quality control. They bring the goods into their location and perform some level of quality control (and other services) before shipping out to the customer. This is a more expensive business model but offers more protections for the consumer against unwelcome surprises. Because diamonds are expensive and often purchased for highly sentimental reasons, there is a much greater need for diligence and attention to detail.

There are many things that have to be carefully checked before a virtual diamond is cleared for delivery. First it must be gemologically verified as matching the lab report. Then it must be verified to be in condition represented by the report - inspected for chips, scratches etc. Then the diamond is checked for other things that the report might not specify but which are important to the customer such as eye-clean, inclusions raising durability concerns or impacting light performance, and other visual evaluations. Some companies perform additional higher level diagnostics such as light performance imaging and communicate all that information to the customer before shipping.

It''s important to understand the processes and policies provided by the companies you are shopping. Some customers prefer to get the lowest possible price and do not feel the need for anything more than a drop ship, while others are happy to pay for the extra services and protections provided by companies that do their own quality control.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

There is nothing disreputable on its face about a dropshipping vendor who doesn't sell in house stones. The large majority of stones sold on the internet are sold by dropshippers, find a reputable one with a good return policy and usually their is little risk or cost to you if you are unsatisfied.

All the same, drop shippers are typically not recommended here, when there are plenty of PS vendors who will call in diamonds from virtual inventory for professional inspection before selling to the customer, thus saving the customer the time, cost, and hassle of having the diamond appraised and going through the merchandise return process if problems are found (problems that would have been caught by prior to sale if working with one of the recommended PS vendors).

Are you certain B2C or UnionDiamond aren't recommended here from time to time? Are you certain they would not do any checks or provide any supplier provided images upon request prior to shipping to the consumer? You sure any costs on shipping both ways aren't picked up by them with no risk to the client? I have no idea about other vendor's policies and it isn't for me to research, but I do find it a little disconcerting when consumer posters like you push every consumer seeking specific advice to one of about 4 or 5 vendors with in house stones.

Bluenile is the largest online diamond retailer by a very large margin, they are a dropshipper and have low return rates, that model clearly works and they are public, you can look up their financials. Dropshippers may not be popular on these forums but they sure do have the majority of sales and companies like Bluenile have low return rates.

Those vendors consistently recommended here are also the same vendors who tend to disparage GIA XXX and market/focus on premium priced superideal AGS 0000 stones in most of the round brilliant threads. If this site was simply a referral service to "PS Sponsoring and Recommended Vendors" it would be not much different from those shill sites out there except there are "educated" consumers who are pushing the business that way instead of the business owners themselves.

Further it gets worse, it seem that consumers and trade now know that in these threads if there is no link to another vendor's website but instead simply a link to the GIA/AGSL grading report or cut/paste of the grading details than those very same "recommended" vendors are now allowed to disparage/comment on other stones for sale from their competition. They can comment on these diamonds or lack of information provided about them, disparage their competitors directly based on vague information provided by an OP, make assumptions, call the GIA cut grading "too wide" and promote AGSL cut grading and and their own in house diamonds , all of course in the name of "education".

 

[drk14]

Are you certain B2C or UnionDiamond aren't recommended here from time to time? Are you certain they would not do any checks prior to shipping to the consumer? You sure any costs on shipping both ways aren't picked up by the dropshipper with no risk to the client?

I seem to have touched a nerve! I don't know what the above questions have to do with my comment. Just to clarify, as I understand the term, a drop shipper does not receive the diamond before it goes to the customer. In contrast, vendors who do receive virtual diamonds and inspect them before shipping them to the customer are not drop shippers, and this is a value-added service that PS consumers like.

There are many different business models for selling diamonds both online and off-line, and most find a niche of customers who are willing to accept the business model offered and are (mostly) happy with the diamonds purchased. My impression of PS is that most customers here place a high value of cut quality and light performance, and seek out vendors who make it easier to find diamonds that meet these standards.

P.S. Disparaging of other vendors' diamonds by trade members is not allowed, and if you believe you have seen instances of such behavior, simply click the "Report Concern" button to notify the moderators.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

Are you certain B2C or UnionDiamond aren't recommended here from time to time? Are you certain they would not do any checks prior to shipping to the consumer? You sure any costs on shipping both ways aren't picked up by the dropshipper with no risk to the client?

I seem to have touched a nerve! I don't know what the above questions have to do with my comment.

Perhaps you weren't aware(or I am mistaken) that B2C and Union Diamond had access to the original diamond in India mentioned by the OP and they are primarily "dropshippers".

Just to clarify, as I understand the term, a drop shipper does not receive the diamond before it goes to the customer.

Well you may define it any way you wish it is not so black and white, the reality is I as a vendor can choose to do any/all of the following:

i) Call or e-mail a supplier and ask questions? (Is it eye clean?)
ii) Contact the supplier and get images(where available)
iii Contact the supplier and get a sarin scan(where available)
iv) Ship the diamond to my office and inspect it prior to shipping to the customer
v) Tell the supplier to ship directly to the customer

While for most customers especially B2B I only have to do v) that doesn't preclude me from doing i) to iv) on a case by case basis does that make me a "dropshipper"?

Some businesses only sell virtual stones, they have no inventory, they routinely only ship stones from supplier directly to the customer, but they may have more information available to them (like CG ASET images ) on some stones rather than others depending on if the supplier provides it or not.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Perhaps you weren't aware(or I am mistaken) that B2C and Union Diamond had access to the original diamond in India mentioned by the OP and they are primarily "dropshippers".

Just to clarify, as I understand the term, a drop shipper does not receive the diamond before it goes to the customer.

Well you may define it any way you wish it is not so black and white, the reality is I as a vendor can choose to do any/all of the following:

i) Call or e-mail a supplier and ask questions? (Is it eye clean?)
ii) Contact the supplier and get images(where available)
iii Contact the supplier and get a sarin scan(where available)
iv) Ship the diamond to my office and inspect it prior to shipping to the customer
v) Tell the supplier to ship directly to the customer

While for most customers especially B2B I only have to do v) that doesn't preclude me from doing i) to iv) on a case by case basis does that make me a "dropshipper"?

Some businesses only sell virtual stones, they have no inventory, they routinely only ship stones from supplier directly to the customer, but they may have more information available to them (like CG ASET images ) on some stones rather than others depending on if the supplier provides it or not.

A point of clarification: B2C has been mentioned in this thread and there is some discussion concerning the role of "drop shippers":

B2C is not a “drop shipper” in the style of never seeing the diamond. There is in-house inventory, as well as a larger global inventory list. Nothing is “drop shipped” however. Any diamond is brought in to our New York offices for inspection and QC prior to being sold. This helps alleviate the possibility of a customer receiving a stone that is not precisely what they expect it to be.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * I called a well-regarded jeweler (at least well regarded here on ps) to ask what they thought and to see if they might be able to source the diamond (this way I would be working with a reputable company). They told me they don't import stones although they also said that imported stones are cheaper than domestic ones and so, if I see a stone that looks like a great deal in a diamond search, it is probably imported. * * *

I'm stumped. Since there isn't any commercial diamond mining taking place in the USA, his/her inventory can't possibly consist of solely or even mostly domestic stones. Could someone in the trade shed light on what this person might have meant to convey? Thanks!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

* * * I called a well-regarded jeweler (at least well regarded here on ps) to ask what they thought and to see if they might be able to source the diamond (this way I would be working with a reputable company). They told me they don't import stones although they also said that imported stones are cheaper than domestic ones and so, if I see a stone that looks like a great deal in a diamond search, it is probably imported. * * *

I'm stumped. Since there isn't any commercial diamond mining taking place in the USA, his/her inventory can't possibly consist of solely or even mostly domestic stones. Could someone in the trade shed light on what this person might have meant to convey? Thanks!

I think the reference is to bringing in a virtual diamond that is located outside the US. There are logistics considerations and costs associated with the process that some companies don't want to take on. Especially if they are offering a return privilege, where returning it to the foreign supplier may not be an option.

 

[WinkHPD]

<Snip>

Those vendors consistently recommended here are also the same vendors who tend to disparage GIA XXX

<Snip>

I am one of those vendors who disparage GIA XXX and will continue to do so since it is a basically worthless grade that encompasses both beautiful and lifeless diamonds under the auspice of XXX.

When they publish a cut grade based on science I will be ecstatic in my change of tune.

Wink

 

[Texas Leaguer]

<Snip>

Those vendors consistently recommended here are also the same vendors who tend to disparage GIA XXX

<Snip>

I am one of those vendors who disparage GIA XXX and will continue to do so since it is a basically worthless grade that encompasses both beautiful and lifeless diamonds under the auspice of XXX.

When they publish a cut grade based on science I will be ecstatic in my change of tune.

Wink

Though I respect Wink's opinion, I am NOT one of those vendors who disparage GIA XXX. No more than I disparage a GIA Si1. There are some Si1 that are great, some that are so-so, and some that I would not buy.

I respect GIA for coming out with a cut grade for rounds, even if it is not as rigorous as it could be. When they finally did, cutting got better industry-wide. I look forward to the day when they do the same for princess cuts for the same reason.

For someone looking for the best of the best in terms of cut quality, you certainly cannot simply look for a GIA XXX and call it a day. You have to do more evaluation. But I also don't think I have ever seen a GIA XXX that was "lifeless" due to cut quality.