Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center stone

[moak]

I've been doing some research and came across this great forum and hope I can get some help from all of you.

I am looking for a center stone to put in a ring I'm having made. Its an art deco vintage style ring designed for a 6.5mm round cut center stone, with a diamond halo around it and then some fancy vintage style white sapphires outside of the halo. The ring will be rose gold. Pretty much identical to this: http://s3.weddbook.com/t4/2/0/5/2050709/stunning-diamond-ring-the-gatsby-ring-art-deco-great-gatsby-custom-made-engagementspecial-occasion-cocktail.jpg

I would like to find a deep blue or purple (purple is favorite color) sapphire to fill the ring. I'd like a darker tone but one with lots of brilliance and shine to it as well...not a dark, dull stone but also not a totally translucent light tone. I'm also blue-purple colorblind so telling the difference between similar shades of blue and purple is pretty tough for me.

I have a few possibilities I've found, but would like to get everyone's opinion on what would look the best or other sources to look at.

I've contacted Roger at spectralgems and am awaiting his response about these two:
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphirepinkrd1_20ct/#main
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphiregraperd1_40ct/#main

I think the Tanzanian sapphire might be perfectly what I'm looking for but either of the two look pretty perfect. If they don't say available does that mean they are not for sale?

I found this one from master cut gems although it doesn't appear to be as nice as the other two:
http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7924

They also have a more classic blue sapphire:
http://www.mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7823

I've also found several possibilities on the natural sapphire company website, although I've read mixed reviews on this forum about them. Their 5 day return policy gives me some confidence though.

The stones I like on there are dark blue, purple, and blueish purple. I think the dark blue ones wouldn't give as much brilliance as I'm looking for, although maybe in the ring setting they would appear lighter and shine more than in the photos? I'm also not sure if the blueish purple are too light colored or not purple enough for what I want. The two purple stones appear to be pretty good candidates, with the larger one probably filling out the ring setting a little better.
Those stones are:
Dark:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-5-blue-sapphires/p-54299-round-blue-sapphire-b6030/
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-5-blue-sapphires/p-54301-round-blue-sapphire-b6028/
Blue-Purple:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-50500-round-unique-sapphire-u4566/
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-52542-round-unique-sapphire-u4874/
Purple:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54336-round-unique-sapphire-u5160/
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54431-round-unique-sapphire-u5165/

I'd say the 4874 and 5165 were my two favorites, leaning towards the 5165 due to the purple color. However both stones from spectral gems look amazing but I'm not sure if they are for sale?

I'm really not sure how much of a difference a 6mm to 6.5mm stone will make once it is set, and also how different it will look set in the ring compared to in pictures. Will the ring darken the stone or lighten it? The center will be slightly elevated to allow some light to the underside. Would a blue look better than purple or is it personal preference? If anyone could give their opinion of the choices I've listed that would be great. I'd say I'm looking to spend no more than 2500 on the stone. Preferably 1500-2000.
Thanks!!

 

[Niel]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

I wouldn't discount 6mm stones if the color is right. It'll be a bit noticeable in size if directly compared but I mean, that halo is huge, and the color is what really will pop.


Those dark sapphires from NSC would look black IRL

here is one more to consider.
http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=5625

 

[Niel]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Pic

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

To me, the difference between 6.5 mm and 6.0 mm is noticeable only if the colour is comparable. If selecting between the two sizes but the smaller one has better colour, I'd go for colour first.

The 2 Roger Dery stones are good choices.
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphirepinkrd1_20ct/#main
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphiregraperd1_40ct/#main

I would skip the Mastercut sapphires due to colouration.

I would discount the NSC sapphires except these two:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-52542-round-unique-sapphire-u4874/
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54431-round-unique-sapphire-u5165/

Because the setting is quite enclosed (even with the slight elevation), I would not select a dark toned sapphire to begin with because it is very likely to darken it a bit. Blue or purple is a personal preference.

 

[T L]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Pic

Really need to see that one against a light white or light grey background. Dark backgrounds enhance saturation.

 

[Niel]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Pic

Really need to see that one against a light white or light grey background. Dark backgrounds enhance saturation.

He provides hand shots when asked.

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately Roger Dery has said those two are more pink than purple, but I suspect the 1.40ct is a similar pink to this one:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54336-round-unique-sapphire-u5160/
which might still be acceptable.

Also, can someone tell me why this one:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54431-round-unique-sapphire-u5165/
is valued so much higher than the previous link?

I honestly thought I liked the color of the first, but is it more of a pink than purple? I guess I could see that if that's the case. Also, is the color saturation rated Intense opposed to the others Vivid because it is so dark it starts becoming opaque? The Vivid does appear to be much clearer and easier to see through.

And like I said, its tough to tell blue from purple. Would you call this one a mostly blue with purple hue, or more of a pure mix between the two colors:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-52542-round-unique-sapphire-u4874/

The suggested purple one is definitely a very good option that I'm also going to consider. I may request additional photos.

At least I'm somewhat narrowing down the choices...

 

[2Neezers]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Here's a Violet Blue from Africa Gems (they are in California):
http://www.africagems.com/sapphire-purple-ja1160.html
If this one interest you at all, I would ask Marc to send you a video of the stone. I find their pictures hard to read, so the videos are very helpful. Also, I see they have a 10% off coupon code running right now through the end of October.
I love the setting you are having made. It's a stunner!

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Also found this possibility from the same site as was previously linked, although I think I like the color of the first one a bit better:

http://www.concavegems.com/detail.cfm?zNum=6928

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

NSC tends to be a vendor that is on the expensive side overall. Personally, I feel that they over-inflate their clarity and colour saturation grading when viewing the videos of their sapphires. Saturation (intense, vivid) refers to the pop or neon-ness of colour. Tone refers to the darkness or lightness of colour. When a stone is of light to medium light, it is very easy to see into the stone (transparency). A dark tone can still be transparent or easy to look into if a strong light source is shone onto the gem. Opaque is the opposite of transparent and usually refers to clarity. If opaque, even strong light cannot penetrate into the gem.

Concave cutting seems to be hit or miss with most people. It is a very different look and I suggest watching a few videos of concave cut stones to see if this is something you will like.

 

[D&T]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Pic

Love this stone. I suspect this will be more purple IRL. I had a similar color gem from RH years ago, and one thing that I like about Concave Cuts is that even in low lighting my gem seems to still "sparkle" glow , I've had a few Concave cut gems from Richard. He'll definitely chat with you and take more pictures if you request.

ETA: this was mine from RH a long time ago, ring has been rehomed now. But this picture somehow shows more of the pink in the picture , IRL it was a bit more purple. For reference this sapphire was 5.5mm

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Chrono, thanks for that note. I do see how the concave cut is very different. Not sure how I feel about them, or how it would look in the ring setting.

Since the ring setting has a lot of straight lines coming out from the setting, would the two similar patterns clash or work with each other?

 

[Niel]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Chrono, thanks for that note. I do see how the concave cut is very different. Not sure how I feel about them, or how it would look in the ring setting.

Since the ring setting has a lot of straight lines coming out from the setting, would the two similar patterns clash or work with each other?

I like concave for rounds more than other shapes. For me, the shape of the stone to your setting seems more relevant than the shape of the actual facets. But yes its really a personal preference thing.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Since the ring setting has a lot of straight lines coming out from the setting, would the two similar patterns clash or work with each other?

This is a personal preference. I see concave cutting as very modern and "shimmery".

 

[T L]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Since the ring setting has a lot of straight lines coming out from the setting, would the two similar patterns clash or work with each other?

This is a personal preference. I see concave cutting as very modern and "shimmery".

I like concave cuts on medium to lighter toned gems too, as it tends to make gems look darker IMO.

Niel,
Glad to hear he does hand shots.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Because you're going for an Art Deco/vintage feel, I would not consider concave cut gems. They don't really mesh with that era.

 

[SB621]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Because you're going for an Art Deco/vintage feel, I would not consider concave cut gems. They don't really mesh with that era.

Agreed!

I have what Jeff White calls a med. pink emerald cut tourmaline but to my eyes it has a strong purple coloring that I like. Are you going for a dark periwinkle type of color?

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Agreed!

I have what Jeff White calls a med. pink emerald cut tourmaline but to my eyes it has a strong purple coloring that I like. Are you going for a dark periwinkle type of color?

I agree with everyone else about the concave cut. I don't think it would work with the style and look of the setting.

And yes that color is kind of what I am looking for. I'm also considering a ruby though I'm not sure if the color would mesh well with the rest of the setting? Opinions? I'm waiting until early next week when I am going to view at least the first two and hopefully also the ruby in person thanks to Roger Dery:

http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphiregraperd1_40ct/#main
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire/sapphirepinkrd1_20ct/#main
http://www.spectralgems.net/ruby/rubyrd1_13ct_9108b/#main

Probably my favorite of Roger's is the 1.40ct Tanzanian. What are opinions on the ruby for this setting?

I'm also still considering the NSC purples, although honestly I'd probably rather purchase from Roger. I imagine most of you agree?. Chromo when you say they typically over inflate their clarity and color grading when viewing the videos, does that mean the videos are true to the gems or are they altered in some way? The two purple sapphires I linked from NSC appear almost flawless, especially this one: (www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-9-unique-sapphires/p-54431-round-unique-sapphire-u5165/) to me when looking at the 360 degree video. But then again, I don't have a trained eye. I may be able to pick up a tiny blemish, but is the general opinion they use specific backgrounds and lighting to make the gems look better than they do with "normal" lighting?

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

A fine ruby will cost more than a fine blue sapphire, not to mention rubies are often more highly treated than sapphires of all other colours ranging from diffusion (heated with other elements), flux healing, lead glass filling and more. So for me, knowing that it is heated is insufficient information - I would want to know the level of heat it underwent. But that's just me.

I don't think NSC alters or manipulates their videos, only that they are more generous in their estimation of the clarity and saturation. Although this particular round is as clean as stated, I've seen stones listed as VS with obvious inclusions. Based on the video, I also do not consider the sapphire as vivid.

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Does the agl report give that information or is it basic?

Thanks for your help. Going back to your original reply, (excluding the dark toned ones) can you tell me why you said you would discount the other NSC sapphires except the two you listed?

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

AGL offers several types of reports. The brief is indeed basic whilst the prestige report has more information, depending on which type you request.
http://aglgemlab.com/gembrief
http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report/

Between the two round blue sapphires, I picked the one with better cutting. The same goes for the purple round sapphires.

 

[T L]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Does the agl report give that information or is it basic?

Thanks for your help. Going back to your original reply, (excluding the dark toned ones) can you tell me why you said you would discount the other NSC sapphires except the two you listed?

Call AGL via telephone and ask. They're very nice, and that's the best way to get the most up to date information on what a particular report includes.

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

AGL offers several types of reports. The brief is indeed basic whilst the prestige report has more information, depending on which type you request.
http://aglgemlab.com/gembrief
http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report/

Between the two round blue sapphires, I picked the one with better cutting. The same goes for the purple round sapphires.

Would you go as far as saying cut is the most important aspect of two similarly colored, similar clarity sapphires?

ETA:
I agree that between the two round blues, the one you picked totally looks like the better cut. But between the two purples, I would have thought the other one's cut looked better. The pavilion looks way more centered and symmetric in the one you didn't pick. Is it because the cut is too short for its width where the other one is longer compared to the width? Or the crown too short?

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

If two stones have the same colouration, clarity and size, I prefer to pick the one that is better cut. The other round purple sapphire has a slight window.

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

I really like the color of this from the picture online.

http://www.africagems.com/round-purple-sapphire-g2k-92562589.html

However I've been told it might appear blue in daylight and fluorescent lighting, and purple in incandescent. It does seem to have some blue tendencies to it. This sapphire has awesome fire and color, but I'd rather something true purple all the time. I emailed Marc and asked him how the color changes.

What do you all think it would look like IRL? Always purple, or sometimes blue? (I'm slightly blue - purple colorblind so it's hard to tell the two apart if shades are similar, which leads to problems when viewing these colors)

Thanks!!

 

[Starzin]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

What do you all think it would look like IRL? Always purple, or sometimes blue?

Moak, that's an impossible question for us to to answer which is why I suspect you haven't received any responses to it.

It depends so much on the lighting that you will wear it in - office fluoros? Mostly home? Mostly "best" wear i.e. dimmed restaurant?

For example, I live in the southern hemisphere and I suspect both you and the stone are in the northern. Gems will look completely different to us because of the "sky" light.

If you like it then buy it, there is a good return policy, just make sure you read it before buying so that you understand the terms and... good luck!

EDIT: they will do a video for you before buying if you ask, and you can post the link here for us to have another look.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Unfortunately, as Starzin said, there is no way for us to predict how the stone will behave under your normal wearing conditions. Sapphires love to shift depending on the light source and pictures will not tell us what it will do. At this point, you'll have to order the sapphire to see it in person.

 

[moak]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

Thanks. I'll probably purchase it to get a look in person then. I was asking about violet purple sapphires in general. I know every one is going to be different, but was wondering if there is a general behavior of the violet purples opposed to purple purples.

I'm supposed to get a video of it today, and I will post that up here as well.

At 6.7mm in diameter its a little bigger than I was told to get (6.5mm being on the large end, 7mm definitely too big) so it may not work anyway and I'll have to check. But with a good return policy, I don't mind paying shipping to get to see it in person.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

There isn't really one way that they behave, because every stone has a different chemical makeup. Violets and purples are some of the rarest and most expensive colors of sapphires (especially lately) so it's very difficult to say. I think your best option is to see it in person and look at it in a variety of lighting situations.

My engagement ring is 6.4mm and because it's a colored stone rather than a diamond, it does not appear as large as it's same-size colorless counterpart.

 

[petit_bijou]

Re: Help picking out deep blue/purple sapphire for center st

I know you prefer sapphire that are purple all the time, but I thought I should post this anyway, since it is STUNNING and also the size you require... If your future fiance will be wearing it under incandescent light, then you'll get to see the purple side more. The blue side also has a violet modifier.

http://thegemtrader.com/Oct14CSSapphirePage.htm