Why is PS slower than 10 yrs ago?

[Karl_K]

It is the price increases that have pushed people down to lower colors and clarity.
When I first started posting on PS you could get a 1ct h-vs2 with a nice setting for around 5k out the door.
How much is that now?
Diamond prices increased in some cases over 12% in under a year and higher color/category rose faster than lower.
Then the first huge rise in prices and that dropped to i/si1 for the same budget then with more price increases to j/si.

When the price increases hit people still wanted 1ct stones and larger so more people tried lower colors and liked them and started recommending them.
There is no grand conspiracy against high color and clarity it as all about budgets and huge price increases in diamond prices that rose far faster then peoples budgets did.

There is nothing stopping non-trade members from recommending smaller higher color/clarity diamonds for peoples budgets.

Between my Wife and I we have 4 diamonds over 10 points. 1 d 1 f 1 i 1 j.

.

 

[arkieb1]

I think there is a general trend for wanting larger diamonds - both on here but also in the real world as well. I blame the cult of celebrity (Kim K, Angelina and many others) all having massive diamond rings, for helping this. Many young women aspire to have the largest diamond they can afford. And something has to give. So for people on a budget mostly who want to find the largest stone they can get THAT is why so many people recommend going down in colour and clarity. I would gladly own an IF or VVS E coloured 5+ carat diamond too, if I could afford it but sadly that isn't going to happen any time soon....

I think people are mistaken in saying that many of the wonderful posters that help newbies out are anti high coloured stones and anti high clarity, they aren't anti them at all - they just know it isn't going to happen on most of unrealistic budgets that people here turn up with.

And for those people/purists who really can notice the colour difference and prefer a .50 E coloured stone over a much larger 1.10+ carat lower coloured one I say great as well - we all have different colour preferences, it's a really personal choice. If someone makes it clear that they cannot live without an ice white stone then everyone directs them to that.

By in large though most people have no clue visually what the difference between an E and an F is and you cannot tell me otherwise. (I bought a parcel of diamonds and sold them about 5 years ago - and I can tell you that mostly people cannot tell jack about the stones other than how much fire and sparkle they do or don't have, the very first thing they notice is size, if they are eyeclean to them, and the last thing they notice unless they are significantly tinted is colour).

When pricescope members say they prefer E coloured diamonds I believe them because they have probably educated themselves to be able to see the difference, for everyone else I think statistically I read somewhere there is only a fairly low percentage (like 5% or lower) of people that can actually tell the difference between an D/E and an F/G anyway.

I will say that most people have a threshold for when a diamond colour is acceptable to them and when it gets into yuck not so much and this threshold is different for everyone and it can change for different cuts of stones. For example many people have a lower threshold for colour in old cuts (I know I do) than they do in modern brilliants.

 

[AGBF]

Between my Wife and I we have 4 diamonds over 10 points. 1 d 1 f 1 i 1 j.

Karl-

Since a 1 carat diamond is over 10 points, I don't really have a sense of the size diamonds that you mean you and your wife own. Can you specify?

This is not the only point in your posting I want to respond to, but I did not want it to get lost, so I isolated it. I will discuss the cost of diamonds in another response.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I don't LIKE MRBs. Except as melee or studs. I find them boring. Yet, you'll see me picking MRB for people all day long.

Gyps-

I have followed your postings and arguments and think you made a wonderful case for the way you educate and help people in Rocky Talky. It seems to me that you are doing posters a great service. I have no doubt whatsoever about that. What irks me-and it is not your fault personally, it is the trend on Pricescope (and possibly in the industry?)- is to see that we now even have an abbreviation like "MRB".

As far as I am concerned, "MRB" is baloney. There are RBs. Round Brilliants. Whoever cooked up the appellation "MRB" for "Modern Round Brilliant" was pandering to the forces Karl mentioned when he said that the shift towards bigger and lower quality stones was due to diamond price increases.

You may be genuinely bored by round brilliants, but most people are just being swept along with the hordes in this new fashion so that so that they can have bigger stones. The use of the term "MRB" is designed to make a buyer feel that if he buys a Round Brilliant, which has been the cut best known for great brilliance and light return in recent years, that he is simply buying another stone equivalent to an Old Mine Cut or an Old European Cut. When I was first buying diamonds, my husband's uncle, who was a jeweler, immediately dismissed those latter cuts for me.Now I'm supposed to swoon over them? Why?

I agree with the poster who quoted someone as saying that Pricescope has become a club for people who like antique low color diamonds. Only I thought that the entire industry had gone that way! If it has not, I am very glad. I hate the trend.

Deb

 

[gregchang35]

Hi Gypsy..

What you do is amazing as others have stated.. to help newbies and other seasoned PSers choose a diamond (fancy or rounds) that fits within their budget. i am sure that members have a ring that they love and/ or their fiancees absolutely treasure. I learn a lot from your posts. However, there are so many facets (see what i did there ) in choosing diamonds of differing cuts, that it is hard to know it all. I am relatively a newbie here and i know what i like and dont like.. and i really appreciate the lengthy posts that you provide for the newbies....

AGBF-i would differ in your opinion on the terminology of MRB.... admittedly, i am only a newbie: the terms of MRB, OMC, transitional, AVR, OECs and so on, are great (sub) classifications for me to understand how the round brilliant cut stones have evolved. It also helps me to understand what i see and what i like. To my relatively newbies eyes: the older cuts look and perform differently. I think for all round cut diamonds to be classified as just round brilliants, is not just. I look at the round brilliants having different sub categories to differentiate the cuts that do exist OMC, MRB, transitionals etc.

To me, the MRBs have more a splintery/ faster flash where the older cuts have a broader/ slower flash. My first love was/is the generic asscher/ square cut emerald. I have seen a lot of the (modern) round brilliant cuts and they didn't grab me at all. It wasnt till i saw the generic asscher, that i fell in love. I didnt understand why at first. And, when i saw an OEC it cemented for me that i preferred the broader flashes. What i am trying to say is that without these (industry or otherwise) classifications of round brilliant cuts, people may get confused about what round diamonds they are talking about. Maybe, i did get caught up with the fashion of the older cuts. But, i know that i love the broad flashes of the older cuts. I also know that there are also older cuts that i like and some that i don't.

if ppl want to get bigger diamonds and the only way that their budget would allow is to get an older cut diamond at a lower colour; i think that it is ok. they get what they want in the end. some ppl follow trends and some ppl dont.

i do not want to offend you with my post, as i believe that you are a seasoned PSer, and have a lot to contribute; compared to me as only a newbie.

Greg

 

[vintagelover229]

Fly by post since I'm mobile but I've followed this thread with great interest. Having just sold my 1.64 H VVS1 stone instead of paying to recut it myself for a small investment which would have yielded by the diamond industry's standard a more rare and valuable diamond after an ideal cut makeover it will be a 1.5 H VVS1 potentially IF stone-I sold it for a good price (less than had I recut if myself) and bought myself (for twice the price I paid for the stone to begin with) a 1.64 N SI AVR.

I heard that there was chatter off the boards about how foolish I was to sell my diamond and get something worth so much less-and that they would have just kept it and recut it and bought a generic OEC. While this is possible for many PSers for us-having thousands of $ wrapped up into-well a rock-with my lifestyle and other things just take priority currently.

My first diamond was a .85 I SI1 cushette then upgraded to a 1.31 J SI2 AVC which has since been sold (4500.00 wasn't much less than I paid although you can't touch that for anywhere close to that price now).

The 1.64 H was only an excellent cut stone and I liked having something of higher color and clarity for a while-but after seeing many lower color OECs and owning lower (smaller) OECs and omcs I knew that is much prefer the AVR even with the 'downgrade' in the color and clarity department.

To be quite frank I don't give a rats a** that the industry says one diamond is worth more than another bc of xyz which is who I took the money we got back and thought hot dog-I just got nearly half of what we paid for my ring BACK and got the same size AVR to boot-score!

While others think that's silly woman just took a diamond after a recut valued at 25k+ and bought a yellow ideal cut stone not worth 10k-she's nutso!

To that I say-to each their own. When push comes to shove and people are needing to sell their rocks to pay their bills they'll only get what someone can and will pay-which will be some what determined by the market prices then-but more likely whatever the best offer is. Things are really only worth what someone is willing to pay for them and if there is no one buying bc one one can afford it-then the smaller diamonds no matter what color and clarity will have such a small market bc those who still can afford diamonds will be spending a lot more buying up the much larger diamonds anyways.


So all in all but what you want. I personally think for Jane Dow who probably would have wound up with a diamond from the mall will be quite happy with a J SI ideal cut diamond and most are not walking attuned trying to compare their rings side by side to see the color and clarity difference anyways-but I assure you they'll notice rh sparkle factor in similar lighting conditions if they care enough to pay attention.

Btw I've been around almost 10 years now-so I've seen the threads ebb and flow. Yellow gold and marquise diamonds are also making a come back and I personally have been making the switch to YG myself when years ago I hated it.

I also love me some gemstones but no bling budget for that yet lol!

 

[Karl_K]

Between my Wife and I we have 4 diamonds over 10 points. 1 d 1 f 1 i 1 j.

Karl-

Since a 1 carat diamond is over 10 points, I don't really have a sense of the size diamonds that you mean you and your wife own. Can you specify?

This is not the only point in your posting I want to respond to, but I did not want it to get lost, so I isolated it. I will discuss the cost of diamonds in another response.

Deb

Hi Deb :}
.15f .72d .42j .21i
I just added it as an after thought to show that we owned both high and lower colored diamonds.

 

[Karl_K]

I agree with the poster who quoted someone as saying that Pricescope has become a club for people who like antique low color diamonds. Only I thought that the entire industry had gone that way! If it has not, I am very glad. I hate the trend.

Deb

There is enough information on the forums from the years past that someone who didn't want to post can learn enough to get a near graduate level education on RBs.
Not so much with fancies.
Keep in mind that far less than 1% of the visitors to PS ever post anything. Most read, learn and move on.

 

[sarahb]

Keep in mind that far less than 1% of the visitors to PS ever post anything. Most read, learn and move on.

That is stunning...I had no idea it was that low!

 

[kenny]

Wow, Karl.
Just wow.

Your shocked?
I have defended you when you were unfairly attacked and or talked about both in public and private because I like and respect you.
Did you not think I would do the same for others that I like and respect?

I make no apologies for liking some posters here more than others but my goal is to set my personal likes aside and focus on the topic.
Goal: Every post a person makes stands alone.
It shouldn't matter if a post was posted by my most or least favorite PS member.

I work hard to give no weight to 'loyalty'.
This is VERY VERY different from how many people operate.
Most people's priority is supporting their friends and working against their enemies so they just let bad stuff slide if it was posted by a person they like but challenge the exact same thing from poster they don't like.

This is my way.

How much I like Gypsy has no bearing on my above post to her.

Once again, it ain't personal.
It's about the topic.
If a person posts something that is good grist for the mill of that topic I'll use it to discuss the topic.

In my mind it is all about the topic, not the person.
Likewise I attempt to put my ego aside when posts are made 'against' things I post.




I respect people more if they also call out bad stuff I post here, instead of always being a 'loyal' friend.
I'd never be a good gang member.

 

[Karl_K]

Once again, it ain't personal.
It's about the topic.
If a person posts something that is good grist for the mill of that topic I'll use it to discuss the topic.

In my mind it is all about the topic, not the person.
Likewise I attempt to put my ego aside when posts are made 'against' things I post.

In your mind it may not be personal but what you posted is certainly personal.

The key word in what I said is "unfairly" read it again.

 

[kenny]

Once again, it ain't personal.
It's about the topic.
If a person posts something that is good grist for the mill of that topic I'll use it to discuss the topic.

In my mind it is all about the topic, not the person.
Likewise I attempt to put my ego aside when posts are made 'against' things I post.

In your mind it may not be personal but what you posted is certainly personal.

The key word in what I said is "unfairly" read it again.

No Karl.
You, like the vast majority of admired people in our culture, put loyalty to people first.
If my brother steals something I'm just as likely to report him to the police as if a stranger did the same thing.
It's called ethics.

I'm not saying that's good, bad, right, or wrong.
That's just my way.

My goal is to judge every post independently from who posted it.

 

[Gypsy]

I don't LIKE MRBs. Except as melee or studs. I find them boring. Yet, you'll see me picking MRB for people all day long.

Gyps-

I have followed your postings and arguments and think you made a wonderful case for the way you educate and help people in Rocky Talky. It seems to me that you are doing posters a great service. I have no doubt whatsoever about that. What irks me-and it is not your fault personally, it is the trend on Pricescope (and possibly in the industry?)- is to see that we now even have an abbreviation like "MRB".

As far as I am concerned, "MRB" is baloney. There are RBs. Round Brilliants. Whoever cooked up the appellation "MRB" for "Modern Round Brilliant" was pandering to the forces Karl mentioned when he said that the shift towards bigger and lower quality stones was due to diamond price increases.

You may be genuinely bored by round brilliants, but most people are just being swept along with the hordes in this new fashion so that so that they can have bigger stones. The use of the term "MRB" is designed to make a buyer feel that if he buys a Round Brilliant, which has been the cut best known for great brilliance and light return in recent years, that he is simply buying another stone equivalent to an Old Mine Cut or an Old European Cut. When I was first buying diamonds, my husband's uncle, who was a jeweler, immediately dismissed those latter cuts for me.Now I'm supposed to swoon over them? Why?

I agree with the poster who quoted someone as saying that Pricescope has become a club for people who like antique low color diamonds. Only I thought that the entire industry had gone that way! If it has not, I am very glad. I hate the trend.

Deb

I totally get it. I hate skinny jeans. HATE THEM.

You like what you like. Trends come in waves. Sometimes people like everything new/modern/cutting edge. Sometimes they appreciate age and craftsmanship of generations gone on before. I try not to judge as much as I can. Unless a guy is going completely superbowl ring or against his lady's wishes.

I do think Karl had the best point. Diamonds have gone REALLY UP in prices. So that has definitely impacted what we recommend.

We do the best we can. But we certainly can't make everyone happy all the time. I wish we could.

You know I love you, Deb.

 

[Gypsy]

Hi Gypsy..

What you do is amazing as others have stated.. to help newbies and other seasoned PSers choose a diamond (fancy or rounds) that fits within their budget. i am sure that members have a ring that they love and/ or their fiancees absolutely treasure. I learn a lot from your posts. However, there are so many facets (see what i did there ) in choosing diamonds of differing cuts, that it is hard to know it all. I am relatively a newbie here and i know what i like and dont like.. and i really appreciate the lengthy posts that you provide for the newbies....


Greg

HI. It's a lot to keep track of, for sure. If you ever need information I can provide let me know. I'd be happy to help you.

And also, I'd love it if you felt like posting on RT. We all have to start somewhere.

 

[gregchang35]

H Gypsy,

I will try and post... cant guarantee tho. dont want to confuse newbies either! LOL

Will definitely ask for help.. but i think i shy away and stick to the signature lines/ ideal/ super ideal etc..- to avoid a ' bad' decision... heheheeh.

 

[Dancing Fire]

There are currently 100 user and 853 guests online.
Who are the 853 guests are they spies?..

 

[kenny]

There are currently 100 user and 853 guests online.
Who are the 853 guests are they spies?..

DF, they are our adoring fans.
Take a bow.

 

[SB621]

Why don't people post anymore on PS. Well a few reasons in my opinion

1- I'm SO SICK of the vendor pushing. Want an XYZQRST blah blah blah then the same handful of vendors are recommended doesn't matter if it is their style or not. Got a 2k budget for everything and still people are pushing handforged rings- I mean come on. I love reading about great experiences but no one posts their bad experiences anymore in fear of a pile on. I have a strong dislike for a certain PS vendor from a bad experience years ago. I still recommend him though for colored diamonds as his pricing is good and he has options. To me PS is about giving options and I think everyone is sick of the same posters doing nothing but say "go to my favorite vendor everything he/ she does is wonderful"

2- The private FB's groups are way more active and I enjoy them. They are smaller groups where ppl have the same interests I do with diamonds (typically older cuts). I would definitely disagree there has been a lull in buying. I think people just have zero interest anymore in sharing on PS. And of course the privacy issue but that has already been mentioned.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Why don't people post anymore on PS. Well a few reasons in my opinion

1- I'm SO SICK of the vendor pushing. Want an XYZQRST blah blah blah then the same handful of vendors are recommended doesn't matter if it is their style or not. Got a 2k budget for everything and still people are pushing handforged rings- I mean come on. I love reading about great experiences but no one posts their bad experiences anymore in fear of a pile on. I have a strong dislike for a certain PS vendor from a bad experience years ago. I still recommend him though for colored diamonds as his pricing is good and he has options. To me PS is about giving options and I think everyone is sick of the same posters doing nothing but say "go to my favorite vendor everything he/ she does is wonderful"

2- The private FB's groups are way more active and I enjoy them. They are smaller groups where ppl have the same interests I do with diamonds (typically older cuts). I would definitely disagree there has been a lull in buying. I think people just have zero interest anymore in sharing on PS. And of course the privacy issue but that has already been mentioned.

I only recommend good vendors whom I have had purchased from in the past.

 

[Calliecake]

Hi Lanakane,

I loved your post as much as I love your avatar, which had me laughing out loud!!! My diamonds would not be considered anything special by Pricescope standards but guess what, I still love them. I've learned much from reading posts by Gypsy, Neil, Diamond Seeker and the others who help everyone selecte stones. When the day comes to make another large purchase, I pray they will all chime in and steer me in the right direction.

Quit saying your a dog! I think your lovely!!! I also think your husband is one lucky man. I hope you continue to post! There are many fun, wonderful people here.

Callie

 

[AGBF]

**edited at request of poster**

I found your posting interesting, lanakane, for a lot of different reasons. For one thing, I do not recall ever hearing the MIT/Harvard analogy on Pricescope before. Show Me The Bling is one of the forums I visit the least and you say it it is where you spend the most time and yet neither of us spends much time in Rocky Talky. You posted a very thoughtful, and I thought unique, way of choosing a diamond. And then there is the bombshell...about your skin color. You state it as "fact" that millions (of people) believe your husband (is he white?) "settled" by marrying you. I certainly hope that you are wrong! You must have endured a lot of discrimination to have become so certain that so many people hold such an opinion, and for that I am very sorry. If you have read Hangout during the years you have been reading Pricescope, I am sure that you have read stories by others of our members who have been discriminated against due to skin color or racial background. It's a really ugly phenomenon that shouldn't be striking human beings.

Hugs,
Deb/AGBF

 

[ame]

I loved everything about that post! And the avatar is AWESOME.

 

[ame]

Hi, Callie! To be clear, I am not just in love with my diamond... I'm obsessed in a way that only my dearest friends who know this is my one luxury "thing" can appreciate. Nothing and no one on this board (or in real life) takes away from that or, so far, has even attempted to! I was more trying, perhaps too elliptically, to get across that because this object I adore does not fall 100% in line with the established idea of "best" according to PS, I posted in SMTB instead of RT. The forums have different spirits and intents and once I had made my decision, I was interested in the spirit of the former. You are so kind to offer your words of support. I'm sending you lots of good karma and e-hugs.

Hi, Deb! I definitely have faced/still face a great deal of discrimination, but in no way do I BELIEVE that my race makes me inferior. Bigots are going to have to try wayyyyy harder to get me to swallow that line. So my opinion of myself is that I am pretty darn awesome. The "dog" comment was meant to convey that I recognize that in many societies (including the one in which I was born and raised) white skin is the beauty standard and, therefore, the closer one comes to that, the better. My husband and I strongly disagree, but we know that we do not live in a vacuum and there are certainly millions of people who show this bias by purchasing/selling/creating deadly skin lighteners, perpetuating hate propaganda (in word, deed, and law), making casting/TV and film financing/distribution choices which elevate whiteness, cosmetic and magazine PR which promote light, lighter, and lightest, etc. Heck, even criminals with lighter skin receive, on average, less harsh sentences. But that's a rant/academic exercise for another forum. I just wanted you and anyone else reading to know that in no way do I ACCEPT the "less than" labels applied to me because I am brown. I simply navigate the world with an awareness of them and found it an apt comparison to how everyone defines beauty differently when selecting diamonds. That said, tons of sunshine and appreciation coming your way from me. What a sweet post.

Hi, ame! Thanks so much! I've read a lot of your posts both here and on TPF. Thank you for being such a rad contributor!!!

And yes, as I slowwwwwly dip my toe in the posting waters, I'm finding it to be quite fun. I plan to keep posting as long as it remains fun. After 14 hours at work in the vipers' nest, it's nice to look at pretty things, and give compliments that I hope are bringing others big, big smiles.

Aw thanks! Welcome aboard.

You are getting some serious applause from me right now for those words. I am hugging my Mac as we speak. I am sure I look insane. Nothing new!

So glad to have you here (and there!)

 

[monarch64]

Lanakane, read your post earlier this afternoon and got sidetracked before I could respond. I really enjoyed reading what you wrote. I also have an F oval with a bowtie and have never posted a thread on it because some stats don't fall into "acceptable PS parameters" as I would call them. Nothing against PS, but I just didn't feel like putting my stone out there for public scrutiny in an environment that is so particular. I love PS and all its knowledge and guidance but we chose to go a different route than what would've been suggested here. I was a seasoned member back when my husband and I got engaged, and mentioned the site to him, but he was well versed in diamonds and gemstones, had even done some bench work as a hobby on his own, so he did just fine on his own. I hang around because I have a history on this site and with the posters and couple of vendors. I'm glad you chimed in on this thread and provided your perspective. Thanks, and hope to hear more from you.

 

[msop04]

I loved everything about that post! And the avatar is AWESOME.

This!! +10000000000000000!!!

 

[MissGotRocks]

PS has evolved - just like everything else in life. It's posts like yours Lana that breathes new life into the place!

Welcome and thanks for your insight - another perspective is always thought provoking and interesting!!

 

[sarahb]

I loved reading your post Lana--so eloquent, welcome & hope the 'see' you around!

 

[Gypsy]

Lana, I am so happy that you love your diamond. I always get so upset when people who were previously thrilled with their stones come on here and after doing some reading start to dislike something they hate because of what they've read on here.

My own asscher doesn't have a great ASET. And I love my ring.

I think it speaks to your strength of character that you love your ring no matter what. Because you are right, what matters is how you feel about a luxury item. And you love yours and nothing should change that.

OUr advice on RT is to people who are A) unhappy with what they have (hopefully) because of the performance they themselves have identified (before coming on PS) or people who are buying for someone else.

As you see on SMTB after purchase all that matters to us is that you love your diamond.

And while I would love to take credit for the University analogy, this is where that comes from: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-grading-report if you read the portion between the two lab reports.

I do hope you'll post here more often. And welcome!

 

[Gypsy]

I was surfing one of the million jewelry-heavy sites I browse when I'm bored (The Bee? Pinterest? I can't remember...) and came across a photo that I instantly recognized as "Gypsy's stack with the half-point melee halo." Twas then that I knew I needed a break from PS before my best friend (husband) had me committed.

 

[LaraOnline]

I've just sat down and, for the first time, read through this entire thread.
I have to say, I *do* like this community.

But this thread ironically seems to encapsulate some aspects that I like not so much.
Smithcompton was critiqued for naming particular posters - and then she herself was deliberately targeted and critiqued right down to her jewellery collection!
Also, as far as I am aware, SI2 diamonds, low colour diamonds, wonky OMCs and large diamonds are all costly, all beautiful and all diamonds, just as much as ideal cut D /IF ones are...yes the market is evolving and partly as a result of internet communication it becoming more complex. I say that's a good thing.

It goes without saying, that in an international internet community such as this, there *will* be a variety of perspectives.
Surely PS is like a buffet - each opinion or 'dish' does not reflect on the dishes alongside, and one can pick and choose as each sees fit!
Or perhaps a newspaper, where different opinions come in and go out of fashion...