Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh in?

[BlueWinters]

I am looking to buy a rough sapphire, one that can later be cut into a round gem. I am aware that it is better to just buy a cut gem, given the uncertainty of what may be produced from a rough, but there is a personal reason to this.

I have my eye on these stones, and would really appreciate it if more experienced eyes could judge their potential for a nice round gem based on what few pictures there are:

#1: http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_36&products_id=1227
#2: http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_36&products_id=934
#3: http://blazengems.com/retail/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83_36&products_id=1007
#4: https://www.etsy.com/listing/202006085/68ct-montana-usa-blue-natural-sapphire?ref=sr_gallery_7&ga_search_query=montana+sapphire+rough&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

Please note: the color is specific to Montana sapphires, I realize most lean towards the darker blues but I prefer this "icy light blue" color. I particularly hope a cutter would give her/his opinion on the clarity of #4, as that one is not mentioned (VVS/VS/IS).

I realize it may be difficult to judge by a single picture in the case of #1-3, but I hope to get an idea with the mere color/size/shape. If anything, I want to get an idea of the typical proportions needed for a rough to result in a nicely sized round gem, one fit for a ring.

If anyone has more websites where I can browse more rough sapphires, please include them . Thanks in advance.

 

[chrono]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

Because you have named who the vendor is, Trade members (lapidaries) are not allowed to comment on another member's stone/rough. You can, however, contact the lapidaries off PS to ask for assistance. I do not feel experienced enough to make a guess as to what they will cut.

I wish there is a "typical" proportion to advise, but there isn't. Certain rough shapes are best suited to certain final shapes such as round, oval, etc. To force it otherwise will mean major rough loss. With sapphires, there is also colour zoning to consider, which may force a lapidary to cut a specific shape or design to work around this. I don't know what size you are looking for but since Blaze is under consideration and is willing to cut the rough, why not contact him and give him your particulars to see what he suggests?

 

[BlueWinters]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

Because you have named who the vendor is, Trade members (lapidaries) are not allowed to comment on another member's stone/rough. You can, however, contact the lapidaries off PS to ask for assistance. I do not feel experienced enough to make a guess as to what they will cut.

Thanks for the heads up, was not aware of that - does that mean they cannot respond to this question at all, or can they at least tell me where to contact them?

I wish there is a "typical" proportion to advise, but there isn't. Certain rough shapes are best suited to certain final shapes such as round, oval, etc. To force it otherwise will mean major rough loss. With sapphires, there is also colour zoning to consider, which may force a lapidary to cut a specific shape or design to work around this. I don't know what size you are looking for but since Blaze is under consideration and is willing to cut the rough, why not contact him and give him your particulars to see what he suggests?

He did give me his suggestions, and he said #1-3 could make good round gems. I mostly created this thread to get additional opinions, but mostly on #4 given that its clarity is not graded, was hoping to get that cleared up (can cutters identify that or are they not allowed to either?).

 

[deskjockey]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

I don't know much of anything about evaluating rough. I like the 1st and 3rd you posted but the third one in particular I'd be unsure of yield given the dimensions of the rough.

There have been some recent posts, though, from someone who bought some rough from that source and had it cut with very nice results:

rough:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/montana-sapphire-rough.201884/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/montana-sapphire-rough.201884/[/URL]

cut stone:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teal-montana-sapphire-by-jerry.204860/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teal-montana-sapphire-by-jerry.204860/[/URL]

some more rough:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-montana-family.204262/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-montana-family.204262/[/URL]

(did I miss where these came back? so curious!)

That poster worked with Jerry Newman, who is great and would probably have some ideas for you.

As for other sources you could try contacting Mountain Momma on etsy, I don't think she sells rough but she has access to it and is great to deal with. Maybe priced a little higher than blaze.

 

[BlueWinters]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

I don't know much of anything about evaluating rough. I like the 1st and 3rd you posted but the third one in particular I'd be unsure of yield given the dimensions of the rough.

There have been some recent posts, though, from someone who bought some rough from that source and had it cut with very nice results:

rough:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/montana-sapphire-rough.201884/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/montana-sapphire-rough.201884/[/URL]

cut stone:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teal-montana-sapphire-by-jerry.204860/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/teal-montana-sapphire-by-jerry.204860/[/URL]

some more rough:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-montana-family.204262/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-montana-family.204262/[/URL]

(did I miss where these came back? so curious!)

That poster worked with Jerry Newman, who is great and would probably have some ideas for you.

As for other sources you could try contacting Mountain Momma on etsy, I don't think she sells rough but she has access to it and is great to deal with. Maybe priced a little higher than blaze.

This is a great reply! It is exciting to see the transformation of the rough into that beautiful gem, and certainly helps to give an idea. Thank you for the suggestions as well, will be attempting to make contact.

 

[BlueWinters]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

That poster worked with Jerry Newman, who is great and would probably have some ideas for you.

Just wanted to update on the situation, Jerry Newman was extremely helpful in his response and answered my questions, I cannot thank you enough jockey, for the recommendation. Cheers!

 

[chrono]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

I would like to second Jerry as an excellent lapidary who is also open to faceting a customer's rough and stone.

 

[deskjockey]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

There's another nice before/after with some of Blaze's rough here:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-19#post-3756534#p3756534']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-19#post-3756534#p3756534[/URL]

Scroll down to DandT's post. (the same stone is also in the sticky eyecandy thread at the top of the forum, but in the finished ring).

 

[SparkliesLuver]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

Here's another site for rough. Logan's very open about what he sees and he's quite responsive. *Not sure if you're 100% set on Montana rough. If so, please disregard.

http://www.africangemstones.co.za/plate14.htm

 

[ephsea]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

#4 has what looks to be a crack through the middle, although that does not mean the remaining material can't produce a gem. #1 also very clearly has that huge crack, which Blaze has deliberately shown in the photo (an honest guy!), but should still have enough leftover to produce a nice light blue stone. #3 is actually the wrong photo (picture is of a 17ct. piece listed elsewhere on website.) #4 is only 4mm thick, so would produce only a very small gem, < 1ct. or have a huge window if cut larger. I would think #1 is the best bet, but it IS a bet, and a blind one without a lapidary to inspect it upon reciept. I would have a piece or a whole parcel sent to Jerry for inspection, then let him pick the piece that he thinks is best suited for your project, and return the others.
"Cutting rough is always a risk." -Jeremy Newman- via. on of our emails.

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

It is really impossible to evaluate a rough stone online, even harder from a single picture. Most people when buying rough this way, buy for quality stones from reputable dealers they have bought from before so they know the seller's photography style and descriptors. It is entirely impossible to impose a final shape on a stone that you've never had in hand. A perfect round can be cut from any rough if you are willing to lose 98% of the weight! Getting the right cut to the stone with the color oriented nicely and the best weight retention comes after evaluating the stone with a penlight in one hand and some immersion fluid to let you see deep inside. If there is a crack or veil inside that you don't know about it could end up in the center of your stone, or cause the stone to break while cutting. On average, a well shaped rough may yield a stone retaining 25-40 % the original weight. Of course there are some outside of either side of that range. Looking for stones that are compact and of good proportions, without any amoeba appendages (unless you are making an amoeba shaped stone) is a good place to start. The seller offers a 10 day inspection period, which is very good. I like Montana sapphires. #3 is too thin. #1 could be nice but may lose a lot of weight. #2 looks good to me. #4 is cabbing grade.

 

[ephsea]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

*Edit* #3 is too thin, it's #2 that has the wrong picture posted on Blaze's site. Sorry too many tabs open

 

[D&T]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

Hi There,

I had a Montana rough piece from Blaze cut into the shape I had wanted, however I need to say this. This whole rough picking by consumer is not for the faint of heart due to many reasons.

Blaze sent me numerous pictures of the rough and dimensions, I can only say "what I think looks good in terms of color and size that I think "will cut" and had to figure out the math (conservative) on my yield expectancy and sent it off to Jerry he said yay or nay. However, even if I had what looks to be an IF or VVS stone there were other nuances that a cutter cannot detect until cutting, like for example my rough had some very fine silk in it, which you can't determine from pictures or a consumer standpoint and a cutter might be able to before cutting, or not? then I got an email on a Fracture during the pre stage of cutting the pavilion from Jerry--- WHAT!!? well Jerry could have cut it all out, which would have given me a much smaller gem, however he was able to save polish out and hope that it would not continue... whew---which it did not, it is not surface reaching, and I was on the fence about continuing this project - for a split second but Jerry assured me that setting the gem part would not harm or wearing the gem would not harm or create any more problem for my sapphire. If any problems arise you will soon find out upon the final polishing stage of the gem.

So that is my story and would I do it again?... I'm a bit apprehensive about it due to this experience and its not cheap but I figured that I'd lost a lot of money with other projects in the past with a bunch of resets, that I'm willing to "gamble" in hopes to get my kiddo's fav color and my dream asscher cut sapphire in the color and size I wanted but of course some things were out of my control on the inclusion during the cutting process. I thought I had an IF-VVS1 rough to begin with but ended up with a rather large inclusion though no one can see it due to my mounting and only if pointed it out since it is masked in the facet for the most part. The color is another story- I was lucky as this was exactly what I was looking for, I had saved other cut gems colors on a collage and sent them to Blaze. not all green, but with blue in it, there is gray which is common with Montanas and I've had a few before so I knew what I was getting into.

What I did love about this whole process was that I knew exactly where my rough was coming from and it is Unheated and natural and I literally get to see the whole process from scratch to finished jewelry.

For your project, roughs that cuts rounds are more plentiful than roughs that can cut fancy shapes like an square cut emerald/asscher. But there are also more available round cut facet gems out on the market too. But if you want the whole experience and story line, then this might be something for you, however you'll need to have a different type of expectation on possible nuances/issues that cutting a rough might come with, or you'll get exactly what you want or you can lose it all but just make sure you are ok with possible loss (if something were to happen and the gem might explode or crack- not trying to scare you but be fully aware of all possibilities).... Its a gamble that you need to evaluate yourself whether its a risk you want to take not only financially but emotionally, especially for you if you plan on keeping this rough for sometime before cutting it.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[D&T]

Re: Thoughts on these rough sapphires? Cutters care to weigh

I'd Nix #3. that 4.1mm is too shallow for a depth in rounds looking possibly smaller than 5.9mm in dimension in a finished piece. I like 1 & 2 the best. color might be a deciding factor, and possible yield/size