Ebola arrives in America tomorrow on a fancy private jet

[packrat]

I hated the new electronic records we converted to at the office. Hated. We switched twice in 8 years, and I don't know what it's like currently since I've been out of there 2.5 years now but holy moly. To print X, click here, pick this from the drop down menu, click this from this menu, click this from this menu, click on this side to get to this and aha here it is, click to highlight, click to print, click print, click ok, wait to print, and the whole time the patient is standing there tapping their fingers on the counter.

Ours anyway, marked a time stamp if anything that had been signed off on by the provider was changed, showed what was changed, what it was changed to, who did it, and the time/date.

 

[JaneSmith]

Phase 1 trials begin on an Ebola vaccine.
http://www.canada.com/health/Canadian+made+Ebola+vaccine+start+clinical+trials+healthy+humans/10285924/story.html?__federated=1

 

[TC1987]

Second Texas healthcare worker has tested positive for ebola. As yet unnamed, but was one of the team who treated Duncan.

The Chinese say they have a new vaccine.

 

[Trekkie]

Second Texas healthcare worker has tested positive for ebola. As yet unnamed, but was one of the team who treated Duncan.

The Chinese say they have a new vaccine.

I was just coming to post this: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us/ebola-outbreak-texas.html?_r=0

Are people in Texas worried? I realise no one can speak for everyone, but what is the general feeling out there? The media reports I've read indicate that some people are panicking, but I realise how misleading the media can be.

I live in a small university town out here in South Africa and around 20% of our students and staff are international, mostly from other parts of Africa. Many students from Zambia and Zimbabwe drive or take buses to get here (2-3 day trips) so they aren't being scanned at airports. Our academic year ends at the end of November and then we have our summer hiatus. We're all hoping that by the time the students and international staff return at the end of January/early February, the outbreak will be under control.

In the meanwhile we've stocked up on black bags: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/25/health/ebola-fatu-family/

Distracts, Ksinger and others who posted about the difficulty of getting the suit off without touching the outside, thank you for that information. It made for interesting - if hair raising - reading.

 

[iLander]

Why don't they hose of the suits before removal?

Does anyone know why they don't do this?

And WHO has said that the number of ebola cases will double every three months.

Double.

Swell.

I think we need to quarantine all of west Africa. Travel next year. This year, no go.

 

[tyty333]

They are now saying the death rate may be as high as 70% (instead of 50%).

I'm sure (I hope) in the US our death rate will be a lot lower.

I was kind of surprised that they had 70 people working on Thomas Dunkin. I would have thought they would limit it to
a much smaller team just to keep the possible exposures to a minimum.

Our government really needs to do more (IMO) here in the US. I'm not sure about what to do in Liberia and the other countries.
I dont think sending our military over there is the right thing to do (picture a bunch of 18-23 year old soldiers dealing with
ebola.) If 2 nurses who are well educated, well trained, and understand the ramifications can get it then what are the chances
of these 18-23 year olds. Almost a death sentence in my opinion.

Keeping fingers crossed that the miracle vaccine the world needs is not far off. In the mean time we need more regulations.

 

[Trekkie]

Why don't they hose of the suits before removal?

Does anyone know why they don't do this?

And WHO has said that the number of ebola cases will double every three months.

Double.

Swell.

I think we need to quarantine all of west Africa. Travel next year. This year, no go.

I have no idea why they don't hose off suits and I wonder if it is even possible to do so. I've also read (but can't remember where so I have no idea how accurate this is) that the virus can only live outside the body for a short time. I'm wondering why it's not possible to just stand somewhere and chill for however long it takes for the virus to die and then remove the suit?

I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if this is even possible, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable (distracts?) can chime in and let us know.

They are now saying the death rate may be as high as 70% (instead of 50%).

I'm sure (I hope) in the US our death rate will be a lot lower.

I was kind of surprised that they had 70 people working on Thomas Dunkin. I would have thought they would limit it to
a much smaller team just to keep the possible exposures to a minimum.

Our government really needs to do more (IMO) here in the US. I'm not sure about what to do in Liberia and the other countries.
I dont think sending our military over there is the right thing to do (picture a bunch of 18-23 year old soldiers dealing with
ebola.) If 2 nurses who are well educated, well trained, and understand the ramifications can get it then what are the chances
of these 18-23 year olds. Almost a death sentence in my opinion.

Keeping fingers crossed that the miracle vaccine the world needs is not far off. In the mean time we need more regulations.

The quotes death rate varies, partly because some are infected and haven't died yet, but mostly because so many are dying at home, going unreported. It is heartbreaking.

Like so many out here I'm grateful that the US is providing manpower to help, but I'm incredibly worried that those kids will become infected and take it back to the US with them. Let's hope that the authorities have thought this through and have plans in place to prevent this.

 

[TC1987]

Now they have ID'd the second person as Amber Joy Vinson, age 29. And she flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before showing symptoms. CDC is asking other passengers to contact CDC.
The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.


http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/

 

[Trekkie]

Now they have ID'd the second person as Amber Joy Vinson, age 29. And she flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before showing symptoms. CDC is asking other passengers to contact CDC.
The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.


http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/

Oh, f***.

Wasn't this nurse meant to be in isolation???

 

[ericad]

Now they have ID'd the second person as Amber Joy Vinson, age 29. And she flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before showing symptoms. CDC is asking other passengers to contact CDC.
The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.


http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/

And what about all the people she was in contact with at the airport, and during the day? CONTAINMENT is the only path to prevention, and she was freaking FLYING?

I'm not one to overreact or lose sleep over media fear mongering, but this is an extremely deadly illness and this kind of lackadaisical sloppiness just makes me !

 

[Trekkie]

Now they have ID'd the second person as Amber Joy Vinson, age 29. And she flew from Cleveland to Dallas the day before showing symptoms. CDC is asking other passengers to contact CDC.
The CDC says she flew Frontier Airlines Flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas/Fort Worth International on October 13, landing at 8:16 Dallas time. The CDC is asking all 132 passengers who flew on that trip to call 1-800-232-4636.


http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/10/cdc-says-second-nurse-diagnosed-with-ebola-flew-from-cleveland-to-dallas-the-day-before-she-reported-symptonms.html/

And what about all the people she was in contact with at the airport, and during the day? CONTAINMENT is the only path to prevention, and she was freaking FLYING?

I'm not one to overreact or lose sleep over media fear mongering, but this is an extremely deadly illness and this kind of lackadaisical sloppiness just makes me !

Right?! Why was this woman not quarantined like Thomas Eric Duncan's family?

I wonder how many of the 48 people being monitored for having been in contact with Thomas Eric Duncan are allowed to fly across the country like this?

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

 

[TC1987]

Oh, f***.

Wasn't this nurse meant to be in isolation???

No, not this second nurse. She wasn't restricted or quarantined before she presented with symptoms. There are now 2 nurses with ebola, contracted at the TX hospital. But if I were a nurse who'd treated an ebola patient, I'd be putting myself under house arrest for the most part. I guess I'm just not the naive and trusting type.

Yes, Erica. When I was in RN school, a hospital-based diploma school, I was disgusted by just how slobby and lackadasically that hospital was run, and by how DIRTY it was all the time. I observed surgery incl. heart valve replacements in the same OR for 2 consecutive days. There was a piece of paper on the floor, inside the sterile field area, and it didn't move an inch during those two days. That means that they not only didn't disinfect daily, they didn't even dry mop! There was a patient with a GI bleed who dripped blood on the bathroom floor. Housekeeping came and wiped it up with a paper town which they threw in the trash. That's a violation of hospital policy, which I reported after I got the bleach mop and mopped the floor myself. I thought that just the working class idiots around here were lax, but I'm starting to think the healthcare industry is overconfident but just doesn't know as much about safety and personnel protection as manufacturing does. Lots of RN schools have focused so much on critical thinking and their NCLEX pass rate, book smarts, but dealing with hazards in hands-on situations is a different skill set than analyzing test questions.

Another thing I hated about that hospital was how they wanted to always give customers the impression that there were never any hazards there, it's perfectly safe, clean, no appreciable threat of nosocomial infections, etc. I thought, in school, that PPE and biohazard training for RNs was really mickeymouse compared to what I got from the chemical industry. I got in a big fight with the RN school director over how grungy that hospital and school were. lol Needless to say, I didn't finish. And I'm glad I didn't. because I'd be quitting nursing ASAP now. Some of my former instructors probably are thinking right now "That B----h saw this coming 4 years ago and she got out!"

 

[ericad]

I seriously think it's our American arrogance that's going to bite us in the ass on this. I suspect the hospital staff believed that by following basic infectious disease protocols there was almost zero risk, and that ebola was an African problem, but would not/could not be a problem here, in the blessed USofA. And I confess, I thought the same thing - that here, with CDC oversight and tight protocols, there would be no threat of infection to the general public. Now, to hear how lax they are and how this infected nurse was out in the world, mingling and flying freely before they knew if she had been infected? GAH! Totally preventable!

Where's the hair pulling emotie...?

I'm still choosing to remain optimistic that she wasn't contagious at the time she flew, that the people she was around will be safe, that both nurses will recover, and that we will see no new cases of transmission. A fool's pipe dream, most likely, but I'm sticking with it.

 

[packrat]

Honestly? I think we in the US think we are invincible. Not even we-we, the powers that be-we. Maybe it's wrong of me, but I don't feel there are ever 100% safeguards 100% of the time that are 100% failsafe when imperfect humans are running the show. IF something were to happen, it would of course be thru no fault of anyone in power/control, it would of course be a random Virgin Mary "it just happened"circumstance. Ain't no way we'd hear "Yaaaaah dudes we *totally* fecked up and took the lives of the entire country for granted for these two people in our arrogance of how incredibly fail safe our fail safes are. oops."

And I read too much b/c the first thing that popped into my head was The Stand. Bring on the Captain Trips!

Well..huh..I didn't get it totally right, but the initial part is. Arrogance, yeah, we gots it. Did we really think nobody flying *to* here *from* there, would be sick? Dumb. It's a good thing we didn't offend anyone by immediately stopping flights or quarantining people flying in. We all have such tender feelings.

 

[ericad]

Honestly? I think we in the US think we are invincible. Not even we-we, the powers that be-we. Maybe it's wrong of me, but I don't feel there are ever 100% safeguards 100% of the time that are 100% failsafe when imperfect humans are running the show. IF something were to happen, it would of course be thru no fault of anyone in power/control, it would of course be a random Virgin Mary "it just happened"circumstance. Ain't no way we'd hear "Yaaaaah dudes we *totally* fecked up and took the lives of the entire country for granted for these two people in our arrogance of how incredibly fail safe our fail safes are. oops."

And I read too much b/c the first thing that popped into my head was The Stand. Bring on the Captain Trips!

Well..huh..I didn't get it totally right, but the initial part is. Arrogance, yeah, we gots it. Did we really think nobody flying *to* here *from* there, would be sick? Dumb. It's a good thing we didn't offend anyone by immediately stopping flights or quarantining people flying in. We all have such tender feelings.

PS needs "like" buttons. Or "thanks" buttons, like other forums have.

 

[azstonie]

I'm EPA HazMat certified at all levels, I was a CERCLA environmental project manager and scientist. I am trained in setting up and running a DCON (decontamination) unit. (Ilander yes, they were supposed to rinse off with chemicals before they desuited themselves.)

I was the sole female in my training and certification classes and the young guys being trained there, many were officers in the military fresh out of college, they thought I was fussy and overly detail oriented. Whatever. They would be the ones who put themselves and others at risk, not me.

The problem is, as has been pointed out,in hospitals the nurses go from patient to patient. They get on a plane and go somewhere when they know they really should not. People are inherently lazy and self indulgent. and they don't want to believe in bad outcomes or tragic outcomes. They think someone else will save them and everyone else from them, so they do what they want in the moment.

Yes, I know that is a dark and cynical perspective but I'm 55 years old and I've been a lot of places including outside of the USA and worked with a lot of different kinds of people.

I just concluded 9 years of employment at the US News & World Report #1 rated hospital in America. And it has a too high MRSA infection rate (comes from not following protocol and frankly filthy conditions) and I would not have an elective operation there or probably anywhere here in the US. My husband, a geologist who has fallen down his share of mountains doing gold exploration, is going to need a hip replacement when he hits 55 or so. We will go to the ortho hospital in Belgium, which will charge half of what that surgery will cost here, he will not get MRSA, and he will not have a leg length discrepancy or flawed prostheses which are the usual parting gifts for US hip replacements.

Its a sad state of affairs here. Our hospitals transmit MRSA and super C diff/C diff, pneumonia, hepatitis C, you name it. Failure to follow sterile protocols. Doctors who won't address dirty operating rooms, treatment rooms, equipment, etc. Just a sad state of affairs all around. Its a throwback to the turn of the century when medical personnel not washing hands and changing clothes were the reason people seeking care got sick or died.

All year, I look forward to going to Tucson Gem & Mineral Show. In January/February, there are Lots of colds and flu there among the vendors from all over the world and the attendees. I won't be attending this coming year out of safety concerns due to unrestrained travel and ebola. I'll really miss going, but I'm going to delay gratification until there is a safety level I have confidence in.

 

[ksinger]

I'm EPA HazMat certified at all levels, I was a CERCLA environmental project manager and scientist. I am trained in setting up and running a DCON (decontamination) unit. (Ilander yes, they were supposed to rinse off with chemicals before they desuited themselves.)

I was the sole female in my training and certification classes and the young guys being trained there, many were officers in the military fresh out of college, they thought I was fussy and overly detail oriented. Whatever. They would be the ones who put themselves and others at risk, not me.

The problem is, as has been pointed out,in hospitals the nurses go from patient to patient. They get on a plane and go somewhere when they know they really should not. People are inherently lazy and self indulgent. and they don't want to believe in bad outcomes or tragic outcomes. They think someone else will save them and everyone else from them, so they do what they want in the moment.

Yes, I know that is a dark and cynical perspective but I'm 55 years old and I've been a lot of places including outside of the USA and worked with a lot of different kinds of people.

I just concluded 9 years of employment at the US News & World Report #1 rated hospital in America. And it has a too high MRSA infection rate (comes from not following protocol and frankly filthy conditions) and I would not have an elective operation there or probably anywhere here in the US. My husband, a geologist who has fallen down his share of mountains doing gold exploration, is going to need a hip replacement when he hits 55 or so. We will go to the ortho hospital in Belgium, which will charge half of what that surgery will cost here, he will not get MRSA, and he will not have a leg length discrepancy or flawed prostheses which are the usual parting gifts for US hip replacements.

Its a sad state of affairs here. Our hospitals transmit MRSA and super C diff/C diff, pneumonia, hepatitis C, you name it. Failure to follow sterile protocols. Doctors who won't address dirty operating rooms, treatment rooms, equipment, etc. Just a sad state of affairs all around. Its a throwback to the turn of the century when medical personnel not washing hands and changing clothes were the reason people seeking care got sick or died.

All year, I look forward to going to Tucson Gem & Mineral Show. In January/February, there are Lots of colds and flu there among the vendors from all over the world and the attendees. I won't be attending this coming year out of safety concerns due to unrestrained travel and ebola. I'll really miss going, but I'm going to delay gratification until there is a safety level I have confidence in.

I wrote the following before you posted, but this will dovetail nicely. Your post kinda puts further paid to the howls of "Why isn't the governement doing MORE??" doesn't it. Sounds like, from what you say, we can't even get CARE providers to give a single damn. Why would the government be able to fix THAT at this late hour?

Post I had ready:

Hey man, our tax cuts and deregulation at work. Thirty years of the drumbeat of "we've got to get regulation off the backs of business" (and medicine is a business, yes?) and this is the end result. The CDC does not have the authority to make sure hospitals comply with official guidelines or best practices. They can educate but not compel. Oh well.

I just spoke to a friend who used to be an ER doc, and is trained in probably the most extensive infectious disease protocol in the country (I don't recall its name - maybe the same thing you did azstonie? but he said the book alone weighed about 5 lbs and was very daunting, and the training very LONG). He was ranting that less that 1/4 of one percent of medical people have been trained in this protocol and the CDC is acting weird and OMGOMGOMG we're all gonna die and why isn't our government doing more??? I'm kinda like WHAT, exactly? Fund the training? Shoot those who refuse? Right. Our government can't even keep itself running, let alone police the hospitals.

Amazing how when things are OK, government is this big evil restricting me and telling me what I should do and freedom is the drumbeat, but the minute things go pear-shaped, people get all in a snit that it's clear there is no standardization anymore and we're all FREE to die. And I didn't ask him why, if medical professionals like him can so much more clearly see the need for certification in this protocol, THEY, as the managers of private businesses that can require what training they deem necessary in their personnel, did not insist on this training BEFORE this issue popped up. (Too expensive and time-consuming perhaps?) If the CDC cannot force, neither can they restrict. Apparently this protocol has been around for quite awhile. Medicine KNOWS how to stop the spread of infectious disease, but it sounds like they are either too cheap or too short-sighted to do the extensive training necessary. Proof positive yet again that the profit motive is a bad mindset when planning for what should be seen as a non-negotiable societal good.

WE as citizens don't need to figure out why they do or don't do such and so, we need to ask why, if medical personnel (like my buddy who RAN the freakin' ER) who are properly trained, clearly see the need for many more others to get that same training to certification levels, they haven't done so.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of government regulation and coercive tactics, especially at a time like this. But we've gutted funding for government research, FDA oversight, USDA inspections, and apparently, de-powered the CDC.

 

[distracts]

TC1987 and Azstonie - That is terrifying. Jesus.

Related:
http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/blog/entry/statement-by-registered-nurses-at-texas-health-presbyterian-hospital-in-dal/

This is an inside story from some registered nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas who have familiarity with what occurred at the hospital following the positive Ebola infection of first the late Thomas Eric Duncan and then a registered nurse who cared for him Nina Pham.

The RNs contacted National Nurses United out of frustration with a lack of training and preparation. They are choosing to remain anonymous out of fear of retaliation.

The RNs who have spoken to us from Texas Health Presbyterian are listening in on this call and this is their report based on their experiences and what other nurses are sharing with them. When we have finished with our statement, we will have time for several questions. The nurses will have the opportunity to respond to your questions via email that they will send to us, that we will read to you.

We are not identifying the nurses for their protection, but they work at Texas Health Presbyterian and have knowledge of what occurred at the hospital.

They feel a duty to speak out about the concerns that they say are shared by many in the hospital who are concerned about the protocols that were followed and what they view were confusion and frequently changing policies and protocols that are of concern to them, and to our organization as well.

When Thomas Eric Duncan first came into the hospital, he arrived with an elevated temperature, but was sent home.

On his return visit to the hospital, he was brought in by ambulance under the suspicion from him and family members that he may have Ebola.

Mr. Duncan was left for several hours, not in isolation, in an area where other patients were present.

No one knew what the protocols were or were able to verify what kind of personal protective equipment should be worn and there was no training.

Subsequently a nurse supervisor arrived and demanded that he be moved to an isolation unit– yet faced resistance from other hospital authorities.

Lab specimens from Mr. Duncan were sent through the hospital tube system without being specially sealed and hand delivered. The result is that the entire tube system by which all lab specimens are sent was potentially contaminated.

There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system. The nurses were asked to call the Infectious Disease Department. The Infectious Disease Department did not have clear policies to provide either.

Initial nurses who interacted with Mr. Duncan nurses wore a non-impermeable gown front and back, three pairs of gloves, with no taping around wrists, surgical masks, with the option of N-95s, and face shields. Some supervisors said that even the N-95 masks were not necessary.

The suits they were given still exposed their necks, the part closest to their face and mouth. They had suits with booties and hoods, three pairs of gloves, no tape.

For their necks, nurses had to use medical tape, that is not impermeable and has permeable seams, to wrap around their necks in order to protect themselves, and had to put on the tape and take it off on their own.

Nurses had to interact with Mr. Duncan with whatever protective equipment was available, at a time when he had copious amounts of diarrhea and vomiting which produces a lot of contagious fluids.

Hospital officials allowed nurses who had interacted with Mr. Duncan to then continue normal patient care duties, taking care of other patients, even though they had not had the proper personal protective equipment while caring for Mr. Duncan.

Patients who may have been exposed were one day kept in strict isolation units. On the next day were ordered to be transferred out of strict isolation into areas where there were other patients, even those with low-grade fevers who could potentially be contagious.

Were protocols breached? The nurses say there were no protocols.

Some hospital personnel were coming in and out of those isolation areas in the Emergency Department without having worn the proper protective equipment.

CDC officials who are in the hospital and Infectious Disease personnel have not kept hallways clean; they were going back and forth between the Isolation Pod and back into the hallways that were not properly cleaned, even after CDC, infectious control personnel, and doctors who exited into those hallways after being in the isolation pods.

ADVANCE PREPARATION

Advance preparation that had been done by the hospital primarily consisted of emailing us about one optional lecture/seminar on Ebola. There was no mandate for nurses to attend trainings, or what nurses had to do in the event of the arrival of a patient with Ebola-like symptoms.

This is a very large hospital. To be effective, any classes would have to offered repeatedly, covering all times when nurses work; instead this was treated like the hundreds of other seminars that are routinely offered to staff.

There was no advance hands-on training on the use of personal protective equipment for Ebola. No training on what symptoms to look for. No training on what questions to ask.

Even when some trainings did occur, after Mr. Duncan had tested positive for Ebola, they were limited, and they did not include having every nurse in the training practicing the proper way to don and doff, put on and take off, the appropriate personal protective equipment to assure that they would not be infected or spread an infection to anyone else.

Guidelines have now been changed, but it is not clear what version Nina Pham had available.

The hospital later said that their guidelines had changed and that the nurses needed to adhere to them. What has caused confusion is that the guidelines were constantly changing. It was later asked which guidelines should we follow? The message to the nurses was it’s up to you.

It is not up to the nurses to be setting the policy, nurses say, in the face of such a virulent disease. They needed to be trained optimally and correctly in how to deal with Ebola and the proper PPE doffing, as well as how to dispose of the waste.

In summary, the nurses state there have been no policies in cleaning or bleaching the premises without housekeeping services. There was no one to pick up hazardous waste as it piled to the ceiling. They did not have access to proper supplies and observed the Infectious Disease Department and CDC themselves violate basic principles of infection control, including cross contaminating between patients. In the end, the nurses strongly feel unsupported, unprepared, lied to, and deserted to handle the situation on their own.

We want our facility to be recognized as a leader in responding to this crisis. We also want to recognize the other nurses as heroes who put their lives on the line for their patients every day when they walk in the door.

THAT is worrying.

 

[azstonie]

It is worrying.

Here's another looming problem:

We have ZERO antibiotics being developed. NONE.

Yes, this in the face of pretty much every antibiotic we have being ineffective now. Resistance is here.

We will shortly be back to a tooth abscess being able to kill us. STDs out of control. Pneumonia will be back as the grim reaper it used to be.

And the pharmaceutical companies are concentrating on erection meds and cosmeceuticals.

You'll not see a diabetes cure in our lifetimes only because diabetes treatment is incredibly lucrative and no pharmaceutical company is going to foregot that profit (glucometers, test strips, meal supplements, insulin/other meds).

I'm completely in favor of government regulation for food, drugs, toxins, etc. I *was* the government regulator in a powerful state (not Arizona) restricting the toxins that were allowed in the soil, air, and water and I can tell you that 'industry' owns our assess. They do what they want, when they want, and they have/make so much money they could care less about fines and in fact, write the fines into their BUDGETS for the fiscal year. So keep voting in business friendly administrations and watch the food we eat become more engineered and dangerous, the air we breathe/water we drink/soil we use for food and to live on top of completely hazardous.

I was watching The Roosevelts on PBS and it struck me that all the governmental regulation Teddy put in place for food and drugs has been completely dismantled. Sad state of affairs. The FDA is a completely neutered agency now.

 

[ericad]

I'm EPA HazMat certified at all levels, I was a CERCLA environmental project manager and scientist. I am trained in setting up and running a DCON (decontamination) unit. (Ilander yes, they were supposed to rinse off with chemicals before they desuited themselves.)

I was the sole female in my training and certification classes and the young guys being trained there, many were officers in the military fresh out of college, they thought I was fussy and overly detail oriented. Whatever. They would be the ones who put themselves and others at risk, not me.

The problem is, as has been pointed out,in hospitals the nurses go from patient to patient. They get on a plane and go somewhere when they know they really should not. People are inherently lazy and self indulgent. and they don't want to believe in bad outcomes or tragic outcomes. They think someone else will save them and everyone else from them, so they do what they want in the moment.

Yes, I know that is a dark and cynical perspective but I'm 55 years old and I've been a lot of places including outside of the USA and worked with a lot of different kinds of people.

I just concluded 9 years of employment at the US News & World Report #1 rated hospital in America. And it has a too high MRSA infection rate (comes from not following protocol and frankly filthy conditions) and I would not have an elective operation there or probably anywhere here in the US. My husband, a geologist who has fallen down his share of mountains doing gold exploration, is going to need a hip replacement when he hits 55 or so. We will go to the ortho hospital in Belgium, which will charge half of what that surgery will cost here, he will not get MRSA, and he will not have a leg length discrepancy or flawed prostheses which are the usual parting gifts for US hip replacements.

Its a sad state of affairs here. Our hospitals transmit MRSA and super C diff/C diff, pneumonia, hepatitis C, you name it. Failure to follow sterile protocols. Doctors who won't address dirty operating rooms, treatment rooms, equipment, etc. Just a sad state of affairs all around. Its a throwback to the turn of the century when medical personnel not washing hands and changing clothes were the reason people seeking care got sick or died.

All year, I look forward to going to Tucson Gem & Mineral Show. In January/February, there are Lots of colds and flu there among the vendors from all over the world and the attendees. I won't be attending this coming year out of safety concerns due to unrestrained travel and ebola. I'll really miss going, but I'm going to delay gratification until there is a safety level I have confidence in.

But, but, BUT the USA has the BESTEST of the BEST healthcare in the whole world!

[yes, I'm being sarcastic]

As the years go by, I'm ever more grateful that my family has dual citizenship with France!

 

[momhappy]

Interesting article on potential airborne transmission of Ebola:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/14/CIDRAP-Confirms-Ebola-Transmittable-by-Air

 

[azstonie]

KSinger said: I wrote the following before you posted, but this will dovetail nicely. Your post kinda puts further paid to the howls of "Why isn't the governement doing MORE??" doesn't it. Sounds like, from what you say, we can't even get CARE providers to give a single damn. Why would the government be able to fix THAT at this late hour?

Me: I used to believe that self-interest would keep medical personnel observing protocols. Boy, I was simple minded. The number of docs, nurses, medical assistants, techs, therapists etc with MRSA, C diff, hepatitis C, parvo,you name it is staggering. They exposed themselves by not following protocols.

For those of you who are careful, ask your surgeons/docs/providers/nurses/techs if they have MRSA, etc., or any communicable disease.

I have to ask my providers every.single.time to wash their hands when they come in my treatment room/before touching me. (Handwashing done right is superior to Purell. Purell requires a sufficient amount plus adequate contact time ). I have had to remind proceduralists to glove up before they treat me (my last gyn exam the doctor was about to proceed with with a pelvic exam without gloving up). When went to the ED for my broken leg/broken knee, a medical assistant came at me barehanded with ointment on her index finger to rub into my road-rashed elbow. She was OFFENDED when I said get a glove on first! Her bare finger into my wound. SHE should have been worried about anything I might have. NOPE!

Rant over but you get the idea. Its all out the window when it comes to assuming patient-protecting protocols from your healthcare providers.

 

[ponder]

So... Now I'm reading that nurse#2 called the CDC multiple times before boarding the plane to see if it was ok to fly. She was given the OK because her temperature had not yet reached the the magic 101.5F that she now suddenly becomes contagious. Seriously??

 

[caf]

So... Now I'm reading that nurse#2 called the CDC multiple times before boarding the plane to see if it was ok to fly. She was given the OK because her temperature had not yet reached the the magic 101.5F that she now suddenly becomes contagious. Seriously??

Nurse 2 went to Cleveland to do prep for her wedding. She asked the CDC a number of times if she could fly with a temp of 99.5. They said yes. Unbelieveable. They have put hundreds more at risk. And they also tried to blame her for her flying saying she should not have been but she asked them over and over. This goes from bad to worse. And it is very disheartening that the people in charge don't know what is going on on the ground, so to speak.

 

[TC1987]

...
Me: I used to believe that self-interest would keep medical personnel observing protocols. Boy, I was simple minded. The number of docs, nurses, medical assistants, techs, therapists etc with MRSA, C diff, hepatitis C, parvo,you name it is staggering. They exposed themselves by not following protocols.

For those of you who are careful, ask your surgeons/docs/providers/nurses/techs if they have MRSA, etc., or any communicable disease.
...
Rant over but you get the idea. Its all out the window when it comes to assuming patient-protecting protocols from your healthcare providers.

I hate to admit it, but after one year of that hospital school, I started to consider people just another form of filthy livestock. I know that's bad, but I was raised with high standards of actual cleanliness and how to keep things sanitary, and I remain disgusted with people who don't share that goal. Probably my mother placed a lot of emphasis on it because she is a) a trained home economist and dietitian, and b) severely allergic to almost all antibiotics and was almost killed by penicillin. She could be an a world of trouble if she gets a bacterial infection. I grew up with the assumption that there is NOT a pill to cure everything, and prevention is a smarter strategy than letting something bad happen and then trying to fix it. In addition to dirtbag patients, I've seen some real dirtbag slobs working in healthcare, too. Like you, I can't believe their cavalier attitude and lack of cleanliness.

 

[Rena7]

To answer the question about how people in Texas are taking this, my dh is at DFW airport right now and I am nervous. I really don't like the idea of him being there at all. People are anxious here. I just wish they were taking it more seriously at the hospital and with the CDC. That nurse should have never gotten on a plane. She might have just started an epidemic.

 

[Trekkie]

Suspected case of Ebola at Yale: mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/nyregion/yale-graduate-student-with-ebola-like-symptoms.html?referrer=

PhD student who went to Liberia to study the spread of the disease. It is considered unlikely that this student has contracted Ebola - symptoms are consistent with flu, but they have isolated the student citing "an abundance of caution".

 

[Trekkie]

To answer the question about how people in Texas are taking this, my dh is at DFW airport right now and I am nervous. I really don't like the idea of him being there at all. People are anxious here. I just wish they were taking it more seriously at the hospital and with the CDC. That nurse should have never gotten on a plane. She might have just started an epidemic.

Oh, no. At the airport! That must be so scary!

I guess any international airport is scary right now.

It seems the nurse was repeatedly assured by the CDC that it was safe for her to fly. I hope it really was safe and that no one else has been infected.

 

[kenny]

To answer the question about how people in Texas are taking this, my dh is at DFW airport right now and I am nervous. I really don't like the idea of him being there at all. People are anxious here. I just wish they were taking it more seriously at the hospital and with the CDC. That nurse should have never gotten on a plane. She might have just started an epidemic.

Oh, no. At the airport! That must be so scary!

I guess any international airport is scary right now.

It seems the nurse was repeatedly assured by the CDC that it was safe for her to fly. I hope it really was safe and that no one else has been infected.

Yeah, but after this her flying hit the news the CDC changed its mind.
When she called CDC, prior to flying, to ask whether it was okay for her to fly the CDC said, yes as long as your fever is under X.
Now the CDC has lowered that threshold temp and admitted she should not have flown.

Then, all the mistakes made at that Texas hospital.

How can something so important get so bungled?

 

[packrat]

We are human, therefore, imperfect. Buuuut we like to bask in the sunlight of Superior America. Which also goes by the names Arrogant America, Invincible America...Lazy Entitled We Can Do No Wrong America...We Do Everything Perfect All the Time America. Don't Offend or Hurt Anyone's Feelings America, Everybody Gets a Ribbon America....And now possibly Shoot Yourself in the Foot and Get Your Head Out of Your Ass America.

And of course the CDC changed their minds. They can't be wrong, yanno, they've got teh smartz.