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Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brilliant

Diamond2014

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I first would like to say hello to everyone. I'm new to the forum. :D

I bought the Round Brilliant diamond online with using ONLY classification of the FOUR C's during the time of purchase. Then I read more into round diamonds, I can not believe it has such interesting physics and math into it.

What is your opinion about the diamond I just bought? I haven't receive it yet. Looking further into the market and pricing, I feel lucky for getting this diamond at a "bang for the buck", but I somewhat have some doubts "too good to be true".

It is GIA Certified with Holloway Cut Adviser of ALL Excellent. What I don't get is why the HCA still gives it Excellent Fire when the crown angle is so shallow? One other negative this diamond has is Strong Fluorescence

I bought the diamond for $14,845. Is this a good deal or bad deal?

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Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

I don't have an ideal-scope (as the diamond has not yet arrive, and it's already on its setting, not loose diamond) but wish I could see how it might look like under Ideal-Scope or Helium or Sarin? Can someone help me with this? Thank you in advance.
 

Lady_diamond

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Hi, I brought a similar diamond with similar specs (Mine is 1.58 ct, F, VVS2 with HCA score of 1.0) and in the same position as you - waiting for it to come.

 7.48 - 7.53 x 4.62 mm
GIA Cut/symmetry/polish Excellent
Fluorescence Faint
Table: 57
Depth 61.6
PA 40.8
CA 34
PD 43

I am planning to make my own ideal-scope as I am from the UK -by putting a loupe x10 magnifier with a pink/red filter attached. If you google homemade ideal-scope or hearts and arrow homemade scope you should be able to find some examples. (You can still use the idealoscope on a mounted diamond (on a youtube video you can sandwich the ring in the box it comes in and then you can place the scope over it)

Goodluck with you diamond! :twirl:
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Diamond2014|1413301133|3766892 said:
I first would like to say hello to everyone. I'm new to the forum. :D

I bought the Round Brilliant diamond online with using ONLY classification of the FOUR C's during the time of purchase. Then I read more into round diamonds, I can not believe it has such interesting physics and math into it.

What is your opinion about the diamond I just bought? I haven't receive it yet. Looking further into the market and pricing, I feel lucky for getting this diamond at a "bang for the buck", but I somewhat have some doubts "too good to be true".

It is GIA Certified with Holloway Cut Adviser of ALL Excellent. What I don't get is why the HCA still gives it Excellent Fire when the crown angle is so shallow? One other negative this diamond has is Strong Fluorescence
I bought the diamond for $14,845. Is this a good deal or bad deal?
Nobody can tell you if it is a good deal based upon the info you have posted so far. You acknowledge that the strong blue is a negative. It's affect is potentially much more than just bringing the price down. It could impact light performance in a very undesirable way.
See this recent thread for example.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sad-my-diamond-doesnt-sparkle.206797/#post-3763230#p3763230']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sad-my-diamond-doesnt-sparkle.206797/#post-3763230#p3763230[/URL]

Regarding the HCA score, the assumptions and underpinnings of the tool favor that proportion set more than systems such as AGS.
 

FancyIntense

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Lady_diamond|1413302587|3766911 said:
Hi, I brought a similar diamond with similar specs (Mine is 1.58 ct, F, VVS2 with HCA score of 1.0) and in the same position as you - waiting for it to come.

 7.48 - 7.53 x 4.62 mm
GIA Cut/symmetry/polish Excellent
Fluorescence Faint
Table: 57
Depth 61.6
PA 40.8
CA 34
PD 43

I am planning to make my own ideal-scope as I am from the UK -by putting a loupe x10 magnifier with a pink/red filter attached. If you google homemade ideal-scope or hearts and arrow homemade scope you should be able to find some examples. (You can still use the idealoscope on a mounted diamond (on a youtube video you can sandwich the ring in the box it comes in and then you can place the scope over it)

Goodluck with you diamond! :twirl:

Hi Lady diamond, what is the title of that video on youtube I tried using all the words in a search with no luck finding it. I would love to try it. Thanks!
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Diamond2014|1413301133|3766892 said:
It is GIA Certified with Holloway Cut Adviser of ALL Excellent. What I don't get is why the HCA still gives it Excellent Fire when the crown angle is so shallow?
Last year Garry started a great poll about preferences for fire vs brightness and an interesting discussion ensued. In it he made mention of adjusting the HCA tool to give more weight to fire. I'm not sure if that was done or he was considering it. It would be interesting to get status on that.

The poll indicated that fire was preferred more, but with the majority voicing a preference for a balance between the two:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-is-more-important-fire-or-brightness.190743/page-4#p3492260']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/which-is-more-important-fire-or-brightness.190743/page-4#p3492260[/URL]
 

Lady_diamond

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdBZDY__Grc


[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sunday-afternoon-fun-with-a-homemade-hearts-and-arrows-scope.198925/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sunday-afternoon-fun-with-a-homemade-hearts-and-arrows-scope.198925/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sunday-afternoon-fun-with-a-homemade-hearts-and-arrows-scope.198925/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/sunday-afternoon-fun-with-a-homemade-hearts-and-arrows-scope.198925/[/URL]

Here you go. If you look at the idealoscope you will get an idea of how it function. It tests for the optical performance (light return and reflection) of the diamond. If the pavillion are working like mirrors and working with the right pavillion and crown angles,the light shining into the diamond from the crown should be reflected back out through the crown. The idealscope uses pink/red colour, so you would see the same colour when using the scope - the dark areas are the viewer's eye colour/and the colour of the loupe/lens.

(I am not an expert, this is from my own reading and understanding).
 

cflutist

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

I personally like my "X" to be within the solid white lines.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Texas Leaguer|1413306142|3766946 said:
[
Nobody can tell you if it is a good deal based upon the info you have posted so far. You acknowledge that the strong blue is a negative. It's affect is potentially much more than just bringing the price down. It could impact light performance in a very undesirable way.

A very small percentage of stones with strong blue fluorescence have the milky or hazy appearance. I beleive this is why the trade rules are in place here to prevent "scare mongering" of another vendor's stone based on things that have a very small chance of being an issue.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Diamond2014|1413301133|3766892 said:
Is this a good deal or bad deal?

It is likely neither, you paid a fair market price depending on how well cut it is.

If you want to judge how well it returns light you should purchase an Idealscope or an ASET scope (they are cheap) and check.
Fire is only observable in certain lighting conditions and this stone is capable of reflecting colored light back to the viewer.

This type of cut favors brightness over fire but has the capability of exhibiting both.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

MelisendeDiamonds|1413347769|3767249 said:
Texas Leaguer|1413306142|3766946 said:
[
Nobody can tell you if it is a good deal based upon the info you have posted so far. You acknowledge that the strong blue is a negative. It's affect is potentially much more than just bringing the price down. It could impact light performance in a very undesirable way.

A very small percentage of stones with strong blue fluorescence have the milky or hazy appearance. I beleive this is why the trade rules are in place here to prevent "scare mongering" of another vendor's stone based on things that have a very small chance of being an issue.
Haroutioun,
I hope you are not suggesting that I am engaging in "scare mongering". First of all, the OP did not name a vendor so my post was in no way a violation of forum rules. Second, it is well known that this is a potential problem and from the OP's comments it is clear that there is concern, but no evidence that the nature of the potential problem is fully understood. The OP is about to receive the diamond and this is definitely something to evaluate. There is no evidence in the original post that this issue has been vetted by the vendor, only that the diamond was bought online.

It would be a disservice to the OP not to point out this issue. There are many opinions on strong fluorescence, but no matter where you stand on the subject, it is something to pay attention to because it impacts price, liquidity, and sometimes light performance.
 

Dancing Fire

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

I would prefer a stone with a higher crown but that just me.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Texas Leaguer|1413384326|3767371 said:
I hope you are not suggesting that I am engaging in "scare mongering".

You did not provide balanced information on fluorescence, the likelihood of hazy or oily looking stone from fluorescence is quite low.
Citing one example does not speak to the rarity of the deleterious effects.

So rather than citing the following pricescope rules for trademembers:

d. Do not create fear-based doubts in consumers' minds in order to scare them into using your services.
g. Please refrain from commenting on other vendor products unless there is obvious misinformation.

You certainly did g. but I wouldn't say you were went as far as d.

I clarified your post and put it into proper context to avoid misinformation.

However you did mention AGS which the OP never brought up:

Texas Leaguer|1413384326|3767371 said:
Regarding the HCA score, the assumptions and underpinnings of the tool favor that proportion set more than systems such as AGS.

While it may have been unintentional those two comments are unbalanced and appear biased crossing a line for "educating" the consumer. AGS grading has very little to do with whether this GIA graded stone is a deal or not.
 

CrazyBirdLady

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Dancing Fire|1413385365|3767378 said:
I would prefer a stone with a higher crown but that just me.

And me.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

MelisendeDiamonds|1413402922|3767517 said:
Texas Leaguer|1413384326|3767371 said:
I hope you are not suggesting that I am engaging in "scare mongering".
You did not provide balanced information on fluorescence, the likelihood of hazy or oily looking stone from fluorescence is quite low.
Citing one example does not speak to the rarity of the deleterious effects.

So rather than citing the following pricescope rules for trademembers:

d. Do not create fear-based doubts in consumers' minds in order to scare them into using your services.
g. Please refrain from commenting on other vendor products unless there is obvious misinformation.

You certainly did g. but I wouldn't say you were went as far as d.

I clarified your post and put it into proper context to avoid misinformation.

However you did mention AGS which the OP never brought up:

Texas Leaguer|1413384326|3767371 said:
Regarding the HCA score, the assumptions and underpinnings of the tool favor that proportion set more than systems such as AGS.

While it may have been unintentional those two comments are unbalanced and appear biased crossing a line for "educating" the consumer. AGS grading has very little to do with whether this GIA graded stone is a deal or not.
Haroutioun,
I respect your opinion but I think your criticism of my post is unwarranted. First, I was not trying to give a full discussion on the pros and cons of strong fluorescence, as this was not what the original post called for. I was simply providing advice on an important issue (brought up by the OP) to look closely at, with a reference to a real-world issue of this subject discussed in some detail on the forum recently. It was unclear to me how far the OP had explored this issue, and I believe a consumer spending $15K on a stone sight-unseen might want to be aware.

Second, in response to a specific question about HCA I made mention of the fact that other grading systems do not share the same underpinnings, hence there can be differences in the results. I don't think it is inappropriate to mention other labs and grading systems when talking about HCA, even if a poster does not specifically bring it up. In fact, comparing and contrasting grading methodologies is done all time on this board - for educational purposes. I merely mentioned AGS to make clear what I meant by a different system, without passing any judgment on relative merits.

As far as the claim that I violated "g", there is no vendor mentioned up to this point! It is just an anonymous diamond that the poster ordered online and wants to get some feedback on. By your logic, tradespeople could rarely comment in any thread where any specific diamond is being discussed. I do not think that is the intent of the moderators or the practice on this board. ( I am willing to be corrected if my interpretation is not correct.)

So, I have had my say. I am not sure our little debate here is interesting to anyone else. But, if you feel like having the last word, be my guest. I do think it is commendable that you are very sensitive to forum rules and ethical discussion. I like to think that I am too.
 

Diamond2014

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Fire?

Many members here have seen thousands of diamonds in your years. With the specification as list above, will there be fire? or lack of fire? Crown angle is right at the border of BIC and TIC
 

Lady_diamond

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

From my reading it appears most people on pricescope recommends a crown angle of 34-35, 34.5 being ideal.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Fire?

Diamond2014|1413464541|3767886 said:
Many members here have seen thousands of diamonds in your years. With the specification as list above, will there be fire? or lack of fire? Crown angle is right at the border of BIC and TIC
As MilesendeDiamonds stated above, based upon the available information this diamond has the potential to produce fire. As mentioned the crown/pavilion combo favors brightness over fire, but you should get a mix of both. Take the stone into the sunlight and observe it in both direct and slightly filtered,indirect light such as under a leafy tree. You should be able to pick up some colored sparkles (fire) if all systems are go. (The ability to observe fire in a diamond is highly dependent on the light environment, no matter how well it is cut). And if the strong fluoro is an issue you will detect it under these conditions.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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Re: Fire?

Diamond2014|1413464541|3767886 said:
Many members here have seen thousands of diamonds in your years. With the specification as list above, will there be fire? or lack of fire? Crown angle is right at the border of BIC and TIC

The thrust of your questions is whether this is a deal.
Already factored into the price is the shallow crown angle and strong blue fluorescence.

Is this stone going to be a top performer amongst GIA XXX graded stones? No
Is this going to perform as balanced between FIre and Brightness as a TIC? No

But I think you already knew the answer to both of these questions. What you are really asking or should be asking is:

Are there better alternatives I can get for 15k?
Do I prefer an alternative weighting of priorities in my selection of another stone?
How will this stone look next to other 15k stones with slightly adjusted specs?

Now as for the tradeoffs, the other members have already told you the negatives of your choice but here are the positives:

7.43mm 1.5ct F VVS2

This stone faces up larger than its weight and is very high color and clarity, and being a GIA XXX it will have a decent cut but perhaps not top performing.

Some people prefer the Strong Blue Fluoro, there was a time when 'Blue Whites' D color with Strong Blue Fluoro were highly sought after and traded at a premium. More info on Fluoro here https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence

One logical way to move forward if you are still unsure is to view it next to some TICs or other alternatives.

It really comes down to how much time and effort you want to spend on the nuances of cut. Asking us general theoretical questions about TIC or BIC doesn't move you closer to an informed decision, more informative would be a side by side comparison with your eyes in your common viewing environment.
 

Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Thank you MelisendeDiamonds and Texas Leaguer for your input.

I will see it in person when it arrive on Sat, then will determine whether or not to replace it.
 

Texas Leaguer

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Diamond2014|1413487114|3768088 said:
Thank you MelisendeDiamonds and Texas Leaguer for your input.

I will see it in person when it arrive on Sat, then will determine whether or not to replace it.
You are welcome. Hope it is a beauty. Let us know how it works out.
 

nukezero

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Hey Diamond2014

That's a nice sized diamond, color and clarity for that price you're paying. Certainly a great deal based on those characteristics.

However, there are some concerns that I see with this stone which might have warranted the price.

First is the table seems a bit big and that number falls out of the range of acceptable "excellent" table numbers.
Second is the crown angle is also a bit shallow which also falls out of the range of "excellent" crown angles.

Last but not least which impacted the lower cost of the diamond was that it has strong blue fluorescence. From what I've been reading on the internet, fluorescence decreases the value of the diamond if the color of the diamond is D-G. It adds no value if it's H. It begins to add some value to the diamond for I colors and below because it helps face them up whiter.

The fact that D-F diamonds are intrinsically super white does not require them to need fluorescence, therefore, the "internet" pages that I've read all pointed out that this is why they are discounted as they are undesirable with higher color stones.

Although most people will say fluorescence does not affect the clarity appearance of the diamond, only when subjected to UV light, however in some cases, some people have mentioned they don't like the effect it gives for D-F diamonds, but they like it on lower color diamonds. Also, if fluorescence is not desired but is unfortunately there, they recommend to stay with a maximum of medium fluorescence. However, at the end of the day, only your eyes can determine if the fluorescence and how much of it is a deal breaker for you.

Finally, you will want to get aset and idealscope images if you can. Just going by numbers and HCA tools helps "narrow" down the list. But at the end of the day, ASET and Idealscope will be used to base your decision.

I'm just a n00b and this is what I read throughout the internet from various sources so don't bash me if I'm wrong.
 

Diamond2014

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Disappointed

I received the ring and starting to understand more about round diamonds through reading of this forum and YouTube.

I'm so disappointed that I could not propose to her as planned. But she'll be wearing this ring for a whole life time, hence another month of waiting not be rush.

Here's my dilemma. I haven't seen it through the Ideal-Scope or Aset Scope yet, but from the look of it, I could already imagine how it'll look like through the Ideal-Scope or Aset Scope. (Already set the order for professional Ideal-Scope/Aset-Scope kit). When I got the ring, it's definitely bright, but I don't see much/any contrast, just alot of brightness that makes it look dull. The strong blue fluorescence did not affect the diamond at all, it's crystal clear, but putting under UV, you definitely can see it to be greenish blue. I haven't go out into sunlight yet so I don't know how that will affect the color. It does have fire while I sitting in restaurant seating with many spotlights around, but the fire is tiny, no fires from arrows shooting out, just alot of small tiny fires all over, from one edge of diamond to another.

Back to MelisendeDiamonds's suggestion, you were right. I should be asking these questions:

Are there better alternatives I can get for 15k?
Do I prefer an alternative weighting of priorities in my selection of another stone?
How will this stone look next to other 15k stones with slightly adjusted specs?

What would you sacrifice? Color? Clarity? Carat? I want to stay around $15K area. I sacrificed Clarity and Carat, I found this:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04041009?keyword_search_value=LD04041009

Do you have any suggestion to any other diamond? Blue Nile seem to have alot of diamond but mostly bad specifications. I don't know if it's just me, or are diamonds really hard to find like I imagine?

Note to MOD & ADMIN: If someone post a competitive diamond even from their own inventory, please do not ban them. I really need help finding the diamond.
 

MelisendeDiamonds

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Re: Disappointed

Diamond2014|1413729259|3769406 said:
When I got the ring, it's definitely bright, but I don't see much/any contrast, just alot of brightness that makes it look dull.... but the fire is tiny, no fires from arrows shooting out, just alot of small tiny fires all over, from one edge of diamond to another.

I hope you have a chance to view well cut diamonds beside this one to educate your eyes before you return it.

What would you sacrifice? Color? Clarity? Carat? I want to stay around $15K area. I sacrificed Clarity and Carat, I found this:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04041009?keyword_search_value=LD04041009

From a cut perspective this is as safe a choice you could make in a GIA graded stone and an excellent candidate.
If you wanted to be safer you might decide to choose a vendor that already has the stones in house and provides images but otherwise this one would be as good as any. This one also has good spread and visually you barely loose any faceup size as compared to the 1.5.


Do you have any suggestion to any other diamond? Blue Nile seem to have alot of diamond but mostly bad specifications. I don't know if it's just me, or are diamonds really hard to find like I imagine?

Note to MOD & ADMIN: If someone post a competitive diamond even from their own inventory, please do not ban them. I really need help finding the diamond.

As trademembers we are prohibited from soliciting business or from posting diamond suggestions. This board would be nothing more than a referral service or shill site if trade were allowed to disparage competitors' diamonds and then refer to their own.

However if you ask consumers here or if you make a new thread I am sure some of the more experienced consumer members will be able to help you with potential suggestions.
 

Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Set 1

20141022_133821.jpg

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20141022_133939.jpg
 

Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Set 2

20141022_133549.jpg

20141022_133601.jpg

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20141022_133714.jpg
 

Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Set 3

20141022_133255.jpg

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20141022_133317.jpg

20141022_133544.jpg
 

Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Set 4

20141022_133225.jpg

20141022_133227.jpg

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Diamond2014

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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

These are the Aset Scope and Ideal Scope images. It was so hard to take, so I just upload several at difference angle. What do you think?

20141022_132511.jpg

20141022_132822.jpg

20141022_133122.jpg
 

Diamond2014

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Messages
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Re: Holloway Cut Adviser - Need Your Opinion - Round Brillia

Can someone give opinion base on the Aset and Ideal Scope images? This is the best I can do, it was hard to take pictures of the Aset and Ideal Scope.
 
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