shape
carat
color
clarity

The Sudden Love For Vintage Diamonds

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
I think a lot of the interest on pricescope began with Surfgirl's transitional cut diamond. She posted pictures of it under a chandeliar and people were all gobsmacked with the beautiful colors playing off the facets. I remember she also liked antique ring boxes and there was a thread with the lovely ones she had in silver with little legs on them. I wish that photos were still there as I remember enjoying that ring box thread.

I notice in the celebrity thread that lots of them get antique stones now, Jennifer Anniston's huge rose cut diamond was just one.

I have been agreeing with AGBF all along on this thread and have started threads before about the low color diamonds. Needless to say I have been here since 2002 so was here all the time too that the cut wars were going on and when the ideal cut, colorless 1 carat was all the rage. However, tonight it was KarlK's post who answered my questions. I had forgot about the big companies such as Blue Nile etc coming into the market and ofcourse the GIA and AGS cut grades changing the point of carrying out more research into round brilliants. Also the point Karl made that the technical posts which I enjoyed have now been hashed out regarding the basics and the vendors are no longer here. I like old cuts and have a few small ones but I am still a Super Ideal Round person at heart. Love all diamonds though and do appreciate what Erica has said about the pattern and having a connection to a stone. Two different animals.

Thank you AGBF as this thread has really settled what I was feeling for ages about this forum with all the old cuts or old cut club as someone said. I think we just get so invested into it after years and years of reading or buying and feel kind of cheated in a way now, although that is the wrong word. We do choose what WE want and we have to move along with the times. I suppose as someone else said the h & a's was us moving along, the cushion talk, remember cehrabera and Garry having long conversations about that, then ERD sold a lot of cushions to people coming online asking for cushion shapes, oecs and transitional talk, we were all moving along with it and the new cut stones that GOG presented us with not to mention the Octavia, we did move along, then suddenly we turned around well AGBF and myself did and forgot that we had moved along with and just looked from the beginning to now. I mean we were even present watching all the custom rings being designed in the old style. Then the pave with thin shanks etc.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
I miss the cut wars though, I learned a lot from them, and miss seeing the vendors on here when I log in. I am starting to like the old cut talk though and how it is beauty in the eye of the beholder, everyone different. I especially love Kathleys stone and notice it in the avatar everytime I read a thread she has posted on. Brian from Whiteflash has good posts too and Wink ofcourse.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
AGBF|1412810105|3764535 said:
I am not going to say I won't post anymore. I am not going to say, "Good bye, Cruel Pricescope". Instead I am going to to say that I am so angry right now that if I don't step away from the keyboard, I will type something I will regret. And one person whom I truly love and respect on this board, Karl, knows that when I am under stress I can lose my temper and that I am actually a kind person who regrets it when I do. All I will say now is that you do not know me, telephone89.

AGBF

And Deb, I'm not going to the typical drama momma "Oh please don't go" in response to a GBCPS, but I do want to say that I love you and that you are a strong part of the foundation of Pricescope and that I would be very sad if that was not the case going forward. People say all kinds of hurtful things... it happens to all of us. The reasons we keep coming back are that our friends are here, regardless of those people. And I just want to remind you that I am your friend, among MANY others, and that we are here for you when you are ready to return.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,635
I think it is a good thing for the community to have this kind of discussion from time to time if everyone can refrain from chewing each other up.
I feel there are some very productive discussions going on in this thread but the attacks have no place here.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Improved cutting has made the lower end high precision round market open to the high volume players that used to be open mostly to specialty shops like WF, GOG, Wink and others.
The very top of the high end market is still more of a specialist area but the competition is pushing prices down. Being just H&A and AGS0 with a few pictures and decent customer service isn't enough to put a vendor into decent by online diamonds standards profit margins anymore.
[/quote]


What do you mean by 'The very top of the high end market' ?[/quote]
As a trade member I can not name any brand or line or vendors stones as better than another so this will not be the answer your looking for.
I consider the very top end where everything is as near to good as it can get as possible not just good enough to be ags0 and h&a.[/quote

Thanks Karl. I had just wondered if it was like Cartier, Harry Winston etc. but I suppose it is like the Octavia and all the work to get it designed and alligned in the cutting. Anything that adds value as Martin Rappaport instructed was the way forward to sell diamonds. Is Whiteflash included in this, I know Karl can't say, but can anyone else say?
 

apacherose

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
1,322
ericad|1412794061|3764384 said:
I had a profound thought.



Do I win a prize? I'm feeling super deep right now!!!
quote]

I kinda think you do. :appl: I think your contributions to this thread have been.... fascinating, enlightening, well thought, considerate.... :clap: thanks.

Thanks oohshiney, missy, circe for responding to my question concerning the potentially? inflated value of lower colors due to their increasing popularity.

I was asking as a curiosity- I think it is a logical question based on the thread topic... I agree that consumers are not advised to purchase diamonds based on resale, but, in spending large amounts of money I don't think it is necessary to disregard/not wonder whether the commodity is currently being undervalued or inflated, etc.

FWIW I think the diamond cutters of old were craftsmen, as well as those like Yoram, who cut diamonds with the aid of technology... or at least electricity, lol. I still find digital animation to be art- using technology to aid in creation does not detract, for me...different strokes ... each rough, each diamond is a bit different and has to be treated based on her own shape and inclusions - I was amazed at how that Octavia was cut and how one had to adjust as things went along. All that planning for that one creation- truly amazing. Crazy to think of doing it by candlelight, too.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Gypsy|1412811878|3764557 said:
AGBF|1412810105|3764535 said:
I am not going to say I won't post anymore. I am not going to say, "Good bye, Cruel Pricescope". Instead I am going to to say that I am so angry right now that if I don't step away from the keyboard, I will type something I will regret. And one person whom I truly love and respect on this board, Karl, knows that when I am under stress I can lose my temper and that I am actually a kind person who regrets it when I do. All I will say now is that you do not know me, telephone89.

AGBF

And Deb, I'm not going to the typical drama momma "Oh please don't go" in response to a GBCPS, but I do want to say that I love you and that you are a strong part of the foundation of Pricescope and that I would be very sad if that was not the case going forward. People say all kinds of hurtful things... it happens to all of us. The reasons we keep coming back are that our friends are here, regardless of those people. And I just want to remind you that I am your friend, among MANY others, and that we are here for you when you are ready to return.

Gypsy, she said she was NOT going to say GBCPS. :)) She just said she was angry and needed to step away before she said something she regretted.

You know I love you, too, Deb, and some newbies have no clue what this thread is about. I understand pretty much what it is about...there has been a marked change on the forum from the prior practice of promoting the very best cut stones and now on the other extreme are SOME (not all) who do not care about light return, cut quality, etc. for old stones. But there are members here who have found really gorgeous antique stones, so they do exist. I hope to find one someday, but I am not settling until I find an outstanding one! ;))
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
5,520
Gypsy|1412811878|3764557 said:
AGBF|1412810105|3764535 said:
I am not going to say I won't post anymore. I am not going to say, "Good bye, Cruel Pricescope". Instead I am going to to say that I am so angry right now that if I don't step away from the keyboard, I will type something I will regret. And one person whom I truly love and respect on this board, Karl, knows that when I am under stress I can lose my temper and that I am actually a kind person who regrets it when I do. All I will say now is that you do not know me, telephone89.

AGBF

And Deb, I'm not going to the typical drama momma "Oh please don't go" in response to a GBCPS, but I do want to say that I love you and that you are a strong part of the foundation of Pricescope and that I would be very sad if that was not the case going forward. People say all kinds of hurtful things... it happens to all of us. The reasons we keep coming back are that our friends are here, regardless of those people. And I just want to remind you that I am your friend, among MANY others, and that we are here for you when you are ready to return.

Deb, I have been following this thread with much interest, as you articulated a different and thought-provoking perspective to what has been going on in diamond-sales and diamond-buying these last years. I am coming from perhaps the opposite point, having been sure super-ideal RBs were the ne plus ultra for me ... but over several years finding that in fact it is the bright and quirky old-cut that enthralls me (and only certain ones at that). I have relied on IS/Aset/HCA and other tools for RB purchases however, and even for my old-cut purchases have tried to find more to support my purchase than "pleasing to my eye" (though I guess that is my top concern, but I bought CS stones long before I ever got into diamonds).

Wanted also to say that I always enjoy your posts no matter the topic - you have a unique "voice" and one that I respect and appreciate. Thank you.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,786
Big hugs Deb, even though we disagree everyone respects you, this has been a great thread so don't disappear.

Pyramid, you point out a number of really interesting things, the process of what people buy on here has been an evolution, RBs, custom cut cushions, transitionals, OECs. We have also seen the rise of the prosumer particularly on here going hand in hand with that. The internet has led to people being able to access more information to be able to better educate themselves and therefore they can make more selective informed choices. We have seen the rise of companies like Blue Nile, James Allen and others where you can purchase a stone online and be half a world away and you don't have to go into a bricks and mortar store to try something on.

Simultaneously the internet has led to people having greater choices, they can look at pics of beautiful rings in many types of cuts so they are no longer JUST considering RBs.

My point here is that diamond purchasing and selling for that matter has evolved to fit with fashion, people's tastes and so on. If tinted OECs, cushions, Emerald cuts, ovals and anything else are flavour of the month what does it matter? Size and price (people wanting larger stones for a good price) has also given rise to greater acceptance of lower colours irrespective of type cut. Size and price (again people wanting more diamond for their money) has also led to the increasing (overly inflated perhaps as you might argue?) price of Antique stones, but that is not going to end any time soon.

RBs in high colour and clarities will never die, and they are still the bread and butter of most vendors including the ones here, I think great vendors like Jon have identified trends, and have diversified to keep up with consumer demand. Others like Erica and Grace have always loved old stones and by hand selecting the very best of what they see for their customers they too are meeting consumer demand. I don't think vendors these days are selling new unicorns to customers they are selling them informed variety and that has to be a good not a bad thing.
 

kathley

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
1,560
Pyramid|1412811198|3764553 said:
I miss the cut wars though, I learned a lot from them, and miss seeing the vendors on here when I log in. I am starting to like the old cut talk though and how it is beauty in the eye of the beholder, everyone different. I especially love Kathleys stone and notice it in the avatar everytime I read a thread she has posted on. Brian from Whiteflash has good posts too and Wink ofcourse.

Thank you, Pyramid! I looked for over two years intensely for the perfect OEC for me. I chose my OEC by the facet pattern, as it was the only one that "spoke to me" and simply blew me away. There was no ASET in the mix of why I chose this particular stone. The icing on the cake for me is that the light play and fire of this stone has been described as "insane" by some as it is a super performer. A few months ago I was in Jim Summa's store and he happened to let me see the ASET of my diamond. I was stunned to see that it looked identical to GOG's AVR's in symmetry and colors! Jim was not surprised because with his professional eye for diamonds, he said he knew it was super bright and a high performer. In short, I chose this diamond by its facet pattern. 8)
 

Phanie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
296
I am fairly new here.
Why I love OEC and OMC?
I have an ering with the center stone being OMC given to my hubs by his mom , who popped it out of a long awaiting box from his great great aunt. The ring has two MRB.
I love the crooked, mishappen OMC so much better because it throws rainbows so much that I have had people come to me and ask where I got this ring( they were looking at me from 10 yards at work and noticed my fireball). I love that it is my little (.76ct) crazy disco ball even though it is clearly a misfit (symetry is crappy you would not believe) but it is stilla great performer.
Old cut remind me of my grandmother's rings, my mom's.
It is sentimental.
I do not like the two MRB in my ering and I am serioulsy thinking of getting them out and replaced with OMCs.
For my 10 year anniversary gift, hubs told me he wanted to get me a ring.
I love oddballs, old european stuff ( I am French). I love low color diamonds. I love the play of light AND colors in OEC, that MRB do not have.
I started to look online and my first search was "where to buy an old diamonds?" which lead me to PS and JbEG anf Jewels by Grace and Love Affair Diamonds. Thank God. That way I found my baby. Erica landed me an amazing OEC.
If not fot PS I would have just not gotten a diamond ring because I don't like MRB, I don't like the white glassy looking of RB. I would have gotten a cushion but not a round.
My new baby is an amazing OEC N in color and I could not be happier.
If I had not been able to find one in the US,I would have gone back to France and scoure the parisian antique shops and Cartier and place Vendome where I personnaly know jewelers (I use to work for some).
There, it is not just a fad and a salespeople pitch, it really is that some people love those cuts better. :love:
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
I think if you have not been here since the promotion of the hearts and arrows cut and high color you don't understand what AGBF is really feeling.

The crux of the matter is that H&A was the be all end all of the Cut is King statement, now because of large companies selling on line this type of diamond has become mainstream and lost its uniqueness. This was an expensive buy for most people. To then see lower color diamonds becoming the vogue well I understand what AGBF is feeling. I think the lower color is a sidekick we mention but the real thing is that the diamond has just morphed from a super ideal cut with lots of planning in buying to a diamond that takes your fancy sort of thing. Don't mean to be fippant but this is how it feels when you have been on this long journey since 2002.

Same thing if the old cut diamonds suddenly become seen as unfashionable and some other diamond pattern, say disco pattern takes over you would want answers in a way too if the old cut had been more of a man made part due to years of studying, discussion and maths being done by those who were in the trade and able, and inventors such as Garry Holloway. I would think he must be feeling a bit off about this too.

This was why I asked KarlK if companies like Whiteflash, with just H&A and meeting AGS0 were not in the high quality market, he mentioned. I know he cannot answer, but suspect they are not. I believe it is the beautiful diamonds Diagem sometimes shows photos of online, along with scientific mathematically cut like the Octavia and other unique diamonds cut for Cartier etc, such as a large pink diamond.

So from what I read, H&A AGS0 can be bought mainstream now and so Cut is King although the most important thing, is not unique anymore, you can get it at James Allen True Hearts, Blue Nile and the Development of Cut on pricescope has come to an end for the round brilliant or the newly named Modern Round Brilliant. The final standard has been set by GIA and AGS until another Tolkowsky comes along with know how to improve it but he will also need their blessing to do this.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,635
Pyramid|1412822392|3764646 said:
This was why I asked KarlK if companies like Whiteflash, with just H&A and meeting AGS0 were not in the high quality market, he mentioned. I know he cannot answer, but suspect they are not.
I am not supposed to say this but since something I said is not being correctly applied I am going to reply just to clear the air.
WF sells both what I consider higher end (ACA) and lower end (ES).
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,227
Deleted.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
kenny|1412825533|3764656 said:
So, some people who bought ideal-cut modern round brilliants 5 to 10 years ago are all butt-hurt now that they perceive something else is in vogue?

This is understandable?
You gotta be kidding me.
GMAB :roll:

I guess people AND diamonds styles are not allowed to vary. :nono: :wall:

I'm calm enough to reply to kenny without swearing, so I will. If my rage gets too great and I need to step back from the keyboard again later, I will. ;))

After all, I first got onto the Internet in 1992 using USENET newsgroups long before there was Windows. That was the Wild Wild West back then. I couldn't be a shrinking violet and survive that, so I should be able to survive a moderated website!

I just want to say to kenny that if he is referring to me as one of the people who supposedly "bought ideal-cut modern round brilliants 5 to 10 years ago (and) are all butt-hurt now that they perceive something else is in vogue?" he must have been smoking something funny.

He isn't dumb enough to believe that. He's just looking for another fight if he's pretending to believe that that was my position.

Some new posters who do not know me might have misinterpreted my position to think that I regretted past purchases of my own (of which they would be wholly unaware of course, being new)...but kenny knows very well that I was not posting out of regret over my own purchases and was not coveting anyone else's diamonds. kenny just likes a good fight. Ask anyone.

Deb
:read:
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
For the record, I *was* around during a long period of "cut hype". But I never bought into it. The *science* of diamonds doesn't interest me. And I don't have a need to (think I) have the tippy top besty best of anything. I like what I like w/little regard for *expertise* except as a point of reference for negotiation.

During "the cut wars" I imagine many people like myself just stayed out of it. And zzzzzzzzzzzz :snore: :snore: :snore: :snore: 'd out.

I guess I just don't see this "sudden" love for vintage diamonds. Or a big conspiracy. Or mustache twirling schemers hypnotizing PSers into dumb purchases.

Maybe some feel HOODWINKED by all the magic "science" they were biting hook. line & s(t)inker into 7 years ago. And are like "hey, hey - isn't mine the best after all??? Right - we all agreed!!!! Hey, what happened? I'm cool, right???"

Just like all the folks who bought Blue/White diamonds during that heyday might be all, hmmmm. Or D IFs - when their cache was lessened *through the trend cycle*. Note I said "cache", not rarity. Things can still be rare - yet not as prized AT THE MOMENT.




ETA: The evolution of diamond cutting has been going on FOREVER. Did anyone really think we'd reached some *end* to the innovation? NOW - during our lifetime? During the past DECADE? I don't even know what to say to THAT notion. Wasn't so long ago we had phones the size of boom-boxes. Even if you do value science/technology over more esoteric factors ... it's a moving target.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,227
Well, I tried to delete my post but I wasn't fast enough since AGBF quoted it.

I'll just say I don't care if shit-colored rough diamonds come into vogue and all the vendors make a killing on them.
To each their own.
My ideal cut diamond is no less sparkly because vintage cut is more in vogue now.
My D, E, F, G, and H diamonds didn't change grades because L vintage cuts are more popular now than before.
Actually, vintage cuts being more in vogue now does not affect me in ANY way.

I guess if I was the type of person who must get approval from others by jumping on every bandwagon I'd be bitter ... but then ... wouldn't that be my own responsibility?

I'll still like what I'm wearing and if shit-colored rough diamond rings are not my thing I'll not cry over what I'm wearing, or feel some resentment that styles changed.
I don't give a crap that my clothes are not in style either.

Play the style game, or don't.
If you elect to play the style game and annually discard last year's clothes, you don't get to whine about it.
Don't like it? Don't do it. Nobody's holding a gun against your head.

Everyone chooses what they want/get, so smile, be happy.
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
kenny|1412828080|3764675 said:
I'll still like what I'm wearing...and not cry over what I'm wearing, or feel some resentment that styles changed.

Guess what, kenny? I LIKE WHAT I LIKE,TOO. That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

This thread, contrary to popular belief, was not started to rob people of their right to enjoy vintage cuts. It was started to question why vintage cuts had suddenly become all the rage after ALL THE EXPERTS HAD SPENT DECADES EDUCATING US ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF USING THEIR PRECIOUS INSTRUMENTS.

I never used any of their instuments myself.

And I love all my diamonds.

AGBF
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
AGBF|1412828942|3764679 said:
ALL THE EXPERTS HAD SPENT DECADES EDUCATING US ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF USING THEIR PRECIOUS INSTRUMENTS.

So you want vendors & experts to slink back and admit it was all BS?
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
22,143
decodelighted|1412829244|3764685 said:
AGBF|1412828942|3764679 said:
ALL THE EXPERTS HAD SPENT DECADES EDUCATING US ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF USING THEIR PRECIOUS INSTRUMENTS.

So you want vendors & experts to slink back and admit it was all BS?

Why, yes, deco. That is exactly what I really meant, but I couldn't express myself properly. Thank you for your help. I needed someone to clarify this for me with the readers. Without you to translate, I wouldn't be able to spit out my own thoughts.

Deb
:read:
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,786
AGBF|1412828942|3764679 said:
kenny|1412828080|3764675 said:
I'll still like what I'm wearing...and not cry over what I'm wearing, or feel some resentment that styles changed.

Guess what, kenny? I LIKE WHAT I LIKE,TOO. That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

This thread, contrary to popular belief, was not started to rob people of their right to enjoy vintage cuts. It was started to question why vintage cuts had suddenly become all the rage after ALL THE EXPERTS HAD SPENT DECADES EDUCATING US ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF USING THEIR PRECIOUS INSTRUMENTS.

I never used any of their instuments myself.

And I love all my diamonds.

AGBF

There are a number of reasons you seem to be ignoring.
1) Pure Economics - for a lot of people in the beginning at least old cuts were cheaper
2) Size - again we are talking a few years first and more generally now - you could get a larger old cut for less $$$$S years ago and there were more bargains to be had.
3) To a lot (not all but some) people old cuts look far more appealing in lower colours than RBs do (ie they mask colour in that mid colour range well if you are trying to get more for your $$$$) and I think to some degree they look more pleasing in most lower colours as well.
4) People saw pictures of them, on here, on the Internet, on movie stars, they saw something cool on someone else and it made them think, I want that instead of an RB.
5) They gained mainstream attention when no.4 happened and vendors picked up on this trend that consumers, prosumers and others were no longer all mostly happy to just buy the whitest best cut RB they could for their money they wanted choices.

My husbands family have owned a shop in Australia for the past 30+ years, so if I am missing something let me know. We are a few years behind the US when it comes to jewellery trends.

I hope Garry and Jon and a few others comment too. I think their instruments and their developments with RBs have led a lot of people to question the performance of not just RBs but all fancy cuts they buy as well even ones that are handcut. So I don't think any of it was for nothing. Both the information available and peoples tastes have evolved.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
kathley|1412820699|3764634 said:
Pyramid|1412811198|3764553 said:
I miss the cut wars though, I learned a lot from them, and miss seeing the vendors on here when I log in. I am starting to like the old cut talk though and how it is beauty in the eye of the beholder, everyone different. I especially love Kathleys stone and notice it in the avatar everytime I read a thread she has posted on. Brian from Whiteflash has good posts too and Wink ofcourse.

Thank you, Pyramid! I looked for over two years intensely for the perfect OEC for me. I chose my OEC by the facet pattern, as it was the only one that "spoke to me" and simply blew me away. There was no ASET in the mix of why I chose this particular stone. The icing on the cake for me is that the light play and fire of this stone has been described as "insane" by some as it is a super performer. A few months ago I was in Jim Summa's store and he happened to let me see the ASET of my diamond. I was stunned to see that it looked identical to GOG's AVR's in symmetry and colors! Jim was not surprised because with his professional eye for diamonds, he said he knew it was super bright and a high performer. In short, I chose this diamond by its facet pattern. 8)

I am sure I have told you before how much I love your diamond and how it reminds me of mine! You were so fortunate to find such a beautifully cut antique stone! It is fabulous that you were able to see the ASET of your diamond! It confirmed the great cut that you were seeing with your eyes! That is why I am a big supporter of ASETs even for antique cuts, and even if I have to buy an ASET scope myself, I will definitely be using one if and when I find an antique stone I am interested in!

(See Deb, I still care about cut quality regardless of how old a diamond is! Tiffany and Cartier have some gorgeous antique diamond jewelry, and it goes to show there were great cutters 100 years ago, too!)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
I was there during the cut wars, though at the tail end when people like Mara had a J and Kristy Darling had a gorgeous 3 carat H. And warmer colors were gaining popularity.

I started posting right at the time when "icy white" was still said with a serious voice, and not in jest. And I'll admit, when I joined I was REALLY happy my diamond was an F and therefore acceptable.

And I also snoozed, probably right along side Deco, at the millions of posts dissecting super ideals to death. But I was a newbie. And now, I rely on those tools and I've come to appreciate them.

I don't think it's been an 'evolution" I think it's just been a progression. And it's been an interesting ride. I personally think that we are more balanced in our approach to helping people find diamonds now.

I would have been under fire for my post in this thread, for example, back then... but I firmly believe in what I wrote here, for example, and standby my post: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-ideal-cut-light-perf-rb-vs-hearts-arrows-rb.206369/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-ideal-cut-light-perf-rb-vs-hearts-arrows-rb.206369/[/URL]

I do see what Deb is saying... if you look at the before and after it's quite a glaring difference.

But there are factors, as arkieb notes, that contributed to the progression we see... so it's more of a narrative then a before after.

I do think that at this point I would like to offer some pie! In the spirit of Old PS, where pie was offered after everyone had beat each other up and things had progressed to a point where people's backs were up, but someone (usually Kaleigh or Mara) stepped in and said... hey we are all friends here, so let's take a piece of pie and reflect on the sweetness of that instead of some of the harsh words that have been said.

Again, still on codeine cough syrup so don't kill me for getting poetic and take some of the freaking pie!!

I've got key lime, pecan, chocolate, gluten free chocolate (another sign of the times) and apple (both gluten free and not). All home made and no preservatives.

Step up and take a slice folks...

And Kenny, how about you let me be a net nanny and ask you to keep the pot stirring to a minimum. :wink2:
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
53,986
Gypsy|1412832891|3764709 said:
I was there during the cut wars, though at the tail end when people like Mara had a J and Kristy Darling had a gorgeous 3 carat H. And warmer colors were gaining popularity.

I started posting right at the time when "icy white" was still said with a serious voice, and not in jest. And I'll admit, when I joined I was REALLY happy my diamond was an F and therefore acceptable.

And I also snoozed, probably right along side Deco, at the millions of posts dissecting super ideals to death. But I was a newbie. And now, I rely on those tools and I've come to appreciate them.

I don't think it's been an 'evolution" I think it's just been a progression. And it's been an interesting ride. I personally think that we are more balanced in our approach to helping people find diamonds now.

I would have been under fire for my post in this thread, for example, back then... but I firmly believe in what I wrote here, for example, and standby my post: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-ideal-cut-light-perf-rb-vs-hearts-arrows-rb.206369/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-ideal-cut-light-perf-rb-vs-hearts-arrows-rb.206369/[/URL]

I do see what Deb is saying... if you look at the before and after it's quite a glaring difference.

But there are factors, as arkieb notes, that contributed to the progression we see... so it's more of a narrative then a before after.

I do think that at this point I would like to offer some pie! In the spirit of Old PS, where pie was offered after everyone had beat each other up and things had progressed to a point where people's backs were up, but someone (usually Kaleigh or Mara) stepped in and said... hey we are all friends here, so let's take a piece of pie and reflect on the sweetness of that instead of some of the harsh words that have been said.

Again, still on codeine cough syrup so don't kill me for getting poetic and take some of the freaking pie!!

I've got key lime, pecan, chocolate, gluten free chocolate (another sign of the times) and apple (both gluten free and not). All home made and no preservatives.

Step up and take a slice folks...


And Kenny, how about you let me be a net nanny and ask you to keep the pot stirring to a minimum. :wink2:

And to add to Gyspy's generous peace offering (pun not intended lol) may I offer a slice or two (or more if you have a sweet tooth like me :bigsmile: ) of peanut butter pie. It's yummy!

pbsliceofpie.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
I was around then as well and found much of the early discussion way over my head. Interesting but too in-depth for me. :lol: Yes, it was about cut to the extreme with all the various instruments pit against one another. Only the very highest of all categories was considered (nothing below AGS000 and extremely high clarity and colour. PS was very different then. I think it only had 3 sub-forums at most too.
 

kathley

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
1,560
diamondseeker2006|1412831721|3764700 said:
kathley|1412820699|3764634 said:
Pyramid|1412811198|3764553 said:
I miss the cut wars though, I learned a lot from them, and miss seeing the vendors on here when I log in. I am starting to like the old cut talk though and how it is beauty in the eye of the beholder, everyone different. I especially love Kathleys stone and notice it in the avatar everytime I read a thread she has posted on. Brian from Whiteflash has good posts too and Wink ofcourse.

Thank you, Pyramid! I looked for over two years intensely for the perfect OEC for me. I chose my OEC by the facet pattern, as it was the only one that "spoke to me" and simply blew me away. There was no ASET in the mix of why I chose this particular stone. The icing on the cake for me is that the light play and fire of this stone has been described as "insane" by some as it is a super performer. A few months ago I was in Jim Summa's store and he happened to let me see the ASET of my diamond. I was stunned to see that it looked identical to GOG's AVR's in symmetry and colors! Jim was not surprised because with his professional eye for diamonds, he said he knew it was super bright and a high performer. In short, I chose this diamond by its facet pattern. 8)

I am sure I have told you before how much I love your diamond and how it reminds me of mine! You were so fortunate to find such a beautifully cut antique stone! It is fabulous that you were able to see the ASET of your diamond! It confirmed the great cut that you were seeing with your eyes! That is why I am a big supporter of ASETs even for antique cuts, and even if I have to buy an ASET scope myself, I will definitely be using one if and when I find an antique stone I am interested in!

(See Deb, I still care about cut quality regardless of how old a diamond is! Tiffany and Cartier have some gorgeous antique diamond jewelry, and it goes to show there were great cutters 100 years ago, too!)

Yes, you have always been very complimentary of my diamond...thank you! =) I also agree with you that I am a supporter of ASET's as well and I think it can be a helpful tool. Since antique OEC's are unique to themselves in that I believe no two will be identical in all attributes, I am elevating the possible use of the ASET to be an identifier tool of antique OEC's in the event of diamond replacement "value" for insurance purposes if my diamond was ever lost or stolen. I can envision my insurance company saying here is x dollars now go and buy a replacement OEC for your diamond. As we have seen, it is not that easy to find a great cut and high performing antique OEC. In my personal case, I would be looking at AVR's as a replacement as that is the make and performance that closely resembles what I have and love. So, to show this, I believe an ASET would be a helpful tool in this scenario.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
3,254
Hi,

I thought of this situation more like when the Pope told Catholics they no longer had to eat fish on Friday. It had been a sin, but was no longer. They could eat meat now. Some Catholics had a very hard adjusting to the new rule. Others said, yea, we can eat meat now.

The history was that some Pope, way back, had a brother in the fishing industry that he wished to help. Thus was born the requirement of fish on Friday.

Deb, your question self selects posters who want to defend their choices. completely ignoring that that was not what you were asking?

Since You mentioned what your husband does for a living, I think he understands the marketplace better than most. Ask him why there are no objections from the "light performance proponents". Being quiet benefits them now. Why would they alienate those with old-cuts.

Annette
 

vintagelover229

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
3,550
I don't have anything useful to add but I will say that when I joined I wanted I color or better and eye clean-then I owned a J AVC and it was an SI2 and it was eye clean. THEN I bought a non-ideal H VVS1 and I didn't like the stone at all-I thought it was neat to have a high color/clarity stone but it just didn't do it for me at all.

During my time on PS I've had the chance to see ideal cuts of higher color stones-non-ideal antique cuts of lower color (M and even lower) and also had the chance to see antique asscher diamonds and other OMC and OEC's in person.

I made the decison to sell my diamond and get a branded AVR of much lower color/clarity than my first stone-but it's the same size and TO ME it looks WAY better than my old stone did in my current setting. I could care less abou the 'warmth' or it being 'worth less' due to the color/clairty and what the diamond market says is worth what. To ME it's perfect and I'd rather have an AVR of lower color and worth less (since I didn't even want to insure my old stone due to the high value on the apprasial) and now will have a diamond I love-that is unique and I can feel comfortable insuring.

I realize many people would have paid the 1k to get everything recut and have a smaller well cut higher color/clarity diamond or flat out sold and bought an antique diamond but for us this was the best route to go. When I pick it up in a 8 weeks I'll be sure to share lots of before and after pictures-and how I feel about the change-but I have a feeling it will be positive :)

p1010480_-_copy.jpg

p1010487_-_copy.jpg

dsc01091.jpg

_23070.jpg
 

lambskin

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,053
I think the bigger travesty is not the sale of the lower or warmer colored vintage cuts but rather the sale of black and brown diamonds--those diamonds that were in the spectrum that nobody wanted for centuries. These are the diamonds that are being sold to the masses who cannot afford a decent diamond for the price. The marketing of "black ice' or "chocolate' diamonds has been brilliant and many a buyer has fallen prey. Why buy a carbon spot when a piece of onyx can do. Same with smokey quartz or topaz for the chocolate diamonds. But these buyers proclaim that they have a diamond! By allowing India to cut whatever crap diamond comes up from the ground as long as it can be faceted it will end up in some cheap (or overpriced) piece of jewelry.
 

NonieMarie

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
948
AGBF|1412828942|3764679 said:
kenny|1412828080|3764675 said:
I'll still like what I'm wearing...and not cry over what I'm wearing, or feel some resentment that styles changed.

Guess what, kenny? I LIKE WHAT I LIKE,TOO. That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

This thread, contrary to popular belief, was not started to rob people of their right to enjoy vintage cuts. It was started to question why vintage cuts had suddenly become all the rage after ALL THE EXPERTS HAD SPENT DECADES EDUCATING US ABOUT THE NECESSITY OF USING THEIR PRECIOUS INSTRUMENTS.

I never used any of their instuments myself.

And I love all my diamonds.

AGBF

I got what you were saying from your first post. It amazes me how a question can turn to NASTY responses so quickly here. I guess it is the anonymity of sitting in front of a computer screen.
 
Be a part of the community Get 3 HCA Results
Top