Why is PS slower than 10 yrs ago?

[pyramid]

Old posts are still on the forum try doing a search on posts from 2007 and see what it was like. The forum was different people got 90 point D VS2s or sometimes a hearts and arrows 1.10 G VS1, then an influx of people started getting J SI1s and it went down from there and up in size, so a 1.50 ct J SI1 was the thing, now a 2 carat L SI1 and more recently 3 and 4 carat U SI2 or sometimes VVS2 because the diamond is more cheap due to the low color so higher clarity can be achieved. Maybe the recession had to do with it. No experts to help new buyers although they all still ask for the experts to help them but they don't exist on the board now. The experts were all gemmologists or appraisers with many years behind them, like Wink. They could comment on other dealers stones and so you got the full picture of what was going on.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Old posts are still on the forum try doing a search on posts from 2007 and see what it was like. The forum was different people got 90 point D VS2s or sometimes a hearts and arrows 1.10 G VS1, then an influx of people started getting J SI1s and it went down from there and up in size, so a 1.50 ct J SI1 was the thing, now a 2 carat L SI1 and more recently 3 and 4 carat U SI2 or sometimes VVS2 because the diamond is more cheap due to the low color so higher clarity can be achieved. Maybe the recession had to do with it. No experts to help new buyers although they all still ask for the experts to help them but they don't exist on the board now. The experts were all gemmologists or appraisers with many years behind them, like Wink. They could comment on other dealers stones and so you got the full picture of what was going on.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with people valuing size over colour and clarity. In a way, it is good to see different people choosing different things, according to their own criteria. This is one reason why I like coloured stones - one of the guidelines is "what do you want?" and it is pretty clear that some posters value colour over everything (which is often how stones are priced), others really want a precision or fancy cut and some like off the beat, devalued colours (grey spinels, anyone?) and show us how gorgeous such stones can be as well.

I admit I post a lot less than I used to. The reasons are simple and are the same ones why I am posting less and less online in general. First, people are not open to hearing and processing different opinions. My friends have a huge variety of opinion and are on all points of the political spectrum. The one thing they all agree on: "I would love to debate with [insert opposite position here] but they are all idiots/don't listen/it is impossible to talk to them/they believe everything they see on [insert media of choice]." Funny how everyone sees themselves as reasonable but everyone else as unreasonable and how often they think those that disagree with them are idiots, or brainwashed or "sheeple" (I hate that expression). Intelligent people do come to different conclusions and there are intelligent people on all sides of any debate.

This leads to my second problem. Pot stirring, creating threads that are just baits for those who disagree, etc. Looking over the topics on Hangout, many are "clickbait", made to get people's hackles up instead of to welcome real conversation. I am tempted to post examples, but that would be counterproductive. I don't want to argue if one thread or another is fine or isn't, I am worried about the overall trend.

All over the internet, people seem to be getting more and more aggressive, more and more slam-happy and forgetting that there are people on the other side of the screen as well. Rage posting is more common and I see many people I know in real life posting things that I know they would never speak out. I also know that I am guilty of this as well. I have been cutting back on my internet time because I feel it is making me a worse person, instead of opening my mind and connecting me to people.

This doesn't mean we have to be "nice" and sugary sweet all the time, just that we should treat people with consideration, respect their opinion (even if we don't agree) and talk like corteous, civilized adults. Each of us have valid reasons for our beliefs and we should try to understand them.

One thing that worries me is that we are treating each other like enemies, not like members of a community. Political discourse reminds me of war time propaganda, where the enemy was made out to be evil, dehumanized and demonified, so that it was easier to just hate them and wage war. Remember the story about the sports games played across enemy lines on Christmas Day on WWII? They were stopped because it was dangerous for soldiers to recognize the enemy as human, as someone like them. So democrats think that republicans are gun happy idiots, republicans think that democrats are off in lala land (yes, generalizing madly here ). I wish we could turn this tide around, recognize each other as fellow people and that most of are trying to find a better solution, even if we reach different conclusions.

 

[kenny]

Gypsy I love your guts but on RT you are very guilty of directing people to color and clarity grades that you prefer.
No, you're not the only one but you are the most powerful one, and like me you are outspoken, fearless and brazen.
Unfortunately, you don't present those C&C grades as your opinion.
You present them as fact, the ONLY grades that should be considered by anyone.
Please stop doing that.

IMO it is intolerance of diversity.

Sure, educate that higher color and clarity do not result in better light performance, a very common misconception perpeturated by vendors who would love to sell more-expensve stones.
And sure, educate that eye-clean is a threshold that many prefer along with the reasoning.

But don't say things like an F is a waste of money, or clarity grades higher than eye-clean are a waste of money.
(I don't have an exact quote, but don't need one.)

After education if someone still wants an E VVS2, please let it go.

You are an invaluable asset to PS and RT but I know you don't like criticism.
I've been biting my tongue because you have a razor-sharp sword, but I just had to say this before I explode.
Just a sprinkle of an IMO or two would do.

You know ... all that matters is Kenny being happy ... our loveable net nanny.

Thanks.

 

[kenny]

Lady_Disdain, thank you for a very thoughtful post.

 

[Karl_K]

Kenny,
RT and pricescope is based on consumers sharing their experiences and preferences with trade members providing education.
She has every right to make recommendations based on her experience and opinions.
If you want to present your opinions in a thread and your own recommendations then do so but your out of line above and it has been reported.

Now call me a net-nanny

 

[Gypsy]

Thank you Karl, my friend. And mentor.

Kenny I am conscious of it and try VERY hard not to do that. I'm sorry to hear I haven't been successful in your eyes. And I'm always open to thoughtful feedback from well intentioned people who want to help out RT people. Mostly off the boards, but people give me feedback all the time, and I really try very hard to be thoughtful and appreciative of it.

I repeatedly tell people that color tolerances are personal. And that they should see for themselves what they want. And I stress that being color sensitive is about more than being able to see color, but rather a matter of being bothered by it. Seeing color just means your eyes work.

Regarding clarity, I may be a bit of a clarity Nazi. I really don't believe in paying for things you can't see. But I will try to be more tolerant of higher clarity grades, while still explaining that Si1 can be perfectly good for brilliant cuts.

But most of the people on that board don't want to do independent research. They want someone to tell them what to do, often. And we do the best we can. I'd welcome you to post more and provide a different perspective.

So in response to that I've been cutting and pasting the below. You'll notice I try very hard to avoid telling people what is best. I tell them what the conservative choice is then explain the shades of white. I want you to understand I am very conscious of not abusing "my power as much as I can. I try very hard to keep my personal preferences out of it.

What would you recommend I change about the below? Because this is pretty much ALL I've been saying about color for the last 6-8 months. I've just been cutting and pasting it. If there are changes you think should be made I'd be happy to consider them.

"It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.

If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

 

[kenny]

Wow, Karl.
Just wow.

 

[Karl_K]

Wow, Karl.
Just wow.

Your shocked?
I have defended you when you were unfairly attacked and or talked about both in public and private because I like and respect you.
Did you not think I would do the same for others that I like and respect?

 

[arkieb1]

Kenny, Gypsy has far more patience and tolerance with newbies than most of us, (you and I included) will ever have. There are a heck of a lot of young guys and girls for that matter that somehow think buying a crap cut diamond that is E IF or E VVS clarity = something that is going to be perfect. Gypsy and a very small handful of others beat the same drum about lowering colour and clarity and finding a better cut to get them to realise that is going to give them the optimum stone for their budgets.

If the person is educated - which 90% or more of them are not and still want to buy an E coloured diamond (in many Asian cultures ice white diamonds are preferable) then I don't think once that is realised anyone is trying to talk them out of that. The average Joe that turns up would not be able to tell the difference between a E VVS2 with an average cut and a F VS2 with an average cut. Wink and other vendors have consistently repeated that if they put a number of stones in a tray and ask them to pick between a E VVS2 with a average cut and a F VS2 or lower with a perfect cut - they almost always pick the stone that has the most fire and the diamond that is the most visually appealing sparkly wise to the human eye. Jon from GOG and many others repeat similar experiences.

 

[Gypsy]

Callie, I don't know if "EVER" is going to happen. LOL. But I have no plans to leave. And if I did, it wouldn't be with a GBCPS post, it would just be because I've moved on.

To be fair, I believe you did state you would not pursue this thread but have repeatedly. I am aware that is not GBCP but a fact I think is relevant.

This thread has certainly gone South big time.

I don't see your point when you say "to be fair". I'm sorry I don't think I was unfair. Callie and I have a good relationship and I took her post for what it was, and simply explained to her that I had no plans to leave.

As for the thread: I was going to leave the thread after being bullied. I changed my mind. And I explained this in a very straightforward manner.

As for the thread going South. I disagree. It's evolved and meandered and people have expressed their opinions. Perhaps you'd prefer kittens and rainbows, if so there are a ton of threads on that. But this is the most interesting and substantive post we've had in a long time.

Even if it did start as a pot stirring post.

 

[Gypsy]

Kenny, Gypsy has far more patience and tolerance with newbies than most of us, (you and I included) will ever have. There are a heck of a lot of young guys and girls for that matter that somehow think buying a crap cut diamond that is E IF or E VVS clarity = something that is going to be perfect. Gypsy and a very small handful of others beat the same drum about lowering colour and clarity and finding a better cut to get them to realise that is going to give them the optimum stone for their budgets.

If the person is educated - which 90% or more of them are not and still want to buy an E coloured diamond (in many Asian cultures ice white diamonds are preferable) then I don't think once that is realised anyone is trying to talk them out of that. The average Joe that turns up would not be able to tell the difference between a E VVS2 with an average cut and a F VS2 with an average cut. Wink and other vendors have consistently repeated that if they put a number of stones in a tray and ask them to pick between a E VVS2 with a average cut and a F VS2 or lower with a perfect cut - they almost always pick the stone that has the most fire and the diamond that is the most visually appealing sparkly wise to the human eye. Jon from GOG and many others repeat similar experiences.

Thank you arkieb, you explained it better than I could have.

Kenny, you are always free to BE the change you want to see. My sharp tongue doesn't ever prevent that, even on RT. If you want to see higher color and clarity recommendations, or what not, I encourage you to post on RT with your point of view. No one is stopping you. And certainly not me.

 

[crown1]

Callie, I don't know if "EVER" is going to happen. LOL. But I have no plans to leave. And if I did, it wouldn't be with a GBCPS post, it would just be because I've moved on.

To be fair, I believe you did state you would not pursue this thread but have repeatedly. I am aware that is not GBCP but a fact I think is relevant.

This thread has certainly gone South big time.

I don't see your point when you say "to be fair". I'm sorry I don't think I was unfair. Callie and I have a good relationship and I took her post for what it was, and simply explained to her that I had no plans to leave.

As for the thread: I was going to leave the thread after being bullied. I changed my mind. And I explained this in a very straightforward manner.

As for the thread going South. I disagree. It's evolved and meandered and people have expressed their opinions. Perhaps you'd prefer kittens and rainbows, if so there are a ton of threads on that. But this is the most interesting and substantive post we've had in a long time.

Even if it did start as a pot stirring post.

If you have the right to feel bullied, say you are leaving a thread, and then decide to return, so do others who have felt the same, said gbcp then changed their minds and returned. That is to be fair. I did not feel bullied and did not say I prefer kittens and rainbows so I believe I will stay right here. It is your opinion that this is the most interesting and substantive post we've had in a long time. I only agree that it has been revealing. I believe Ella just asked for no pot stirring in the last day or so. I respect her wish cause it is not my forum. But you feel free to carry on as you wish cause to quote you using anothers phrase " not my circus, not my monkey". I am finished discussing this because I have no dog in this hunt and I have no need to debate with you. Have a nice evening.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Thank you Karl, my friend. And mentor.

Kenny I am conscious of it and try VERY hard not to do that. I'm sorry to hear I haven't been successful in your eyes. And I'm always open to thoughtful feedback from well intentioned people who want to help out RT people. Mostly off the boards, but people give me feedback all the time, and I really try very hard to be thoughtful and appreciative of it.

I repeatedly tell people that color tolerances are personal. And that they should see for themselves what they want. And I stress that being color sensitive is about more than being able to see color, but rather a matter of being bothered by it. Seeing color just means your eyes work.

Regarding clarity, I may be a bit of a clarity Nazi. I really don't believe in paying for things you can't see. But I will try to be more tolerant of higher clarity grades, while still explaining that Si1 can be perfectly good for brilliant cuts.

But most of the people on that board don't want to do independent research. They want someone to tell them what to do, often. And we do the best we can. I'd welcome you to post more and provide a different perspective.

So in response to that I've been cutting and pasting the below. You'll notice I try very hard to avoid telling people what is best. I tell them what the conservative choice is then explain the shades of white. I want you to understand I am very conscious of not abusing "my power as much as I can. I try very hard to keep my personal preferences out of it.

What would you recommend I change about the below? Because this is pretty much ALL I've been saying about color for the last 6-8 months. I've just been cutting and pasting it. If there are changes you think should be made I'd be happy to consider them.

"It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H.

If you are talking fancy shapes without ideal light return (because there is no 'ideal' for EC's Radiant, etc) it's a bit different.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them side by side. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white, you only see the contrast because of the proximity. But it's very slight, you could set an F center with G sides and never tell the difference. And even H sides depending on the setting and the size of the sidestones... especially with round brilliants.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

Copying and saving this for (dear god please let it be soon) future diamond shopping. Wow

 

[Laila619]

Some posters bitch and moan about being called "bullies" but then those same posters think it's perfectly fine to go around shouting "net nanny" at others? Seems like a double standard to me.

 

[Lula]

Old posts are still on the forum try doing a search on posts from 2007 and see what it was like. The forum was different people got 90 point D VS2s or sometimes a hearts and arrows 1.10 G VS1, then an influx of people started getting J SI1s and it went down from there and up in size, so a 1.50 ct J SI1 was the thing, now a 2 carat L SI1 and more recently 3 and 4 carat U SI2 or sometimes VVS2 because the diamond is more cheap due to the low color so higher clarity can be achieved. Maybe the recession had to do with it. No experts to help new buyers although they all still ask for the experts to help them but they don't exist on the board now. The experts were all gemmologists or appraisers with many years behind them, like Wink. They could comment on other dealers stones and so you got the full picture of what was going on.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with people valuing size over colour and clarity. In a way, it is good to see different people choosing different things, according to their own criteria. This is one reason why I like coloured stones - one of the guidelines is "what do you want?" and it is pretty clear that some posters value colour over everything (which is often how stones are priced), others really want a precision or fancy cut and some like off the beat, devalued colours (grey spinels, anyone?) and show us how gorgeous such stones can be as well.

I admit I post a lot less than I used to. The reasons are simple and are the same ones why I am posting less and less online in general. First, people are not open to hearing and processing different opinions. My friends have a huge variety of opinion and are on all points of the political spectrum. The one thing they all agree on: "I would love to debate with [insert opposite position here] but they are all idiots/don't listen/it is impossible to talk to them/they believe everything they see on [insert media of choice]." Funny how everyone sees themselves as reasonable but everyone else as unreasonable and how often they think those that disagree with them are idiots, or brainwashed or "sheeple" (I hate that expression). Intelligent people do come to different conclusions and there are intelligent people on all sides of any debate.

This leads to my second problem. Pot stirring, creating threads that are just baits for those who disagree, etc. Looking over the topics on Hangout, many are "clickbait", made to get people's hackles up instead of to welcome real conversation. I am tempted to post examples, but that would be counterproductive. I don't want to argue if one thread or another is fine or isn't, I am worried about the overall trend.

All over the internet, people seem to be getting more and more aggressive, more and more slam-happy and forgetting that there are people on the other side of the screen as well. Rage posting is more common and I see many people I know in real life posting things that I know they would never speak out. I also know that I am guilty of this as well. I have been cutting back on my internet time because I feel it is making me a worse person, instead of opening my mind and connecting me to people.

This doesn't mean we have to be "nice" and sugary sweet all the time, just that we should treat people with consideration, respect their opinion (even if we don't agree) and talk like corteous, civilized adults. Each of us have valid reasons for our beliefs and we should try to understand them.

One thing that worries me is that we are treating each other like enemies, not like members of a community. Political discourse reminds me of war time propaganda, where the enemy was made out to be evil, dehumanized and demonified, so that it was easier to just hate them and wage war. Remember the story about the sports games played across enemy lines on Christmas Day on WWII? They were stopped because it was dangerous for soldiers to recognize the enemy as human, as someone like them. So democrats think that republicans are gun happy idiots, republicans think that democrats are off in lala land (yes, generalizing madly here ). I wish we could turn this tide around, recognize each other as fellow people and that most of are trying to find a better solution, even if we reach different conclusions.

Bravo!

 

[AGBF]

I was just thinking that I was glad that this thread wasn't in "Around The World" because if it were then we people who want the privilege of discussing politics would probably be about to lose that privilege pronto. So I am grateful for my blessings.

Deb

 

[pyramid]

Sorry but I feel the same way as Kenny. It is not just Gypsy but back in the days when Mara got her first J color diamond, it was put across about cut being able to mask color and that it was better to spend your money on a lower color better cut diamond. In the same way Gypsy has in her advice notes that color is not viewed from the face up and you don't wear a diamond face down. It is the overall way the diamonds are being marketed, that get as much as you can for looks of the stone and your money and the bit about how valuable diamonds are supposed to be ...in the way of precious stones..... is being forgotten. It seems they are no longer thought of as expensive, but as affordable so to speak. This is not wrong, it is good for people buying who cannot afford a D Flawless as most cannot but it does not sell it to the people who do want to get a colorless and high clarity diamond as big as they can even if it is only a half carat.

I don't think Kenny should be reported for stating something that has been seen here for some time. I read somewhere else on the internet about Pricescope being all about lower colored diamonds now and old cut and it was no more than a club now of people who wanted antique stones.


Lady Disdain, I loved your post, it is food for thought about the agressive stances now and that we need to take a break, infact I feel too that it is making me a worse person and after reading your post thought you are so right and maybe I need a break too. I also realise there is nothing wrong with people getting lower color diamonds or larger diamonds and adjusting for this but it is not so much about what people get as the way the board is coming across. Maybe I am seeing it wrong as after all it is to help people and yes if they say they want the biggest they can possibly get but they are not being sold on high colors this way or get a small precious stone of best clarity, that is just seen as being too small and is not even mentioned. The under 1 carat thread touches on this but this is only through people who own smaller better quality diamonds. Infact I was told in a previous post when I spoke of better quality that a D Fl is not better quality and color just is. Well then why is it more expensive, well I was told it was more rare but not better quality. I feel it is better quality in my mind to have a D Fl although I don't own one.

 

[AGBF]

Lady_Disdain-

I agree with the many other posters who admired your statement about the Internet and how we treat each other while using it. It is typical of you. You are a very thoughtful, intelligent woman. I love reading your contributions to the book thread because of that!

Deb

 

[pyramid]

I am in the UK so maybe it is different from my perspective, but I grew up thinking diamonds, rubies and sapphires were precious stones, cost lots and lots of money, like a princess would wear, but here the vibe is not for the most precious stone but the more affordable stone which is BIG whether it is big and not so precious anymore does not matter.

Back in the day, I realise things change, but Pricescope appraisers spoke of how diamonds in Canada were said to be more white than from other places, they were not speaking about a h looking whiter than an H from Africa, they were talking about the E and F color stones looking that way. We never hear about the top grade stones now, unless we look at those huge stones at Auction formillions of pound which are shown sometimes in the side bar. Where is that piece of top grade in the everyday woman's engagement ring now, it is not being sold here in a half carat size, but there are plenty of 1 carat plus i & j diamonds being promoted or suggested to buyers.


I wonder if the vendors who advertise here have something to do with it, not to do with what Gypsy is helping people with, but how the vibe over the years has changed from smaller high color to larger low color and if it is because certain vendors are cutting low colored rough rather than higher color and rarer rough. If we promoted coloreless diamonds say would these vendors have little to sell. Just wondering this I have no knowledge of what are in inventories. I do notice that mall stores sell k and l colors but they are not thought to be the precious top grade colorless diamonds. Are colorless diamonds so rare and expensive now that they are just for the elite e.g. cartier or harry winston buyers and not for most people in USA and so that is why the board is promoting larger lower color. I do know that when Mara got her 1.5 carat J that the vendor at the time was selling large sizes in lower colors and not as many higher colors were being bought by pricescopers. They went from 1 carat G to 1.5 carat Js maybe because they just couldn't afford the G in that size but it was being promoted HEAVILY HERE cut is king and you don't need to spend on color. Promoted by pricescopers and the vendor alike. Is this good education or self serving to sell people bigger diamonds to customers who before may have kept their 1 carat for life. Now we wonder why Diamond Shrinkage is a problem for pricescopers. Is it because we got bigger stones than would have been possible before and so we not want to do the same again but need to go even lower to get that. Is it just greed for size.

 

[monarch64]

It's a little early for Festivus, but we PSr's have always been ahead of the trends...

 

[pyramid]

Are large, well cut diamonds of lower color and clarity sold in the USA at places like Tiffany, no they only sell down to I color. Are they sold in the jewellers of America, or are they an internet created product. So people won't go to their local jeweller to buy a 1.10 G color VS2 because they can buy a 1.5 carat K SI2 for the same price on line and they are hooked in by it being a better cut. Can it really be distinguished from a Very Good Cut at arms length by the average person who is not into diamonds anymore than they are into fashion.

 

[Laila619]

Lots of people push their diamond preferences on the newbies. That is par for the course, and newbies need to read all advice with an open mind and a grain of salt. People tend to state their opinions as though they were facts, e.g.: only BGD/ACA diamonds are the best, only AGS graded diamonds are worthwhile, you don't use the HCA with AGS diamonds, platinum is the best metal around, Victor Canera does the best pave ever, you should only buy VS2 and above, J/K is too visibly tinted, Blue Nile is crap, Tiffany and Co is a waste of money, etc. I am sure I have probably done it too. All of those are just personal opinions though. PS is a great place for helpful advice, but a lot of it can be biased.

 

[pyramid]

Has the internet made dianonds more affordable but taken the preciousness out of them? I think that happened for me though, when I read there were enough diamonds in the world to give every man, woman and child in America a paper cup full of them.

Maybe how they are promoted here is right Kenny, and we need to lose how we rate them, meaning they are not so rare and precious as we think. Would people still want them as engagement rings then just because they are shiny but not really precious at all. So viewing them face up does not show the color and well anyway a lower color is just the same price as a higher color now because they are all pretty cheap and in plentiful supply.

 

[iheartscience]

I don't post anymore because it's a snoozefest. I pretty much never lurk, either. I think it's slower here because all interesting topics are banned and most people can be found on Facebook, where you can interact with people without the pointless restrictions, i.e. no private messaging, no politics, etc. The net nannying PC police doesn't help, either.

That said, I'm glad I was on PS when it was super active. Through PS and FB I was able to connect with some really great women, some of whom are my closest friends. The only issue is I want them all to live in my neighborhood!

 

[cflutist]

I am in the UK so maybe it is different from my perspective, but I grew up thinking diamonds, rubies and sapphires were precious stones, cost lots and lots of money, like a princess would wear, but here the vibe is not for the most precious stone but the more affordable stone which is BIG whether it is big and not so precious anymore does not matter.

Back in the day, I realise things change, but Pricescope appraisers spoke of how diamonds in Canada were said to be more white than from other places, they were not speaking about a h looking whiter than an H from Africa, they were talking about the E and F color stones looking that way. We never hear about the top grade stones now, unless we look at those huge stones at Auction formillions of pound which are shown sometimes in the side bar. Where is that piece of top grade in the everyday woman's engagement ring now, it is not being sold here in a half carat size, but there are plenty of 1 carat plus i & j diamonds being promoted or suggested to buyers.


I wonder if the vendors who advertise here have something to do with it, not to do with what Gypsy is helping people with, but how the vibe over the years has changed from smaller high color to larger low color and if it is because certain vendors are cutting low colored rough rather than higher color and rarer rough. If we promoted coloreless diamonds say would these vendors have little to sell. Just wondering this I have no knowledge of what are in inventories. I do notice that mall stores sell k and l colors but they are not thought to be the precious top grade colorless diamonds. Are colorless diamonds so rare and expensive now that they are just for the elite e.g. cartier or harry winston buyers and not for most people in USA and so that is why the board is promoting larger lower color. I do know that when Mara got her 1.5 carat J that the vendor at the time was selling large sizes in lower colors and not as many higher colors were being bought by pricescopers. They went from 1 carat G to 1.5 carat Js maybe because they just couldn't afford the G in that size but it was being promoted HEAVILY HERE cut is king and you don't need to spend on color. Promoted by pricescopers and the vendor alike. Is this good education or self serving to sell people bigger diamonds to customers who before may have kept their 1 carat for life. Now we wonder why Diamond Shrinkage is a problem for pricescopers. Is it because we got bigger stones than would have been possible before and so we not want to do the same again but need to go even lower to get that. Is it just greed for size.

I think that is just a generalization as there ARE people here that still want high color diamonds. There is a "Show me your D color" thread. Oooohshiny just bought a CBI F-VVS2 so he got the king of cut, color, and clarity. I still own a 1.5 F-VS1, had a 2.05 D-VS2 that I traded in for a 3.01 F-SI1 (yes I compromised on clarity a bit) and am currently waiting for Paul Slegers to custom "cut to order" a 2.3+ F-SI1. I just looked at Wink's HPD website and there is a 1.09 D-IF CBI diamond (it doesn't get any better than that) that is $35K and a 1.09 E-IF CBI diamond for $24K so these diamonds are available for those who don't mind paying for top quality.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I don't post anymore because it's a snoozefest. I pretty much never lurk, either. I think it's slower here because all interesting topics are banned and most people can be found on Facebook, where you can interact with people without the pointless restrictions, i.e. no private messaging, no politics, etc. The net nannying PC police doesn't help, either.

That said, I'm glad I was on PS when it was super active. Through PS and FB I was able to connect with some really great women, some of whom are my closest friends. The only issue is I want them all to live in my neighborhood!

Now we can talk politics..

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/around-the-world/']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/around-the-world/[/URL]

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="cflutist|
I think that is just a generalization as there ARE people here that still want high color diamonds. There is a "Show me your D color" thread. Oooohshiny just bought a CBI F-VVS2 so he got the king of cut, color, and clarity. I still own a 1.5 F-VS1, had a 2.05 D-VS2 that I traded in for a 3.01 F-SI1 (yes I compromised on clarity a bit) and am currently waiting for Paul Slegers to custom "cut to order" a 2.3+ F-SI1. I just looked at Wink's HPD website and there is a 1.09 D-IF CBI diamond (it doesn't get any better than that) that is $35K and a 1.09 E-IF CBI diamond for $24K so these diamonds are available for those who don't mind paying for top quality.[/quote]


If I had your money I'll buy an F color too... as for the clarity a nice SI1 or VS2 is fine with me.

 

[decodelighted]

Interesting. I guess we aren't all monsters and killers and what not if she's back. What is her current nickname? Regarding Ally's thread. Just reread. I stand by what I wrote.

Ditto. Re-read it the other night when all this "OMG BULLIES!!!" talk started. BTW - Ally has posted since then ... in GYPSY's 30K thread. Tells you something about how SHE felt, hmmmm?

 

[pyramid]

If someone has a budget though of say $7000 the helpers are always saying if you go down in clarity or color you could go up in size, then they list links for diamonds in that way (I know many come on the board asking for the largest diamond they could get), we never see though it being said, Do you want colorless or in the near colorless range, are you interested in high clarity, it is just right away that they are told that you won't see anything above SI clarity and H and above are colorless, but here is an I SI1 .90 carat with an AGS000. We never see well if you went up to F color and kept it at VS2 you would get a .65 carat of ideal cut.

Then posters say, how great Gypsy was she got us a 1.12 carat and we can't see a thing in it, it is just the same as and bigger than my friends 1.35 carat ring which she paid 8000 dollars more for, so in other words they got a bargain, but unknown to the board the friends ring was a G VVS2 from Cartier and not a J SI1 from the internet.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with going bigger it is just it is always going in that direction, but it seems we are trying to fake it into larger diamond territory. I suppose there can be lesser 2 carat stones than the top quality ones though, there are lesser leather in mall bags than in designer bags. With the diamond turned in the correct way upside down for grading it can be seen which is the top grade diamond. Also the larger the diamond the more it shows its color.

I am finding it very hard to change how I feel about diamonds, I would rather a 80 point G VS2 than a lower 1 carat, so it is probably impossible for people helping others to buy diamonds to be impartial and not promote how they feel too. Maybe that is why in years past in the UK anyway, you just got the tray of diamonds, and looked with your eyes at the one you liked best in your price range, and were not educated in what made a diamond better e.g. high color or larger lower color. Think the old jewellers had it right in some ways. Too technical is maybe too much. You get better quality of cut through technical development and you get better prices on the internet but may spend just as much money going up in size so it is not a bargain Why not get great cut, and great prices so go up in color or clarity and keep size where it lands? Cut is King is making diamond sizes go up and making people more greedy.

 

[Gypsy]

Here's the funny thing.

People keep eluding how RT posters push our personal preferences on people.

Let me tell you what my personal preferences are.
I don't LIKE MRBs. Except as melee or studs. I find them boring. Yet, you'll see me picking MRB for people all day long. If I wanted to push my preferences onto people I'd tell them not to buy rounds as ring stones because they are boring an unoriginal (this is how I feel). But I don't do that.

My own diamond is an F VS1. I tell people that with respect to FANCIES color and clarity are things you can't be too picky about. You aren't going to find an SI1 eyeclean stone in a fancy every time. You might have to buy a VVS stone. There just isn't the same selection.

I actually have a preference for high colored ring stones, personally. Except in OEC's. Yet, as noted on here I open people up to H-I-J's as needed all day long. So again, not pushing my personal preference.

I have a preference for low colored studs in MRBs. And when I state that I am VERY clear that it is a PERSONAL preference. I certainly don't think everyone should by J or K's but I explain why I prefer them. That's not pushing my preference. I will look for stones in any color and clarity if asked to.

I do have a preference for excellent light return. But I don't tend to like ideal cuts actually. Not even in fancies. And as stated, I don't care for rounds at all. I don't like the AVCs or AVRs. I would own AVRs as earrings. But as ring stones: no. The only ideal cuts to date I've liked is the Mark T modern cushions, but I haven't seen them in person yet. And they are pricey. So I haven't been pushing those either. I've been sticking to generic cushions to help people get more size in their budget. But in general I find them lacking character, and I prefer character. Still, I help people find AVCs and what not when asked.

The fact is, I actually don't push my personal preferences onto people at all. Neither does diamondseeker or any of the other frequent posters on RT. We all try very hard NOT to try to push our preferences on to people. What we DO post is our EXPERIENCE and our advice. But that advice is geared toward what that poster has posted about budget and size and other requirements.

What we do is educate and give people options and help them balance their budget with their requirements for other things.

I really do encourage all of you who want to see changes on RT to be the change you want to be. Please, post more on RT. We would LOVE it if you would.

But for those of you that don't post on RT, you really don't have the right to sit in judgement over us, do you? If you want to see change-- no one is stopping you for enacting that change yourself. If you want to see certain questions asked of posters... ask them. If you want to see certain recommendations made. Make them. That's completely within your hands.