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Heel spurs

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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there is a Chinese liniment that i'd try before i'd start the pain pills again.
comes in a red box: 'Use Zheng Gu Shui Liniment for temporary relief of minor strains, bruises, sprains muscular aches and pains and arthritis.'
I'd also give acupuncture a try.
bone spurs won't get much assistance from anything but removal, especially if they're still growing, but anything with muscle/tendon might be helped greatly.
 

movie zombie

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and yet another suggestion I rec'd in my inbox this a.m. re plantar:

Say No to Steroids with Chinese Medicine for Plantar Fasciitis

The foot condition called plantar fasciitis is a big pain in the…heel. If you have this, you know it with every step you take. That smarting pain happens because the plantar fascia, a thick band of tissue on the sole of the foot that connects the heel to the toes, is burning and sore with inflammation.

Exercise, icing, use of orthotic shoe inserts and, ultimately, corticosteroid injections are the usual treatments to dull the pain and help the plantar fascia calm down, relax and let you walk with ease again. But those treatments don’t always work very well, and the steroids can have some nasty side effects. So here's good news: A new acupuncture technique under study in China is outpacing steroid injections in its ability to provide safer, more lasting relief of pain and inflammation for people with plantar fasciitis…and to get the body to naturally heal itself.

The treatment involves the insertion of something called a miniscalpel needle (MSN) into the most painful point on the affected heel. Don't be put off by the term "scalpel"—this procedure isn't painful! The tool is shaped like an acupuncture needle but has a flat edge on the tip. For this reason, it is sometimes called an “acuneedle.” Its development was inspired both by traditional acupuncture needles and by other Chinese medicine techniques that force the body to heal itself—as we'll see below!

WAY BETTER THAN STEROIDS

The effectiveness of the MSN technique was recently tested in a study of 54 patients with plantar fasciitis who had gotten no relief from six months of treatments such as anti-inflammatory drugs, physical therapy and use of heel cushions. The next step would normally be corticosteroid injections as needed so, in this study, about half of the patients received a corticosteroid injection and the other half were given an MSN insertion procedure. Before being treated, all the patients rated their pain on a 10-point scale on which 10 meant excruciating pain and 0 meant no pain. The average pain scale rating for patients in both groups before treatment was about 7—enough pain to make getting around on foot miserable.

The MSN technique involved numbing the heel of the affected foot and then inserting the needle in a way similar to that of an acupuncture needle. The needle was moved up and down three to five times to “release” the plantar fasciitis and then taken out. Next, the doctor performing the procedures applied pressure to the spot for two minutes to keep it from bleeding before patching it with a bandage. Patients in both groups were instructed to stay off the affected foot as much as possible for the next two days.

One, six and 12 months after receiving treatment, patients rated their pain again. At one month, patients who had received the MSN treatment reported that their pain had significantly improved—their pain scores dropped way down from an average 7 to 1.6. Meanwhile, the average score of folks who received a corticosteroid injection dropped only three points, from 7 to 4. Patients who had received MSN were still feeling much better at six and 12 months, with pain scores dropping down even further to about 1—meaning that they hardly had any plantar fasciitis pain anymore. Meanwhile, pain scores for the patients who had received the corticosteroid injection instead of the MSN treatment were rapidly rising again to where they had been before treatment.

Side effects among people receiving the MSN technique were minor…a few people had soreness at the needle insertion site and one person had some mild bleeding, but these effects went away within two days of the procedure.

This study was a small but well-done, said orthopedic acupuncturist Don Lee, LAc, president of the American Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, who was not part of the study but who I reached out to for his take on the study and how the information could be used by my readers here in the US. “The MSN is actually not a needle as we know it,” he said. “The device actually looks like a small screwdriver, and the needle is more than twice as thick as the needles used for traditional acupuncture.” That may sound painful in and of itself, but, remember, the heel is numbed before the MSN is used. Also—and this may really surprise you—the point of the technique is to intentionally cause an injury beneath the skin to rally the body's healing resources to the whole affected area.

HOW YOU CAN BENEFIT

You may not have ready access (yet) to MSN in the United States, but there are techniques that have similar effects. Lee compared MSN to a traditional technique used in Chinese medicine called gua sha, (pronounced gwah sah), which means “scraping sand.” In this technique, the skin of the affected area is scraped until red rashlike spots called petechiae form. This causes the tissue to release chemicals, such as histamines and heparins, which increase blood flow. Increased blood flow, in turn, increases the flow of oxygen and nutrients to the area, healing it and clearing out waste products.

Gua sha is now commonly being used by acupuncturists and physical therapists to treat conditions such as plantar fasciitis. Plus, a Western technique called instrument-assisted soft tissue mobilization, which is based on gua sha and used by physical therapists, is specifically being used to treat plantar fasciitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, sprains and strains and a wide range of musculoskeletal pain syndromes. The “instruments” also resemble gua sha tools—handheld flat and comb- or rodlike scrapers. The idea behind the technique, like in the MSN technique, is to create a wound, however small, to marshal the body’s resources for recovery, said Lee.

So if you’ve been suffering with plantar fasciitis with little relief from various remedies, and your traditional Western medical doctor is now recommending corticosteroid shots—or if you’ve been putting up with corticosteroid shots to temporarily relieve the pain—you may want to consult a Chinese medicine specialist or ask for a referral to a physical therapist trained in instrument-assisted soft tissue mobilization. One of these treatments might finally help you really heal and overcome heel pain.

Sources: Don Lee, LAc, president of the American Association of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, diplomate of the National Board of Acupuncture Orthopedics and founder of the Academy of Orthopedic Acupuncture. The study on MSN was published in Evidenced-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

[urlhttp://www.bottomlinepublications.com/content/article/natural-remedies/say-no-to-steroids-with-chinese-medicine-for-plantar-fasciitis?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=2014-09-25%20DHN%20NL%20(1)&utm_content=&utm_source=Newsletter&cid=47039475&spMailingID=47039475&spUserID=NTE4NTg4MDMzMDkS1&spJobID=522980410&spReportId=NTIyOTgwNDEwS0][/url]
 

pearlsngems

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Long-time PF sufferer here! And I'm a physical therapist.

I can only wear one type of shoe and I even keep them next to my bed so that if I get up at night, I can put these on instead of slippers.

They are Dansko XP clogs-- these are the clogs that have memory foam inside. (I can't tolerate the usual Dansko clogs, which lack memory foam.) Before I bought these I was limping around with a cane-- with these I can walk normally, no cane, and my PF pain is slowly (very slowly) diminishing. I'd love for the pain to be gone entirely, but at least I can walk, and it isn't getting worse.

It began 21 years ago when my husband and I walked our feet off at Williamsburg, VA during our 1st anniversary trip. It returned when I was pregnant several years later, and I had to have customized insoles made, which I was able to stop wearing after giving birth. I then enjoyed many years with only brief recurrences, but it's been back with a vengeance for over a year now. I have a large heel spur, but the spur is not the source of the pain. Heel spur formation is actually the body's attempt to fix the problem by extending the attachment point of the plantar fascia forward, to reduce stretch on the plantar fascia and thus reduce pain. Since the spur isn't causing the pain and is just a result of the condition, I don't understand how removing the spur would help. One doesn't bear any weight on the heel spur-- it protrudes forward, toward the arch, not downward.

My husband began having PF in June and I immediately got him several pairs of Implus Sof Sole Plantar Fasciitis Insoles, recommended to me by a friend who found they helped her. His pain is entirely now gone. I bought them at Famous Footwear for $19.99-- there's a $5 mail in rebate going on for up to 2 pairs. I tried these myself but I think I'm too far gone for these to make much difference-- the XP clogs work better for me.
 

packrat

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Thanks MZ! I'm betting in my little hole in the wall area we'll never be progressive enough for that kind of medicine...I'd probably have to drive a few hours to find someone who practiced it. The liniment/ointment tho, maybe online could be found.

pearlsngems, do the clogs fall off your feet? I've had clogs before and I finally got rid of them bc sometimes my foot would slip out, I'd step on the end of it and damn if that's not like stepping on a lego or something.

I did find something out in my googlings just now--I have a high instep, so now I know why my feet look like sausages in some shoes!

Soooo plantar fasciitis, overpronation, high instep. Fabulous combo haha!

Can you have a high arch and still have PF?
 

packrat

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pearlsngems

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packrat|1411868007|3757953 said:
...pearlsngems, do the clogs fall off your feet? I've had clogs before and I finally got rid of them bc sometimes my foot would slip out, I'd step on the end of it and damn if that's not like stepping on a lego or something.
...
Can you have a high arch and still have PF?

No, the clogs do not fall off my feet. And I have high insteps.
They are not designed to cling to your feet the way regular shoes do. Your heel will rise a bit out of the heel of the shoe with each step-- but there is no friction from that on the back of the heel-- they are designed to be big enough to do that. You just learn to walk differently. You may have to buy different socks than you usually wear-- thicker, thinner, less slippery -- experiment to find the socks that work best with the clogs.

It's important to try the clogs on in person. Dansko clogs have a lot of variability in their fit. The right shoe may fit tighter than the left, for example. But if you ask the employee to bring out another pair in the same size, the second pair may fit better. I would not want to order them online because of this.

Also, I know they can be bought with synthetic uppers, but I prefer to buy the leather uppers as they can be stretched if necessary. The first pair I bought, I needed to have the right shoe's collar stretched by a cobbler to reduce pressure on a spot of my right foot that was sore at the time; it cost all of $5 and solved the problem. Could not have done this with a synthetic upper.

Editing to add: I have since then tried other brands of clogs, hoping to get the same result at a lower price. But I didn't find any that worked as well, for me. Many clogs have slightly higher heels than Dankso do; this pitches you forward slightly, which is harder on the low back. And some other brands of clogs don't have as high an arch as the Dansko, therefore do not support as well. But you can try for yourself.

Also, about supporting the arch-- I have used good quality athletic tape (non-stretchy) and kinesiology tape (stretchy) to tape my feet in a way that supports the arches, but that was before I bought the clogs, and did not work nearly as well.

I also wore a night splint, which did not help much. Massaging the sore area with an ice cube provides temporary relief.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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yes, Amazon has the liniment........
 

pearlsngems

Ideal_Rock
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I over-pronate my feet as well, and shoes that are too flexible (like the runners I used to wear all the time) fail to prevent this. The clogs are rigid and prevent the over-pronation.

My podiatrist had me wear $135 Aetrex shoes that were rigid, but these did not relieve my pain, did not support the arch enough, and within 7 weeks my toes had worn through the flimsy upper. An utter waste of money, those were. I mention this to say that preventing the pronation alone was not sufficient for me.

Another thing I am doing is finally losing the weight I put on since getting married. Our feet suffer when we carry excess pounds for years and years.
 

packrat

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I will look for the liniment, thanks MZ!

Will have to do some checking to see where the Dansko clogs can be found around here that I'd be able to try on w/out having to drive a couple hours. One of the pitfalls of bumpkinville.
 

movie zombie

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well, I tried dansko shoes and they KILLED me....but they were not the XP........

my podiatrist says I did the right thing for both the plantar and my now osteoarthritic bgt toe when I went to the stiff sole.
sketchers no longer makes the shoe type that worked for me but fitflop has it. not good for winter, though.

now that I have the plantars under control I find that Clark's work good for me.

I am curious about those dansko XP shoes, too........
but if i'm going to buy them it would have to be from Nordstrom's as I can take them back easily if they don't work out.


eta: norstroms has them. there is a "pro XP" and a "professional XP"....is there a difference?
also, it might have been the bunion that made the danskos unbearable and in combo with the plantar.
am definitely going to try the xp on......
 

pearlsngems

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Re: the Dankso clogs, Pro XP and Professional XP are the same thing. The memory foam makes all the difference for me- their regular clogs just plain hurt my feet.

I got my first pair at Nordstrom ($149 -- "ouch" for wallet but "aahhhh for feet) and my second pair on sale ($99) at The Walking Company. I did have to ask them to bring out a second pair of the same size to find the ones that felt right on my feet. You can even take the right shoe of the first pair and the left shoe of the second pair, if that's what fits best. The sales people are aware of the irregularity in fit of Dansko clogs, and are very accommodating.

I got the Chambray Lace Nubuck for my first pair and the Pecan Lace Nubuck for my second. You do need to be able to swap out shoes, if only to let them dry properly. I sprayed the Nubuck too make them water repellant but soon realized that made them trap moisture inside the shoe, so when that wore off in a few weeks, I didn't reapply.
 

lyra

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How long does it take to tell if they'll (Dansko Pro XP) work for you? Is it immediate in the store, or do you have to wear them for a significant amount of time? They are $170CAD for me. There is one store where I can try them on, but if the only thing making them comfortable is the memory foam insole, then I already know that's not enough for me. :(sad I have arthritis, Achilles tendinitis, and psoriatic arthritis. At this very moment, nothing is working for me at all.
 

pearlsngems

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My feet felt better right away. I was immediately able to fold up my cane, stick it back into my tote, and just walk without it. The pain wasn't gone but it was so much better that buying the shoes on the spot was a no-brainer for me. I realize everyone's feet are different and these may not work for you, but if they do, you should know it right away.

I have had other problems with my feet and suspect there is some arthritis in there. Wouldn't be surprising at my age (58). I was treated for gout in the lateral metatarsal area of my right foot 6 years ago but am now convinced it was not gout, just a sprain. Now and then it aches so I think I developed a bit of traumatic arthritis after the sprain. The head of my 3rd metatarsal on my right foot is also tender, and the regular Dansko clogs hurt in that spot, but no problem with the memory foam.

The memory foam is a thin, dense layer. Surprising how much difference it makes.

The same day I tried and bought my first pair of Dansko XP I also tried on Fit Flops, but those didn't help me at all as they allowed my Plantar Fascia to stretch. Same goes for Crocs.
 

pearlsngems

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lyra, just a thought: If you can try them on without having to go a long distance to do it, it may be worth your while. If they don't work, nothing was lost but a bit of your time.

I had gotten to where nothing was working for me, too, and I had begun avoiding going places and doing things that weren't really necessary. I put on weight from the reduced mobility. It was sheer agony visiting colleges with our daughter and taking the tours. I just wish I'd had the clogs earlier.

If you have rheumatoid arthritis, though, you may need specialty shoes molded for your feet.
 

packrat

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I like something that pushes up against my arch. I don't know if it's supposed to be that way for PF or not but I like that feeling. Some of the inserts for PF barely have any arch it looks like-I like it high. Am hoping Younkers has the Dansko XP to try on or one of the two shoe stores.
 

pearlsngems

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packrat, I would say it should be that way. Anything that pushes up against your arch prevents the pf from being stretched longitudually when you bear weight on the foot, and the stretch is what causes the pain and continued irritation that makes the spur grow.
 

packrat

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Perfect, thanks! When I'm looking online at the inserts I always look at the side view to see how far up the arch goes, so I'll keep on that way. Funny, bc he inserts I got from the podiatrist have like, nothing, compared to my orthaheel flip flops.
 

lyra

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Okay, I went to the store and tried the XP's on. They offer rigid support. I can definitely feel it in my high instep. But it does take the pressure off my heel a bit, which I wasn't expecting. It seems counter-intuitive to have to go for a firm support, but the salespeople explained it to me and it makes sense. Soft gel or foam inserts do not help.

I am a street size 8, with wider feet. I tried on the size below and the size above and it was obvious that they got the size right the first time. When you first put them on it feels like you might walk right out of them, but you don't. You learn to walk with them, which I assume relieves strain on certain parts, for sure the heel for me, since my problem is on the outside of my heel. I am desperate though. They aren't fabulous looking, but I don't care. If they work long term, I'll keep buying them. I have to wait a week to get them because the colour I wanted wasn't in stock. Then I have a period where I can wear them at home and see how they do, or if the colour I chose fits differently or something, I can go with the plain black that I tried on. So we'll see how they work.
 

pearlsngems

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lyra, that's great!

It does seem counter-intuitive that increased pressure would help the heel, but here is why: when we walk without arch supports, we bear weight on the prominent parts of our feet-- the heel, the outer edge of the foot, the ball of the foot (which is the 1st metatarsal head) along with the other four metatarsal heads, and the toes. If you have a high arch (not a huge arch, LOL-- I really must proofread before hitting "submit") and take your footprint, you can see that there is no weight borne by the arch on the medial side (the inside). (Flat-footed people do bear weight on that part, however.)

Weh you wear an arch support that fills up the arch area, you are adding the arch as a weight-bearing surface. This reduces the per cent of your weight that is borne by your heel and the other prominent parts. It reduces the load on the heel.

This total-contact principle is actually behind the molded inner soles that are made for people with insensitive feet (people with diabetes and Hansen's disease, a.k.a leprosy.) I actually worked with Hansen's patients in Africa years ago and attended workshops on this. The work was pioneered by Dr. Paul Brand in India.
 

pearlsngems

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Oh, and the appearance-- funny, I thought they were a bit homely too, but I get compliments on them all the time.

Be careful until you are used to them. You can twist your ankle if not careful.
 

momhappy

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My sister has severe PF from her last pregnancy. She has to be in a boot 24hrs a day for 6 months - she's only 8 weeks in and miserable. It's so hard for her to get things done around the house in that boot. Sorry you're dealing with this packrat:(
 

lyra

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pearlsngems|1412020228|3758760 said:
Oh, and the appearance-- funny, I thought they were a bit homely too, but I get compliments on them all the time.

Be careful until you are used to them. You can twist your ankle if not careful.

Haha, yes, I will be careful. I can't walk fast in them for sure. I imagine over time it becomes a learned thing though. Thanks for your insight. That's pretty much what I was told by the salespeople too. At this point in time, walking at all is getting very hard again. I also have diabetes, forgot to mention that, so that's why I'm willing to spend money for good shoes. I get a cortisone shot in my heel, but it only lasts about 3 months, then it's back to square one with management. It is only in one foot right now, the Achilles problem, but it's common to have it in both. I wouldn't be walking at all if that happened! I really hope these shoes help. I wish I could just wear whatever I wanted. It all seemed to happen so quickly, and all my shoe choices just vanished.
 

pearlsngems

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I had to get rid of all my other shoes! I sympathise.

I only wish these came in tall boots-- last winter when I had to pull on snow boots to shovel, my feet ached when I came back inside. I'm going to have to put the Sof Sole inserts into my snow boots this year, but I don't think they will offer quite enough support.

Since you have diabetes, you will need to choose your socks carefully, once you have your shoes. You don't want them to be slippery or you will find yourself gripping the clogs a lot with your toes, which could create pressure spots on the backs of your toes if you are at all prone to having hammer toes. Also you don't want socks that bind your circulation on your lower leg.
 

lyra

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I wear one kind of sock too, lol. They are diabetic friendly. They're called "All Day Socks". But I was thinking I might try others if necessary for the same reasons you stated. I never wear tall socks though.

I also wish they made boots! Or at least a really good winter tread.
 

pearlsngems

Ideal_Rock
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Well, I just used this link to make the suggestion: http://dansko.com/Contact Us/

Can't hurt!

Meanwhile, one thing I noticed this past winter and spring was that the clogs, being higher off the ground than my old runners were, actually keep my feet dry pretty well.
 
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