Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diamonds

[lucida]

Hello all,

I am interested in buying an investment grade diamond. I am having trouble deciding between two very similar diamonds with a few differences. One of my main concerns is for me to get an awesome deal (below wholesale) and also for it to shine from the other side of the room . The shine and sparkle is mainly due to the cut, so I decided to look into Hearts & Arrows. Can someone please look into the following 2 diamonds and tell me which one is a better deal and better diamond? The cuts are rated differently: One is Ideal and the other is Ideal Plus, with both being Hearts & Arrows on the certificate. The Comments for one states "Hearts & Arrows", while the Comments for the other states Inscribed:87378, so I'm not sure what the difference here will be. The price difference is $500, which one is the better diamond and the better deal???? Also is this a good deal or could I get something better elsewhere?

I'd appreciate any professional opinions as I'm not in the jewelry field, but want a diamond that's on fire.
Please advise.

1) The following is off of the EGL report and the price is $12,500:

Cut (Shape and Style)
ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat Weight
2.39 CT
Clarity Grade
SI2
Color Grade
I
Cut Grade
IDEAL PLUS
Proportions
Measurements
8.67 x 8.62 x 5.38 mm
Table
53%
Depth
62.3%
Crown Height
16.7%
Crown Angle
35.3°
Pavilion Depth
43.5%
Pavilion Angle
41.1°
Girdle
VERY THIN TO MEDIUM
Culet
VERY SMALL
Observations
Finish

Polish
VERY GOOD
Symmetry
VERY GOOD
Fluorescence
NONE
Comments

HEARTS & ARROWS

2) Price is $12,000
Cut (Shape and Style)
ROUND BRILLIANT
Carat Weight
2.20 CT
Clarity Grade
SI2
Color Grade
G
Cut Grade
IDEAL
Proportions
Measurements
8.39 x 8.26 x 5.13 mm
Table
60%
Depth
61.6%
Crown Height
13.8%
Crown Angle
34°
Pavilion Depth
43.6%
Pavilion Angle
41.2°
Girdle
THIN TO MEDIUM FACETED
Culet
Observations
Finish

Polish
VERY GOOD
Symmetry
VERY GOOD
Comments

Inscribed:87378

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

No it they are not good deals. Stick to GIA or AGS only.

EGL stones are discounted for a reason. They are not worth the paper that is being sold to you and jewelers are being sued over it. Also EGL was banned from Rap net so dealers are trying to push their EGL stock so they can get off the sinking ship.

A very clear discussion of the factors to consider if you are thinking about buying an EGL graded diamond:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]

Law suits about EGL stones! [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]

Rapnet bans EGL: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

Also EGL's "Hearts and arrows" stones do not have ideal light return. And light return is what matters. Hearts and arrows is just patterning.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

Neither of these stones is anything someone would consider 'investor grade.'

You would have to have extensive diamond knowledge to select a stone like this, and even then, it is not necessarily the best investment to get involved in. You are not going to game the system here.

Either put a few years into researching diamonds, or look at an alternate investment. Even folks with extensive diamond knowledge will caution you when considering an 'investment' in diamonds. Simply not practical, at the consumer level.

Put your money into an indexed fund instead and get some actual returns!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

You aren't getting a 2+ carat diamond for 12k from a reputable lab.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6278940-1.84-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=6278940&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6257832-2.01-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6257832&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

This is what your budget buys you. Put on hold ask for idealscope image and ask if the stone is over blue.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

Investor grade diamonds are GIA or AGS D FL and are kept in a safe. You have no clue what you are doing.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6268982-0.91-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-IF-Clarity.aspx?sku=6268982&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com This is what investment grade.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

Thank you everyone for your input. For investment piece, I also meant for me to wear every day but I want an incredible diamond with immense shine. So I guess I will rule out these two and stay away from EGL. My price range can afford me smaller GIA certified diamond. Basically as a rule of thumb, no matter what diamond I look at, for the shine, I need to plug in the numbers in this Holloway cut advisor and if the result is less than 2, it will be investment grade I did try the Holloway cut advisor tool (which was VERY COOL) and had these results (nearly identical) 3.7 and 3.8.

I'll continue my quest then. Thank you all for your honesty and professional advice.

1) I/SI2 2.39 ct diamond:
Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

Total Visual Performance 3.7 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

2) 2.20 ct G/SI2 Diamond
actor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

You need an idealscope image.

HCA is a rejection tool. For use with GIA Ex cut stones.

Idealscope is the selection tool.

Okay?

Alternately you can get an AGS 0 diamond.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

I have another question regarding the light return HCA: I found a 1.51ct GIA F color , Internally flawless, Excellent polish, excellent symmetry, flourescence faint, cut grade is excellent. I plugged in all of the values into the HCA thinking that it was supposed to have a result of less than 2, however this is the result:
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Excellent

Total Visual Performance 3.5 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

It was a 3.5 as opposed to a 3.7 with the hearts and arrows. Not too much of a difference given the fact that you stated that it has to be less than 2 to be considered investment grade or very good. So this is my dilemma now that even a GIA with all these excellent attributes will shine almost as well as the EGL diamond, if I understand this correctiy.

 

[heididdl]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

Thank you everyone for your input. For investment piece, I also meant for me to wear every day but I want an incredible diamond with immense shine. So I guess I will rule out these two and stay away from EGL. My price range can afford me smaller GIA certified diamond. Basically as a rule of thumb, no matter what diamond I look at, for the shine, I need to plug in the numbers in this Holloway cut advisor and if the result is less than 2, it will be investment grade I did try the Holloway cut advisor tool (which was VERY COOL) and had these results (nearly identical) 3.7 and 3.8.

I'll continue my quest then. Thank you all for your honesty and professional advice.

1) I/SI2 2.39 ct diamond:
Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

Total Visual Performance 3.7 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

2) 2.20 ct G/SI2 Diamond
actor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

There is really no such animal as an investment quality diamond. The advice you have received is clear . Choose an ideal cut diamond graded by AGS (o) or GIA 3x with ideal specs. Go for the stats (cut is kind) and the best color and clarity you can afford within the size you are seeking for your budget. That will be your personal investment. Diamonds rarely if ever resell for what you paid. Trust this sight .....We've all been there and back.

 

[lucida]

Re: Need help in deciding between 2 EGL Hearts & Arrows Diam

You're right Heidi. It's what I can afford and it's all relative to what you have - of course everyone would want the best quality out there but you have to have deep pockets for those. Thanks for your comment