Good price?

[Franky777]

I have a friend of mine that is a Jeweler and has a AGL Certified princess cut 2.0 CT I will get the whole specks tomorrow but said is very very good, VS2 (H) color and the price is $7800 I have gone to retail stores and know they go for way more and wholesales are about the same. I just wanted a 3 party opinion? Thanks

 

[Gypsy]

Get the rest of the information. Actually ask the jeweler for a scanned image of the lab report. That's best. Then we'll tell you.
OK.

AGL alone is not enough. It needs to have a light performance rating and that rating needs to be 1 or 0.

 

[Franky777]

Ok I got all my facts

E.G.L
Laboratory Report
Certificate No: EGL 3405503323
Date: August 10, 2014

weight: 2.00 Cts.
Shape and Cut: Princess
Measurements: 7.26 -7.02 X 4.71 mm.

Proportions
Total Depth: 67.1 %
Table width: 78 %
crown Height: 6%
Pavilion Depth 58 %
Girdle Thickness: medium, Polished

Finish
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: None

Clarity Grade: VS2
Graining: Nil
Color: H
Fluorescence: None

 

[Gypsy]

OK. So. No. Not a good deal.
Why?

It is an EGL stone. EGL not a good reliable lab. And any vendor you tells you other so is one to avoid.

Discussion of reliability of EGL lab reports:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
Lawsuits over EGL lab reports:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]
Rapnet banns EGL:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]


It is likely this vendor is seeking to unload this stone on you. Why? Because it won't be accurately graded. It won't be an H VS2. And it is not worth even the money you are spending on it. And most vendors that were carrying ELG are leaving EGL like rats from a sinking ship.

Also if a vendor tries to tell you... oh, they are just one or two grades off GIA. They are lying. They are not reliably any set number of grades off. We've had diamonds come back as many as 5-7 color grades off.

And finally, if this stone was well cut and worth buying, it would have been sent to GIA.

It is not going to be a well cut stone. And cut is king. More on that in a minute.

 

[Gypsy]

Numbers tell you nothing about a princess. You need pictures and an ASET if you want to buy online. And an ASET even in person.

Or you can get an AGS0 princess. GIA does not grade their princesses for performance. Only AGS does. And if those diamonds are graded by any lab other than GIA or AGS you shouldn't be considering them at all. Any jeweler that is trying to sell you an EGL stone is NOT your friend.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good princess is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds.

Also, any wholesaler who is selling to you is lying. They are a retailer. And frankly most of these vendors tend to be extremely good at parting the ignorant from their funds for sub-par goods.

 

[Gypsy]

ALso the reason you are seeing the pricing discrepancy is that EGL stones are DEEPLY discounted because of the crappy lab report and the fact that the best diamonds do not get sent there.

Most of the other diamonds you are looking at are probably GIA or AGS graded. That's what you want. And yes, it will cost more. And yes it is worth it. If you budget is 7K ish you will not get a 2 carat stone from GIA or AGS that is worth buying for that budget. So you will have to adjust your expectations and get a smaller stone. That's fine.

You want a well cut stone and a reliably graded stone, even if it is smaller. Not a dead hunk of carbon that does not shine away from jeweler's lights.

Also, most 'friend' jewelers we get here (and we get several a week) usually end up with the friend 'values' being rip offs. Like this EGL story. Most don't work out. I've been on these boards 9 years. I've had exactly TWO friend jeweler stories actually work out to be good deals.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Franky,
The friend who is offering you this diamond is either not knowledgeable about diamonds, or they are not being truthful with you.
The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
ANY two carat diamond being offered for $7k by a legit seller ( so we can rule out stolen diamonds) will be nowhere near H VS2.
We have seen cases of stones graded H color by EGL INternational that were subesquently graded N by GIA. Yup. N.

Most likely that's the case with whatever it is you're looking at.
Even if the diamond is actually worth $7k, the BS that's being pushed with it devalue the deal terribly IMO

 

[Texas Leaguer]

OK. So. No. Not a good deal.
Why?

It is an EGL stone. EGL not a good reliable lab. And any vendor you tells you other so is one to avoid.

Discussion of reliability of EGL lab reports:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
Lawsuits over EGL lab reports:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/been-wondering-when-this-would-happen-lawsuit-over-grading.204318/[/URL]
Rapnet banns EGL:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]


It is likely this vendor is seeking to unload this stone on you. Why? Because it won't be accurately graded. It won't be an H VS2. And it is not worth even the money you are spending on it. And most vendors that were carrying ELG are leaving EGL like rats from a sinking ship.

Also if a vendor tries to tell you... oh, they are just one or two grades off GIA. They are lying. They are not reliably any set number of grades off. We've had diamonds come back as many as 5-7 color grades off.

And finally, if this stone was well cut and worth buying, it would have been sent to GIA.

It is not going to be a well cut stone. And cut is king. More on that in a minute.

I will just add to what Gypsy says about why this friend jeweler might be "seeking to unload this stone on you" and it is related to the third link she posted for your information (and I hope you will read it). The fact that EGL diamonds can no longer be listed on the trading network means that a prime channel for selling these diamonds is about to vanish overnight. That will leave many dealers scrambling to liquidate these diamonds. The faster they do it, the better off they will be. Therefore, expect alot more "friend jewelers" to come out of the woodwork making deals that people cannot refuse - but probably should!

 

[Franky777]

Yea I never said that was budget, I was only talking about it he is a friend of my family but not the family jeweler we just where talking about it cause im in the market and wanted a 3 party thought on it.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Good for you that you are doing your due diligence. Many people just buy into "the deal" without exploring. You will find many people here ready to help you with advice and suggestions. If you take your time and continue to explore, you will likely end up with a very good outcome.

 

[Franky777]

Good to know just to stick with GIA. I know GIA will push me in 10k and up for a 2.0 will see I'll re post on a GIA and you guys can tell me. like I said this guy I talked with was not my first choice I just didnt have any know how about EGL

 

[Texas Leaguer]

GIA is a good bet for accurate color and clarity but it won't tell you enough about cut quality and light performance. You will find the mantra here is "cut is king". That is where all the magic comes from.

If you are interested in learning more about cutting and light performance in princess cuts, you might find this article helpful:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratories-diamond-cut-grading-princess-cut

As you will learn, that stone you posted does not have specs that would translate into good light performance.

 

[luvdajules]

check out Whiteflash, they have ASET information and AGS light performance info. Maybe you can find a sparkler one in the 1.5 to 1.7 ct range.

 

[Gypsy]

Please read this again. And click on the links. This is what you need. GIA is not enough.

Numbers tell you nothing about a princess. You need pictures and an ASET if you want to buy online. And an ASET even in person.

Or you can get an AGS0 princess. GIA does not grade their princesses for performance. Only AGS does. And if those diamonds are graded by any lab other than GIA or AGS you shouldn't be considering them at all. Any jeweler that is trying to sell you an EGL stone is NOT your friend.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king. With fancies though (anything other than a round brilliant), that is a little complicated. But no other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.

There really is no other way to determine if you have a good princess is to see images of the stones, and then you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.

That's what an ASET image does. http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance Please read.
And ASET shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return That is why you won't see us recommending vendors like Blue Nile, as they do not provide images or ASET images for their diamonds. James Allen and Good Old Gold do this. So do Brian Gavin and Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds.

Also, any wholesaler who is selling to you is lying. They are a retailer. And frankly most of these vendors tend to be extremely good at parting the ignorant from their funds for sub-par goods.

Here is what I mean. Compare these two:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-295886
G color
VS2
Depth 76.3
Table 69
Ratio: 1.01
Excellent polish
Good Symmetry
Girdle Medium

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-283672
G color
VS2 clarity
Depth 76.2
Table 69.9
Ratio: 1.02
Very good polish
Very good symmetry
Girdle Thin to Slightly thick

Numbers are VERY close right? And the first one has a better girdle. And while the symmetry on the first one is only good, that's not a disqualifier with princeses.

Now look at the pictures. The first one is a VERY dark stone, and frankly a dog as far as princesses go. Second one is an AGS0 with ideal light return and is very bright, with just enough patterning to provide contrast.

In summary. YOU NEED AN ASET AND IMAGES.

 

[cflutist]

Here's one princess that is more money, but is a 1.09 Ct. G VVS1 - Crafted By Infinity - Superideal Princess
EX Polish, EX Symmetry, Ideal light performance,
on Wink's website (High Performance diamonds):

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=112

 

[Gypsy]

Here's a lovely stone for you.

I si1 and eyeclean. 1.7 carats. And an AGS0 (light performance) stone. James Allen can get you an ASET image.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.73-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-290836 Right at 10k.

It's a very lovely stone.

Other option. Get an ASET.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.71-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-250606

 

[Rockdiamond]

Franky- if at all possible please make sure to check out "normal" well cut princess cuts as well as Ideal stones.
There are many different interpretations of what the best light performance is for a princess cut.
By all means if you find you love the Ideal cut stones ( many people do), they are worth the premium.
But if you like non ideal stones better ( many people also do), you may save a bit of money and get a larger stone.

 

[WinkHPD]

Franky,

You need to find a local jeweler who will work with you, for a fee, to allow you to bring in one or two of the diamonds that you think you might like and see them side by side with your own eyes. (If you have a good local appraiser, this works well too.)

With princess cuts it is extremely difficult to judge them by the paper.

Wink

 

[Gypsy]

Where are you located?
We may be able to recommend jewelers close to you to visit.