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Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that great?

nukezero

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
63
Hi Guys

I purchased a diamond/setting from a very respected/well-known vendor on here. I won't say who it is because that's not the point. The point was, the CAD images that they sent doesn't appear to look as good or even reflect exactly what I had described and provided to them.

The setting that I wanted them to replicate is from a local CA jeweler called Nathan Alan. I sent them some pictures from their manufacturer website and also sent them a picture with the setting on my girlfriend's exact fingers.

They sent back the CAD images this week and I took a look at them, and they are not exactly identical. The shape is there, but every other detail is not identical. For example, I can see that the diamond surface does not sit flush with the 4 pront tips. The actual nathan alan one shows it protrudes higher.

The second thing that bothers me the most is the Pave setting. Somehow on the CAD images, the pave's look too small, exposing too much metal and showing too much "circle-ness". The actual images from Nathan Alan and also real-life images so that there appears to be "triangular" dips for each pave setting. It's hard to describe what I'm talking about.

Third, even more obvious is the "basket" of the setting. The shape of each pave diamond and just the general size of the band, is out of proportion. It shows too much metal and makes the pave diamonds look dinky.

At this point, I'm at a loss because the savings are great if I go with their replica. Saving me like 30% of cost, but the outcome may not be good. However, it still just doesn't look like the real deal.

Most importantly, when viewed from the side/profile, there should be these "triangular" cuts of the pave stones visible and the entire basket should look like it is covered with pave diamonds. The CAD images just look like somebody threw them on quickly.

Please let me know your thoughts. The purpose of this post is not to bash the vendor as this is not a vendor problem. This problem is whether or not I should have confidence that the setting should come out 95% close to what I want. Right now, I'm just feeling it is 75% close... Perhaps this is my problem for trying to replicate something... ???

Do let me know.
Thanks, more pictures below in the next post with the actual one I want.

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nukezero

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
63
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Here's what it is supposed to be. The exact setting on her hand at the store. Plus pictures from the manufacturer.

Please let me know your thoughts.

actual.jpg

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Dee*Jay

Super_Ideal_Rock
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15,104
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Have you seen any examples of the vendor's real life pave work? CADs and the end product often look a bit different (although I do see everything you are saying here) but I wonder if the real pave work will resemble the sample ring more closely? Also, I'm not sure what the difference in price is (you say 30%) but it might be time to reconsider whether it's worth the extra $ to you to get exactly what you want. I know it's a blow to the wallet but if you (and your FI) are going to be disappointed for a long time over going with the alternate vendor then maybe think about whether you can swing the extra cost.
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 14, 2007
Messages
19,456
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

What DeeJay said. Also, keep in mind that you are comparing two computer generated images, produced by two different computer programs. CADs are helpful, but they aren't set in stone, nor are they perfect or exactly what you will see in real life once the metalwork is complete. Have you talked to your vendor about your concerns? Typically when doing CAD projects, a revision or two is normal.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 23, 2012
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20,044
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

So far just looking at the profile, as we have two images very similar to compair

The original has a more concave look to the shank, where the current cad just has one curve up to the prongs. The inspiration cads have a second curve out word at the tip.

The basket work is lower in the inspiration than the cad. The cad has the diamond metal work right at the girdle where the inspiration has it half way between the girdle and the base of the shank

uploadfromtaptalk1410893441504.jpg
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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20,044
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

The other things just design wise I see is that the spit in the cad version goes lower than the original

I point these things out in case you want the DESIGN aspects to be more in tune with the original you could just go back, point these things out, and get that part fixed

As for your other issue. It's a matter of what type of pave the jeweler is using. Like others have said. Ask him to provide specific examples of what the pave will look like in the end. It could very well be the cads don't render the pave in a way that accurately reflects the finish product. Either way, cads are meant for revision, otherwise, they would just make it rather than give you time to critique.

I'd go back to the vendor and ask for photos and to make whatever necessary esthetic changes you feel would get it closer to your vision.

uploadfromtaptalk1410893924904.jpg
 

nukezero

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
63
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Dee*Jay said:
Have you seen any examples of the vendor's real life pave work? CADs and the end product often look a bit different (although I do see everything you are saying here) but I wonder if the real pave work will resemble the sample ring more closely? Also, I'm not sure what the difference in price is (you say 30%) but it might be time to reconsider whether it's worth the extra $ to you to get exactly what you want. I know it's a blow to the wallet but if you (and your FI) are going to be disappointed for a long time over going with the alternate vendor then maybe think about whether you can swing the extra cost.

No I have not. The vendor is 3000 miles away from me. I am certainly having second thoughts, you're right.


FrekeChild said:
What DeeJay said. Also, keep in mind that you are comparing two computer generated images, produced by two different computer programs. CADs are helpful, but they aren't set in stone, nor are they perfect or exactly what you will see in real life once the metalwork is complete. Have you talked to your vendor about your concerns? Typically when doing CAD projects, a revision or two is normal.

I completely understand. But the differences are too large for me to ignore. Especially, when I have a real life picture of the actual setting/diamond on my girlfriend's exact fingers.

Niel said:
So far just looking at the profile, as we have two images very similar to compair

The original has a more concave look to the shank, where the current cad just has one curve up to the prongs. The inspiration cads have a second curve out word at the tip.

The basket work is lower in the inspiration than the cad. The cad has the diamond metal work right at the girdle where the inspiration has it half way between the girdle and the base of the shank

Yes, this was also my concern. The basket just doesn't look right. There's too much metal exposed and I didn't even know you caught that difference! I did catch that the diamond sat lower in the CAD while the actual diamond in Nathan Alan sits higher. Yes, the Nathan Alan one's have a more prominent curve at the prongs. We noticed this at the store and that's what attracted my girlfriend's attention to it.

Also, we purposely request that this not be a eternity band, so only 3/4 way for the pave. This is expected, but still, something STILL feels odd.

The difference between going with the REAL deal from nathan alan versus this replica is approx. $2500. It is a chunk of more money. :wall:
 

pandabee

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
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2,910
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Did the vendor specify what type of pave was to be used? It's possible that the CAD imaging cannot accurately display the type of pave that will eventually be used. I do like that the vendor did not go with the 3 sided pave that is on the original. This will allow her to safely be able to wear a wedding band next to the engagement ring without having diamonds scratch the wedding band.
 

nukezero

Rough_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

pandabee said:
Did the vendor specify what type of pave was to be used? It's possible that the CAD imaging cannot accurately display the type of pave that will eventually be used. I do like that the vendor did not go with the 3 sided pave that is on the original. This will allow her to safely be able to wear a wedding band next to the engagement ring without having diamonds scratch the wedding band.

Hi, i will ask them. Maybe that's what it is! It's not a three sided pave stone, it's one sided! That's why it looks so off?

But i had told them i wanted exact replica, minus the eternity.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

I went to their website. It is not three sided pave. I think its just the smaller photos make it seem like that

uploadfromtaptalk1410895839392.jpg
 

nukezero

Rough_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

I have contacted to ensure that the design will be closer to the real deal. It's starting to worry me but at the same time, they tell me the CADs aren't going to look like the final pieces. The reason being is that the "extra" metal that I'm seeing is because the jeweler needs the extra metal to work with to cut it needed to fit the stones.

My concern is that, once I "approve" the CAD images, then it goes off to being built - and there are no refunds - but the issue is that, I'm approving a CAD image, that supposedly isn't the "final" product - but just a near-close example of what it would look like? That's a lot of risk I'm still taking in a sense no?

OH man, I just want to :wall: as I don't know what to do.

My other option is to go with a smaller diamond to cover the difference of paying for buying the real setting from Nathan Alan.

Then again, this reputable jeweler is telling me not to worry, it will really come out just like the final product.
 

EvangelineG

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 25, 2014
Messages
560
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Did you send the jeweler the photos and notes that Niel did for you? That's what I would do. You don't need to approve the CAD until you are feeling sure about the design. However, the CAD will always look bulkier than the final product, so there is some trust involved.

I would also ask the jeweler what happens if you aren't happy with the finished ring? Make sure you are fully aware of their policies in that eventuality, and you will likely feel better when it is time to approve the CAD and give them the go ahead.
 

ericad

Ideal_Rock
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2,033
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

With a custom piece, a few revisions to the CAD's are to be expected. Remember, you've seen the original in person and have probably spent a lot of time gazing at it, studying it, memorizing the details (though Nathan Alan would probably not appreciate his design being copied). And, though I don't know who the jeweler is, often times the person you're dealing with isn't the actual person making the CAD, so sometimes things get lost in communication, especially subtle nuances like the exact curvature of the prong struts, or the length of the split in the shank.

CAD's are drafts, and a draft isn't final until you say it is. And CAD's are terrible at depicting pave, btw. CAD's are an illustration, but are not to be taken as literal depictions of the finished piece. There is some element of faith required for a custom piece, which is where jeweler selection and trust play the biggest part.

Niel had lots of great feedback when it comes to comparing the original setting to the rendering. Just because this jeweler didn't nail the CAD on the first try isn't a reason to fret or worry about the project or his/her ability to copy the design you love - simply go back with specific revisions and see how you like v2.

As to the quality of the work and pave, unless you specify who the jeweler is, PS'ers can't really advise you on where to set your expectations. Maybe the jeweler you chose is very masterful at setting pave, or maybe not. I think it would be ideal if you gave forth all info so that the helpful people here can give you the best possible advise.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

nukezero|1410901224|3752091 said:
I have contacted to ensure that the design will be closer to the real deal. It's starting to worry me but at the same time, they tell me the CADs aren't going to look like the final pieces. The reason being is that the "extra" metal that I'm seeing is because the jeweler needs the extra metal to work with to cut it needed to fit the stones.

My concern is that, once I "approve" the CAD images, then it goes off to being built - and there are no refunds - but the issue is that, I'm approving a CAD image, that supposedly isn't the "final" product - but just a near-close example of what it would look like? That's a lot of risk I'm still taking in a sense no?

OH man, I just want to :wall: as I don't know what to do.

My other option is to go with a smaller diamond to cover the difference of paying for buying the real setting from Nathan Alan.

Then again, this reputable jeweler is telling me not to worry, it will really come out just like the final product.

This right here is the heart of the problem.

It is unethical to ask a jeweller - any jeweller - to clone another designer's work, and tremendously unethical for the jeweller to agree to such a request :nono: For any reason (including to spare the wallet the 30% brand premium).
There is also the fact that these sorts of custom endeavours rarely end well, because few benches have exactly the same aesthetic taste - different benches will interpret details differently, which results in a slightly different overall "look and feel".

My VERY strong recommendation: pony up for the "real deal".
 

ericad

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

PS - it's totally normal for a CAD to show prongs that extend past the stone. This doesn't mean that's how the finished piece will be set. They render it that way to give the jeweler more metal to work with for setting the stone (because the CAD file is what they use to cast the metal). It's very possible that the finished piece will have the diamond sitting either at the top of the prongs (so spaced more like the original with regards to the cross bar) and it's also possible that the diamond will be set low, like in the CAD, with the extra metal removed. You'd want to clarify this with the jeweler.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Is the Nathan Allan ring cast or is it hand forged? I think it takes a lot of patience to do custom with all the revisions and trying
things and removing things. Also there is some rule that most jewellers will not make an exact replica due to copyright.
 

nukezero

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
63
Re: Need help! The setting CAD doesn't seem to look that gr

Hi Everyone

Thanks for the responses - Yes I have taken Neil's design concerns into consideration and spoken with the vendor and they will correct them for V2 and send it over again. I did not know it was unethical to "replicate" another designer's design, although it makes sense that, that would be the case. It's just that, every store I went to, every jeweler, even the reknowned one's on the internet say "we can make ANYTHING you want" ... like it is legal and proud. So I thought, well if I can save a wad of cash, then why not.

Of course, now I'm seeing that, going custom and replication requires somewhat of a leap of faith... and these CAD images depicting the pave is quite scary looking. The vendor has told me that all pave stones are the same it's just the way they will be "finished". Mine will be finished in the way like the original with these "v-cuts" I termed.

As for the splits, I'm actually okay with it being split slightly wider. What I was not okay with, was just the gaps between the stones, and also the gap between the bands when viewed from the side profile. Those concerns were mitigated when I am told it won't have that once the pave stones are set, and extra metal are there for the jeweler to cut and work with.

The only major correction seems to be lower the bar on the basket and adjusting the height of the center stone over the prong.

I guess I'll wait until revision 2.
 
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