The rough for my Octavia (pics)...

[pyramid]

Love this thread. I love watching the great minds in action. I love trying to understand it all, which I think I do come to a bit of
an understanding each time although I may have to read it like 3 times. Newbies out there who think they don't understand should persevere a bit because it is very interesting. Can't wait for Dancingfire to get his diamond. Don't think I could go through this not
knowing what the carat weight is and when I am getting it Got to be one of the best threads on Pricescope. This is like the good old days threads.

 

[OoohShiny]

Hi Sergey,

I am attaching a srn vs. real meeting point image of a different Octavia (Not DF's, sorry for the quick threadjack)

Its not the best image but as close as I could get. You can clearly see the small misalignment on three out of four corners of that girdle facet on the srn.

That amount of difference between the corners is mindboggling small

It would frustrate me that the machines were not as accurate as they need to be, how do you cut when the tolerances may ruin your best intentions?!

 

[pyramid]

I think this is the skill required we are seeing from Yoram here to receive an ideal symmetry grade and use the rough to its ultimate best, not a machine error?

 

[Serg]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Yoram, please publish photo from same direction. I want compare edge junctions from model with edge junctions from real diamond.
if we see significant difference then real slope angles would be different.

also I advice scan the diamond in 4 different positions ( rotate on +90 degree each time ) then compare slope angles for same facets

Hi Sergey,

I am attaching a srn vs. real meeting point image of a different Octavia (Not DF's, sorry for the quick threadjack)

Its not the best image but as close as I could get. You can clearly see the small misalignment on three out of four corners of that girdle facet on the srn.

Hi Yoram,

More important to check junctions between first and second layers .
a error in junctions strongly depends from difference in angle between facets. if the difference is less then the error is bigger

 

[diagem]

There will always be some variance in symmetry points/junctions between a 3D scan vs. real polished Diamond comparisons.
Scanners did advance "a bit" in the last 7 years since I started my attempts at 3D Diamond precision cutting but they are still far from giving us complete solutions.
As in all cases, we must tackle various technological margins of error limitations which are obvious to us cutters as well to tech companies.
The subject of this thread only touches the polished side of technology. In the rough planning & preparing side it's another world of technological limitations. 
I can though honestly say that with our continuos pursuit at cutting to the highest precision levels out there, we have researched and developed our own methods which  help us overcome many of the technological limitation we keep facing.
But then new ones arise...

We are in constant touch with Sarine's engineers and staff, we keep bugging them for solutions and thankfully they have been taking us seriously (for the last 7 years) and listened, thats how we become better and we thank them for this cooperation. Presently we collaborate with Sarine Technologies to help develop future solutions.

Ironically as it might sound..., the higher the 3D symmetry we achieve, the easier it gets for us to visibly notice our nano cutting faults on the Diamonds themselves...
But that is a story for another thread one day....

 

[Texas Leaguer]

There will always be some variance in symmetry points/junctions between a 3D scan vs. real polished Diamond comparisons.
Scanners did advance "a bit" in the last 7 years since I started my attempts at 3D Diamond precision cutting but they are still far from giving us complete solutions.
As in all cases, we must tackle various technological margins of error limitations which are obvious to us cutters as well to tech companies.
The subject of this thread only touches the polished side of technology. In the rough planning & preparing side it's another world of technological limitations. 
I can though honestly say that with our continuos pursuit at cutting to the highest precision levels out there, we have researched and developed our own methods which  help us overcome many of the technological limitation we keep facing.
But then new ones arise...

We are in constant touch with Sarine's engineers and staff, we keep bugging them for solutions and thankfully they have been taking us seriously (for the last 7 years) and listened, thats how we become better and we thank them for this cooperation. Presently we collaborate with Sarine Technologies to help develop future solutions.

Ironically as it might sound..., the higher the 3D symmetry we achieve, the easier it gets for us to visibly notice our nano cutting faults on the Diamonds themselves...
But that is a story for another thread one day....

May all your cutting faults be of the "nano" variety!

Seriously, it is really impressive to see you pushing the modern technological barriers of precision.

 

[OoohShiny]

There will always be some variance in symmetry points/junctions between a 3D scan vs. real polished Diamond comparisons.
Scanners did advance "a bit" in the last 7 years since I started my attempts at 3D Diamond precision cutting but they are still far from giving us complete solutions.
As in all cases, we must tackle various technological margins of error limitations which are obvious to us cutters as well to tech companies.
The subject of this thread only touches the polished side of technology. In the rough planning & preparing side it's another world of technological limitations. 
I can though honestly say that with our continuos pursuit at cutting to the highest precision levels out there, we have researched and developed our own methods which  help us overcome many of the technological limitation we keep facing.
But then new ones arise...

We are in constant touch with Sarine's engineers and staff, we keep bugging them for solutions and thankfully they have been taking us seriously (for the last 7 years) and listened, thats how we become better and we thank them for this cooperation. Presently we collaborate with Sarine Technologies to help develop future solutions.

Ironically as it might sound..., the higher the 3D symmetry we achieve, the easier it gets for us to visibly notice our nano cutting faults on the Diamonds themselves...
But that is a story for another thread one day....

Wow, that's a great insight into the intricacies of cutting. It's almost a case of chasing ever diminishing returns, although increased accuracy will only bring about better quality diamonds

It sounds like you really are at the cutting edge!


(I'll get my coat... )

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'd like to join the chorus who feel gifted to be allowed a glimpse into how you work your magic Yoram.
Thanks to Jon, DF, and all involved for giving us this inside view.

 

[diagem]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Here is a good macro image showing the polish obstacle caused by that particular natural facet plane...
BTW Sergey, even on this comparisons you can notice the similarities in facet junctions between this image and the srn. file.

 

[Dizzie]

Dear DF, Yoram et al

I just wanted to revitilize this thread and ask whether you would by now be comfortable posting further pictures.
There are quite a few member of communitity, I am sure, who are waiting impatiently for further "food for thought"

Thank you in advance

 

[diagem]

The Octavia was completed safely.
After DF gets it's information and visuals and at his permission I will gladly start posting some images of the cutting process.

 

[kenny]

Congratulations Yoram!

Has it been lab-graded yet?

DF, any progress on the setting decision?

 

[diagem]

Congratulations Yoram!

Has it been lab-graded yet?

DF, any progress on the setting decision?

Not yet, the Diamond will be submitted by GOG for grading.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The Octavia was completed safely.
After DF gets it's information and visuals and at his permission I will gladly start posting some images of the cutting process.

Yoram , please do!...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Congratulations Yoram!

Has it been lab-graded yet?

DF, any progress on the setting decision?

still trying to decide on which tension setting,and also depending on the color/clarity of the stone...

 

[diagem]

The Octavia was completed safely.
After DF gets it's information and visuals and at his permission I will gladly start posting some images of the cutting process.

Yoram , please do!...

Here is an image showing the starting process of what we all know as the blocking stage.
Blocking is a widely known word but I prefer the word "positioning" of the potential Octavia hidden within the rough Diamond.
As viewers can clearly notice a fine laser mark (left & right arrows) which marks the approximate shape (outline) position of the Octavia.
It is approximate because to reach the 3D precision level we wish to achieve, this laser mark is only a rough guide line as you can notice the space left between the Diamond material and the laser line.
The fine tuning of the cut arrives at a much later stage.

 

[diagem]

Here is a screen image from the Diamond face down on the scanner stage and an approximate 3D model of that position.
Viewers can easily notice some pre crown faceting (bottom on the stage), girdle faceting while again leaving some room between final position and current.
We can notice the pavilion has not been handled yet.

 

[diagem]

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Very exciting!!! I am just imagining my diamond in it's place, too!

 

[Roqsteady]

This is so cool! I love the talks of precision and architecture that go into the planning and cutting process.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Don't think it'll end up 8.5mm..

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Don't think it'll end up 8.5mm..

That would be huge, DF, for an Octavia or asscher. It will be over 8mm, right? I am sure they can tell you the exact measurements! Have you seen the pictures???

 

[cflutist]

Don't think it'll end up 8.5mm..

So 8.5mm after bruting, what was it after brillianteering?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Don't think it'll end up 8.5mm..

That would be huge, DF, for an Octavia or asscher. It will be over 8mm, right? I am sure they can tell you the exact measurements! Have you seen the pictures???

I don't think so, maybe more like 7.3mm?. I'm sure Yoram can answer that Q.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I just forgot the original projections!

 

[glimmercat]

This is amazing! I love being able to see the progress (extra neat that it is for an Octavia too)

 

[pyramid]

Love this thread. Now feeling impatient for DF to get his diamond.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Amazing! I can't wait for more

 

[kenny]

Thank you, but is there more?

 

[diagem]

Thank you, but is there more?