WWYD? Advice needed re: 9 year old son

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I love your kid. He's not upset, his mother is upset for him. To me, the fact that he keeps asking him(other kid) in a kids off-hand way
if he wants to warm-up with him, and the kid says hes going to wait for joey, tells me he is pretty well adjusted for his age. Mom, thats what kids do. You keep using the work "civil: as if that should even apply. You're just driving him to school. Your son will make new friends. He's a nice kid.

I would not allow anyone to poke my child in the eyes. Report that immediately. Thats a no-go.

When your son is chased off the court, let him say, there are no rules to say I must give up the court to you. However grade level may come in to school power struggles, which occur naturally.. I don't see it as bullying. Believe me if 8th graders want the court over the 5th grader, they'll get it. Thats the pecking order.

No eyes poking. Thats my line in the sand. Yennie, just drive the kids to school. If anything else happen you can change your plans,

Annette

 

[kenny]

Sorry you and your son are going through this Yennyfire.
I was bullied, and it sucked.
Sorry I have no expertise to contribute, just a hug.

I am very curious about something though.
I doubt a single one of these parents of bullies teach actually their kids, explicitly, to be bullies.
So what DO they teach the kids?
I assume everyone teaches their kids what they believe is the right way to be.
So, what messages/attitudes do these parents model or teach that manifests in bullying by the kid?

Or is bullying not the result of anything intentionally taught, but rather just a kids reaction to shitty/selfish/drunk/absent/abusive/uninvolved parenting?

 

[azstonie]

The parents bully their children, their friends, relatives, employees, strangers, you name it. Their children learn to relate to others in exactly that manner. It's sad, they think life is either dominate or be dominated. Will to power.

 

[yennyfire]

Hi,

I love your kid. He's not upset, his mother is upset for him. To me, the fact that he keeps asking him(other kid) in a kids off-hand way
if he wants to warm-up with him, and the kid says hes going to wait for joey, tells me he is pretty well adjusted for his age. Mom, thats what kids do. You keep using the work "civil: as if that should even apply. You're just driving him to school. Your son will make new friends. He's a nice kid.

I would not allow anyone to poke my child in the eyes. Report that immediately. Thats a no-go.

When your son is chased off the court, let him say, there are no rules to say I must give up the court to you. However grade level may come in to school power struggles, which occur naturally.. I don't see it as bullying. Believe me if 8th graders want the court over the 5th grader, they'll get it. Thats the pecking order.

No eyes poking. Thats my line in the sand. Yennie, just drive the kids to school. If anything else happen you can change your plans,

Annette

Thanks Annette. Glad you think that my son sounds well adjusted. I hear what you're saying, but I think I'm also normal for being concerned. I do know that there is a pecking order and I think that's the way of the world and learning this early is the best thing for my son. However, when a TEAMMATE treats you poorly, I find that unacceptable. No, they don't have to be friends, but being deliberately ugly is just plain wrong. As to the kids in his class excluding him, well, there's not a whole lot I can do about it. These kids are the sons of the "mean girls" who have probably been mean since they were young kids. I shouldn't be surprised that their kids are nasty piss ants...

Kenny, in my experience, some kids who bully see it at home, others feel insecure and use bullying tactics to camouflage their insecurities.

For the record, other than the eye poking incident, everything that has happened is fairly normal. There are plenty of ugly, nasty people in the world and learning to ignore them is part of growing up. To my knowledge, my son has always been very well liked (not the most popular kid in the class, but friends with everyone) so hearing these things about what was happening at school both surprised and upset me, especially knowing that we have two years left with these 31 kids before they head to middle school.

Either way, we are trying hard to use this as a teachable moment, even if its not something you'd ever wish to happen to your kid.

 

[GliderPoss]

I would tell him to be positive and friendly. Maybe ask the one time upon arrival at practice but not to push it. If the kid says they want to wait for someone else, "okay. See you on the field." Often, these kids gain power by making other kids feel small. Never let them see that it bothers him. They may start to see him differently if he remains confident and upbeat.

This a thousand times, as someone who suffered from bitchy spiteful bullying in school I understand so much better now it's mainly about lack of self esteem, trying to gain "power" by making the other person feel small. This can be very hard to see/understand as a child but by remaining slightly aloof from it all can remove their "hold" over him. My best friend was a great example of this - she was able to just walk away and no one dared bully her - she just proved to them she didn't care what they said/did. She was a happy positive person who refused to let others pull her down. I think this method seemed to work the best. I wouldn't get involved as it usually ends up worse for your son... You cannot force friendships and it can very difficult for children who are perhaps a little socially awkward. Tell him it will pass and he will emerge stronger and more confident! Best of luck.

 

[momhappy]

Being excluded is a normal part of life - some more than others, but still a part of life. As I said before, I have a child that is very socially awkward and they are often excluded. I know many of the parents of these kids and honestly, I don't think that they've done anything to promote bad behaviors in their children - the kids are just being normal kids. Most of us teach our children to be kind, nice, etc. but at the end of the day, if they don't want to hang out with someone, they don't want to hang out and nothing you can say or do will change those dynamics. Again, I am not referring to actually bullying (where routine verbal and/or physical abuse takes place), but the normal stuff (like excluding certain kids from certain activities). Instead of focusing on changing these types of normal peer interactions with my socially awkward child, we try to focus on developing our child's self-esteem, independence, and "thick" skin, so that they develop the skills to deal with it and move on with life. It's hurtful to see our children suffer and it's sounds like you're doing a great job with your son, yenny. Your son is lucky to have you

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks hotpozzum and momhappy! If nothing else, this post helped me gain some perspective. I'm sure that I'm overly sensitive, both because it's my child and because I wasn't always treated well as a teenager, so my radar is attuned for this kind of thing. Of course, there is a difference between being excluded and being bullied and we will intervene if we think that DS is being bullied, but otherwise, I guess we'll just have to keep talking about how to handle these kinds of things and hope that the message sinks in.

 

[Calliecake]

Yennyfire, I don't have anything useful to add to help your situation. As I have no children I can only imagine how heartbreaking it must be to see your child being hurt. One of your comments stood out about their moms being the "mean girls". If this is the case, I seriously doubt they would step in and talk to their children about how much their actions hurt people or that it's completely unacceptable behavior. I believe that much of the time this behavior is learned from watching their parents as others have mentioned in this thread. It is very apparent that you have done a good job teaching your children empathy and compassion. I'm sorry you are going thru this. Hugs

 

[JaneSmith]

Crap Yennyfire, this sucks. If there is one thing I've learned in life, it's that some people are a$$holes, and that includes old people and kids. I agree with the other posters that the kids probably aren't being told at home that this sort of behavior is unacceptable. Of course, the parents may not know what these kids are doing to your son.
Kids understand hierarchy and basic psychology to some degree. If they can make other kids appear to be beneath them, then they will feel good about the status they have gained. Instant (hollow) self-esteem.
Don't try to interfere too much with the other kids or the mums yet, as that will backfire for your son. Unless someone physically hurts him or he becomes troubled by the kids' actions. I think he has been more than polite and should realise that these kids are not worth his time. Ignore the buggers.
It sounds like you are doing pretty well. Just keep the lines of communication open with your boy. Easier said than done, I know.
And don't tell your son to tone it down with the athleticism! It's like telling a girl to be less good at maths to impress a boy. He should never have to compromise his integrity to avoid hurting someone's fragile ego.

 

[missy]

Yenny, nothing to add but my support and (((hugs))) to you and your little boy. I remember my grandmother (and later on my dad) saying "this too shall pass" when times got especially challenging. I still hear her saying those words to this day. Sending lots of good thoughts and positive energy to your whole family and especially your dear son.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks calliecake, janesmith and missy! I think we are doing what we can do on our end. I did make an appt. with the school counselor (which is odd for me, because that's what I'm trained for, but somehow, when it's your own kid, the objectivity flies out the window!!) to see what insight/suggestions she has. I'm really thinking that this program my son is in isn't the best place for him, simply because he's not meeting new kids each year, which means that he'll know very few kids upon entering middle school. I'm going to explore moving him (seeing if it's possible) and then talk to him about it and see how he feels.

 

[momhappy]

It sounds like you are on the right track and I hope that the school counselor has some helpful suggestions/advice for you. Please keep us posted on your situation.

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks mom happy! The meeting is Thursday morning. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[Calliecake]

I hope the school counselor has some helpful suggestions and it's possible she can shed some new light on the situation. I'm hoping what you have seen is more of an isolated incident rather than the norm. Please keep us posted. You are very good mom Yennyfire!

 

[yennyfire]

UPDATE: I met with the counselor this morning. I think it went well. She's going to talk to DS to see how he's feeling and then will use her next guidance session with the class to talk about including everyone, being kind, etc (they meet with the kids every other week and their next session is Tuesday). Hopefully, this will help in some small way. The little issues continue to occur (yesterday, the teacher told the kids to break into groups and when she looked up, my son and two little girls were alone--she took care of it, but it's hard to hear that it's happening. I asked DS who from the class he'd like to invite to come hang out (and told him someone new who he hasn't played with at home before) and that kid is coming over on Monday, so hopefully, that will go well.

My bigger concern is becoming the fact that he'll be with these kids another 2 years before heading to middle school and that when he heads to middle school, he'll have been in class with the same 30 kids for 5 years and won't know anyone else and will be in class with no one he knows. It's one thing if he has a tight group of friends heading into middle school....that's great and any new friends he makes are a "bonus" so to speak, but to head to middle school feeling like he's on an island just doesn't seem like a good way to start. The counselor agreed with me that this is the one big drawback to this program and that the kids who come out of it historically DO have a harder time adjusting in middle school.

So, I guess I'll wait to hear from her and we'll go from there. Thanks again for all of your support/suggestions. Having a safe place to vent has been tremendously helpful.

 

[purplesparklies]

I am glad to hear that the meeting with the counselor went well. A good teacher should really be fostering an environment of cooperation and acceptance in the classroom. If any child is frequently the one left after students choose partners or groups, the teacher needs to start pairing or grouping kids. In fact, the teacher should make a concerted effort to pair/group kids with different kids each time. He/she can just announce it or make a class set of labelled Popsicle sticks in a can and use that to choose randomly. It is not healthy to have children feel isolated or excluded.

My kids went to a very small school until a couple of years ago. We made the change to a larger school in part because of the concerns you have mentioned. My oldest was in 5th when we switched. It has been a healthy and beneficial change.

I hope things improve. Good work, Mom!

 

[azstonie]

You're an excellent mother. You're doing all the good and right things on behalf of your son.

it sounds to me that the school counselor was honest with you regarding the transition of kids in this program into middle school. You can make a good decision about what should happen next with these facts instead of being dismissed and brushed off.

The New York Times and several magazines over the past couple of years have had funny and insightful articles about where the mean girls from high school and college go and what they do in at their jobs and in their home lives. The consensus was if they become a home mom, meaning no working out side the home, OMG watch out because their children's school will become their venue of misery and control. That was my experience with two moms when I was teaching. I had to constantly repel their efforts to control me and my class LOL.

So don't worry too much these women are unresponsive to friendly overtures, they are not looking for friendly acquaintances, they are looking for foot soldiers!

 

[yennyfire]

Thanks purple sparklies and azstonie!! It helps to hear that you think I'm doing the right things...

 

[momhappy]

UPDATE: I met with the counselor this morning. I think it went well. She's going to talk to DS to see how he's feeling and then will use her next guidance session with the class to talk about including everyone, being kind, etc (they meet with the kids every other week and their next session is Tuesday). Hopefully, this will help in some small way. The little issues continue to occur (yesterday, the teacher told the kids to break into groups and when she looked up, my son and two little girls were alone--she took care of it, but it's hard to hear that it's happening. I asked DS who from the class he'd like to invite to come hang out (and told him someone new who he hasn't played with at home before) and that kid is coming over on Monday, so hopefully, that will go well.

My bigger concern is becoming the fact that he'll be with these kids another 2 years before heading to middle school and that when he heads to middle school, he'll have been in class with the same 30 kids for 5 years and won't know anyone else and will be in class with no one he knows. It's one thing if he has a tight group of friends heading into middle school....that's great and any new friends he makes are a "bonus" so to speak, but to head to middle school feeling like he's on an island just doesn't seem like a good way to start. The counselor agreed with me that this is the one big drawback to this program and that the kids who come out of it historically DO have a harder time adjusting in middle school.

So, I guess I'll wait to hear from her and we'll go from there. Thanks again for all of your support/suggestions. Having a safe place to vent has been tremendously helpful.

yenny, have you thought about the possibility of changing schools? Not that I would advocate rushing in and making a major change, but rather keeping an open mind and maybe researching some alternatives should the need arise in the future.
My socially awkward child had a particularly difficult time in 2nd grade and most of the advice that I received was to change schools. I researched some options and kept and open mind, but my DH and I both felt that there was potential for good life lessons to be learned if our child could overcome the issues (as opposed to mom & dad swooping in to save the day). Things started to turn around about half way through the school year and it ended better than we expected. However, we realize that these things ebb and flow and we remain open to the fact that our current school may not be a good fit for our child at some point.
I'm glad that the meeting with the counselor went well - you are definitely on the right path! Stay involved and keep the lines of communication open. Hugs to you - you sound like a wonderful momma