Can't vote. Can't drink. But here's an Uzi...

[Gypsy]

http://www.realclear.com/us/2014/08/27/girl_accidentally_kills_gun_instructor_with_uzi_8524.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=sponsored&utm_campaign=beingliberal

Aren't there laws about kids using these types of guns??? I mean seriously. I can see showing a kid how to shoot a shot gun or a hand gun. But who in their right mind gives a 9 year old one of these. And then is surprised when something like this happened. I'm sorry, this isn't a tragedy. It's just Darwinism.

 

[ksinger]

http://www.realclear.com/us/2014/08/27/girl_accidentally_kills_gun_instructor_with_uzi_8524.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=sponsored&utm_campaign=beingliberal

Aren't there laws about kids using these types of guns??? I mean seriously. I can see showing a kid how to shoot a shot gun or a hand gun. But who in their right mind gives a 9 year old one of these. And then is surprised when something like this happened. I'm sorry, this isn't a tragedy. It's just Darwinism.

This is a stellar example of how ideology drives out common sense. But hey, he died with his 2nd amendment rights intact, and that's the important thing.

And it is actually a tragedy - for the little girl, who is going to be dealing with what her parents obviously encouraged/let her do, which is nothing short of a betrayal IMO. She will deal with for the rest of her life. Her childhood is DONE.

 

[Gypsy]

And it is actually a tragedy - for the little girl, who is going to be dealing with what her parents obviously encouraged/let her do, which is nothing short of a betrayal IMO. She will deal with for the rest of her life. Her childhood is DONE.

Okay. I admit. That is true. The child is the victim. And you are right, her childhood is done.

Idiot parents and instructor are to blame. And it's just appalling. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yup. And that's why gun control laws are a good thing. To regulate PEOPLE. Like these morons.

 

[perry]

I personally think he should be nominated for a Darwin Award.

But, a tragedy for the young woman and her parents.


This really has little to do with 2nd amendment rights. There have always been places where young men and woman could learn to shoot responsibly. Key is to start people out with a gun with a small enough caliber that they can control. That used to be in the training material for teaching youngsters how to shoot. Then you progress them up based on their desire and their demonstrated ability to handle the previous size and type of gun.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[ksinger]

And it is actually a tragedy - for the little girl, who is going to be dealing with what her parents obviously encouraged/let her do, which is nothing short of a betrayal IMO. She will deal with for the rest of her life. Her childhood is DONE.

Okay. I admit. That is true. The child is the victim. And you are right, her childhood is done.

Idiot parents and instructor are to blame. And it's just appalling. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yup. And that's why gun control laws are a good thing. To regulate PEOPLE. Like these morons.

But hey, remember: we're supposed to roll over and act like all is well and normal when some yayhoo walks through a restaurant with a gun(s) in open view, because obviously they are trained and mean no harm and we're just being paranoid and un-mercun to think otherwise.

A gun range instructor fer chrissakes, doesn't understand that you don't let a child handle a full auto weapon for the first time without steadying?? I mean let's not even discuss just how moronic the entire scenario of a 9 year old with any gun but especially a full-auto - is in general, the guy was obviously an idiot with delusions of immortality to let any child handle a gun like that without his physical guidance. Darwin indeed. Let's hope that for everyone's sake (including any children he may have contributed DNA for) that he had no children.

 

[MMtwo]

Look, we're a 2a family/household. Exactly the type many on here snicker at. My fiance is concealed carrying at every restaurant we go into. That's just fine, you all disagree and another (pointless) conversation that goes around and round could be inserted here. Saying that, there is no way in hell I would let my kid shoot a Uzi. That had WAY too much kick for a child. That WAS a Darwin moment and I feel sorry for the little kid.

On the way out of work, a little girl, maybe 5, ran into the road after her chihuahua. She stood in the road shreaming at her puppy, terrified the dog would get hit. then she realized she wasn't supposed to be in the road. Traffic stopped. Mom was in the house. I laid on the horn and started to park the car to get kid and dog out of the road. Mom came strolling out of the house and came up angrily at the little girl and said, "What are you doing?" as if she was annoyed her movie was interrupted. yeah, I wanted to get out of my car and smack the momma.

It's too bad we don't check parents for common sense before they make children, you know?

 

[Gypsy]

And it is actually a tragedy - for the little girl, who is going to be dealing with what her parents obviously encouraged/let her do, which is nothing short of a betrayal IMO. She will deal with for the rest of her life. Her childhood is DONE.

Okay. I admit. That is true. The child is the victim. And you are right, her childhood is done.

Idiot parents and instructor are to blame. And it's just appalling. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yup. And that's why gun control laws are a good thing. To regulate PEOPLE. Like these morons.

But hey, remember: we're supposed to roll over and act like all is well and normal when some yayhoo walks through a restaurant with a gun(s) in open view, because obviously they are trained and mean no harm and we're just being paranoid and un-mercun to think otherwise.

A gun range instructor fer chrissakes, doesn't understand that you don't let a child handle a full auto weapon for the first time without steadying?? I mean let's not even discuss just how moronic the entire scenario of a 9 year old with any gun but especially a full-auto - is in general, the guy was obviously an idiot with delusions of immortality to let any child handle a gun like that without his physical guidance. Darwin indeed. Let's hope that for everyone's sake (including any children he may have contributed DNA for) that he had no children.

Yup. All of it. Just, yup.

I am tired of hearing about 'responsible' gun owners and how these yahoos are the 'exception," seems to me that either the word "responsible" is defined loosely by gun advocates, or "exception" is. Because I gotta say, a GUN INSTRUCTOR should be the very definition of a responsible gun owner and should be TEACHING responsible run ownership. An Uzi!

But by all means, let's keep saying these people are the exception and excusing it that way.

 

[Gypsy]

It's too bad we don't check parents for common sense before they make children, you know?

There should be licensing requirements.

 

[Calliecake]

I saw this on the news last night and could not believe this was legal. It made me sick to think of what this poor child will have to deal with because she has complete idiots for parents. A parent thinking shooting an Uzi is an appropriate activity for a child....Seriously
I'm totally with you on feeling you should have to have a license to be a parent.

Please don't blast me for posting this. I'm really not trying to start a war here. I'm sure someone will post that it's a parent right to let their 9 year old shoot an Uzi.

 

[Calliecake]

I just read that the gun range this happened at has shut down. The Burgers and Bullets gun range website shows the gun range, burgers and beer. I'm struggling how anyone would think a gun range and alcohol should be at the same place.

 

[MMtwo]

I just read that the gun range this happened at has shut down. The Burgers and Bullets gun range website shows the gun range, burgers and beer. I'm struggling how anyone would think a gun range and alcohol should be at the same place.

They shouldnt EVER be in the same place. That's just crap - serious crap. I know you all think people with guns are nutcases, but the group I know are ex-military, law enforcement, nurses, doctors (lol, apparently medics like guns!) and computer programmers. All lock their guns in safes and are VERY careful to follow the laws. None of them would go to a range with alcohol. None of them would give an Uzi to a child.

 

[Calliecake]

I just read that the gun range this happened at has shut down. The Burgers and Bullets gun range website shows the gun range, burgers and beer. I'm struggling how anyone would think a gun range and alcohol should be at the same place.

They shouldnt EVER be in the same place. That's just crap - serious crap. I know you all think people with guns are nutcases, but the group I know are ex-military, law enforcement, nurses, doctors (lol, apparently medics like guns!) and computer programmers. All lock their guns in safes and are VERY careful to follow the laws. None of them would go to a range with alcohol. None of them would give an Uzi to a child.

Hi Moneymeiser, I've never held a gun but my husband is a very responsible gun owner. He used to trap shot years ago. Guns are always locked in a safe. My husband also said guns and alcohol should never be allowed in the same place. This whole story was just so bizarre to me.

 

[MMtwo]

I just read that the gun range this happened at has shut down. The Burgers and Bullets gun range website shows the gun range, burgers and beer. I'm struggling how anyone would think a gun range and alcohol should be at the same place.

They shouldnt EVER be in the same place. That's just crap - serious crap. I know you all think people with guns are nutcases, but the group I know are ex-military, law enforcement, nurses, doctors (lol, apparently medics like guns!) and computer programmers. All lock their guns in safes and are VERY careful to follow the laws. None of them would go to a range with alcohol. None of them would give an Uzi to a child.

Hi Moneymeiser, I've never held a gun but my husband is a very responsible gun owner. He used to trap shot years ago. Guns are always locked in a safe. My husband also said guns and alcohol should never be allowed in the same place. This whole story was just so bizarre to me.

Right - bizarre! Well, since your honey has a gun, I know you don't think all gun owners are nuts I assumed a bit much I guess, I'm sorry!

So sad that little girl will have to carry that with her

 

[movie zombie]

the parents took their daughter there.
it was their decision.
the instructor should have known better and at the very least helped her to handle the weapon while firing.
never NEVER every handle a weapon that one cannot control.
that is one of the absolute top safety issues.
imo, in this instance it was the Parents and the Instructor who are to blame.
unfortunately, this little girl will have to live with this for the rest of her life.

 

[Karl_K]

I have fired a FA Uzi and they are a hand full even for adults if you don't use the proper technique.
We started out with 3 rounds in the gun before we could move on to more.
The idea was in three rounds it would not rise to a dangerous level if you lost control of it.

The really sad thing is there is a 22lr conversion available that makes it easy for anyone to control and just as fun and they can say they shot a FA Uzi. It would make a much better place to start.
A 9mm mp5 from a rest would be an even better idea.

 

[kenny]

I feel so sorry for that nine year old girl.

 

[Karl_K]

I feel so sorry for that nine year old girl.

me too

 

[arkieb1]

We saw in on our news here, they played it over and over. For all of the gun lobby fans, I would like to reiterate I grew up in a rural area I am not against guns at all but the laws on the TYPE of guns that average citizen can get hold of and use needs to be reformed.

The instructor and the parents of the poor child should have known better and there should be laws in place to prevent any morons that clearly do not know better.

 

[Andelain]

I just read that the gun range this happened at has shut down. The Burgers and Bullets gun range website shows the gun range, burgers and beer. I'm struggling how anyone would think a gun range and alcohol should be at the same place.

They shouldn't be. You and your gun should never be loaded at the same time.

I don't know what was going through that instructor's head, besides 9mm that is, but I agree that he got a Darwin award. Anyone using more than 2 brain cells knows better than to hand a child a full auto gun without training first. that poor girl will have to live with that forever.

 

[Gypsy]

I enjoy shooting. I used to do it in college. Was good at it too. My husband likes shooting as well. He wants to own a gun. I've recently come around to gun ownership.

But my definition of responsible is very strict. And it involves a gun safe, rules about what circumstances it is okay to get the gun, and definitely no alcohol.

I feel that ideally owning a gun should be like owning a car. A privilege not a right. I understand our history and I truly do appreciate WHY it is a right. But I don't believe that it is unalienable. Many rights in the constitution are balanced by public safety considerations. I don't think that limiting the types of guns (automatics and semiautomatics) is unreasonable infringement. I don't think sensible licensing requirements are either.

We have a lot of gun laws in this country. But most of them are not EFFECTIVE. I think what we need is reform and then the enactment of laws on a federal level that truly make sense and are effective.

As for gun ranges. It should be a law that they cannot serve alcohol. I don't think that's unreasonable either. And I'm shocked that it is not ALREADY a law. Alcohol licenses should not ever be granted to shooting ranges.

 

[distracts]

I knew how to shoot a gun as a kid. A BB GUN. Because that's the kind of gun you let kids shoot. Once in a while I was allowed a handgun at a ranch, but always a little pistol. I am shocked that anyone would let a kid handle an uzi.

They shouldnt EVER be in the same place. That's just crap - serious crap. I know you all think people with guns are nutcases, but the group I know are ex-military, law enforcement, nurses, doctors (lol, apparently medics like guns!) and computer programmers. All lock their guns in safes and are VERY careful to follow the laws. None of them would go to a range with alcohol. None of them would give an Uzi to a child.

Not everyone who posts here who is pro-gun-control is anti-gun. We own several. My husband and I both plan to get our CHLs (uh, full disclosure, I don't really care, but he wants me to, so whatevah). I know many, many people who carry (lol, insert Texas joke here), and almost all the men I know have a handgun in the nightstand (in my experience, it's a standard red-state first adultfuntimes sleepover disclosure: "Hey, there's a gun in the drawer, don't freak out, beeteedubs it's loaded and the safety is off, I can put on the safety or lock it in the safe if it bothers you?"). But not having better gun control laws is NUTS. Too many people CAN own guns (or apparently just shoot them, or bring their child to shoot them) who are just not responsible enough for them.

I don't know what was going through that instructor's head, besides 9mm that is, but I agree that he got a Darwin award.

ngl I laughed

 

[Karl_K]

We saw in on our news here, they played it over and over. For all of the gun lobby fans, I would like to reiterate I grew up in a rural area I am not against guns at all but the laws on the TYPE of guns that average citizen can get hold of and use needs to be reformed.

The instructor and the parents of the poor child should have known better and there should be laws in place to prevent any morons that clearly do not know better.

Full auto firearms are very strictly regulated to an unconstitutional level if you ask me.
New ones built since 1986 can not be sold on the civilian market.
Some states ban them totally.
Ownership requires a tax stamp that is $200 plus a full background check and local law enforcement sign off.
It takes 8-15 months for the paperwork to be processed before you can take procession of the first one and 6 months for any after that.
There has never been a crime committed with a legally registered full auto firearm since the registration process has been put in place in 1934.

The vast majority of police officers who were not in the military have never shot a full auto firearm.
A full auto Uzi registered Uzi last time I checked sold for over $10000 in very good condition and some of the rarer variants up to $150000. One of the more common ones in need of a total rebuild can still fetch $5000.
So the fact is they are not easy to get, highly regulated, and cost a lot of money and have never been used in a crime.
The reason that ranges like this one are so popular in Vegas is that FA firearms are so hard to get many gun enthusiasts will never shoot one outside the military and a few police.

edit to add:
In 1986 before the ban on new ones a used FA Uzi was around $700 plus the stamp.
A new imi FA was around $1200 plus stamp as I recall.






.

 

[Karl_K]

An interesting fact is that the most common customer at these ranges are Japanese tourists.
Some people fly into Vegas from Japan just to shoot them.

 

[zoebartlett]

I usually don't participate in these types of threads but this one makes me so angry. This girl and her stupid parents are going to have to live with this for the rest of their lives. She'll be dealing with trauma for a long, long time, I imagine, and it was completely preventable. No one in his/her right mind would give an Uzi to a child. I blame the instructor and the store/company he worked for as well.The victims in this are the instructor's family and yes, the little girl.

 

[SB621]

I have been shooting since I was 7 years old. My grandfather was a sniper in WWII and you can best believe he taught his only granddaughter how to shoot and defend when necessary. With all that said he NEVER would have let me shoot in conditions where I wasn't old enough, responsible enough or physical capable of handling a weapon. I started out young with the easiest hand gun out there. I Never shot an Uzi till I was almost 20 and proven myself capable. I'm truly sorry this man died. I feel for his family, the little girl and her family for having to witness this. However I do hope that people learn that just because you can doesn't mean you shouldn't! And above all guns even in the best intentions are still destructive. You must always be aware and responsible. Such a waste.

 

[momhappy]

And it is actually a tragedy - for the little girl, who is going to be dealing with what her parents obviously encouraged/let her do, which is nothing short of a betrayal IMO. She will deal with for the rest of her life. Her childhood is DONE.

Okay. I admit. That is true. The child is the victim. And you are right, her childhood is done.

Idiot parents and instructor are to blame. And it's just appalling. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yup. And that's why gun control laws are a good thing. To regulate PEOPLE. Like these morons.

But hey, remember: we're supposed to roll over and act like all is well and normal when some yayhoo walks through a restaurant with a gun(s) in open view, because obviously they are trained and mean no harm and we're just being paranoid and un-mercun to think otherwise.

A gun range instructor fer chrissakes, doesn't understand that you don't let a child handle a full auto weapon for the first time without steadying?? I mean let's not even discuss just how moronic the entire scenario of a 9 year old with any gun but especially a full-auto - is in general, the guy was obviously an idiot with delusions of immortality to let any child handle a gun like that without his physical guidance. Darwin indeed. Let's hope that for everyone's sake (including any children he may have contributed DNA for) that he had no children.

Yup. All of it. Just, yup.

I am tired of hearing about 'responsible' gun owners and how these yahoos are the 'exception," seems to me that either the word "responsible" is defined loosely by gun advocates, or "exception" is. Because I gotta say, a GUN INSTRUCTOR should be the very definition of a responsible gun owner and should be TEACHING responsible run ownership. An Uzi!

But by all means, let's keep saying these people are the exception and excusing it that way.

Despite your beliefs, this type of thing is the exception. I know many gun owners, but most of them wouldn't have allowed what happened here. Most gun ranges have laws that dictate age limits, types of weapons that can be fired, etc. Lots of children are taught how to shoot, but I think that many gun owners would agree that certain types of weapons should be off-limits to children. I don't have an issue with a young person learning how to responsibly handle a weapon under strict supervision/instruction, but there's certainly no reason (that I can see) why a young child would need to learn how to use that type of firearm (at least not here in the US). With the sheer number of gun owners, accidents are bound to happen. Lumping all gun owners into one category (as "yahoos") is entirely unfair.
As far as alcohol and gun ranges are concerned, I completely agree that they should never be allowed and I am shocked that it even exists. I believe that at these particular shooting ranges, alcohol is only permitted AFTER shooting, but I still strongly disagree that alcohol should be allowed at at a shooting range. Even if it's regulated, it still sends the wrong message.
This whole situation is truly sad. That poor girl A young child should never have been put in that type of situation. Shame on her parents….

 

[MarionC]

I personally would be fearful about visiting a gun range because I would be in the presence of people learning to shoot with weapons they don't really understand. That shooting of the instructor could have been much much worse - what if the girl had kept pivoting with her finger on the trigger? Think of all the by-standers who escaped being shot that day.

I blame the girls parents for putting her in harm's way. What parent thinks it's fun to teach your kid to use an Uzi?! I doubt she will ever have a normal life now.
This story illustrates "our" relationship with guns. So safe if you have no intent to injure another person.

 

[perry]

I agree it is the exception;

Concerning the alcohol issue. Hmmmm.... alcohol is a part of our culture. It is served at most restaurants and in most homes - and no one feels that is a bad thing.

My local gun range also has an alcohol license. I have only seen "the bar" open after all range activities shut down - and for dinner type events. Most people have a beer, or a glass of wine. I have never seen anyone have a 2nd one. I have never seen a pitcher of beer either at a gun range (mine or any I have visited). Yet, lots of people in bars and restaurant's have multiple drinks and no one calls them irresponsible.

So why is it a problem that a gun club has a alcohol license. I propose that the people at gun clubs are in general better behaved and more responsible than the average people at restaurants. But, somehow the problem Is the gun clubs.

An interesting comparison is would people claim that drunk drivers, even repeat drunk drivers, are the "norm" - or are they the exception (or something in between).

Drunk drivers kill far more people every year than do idiots with guns in "strange" situations like this. They severely injure I think about 10X times the number they kill. They also do a lot more property damage.

But that is largely accepted by the population; and while MADD exists; there really is not much public outcry over drunk driving. Nor any punishment for the people who have 5-10 DWI's (and bad "accidents") on their record. They no longer have drivers licenses - but that does not stop them from driving when drunk.

I find it interesting that in almost all cases where there is an event with a gun - the police confiscate the gun. While the gun can be returned in certain cases; in most cases it becomes the property of the police department. Why don't they do that with drunk drivers. Confiscate the vehicle; and return in only in certain cases. We would save a lot more lives, prevent a lot more injuries, and have a better society.

Remember, cars don't kill people. The person driving the car is the responsible party (only we rarely hold them responsible).

Have a great day,

Perry

Edited to add: Note that I do not drink alcohol and have never been drunk in my life. That is a personal choice; but, I do not think it odd or a problem that most people do drink alcohol; and most of them do so responsibly.

The "instructor" in this case was an idiot - and this even is almost totally his fault - and he died from it so he will not repeat it again.

 

[LLJsmom]

Really?? Yes, for sure, Darwin Award winner. Maybe the top if the list if it will fit the parents and the instructor. Gun control is too much for me to debate. I propose common sense. 9 year old girl plus Uzi equals stupidity. And sometimes the consequences of stupidity are severe...

 

[momhappy]

I agree it is the exception;

Concerning the alcohol issue. Hmmmm.... alcohol is a part of our culture. It is served at most restaurants and in most homes - and no one feels that is a bad thing.

My local gun range also has an alcohol license. I have only seen "the bar" open after all range activities shut down - and for dinner type events. Most people have a beer, or a glass of wine. I have never seen anyone have a 2nd one. I have never seen a pitcher of beer either at a gun range (mine or any I have visited). Yet, lots of people in bars and restaurant's have multiple drinks and no one calls them irresponsible.

So why is it a problem that a gun club has a alcohol license. I propose that the people at gun clubs are in general better behaved and more responsible than the average people at restaurants. But, somehow the problem Is the gun clubs.

An interesting comparison is would people claim that drunk drivers, even repeat drunk drivers, are the "norm" - or are they the exception (or something in between).

Drunk drivers kill far more people every year than do idiots with guns in "strange" situations like this. They severely injure I think about 10X times the number they kill. They also do a lot more property damage.

But that is largely accepted by the population; and while MADD exists; there really is not much public outcry over drunk driving. Nor any punishment for the people who have 5-10 DWI's (and bad "accidents") on their record. They no longer have drivers licenses - but that does not stop them from driving when drunk.

I find it interesting that in almost all cases where there is an event with a gun - the police confiscate the gun. While the gun can be returned in certain cases; in most cases it becomes the property of the police department. Why don't they do that with drunk drivers. Confiscate the vehicle; and return in only in certain cases. We would save a lot more lives, prevent a lot more injuries, and have a better society.

Remember, cars don't kill people. The person driving the car is the responsible party (only we rarely hold them responsible).

Have a great day,

Perry

Edited to add: Note that I do not drink alcohol and have never been drunk in my life. That is a personal choice; but, I do not think it odd or a problem that most people do drink alcohol; and most of them do so responsibly.

The "instructor" in this case was an idiot - and this even is almost totally his fault - and he died from it so he will not repeat it again.

Personally, I do not believe that alcohol should be allowed at a shooting range. Even if it is regulated (rules that dictate that alcohol consumption can only occur after shooting and not before), I still feel that it sends the wrong message (and somehow feels irresponsible). There are laws that regulate alcohol consumption and concealed carry permits (you can not drink ANY amount of alcohol and legally carry a gun), so why the need for alcohol at a shooting range? Shooting ranges should be made for shooting. Period. If you want to grab a drink afterwards, go to a bar or a restaurant….