Just bought my first diamond!!

[BoostHog]

Hoping I did well. Unfortunately, no pics yet as I haven't received it yet. Here are the specs.

To make this fun, what do you all think a diamond with these specs should cost?

Diamond Details

Carat weight 1.23
Cut Sig. Ideal
Color D
Clarity VVS1
Length/width ratio 1.01
Depth % 61.4%
Table % 57.0%
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Girdle Thin to Medium
Culet None
Fluorescence Faint
Measurements 6.88 x 6.92 x 4.24 mm

 

[drk14]

I'll bite... $19k?

 

[SirGuy]

Hard to say! "Signature ideal" sounds like a seller's phrasing. The color and clarity grades depend on who did the report! What shape is your stone?

 

[Gypsy]

Signature Ideal is Blue Nile's way of sorting through stones. SO you probably bought it there. As for price. Not enough information. We'd need the pavilion and crown angles to evaluate the cut. And cut affects pricing.


As for what you paid? Way too much. D VVS is well... a waste unless you have to have it cultural reasons.

 

[thebigjdoe]

Signature Ideal is Blue Nile's way of sorting through stones. SO you probably bought it there. As for price. Not enough information. We'd need the pavilion and crown angles to evaluate the cut. And cut affects pricing.


As for what you paid? Way too much. D VVS is well... a waste unless you have to have it cultural reasons.

Love how gypsy gets right to the point lol. Maybe all her friends has d color and he doesn't wanna get shown up. Nothing wrong with wanting the best one in the group

 

[Gypsy]

The D isn't the problem. I'd love a D one day. But the VVS... Oy!

 

[BoostHog]

Here are the angles. Yes it was purchased from BN after trying very hard to be patient elsewhere but realizing the inventory just can't compete. I can still return it of course and that's why I appreciate your advice.

Can anyone tell me what to look for in the angles? I originally wanted a whiteflash ACA, but they didn't have what I needed. Anyone know what range of angles i should be looking for that would compete with an ACA?

Thanks!

@drk14 spot on
@gypsy so I take it you think I'd be better off getting more ct weight and sacrificing clarity to VS territory?

 

[Gypsy]

he entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Gypsy]

Here are the spec ranges from Lorelei. But you need to run them through the HCA. And get an idealscope per above:
depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - HCA, eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

 

[HappyNewLife]

it got a 2.3 on the HCA (Very Good all around), I'm surprised it wasn't under 2 for Sig Ideal.

I'll guess you paid $14,000

 

[Mike714321]

With a HCA score of 2.3 hopefully you got a great deal on it! When it shows up you'll have a better idea of what you've purchased. Numbers are numbers and at the end of the day, if you love the diamond and think it's beautiful, then that's all that counts! I'd recommend taking the diamond to a 3rd party knowledgeable gemologist for an inspection. Post some pictures when you get it!

 

[BoostHog]

Thanks Gypsy!

So the specs of what I ordered seem to line up with your suggestions on paper. The CA and PA are on the "steep" side, so I guess it doesn't hurt to take a look at it in person. I am very much open to looking and sending them back if they are not right. And I don't mind Ideal Scoping the stones myself if it's going to save me 3-4K, which is what I was looking at with WF.

 

[Gypsy]

it got a 2.3 on the HCA (Very Good all around), I'm surprised it wasn't under 2 for Sig Ideal.

I'll guess you paid $14,000

Signature ideal is a vendor rating. And irrelevant. You'll find stones with HCAs of over 5 on there too.

 

[BoostHog]

@Gypsy do you have a preferred place to pick up an Ideal Scope?

Was looking at this one http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=26&ShowAdd=Y

The great thing about these is they seem very easy to use.

 

[Gypsy]

That's the only place I know of it get one.

You can also just go to an appraiser that has one. It would be a good idea anyway. Where are you located in the US?

 

[BoostHog]

San Francisco

 

[Gypsy]

That's where I am. Nancy Stacy is in the bay area. You can call her. http://www.jewelry-appraisal.com/

 

[drk14]

That's the only place I know of it get one.

Some appraisers sell IdealScopes, too. At least Dave Atlas does:
http://datlas.com/ideal-scope-store/


And if you want an ASET scope, another option is to buy from AGS:
http://www.americangemsociety.org/uploads/PricelistOrderFormMemberNonMember072010-1158.pdf

 

[BoostHog]

Thanks again Gypsy!

HCA of 2.3 so it's in maybe territory. Will look in person and decide to send it back or not. If I understand HCA properly, it is possible even with a score of 2.3 that it might lie in AGS0 grading. But it could also sit outside of that range, which is where the appraiser will come in. I will definitely contact your appraiser!

 

[Gypsy]

I have an ASET scope. If you live near me I can even meet you someplace local and let you look through it for free. I'm on the pennisula.

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Boosthog,

And I don't mind Ideal Scoping the stones myself if it's going to save me 3-4K

You will find many of the signature lines of the vendors here on Pricescope (ACA among them) have parameters for cut that are far stricter than any report or images can show, and the 'extra' money is for the extended planning, higher-achieving tools and cutting skill needed to produce a reliable diamond output that is substantially more consistent in optical quality than wider/looser "signature" lines, and even the parameters you will find advocated in Lorelei's specs posted above.

 

[BoostHog]

So a bit of an update. Got the stone and compared it to others at a friends jewelry store. Realized how extremely difficult it is for laymen to really tell the difference between diamond characteristics.

Went to another shop with strong overhead lighting and the lady there noticed the fluorescence of the stone immediately. She set it side by side with other stones and honestly it was very hard for me to tell the difference. She did however state that fluorescent stones are personal preference, but from a valuation perspective are usually harder to sell and get discounted 10-15% over a stone with identical specs and no fluorescence.

They also showed me specs of another stone (ofcourse). Almost identical specs to mine except the geometry was better. HCA score of 0.6. No fluorescence. D color 1.21 vvs1.

They said they could match my price, but the difference would be I'd have to pay tax.total difference to me about 1k. I'm thinking about negotiating with them to split the difference and switch for the stone with better geometry.

Ughh second guessing purchases like this sucks.

 

[nukezero]

You probably don't want florescence in a D color. A D is as white as it can get. Fluorescence is a personal taste but typically is applied for lower color stones like HIJ colors to make it whiter. It is typically beneficial or maintains the value if you have florescence on HIJ colors but it hurts the value on DEF. Go figure. That's what I read on some websites.

I'm getting myself an H color and in case my girlfriend thinks it could be showing a hint of yellowish-ness, I'm backing it up with a strong blue fluorescence grade from GIA. Plus, I like the idea that when she goes to restaurants or night out of town, it could glow a bit blue.

 

[RockyRacoon]

You probably don't want florescence in a D color

This is completely subjective and should not be stated as fact.

I would DEFINITELY want fluorescence in a D-colored stone.

In fact, less than 50 years ago, these D-colored fluor stones sold with a huge premium over non-fluor stones of the same color.

Here are details about fluorescence, so you can make an informed decision:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/blue_fluorescence_diamonds

 

[RockyRacoon]

I'm getting myself an H color and in case my girlfriend thinks it could be showing a hint of yellowish-ness, I'm backing it up with a strong blue fluorescence grade from GIA.

H is a fine color, but I don't want you to think fluor is going to make it appear G or F-colored.

Only under VERY specific conditions (sunlight or blacklight) will the fluor even be evident. In those situations, the amount of 'color improvement' you see will vary widely. This is regardless of 'Grade' of fluor, as GIA is notoriously inconsistent with their fluorescence grades.

If you're worried about your girlfriend's color sensitivity, stick with G-colored stones and up.

Best of luck!

 

[SirGuy]

They also showed me specs of another stone (ofcourse). Almost identical specs to mine except the geometry was better. HCA score of 0.6. No fluorescence. D color 1.21 vvs1.

This caught my attention. What do you (or they) mean by "better geometry?" Numbers on a stone are a curious thing, and if I have two similar stones in front of me, I'd be suspicious if a B&M person tried to casually remark that one had better geometry. A lower HCA score, when both are below, say, 2, doesn't necessarily mean one's better. A 0.6 isn't immediately better than a 1.2 and may be worse.

What are the numbers on the new potential stone? And more importantly, what did your eyes tell you?

 

[BoostHog]

The BN stone i have in hand is a 2.3 on the hca scale. This new stone has the following specs which you can compare to the specs of the BN stone at the top of the thread.

Gia specs
6.88 - 6.9 x 4.20mm
1.21 ct
D
VVS1
Cut excellent
Polish excellent
Symmetry excellent
Fluorescence none

Table 56%
Depth 61%
33 degree crown
41 degree pavilion

0.6 hca

And its cheaper, but that wasn't really a motivating factor.

 

[ecf8503]

You probably don't want florescence in a D color

This is completely subjective and should not be stated as fact.

I would DEFINITELY want fluorescence in a D-colored stone.

In fact, less than 50 years ago, these D-colored fluor stones sold with a huge premium over non-fluor stones of the same color.

Here are details about fluorescence, so you can make an informed decision:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/blue_fluorescence_diamonds

I agree - I have a D w/ sbf and it is awesome!