Risky? Advice please on unseen GIA graded SI1, J, round

[Danwarren87]

Hello!

After reading some really helpful and enlightening threads on this website, I was hoping some of those with experience could give me some more specific advice

I am from the UK, but I'm looking to buy a diamond from the US since I can get a lot more for my money. This means I won’t be able to inspect the diamond before buying it, and also makes returns rather awkward and more expensive. Now I thought this shouldn't be too much of an issue as neither I, or my Fiancée to be, are diamond experts and so long as I choose a GIA diamond with my pre researched specifications, all should be fine. I'm looking for a round, most ideal cut, VS2 or SI1, J at the highest carat I can get which with these specs seems to be around 0.9 with my budget of $3 - $3.5k

I've decided to go for a J as I've seen another thread on PS with many people happy with J’s of this size and larger where you can’t even tell the difference against higher grades. However, I've found a GIA graded J diamond which when I enquired about, the seller had the diamond visually inspected and advised me not to take the diamond because it has ‘a tinge of brown’. Now I'm very glad the website informed me of this, however now I'm worried that if I buy a J diamond (graded by GIA) without seeing it, it might not be as near colourless as I had hoped!

Am I running a risk in expecting all J’s to be near colourless and quite imperceptible to the untrained naked eye? Would you recommend going up any grades since I can’t inspect the diamond myself?

Also, my overall ring budget is about $5k and I would really like to select my own diamond from PS, but I'm wondering if I would then be making it very difficult for myself to find a Jeweller who will use my diamond in their setting. I've found a platinum setting I really like (for $1,700), but the retailer said it’s not possible to buy just the setting. Would there be much of a premium in having another jeweller recreate the same (fairly simple) design? Or if I found a bespoke jeweller could I expect to pay roughly the same as “off the shelf” since the same work is involved?

Thanks very much for your help!

 

[WinkHPD]

Hello!

After reading some really helpful and enlightening threads on this website, I was hoping some of those with experience could give me some more specific advice

I am from the UK, but I'm looking to buy a diamond from the US since I can get a lot more for my money. This means I won’t be able to inspect the diamond before buying it, and also makes returns rather awkward and more expensive. Now I thought this shouldn't be too much of an issue as neither I, or my Fiancée to be, are diamond experts and so long as I choose a GIA diamond with my pre researched specifications, all should be fine. I'm looking for a round, most ideal cut, VS2 or SI1, J at the highest carat I can get which with these specs seems to be around 0.9 with my budget of $3 - $3.5k

I've decided to go for a J as I've seen another thread on PS with many people happy with J’s of this size and larger where you can’t even tell the difference against higher grades. However, I've found a GIA graded J diamond which when I enquired about, the seller had the diamond visually inspected and advised me not to take the diamond because it has ‘a tinge of brown’. Now I'm very glad the website informed me of this, however now I'm worried that if I buy a J diamond (graded by GIA) without seeing it, it might not be as near colourless as I had hoped!

Am I running a risk in expecting all J’s to be near colourless and quite imperceptible to the untrained naked eye? Would you recommend going up any grades since I can’t inspect the diamond myself?

Also, my overall ring budget is about $5k and I would really like to select my own diamond from PS, but I'm wondering if I would then be making it very difficult for myself to find a Jeweller who will use my diamond in their setting. I've found a platinum setting I really like (for $1,700), but the retailer said it’s not possible to buy just the setting. Would there be much of a premium in having another jeweller recreate the same (fairly simple) design? Or if I found a bespoke jeweller could I expect to pay roughly the same as “off the shelf” since the same work is involved?

Thanks very much for your help!

You will need to look at some GIA graded J's to know whether or not you find them too yellow. Many people do not, but many people do. We can not answer for you which you will be.

Do not assume that all GIA graded diamonds, even those with the coveted XXX cut ranking, are actually well cut. The GIA cut grading system is pathetic and WAY too inclusive.

Many jewelers are happy to make a mounting for you, whether or not you purchased the center diamond from them. If the style you want is with a jeweler who has decided not to sell you the most profitable part of the sale since you have already purchased the item with the least margin, then find another jeweler or talk with the vendor who is selling you the diamond. Most of the vendors that sell diamonds also sell mountings, and you can see what their reputation is by googling them. If they have a bad reputation, then simply walk away.

Most of all, be sure to have fun working on this exciting project!

Wink

 

[Danwarren87]

Hi Wink,

Thanks for your quick reply.

Well, I thought I was fine with a J graded diamond from the pictures I had seen and from the feedback of other J wearers. But what concerns me is if some J’s will have more colour than others. Specifically I was surprised to hear that the one I enquired about had a brown colour – if anything I would have expected only slight yellow.

Are all GIA graded J’s equal? Is it surprising to anyone else to hear that a J had a brown colour?

Regarding the cut, rather than just relying on GIA XXX I am also only looking in the range of 54-57 / 60-62 and angles 34-35 / 40.6-41

Would you still consider this not a guarantee of an ideal cut? Is there another lab which you recommend for being sure of a greatly cut diamond?

Thanks

 

[jillianfl]

I have an L faint brown Si1, it is the one in my avatar- it looks almost white in sunlight (it has medium fluorescence) and I am going to set it in rose gold halo to make it hopefully turn pinkish... I have put a penny under it and that has made it show desirable pinkish tinged color, so I am super happy with my L faint brown. If you were to get the brownish tinged J definitely have it set in rose gold, or a rose gold halo (mine will be double halo white gold outside rose gold inside) or a rose gold basket under it.... I am really happy with mine and I personally prefer it to the yellow toned lower colors. There is some stigma against faint brown diamonds but I am definitely happy with mine, I got way more for my $$ and it seems I can make it turn slightly pinkish! I would never look at mine and see brown either- just looks like a warm stone to me, and a J is much lighter than an L anyway. But in outdoor light it can really face up white like shown in my avatar.

Yes, all J's are graded equal on the grading paper. GIA only gives "faint brown" designation in the color section on the grading paper to K's and lower on the color scale. Likely their in house gemologist is looking at it and has decided that he sees faint brown undertone to it, because it's not on the grading paper so I don't know how he would have any other way to determine that other than by judging that for himself. (And he's the one getting paid to do that so he's probably right

I am a size and cut are most important to me person, so I started looking lower on color scale and found this one and realized how awesome it would look in rose gold after researching and seeing other faint browns in rose gold or rose and white gold (always surrounded by rose gold though) online and am so happy I snatched it up! This is a pic of one of my favorite "L" color faint brown diamonds looking pink, it's a Diamonds By Lauren ring... Also here is a pic of my L faint brown on a penny compared to a GIA G, and I have included a few other pics of mine the one on my hand is on a cloudy day... again mine is an L so that will be much darker than the J.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

[jillianfl]

Oh and you brought up a good point about "do some J's have more color than others" if they are all GIA J's they should be basically the same. But the undertone is what makes them different. They either have the standard yellow undertone or they do not. You were told that the one you were looking at had a faint brown undertone. Just like the color beige is not really beige at all. It's either a yellow beige, a pink beige or a green beige... But it is still standard calling it "beige" eventhough all beiges are not the same and certain beiges go with some colors and not others, and if you put two different beiges next to eachother (even of the same lightness) you'd see they wouldn't match because of their undertone.

 

[WinkHPD]

Hi Wink,

Thanks for your quick reply.

Well, I thought I was fine with a J graded diamond from the pictures I had seen and from the feedback of other J wearers. But what concerns me is if some J’s will have more colour than others. Specifically I was surprised to hear that the one I enquired about had a brown colour – if anything I would have expected only slight yellow.

Are all GIA graded J’s equal? Is it surprising to anyone else to hear that a J had a brown colour?

Regarding the cut, rather than just relying on GIA XXX I am also only looking in the range of 54-57 / 60-62 and angles 34-35 / 40.6-41

Would you still consider this not a guarantee of an ideal cut? Is there another lab which you recommend for being sure of a greatly cut diamond?

Thanks

Jillianfl has given you some nice input on the color questions you asked so I will address only the cut in my answer, other than repeat that you must personally view some J's, preferably with your fiance to know whether or not you and she like them.

As for cutting, and since you are likely to be ordering from a US vendor, I highly recommend the American Gem Society Laboratory (AGSL or AGS as it is normally called here in the States) for the best cut grading system currently available. They have spent millions of dollars in researching light performance in diamonds and have created a cut grade system that is based on that research.

While the AGS 0 cut grade is highly respected, you may still feel more comfortable asking for reflector images such as the ASET and Ideal-Scope so that you can see for yourself that the balance of the numbers that you gave are working for YOUR diamond. The number set that you gave are all well and good, but it is how those numbers fit together that influence the look of the diamond, and even perfect rounded numbers do not necessarily mean that the precision with which the diamond was cut is sufficient to yield the best looking diamond for those numbers.

However, as a self declared non-expert, you can be better trained than many jewelers with a little time spent in educating yourself. You already have a greater understanding of cut than a HUGE majority of chain store jewelry employees. Take pride in that and enjoy the help that you will get here at this wonderful repository of information and helpful consumers who also have gotten wrapped up in the study of this crystallized carbon that we love so much!

Wink

 

[EvangelineG]

I couldn't agree more with Wink's advice to go and look at some J's with your own eyes. Photos on a computer screen, and other PSer's opinions won't give you everything you need to make the decision about whether or not you will be happy with a J or bothered by the tint.

My husband and I are in Canada, and also bought sight unseen, hoping to avoid any costly returns. Before we purchased online, we visited many, many B&M stores to look at diamonds and settings in real life (we initially wanted to purchase locally, but the value was just so much greater online). The experience of looking at many, many diamonds with our own eyes was an education that any amount of reading on the computer could not replicate- it is through that experience that I began to understand my own tastes for colour, size and clarity, and to understand the difference that cut really makes.

That being said, I found that video was the next best thing. Good Old Gold has a fantastic educational series on youtube. Here is one on diamond body colour-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YizGfSIisJE

 

[Danwarren87]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions, it really is appreciated.

That’s interesting to hear about how the undertone can be different for the same grades - it sounds like I might have to trade some carat for a higher colour then as I’ll be setting it in platinum and so I want to make sure it looks good no matter what the undertone is.

My girl is all about surprises, so there isn’t the possibility to go out looking together, but I’ll be sure to go out and inspect some myself.

 

[WinkHPD]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions, it really is appreciated.

That’s interesting to hear about how the undertone can be different for the same grades - it sounds like I might have to trade some carat for a higher colour then as I’ll be setting it in platinum and so I want to make sure it looks good no matter what the undertone is.

My girl is all about surprises, so there isn’t the possibility to go out looking together, but I’ll be sure to go out and inspect some myself.

]

If the color is aught but yellow it should be mentioned on the GIA cert under comments.

That having been said, if you do not know that she will just LOVE a J, then you may be correct about trading some size for a higher color. H-I or above should be very safe if the diamond is well cut.

Be sure to be working with a vendor who has an EXCELLENT trade up policy so that you don't get stuck having to trade up to double what you spent for a larger stone down the road.

Just my thoughts,

Wink

 

[Texas Leaguer]

The most common colors in diamond are yellow and brown. (Brown is actually the most common). The GIA scale for the “normal range” is D-Z, broken out into colorless, near colorless, faint, very light and light as indicated on the scale.



J color is in the near colorless range and should look quite white in face up view, especially in an ideal cut. Some people think that brown body color in this range actually appears whiter than yellow of the same color grade. Where you may detect color is from side view. Depending on your choice of setting this could be more or less of an issue.

Hope that helps, and as Wink advised, enjoy the journey!